DADT Out, Gay Spousal Benefits In?

December 04, 2010 | Terry Howell

Ending DADT won’t lead to same-sex benefits – for now.

According to an article by Tom Philpott, the end of the DADT policy will not mean that same-sex partners will automatically gain access to military benefits, since the DoD is bound by the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act. The 1996 law, which defines marriage as “a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife” and defines “spouse” to mean ” a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife,” also bars the Federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages and does not allow  spouse related benefits for gay partners.

However, there are some benefits that gay partners may be eligible for. For example, servicemembers with same-sex partners may be legally eligible for on-base housing. In addition, same-sex partners may be designated as beneficiaries of Servicemembers’ Group Life Insurance and Federal Thrift Savings Plans.

Depending on how the DoD defines the terms “dependent” same-sex partners may also be eligible for base shopping, family support programs, legal assistance, space-available travel and relocation assistance when members move to new assignments.

However, the DADT report advises that the DoD not change current regulations to include benefit access to same-sex partners, “for the time being.”

Read Tom Philpott’s article, Gay Benefit Rules Drafted, to learn more.

Let your elected officials know whether or not you support the repeal of the DADT.

Comments

  1. milspouse says:

    Heterosexuals aren't eligible for base housing, or other benefits on base if they have a girlfriend or boyfriend–hey be my girlfriend and we can get base housing–doesn't happen! So who would be discriminated against then? If this is repealed do you think that they would stop at that–NO!! They would fight the Defense of Marriage Act with a vengeance and the definition of dependent! DON'T REPEAL!!!!!!!!!

    • Oh please…..grow up milspouse…

      • Grow up?? In what regard? I think milspouse is dead on. In fact,

        that is the stated strategy, isn’t it? Get your foot in the door then

        overwhelm the system. It is the systematic approach to changing/destroying

        an institution that has been employed for decades.

        • disappointed says:

          grow up is right!! DADT should be repealed and should have been long ago….i'm not concerned with the dep. factor as that will probably never be an issue. BUT!!!!, DADT is ridiculous and is VERY DISCRIMINATORY!! if you don't see that then you need to crawl out of your world and into the 21st century. No one should be discriminated against…..especially those that want to serve their country. Do you know how many gays/lesbians are serving beside heterosexuals??!! Wow, despite all of it that I see everyday….ignorance still surprises me!!

        • Rhino 60 your anger is apparent but uncalled for.
          Benefits should only be eligible for "married" as we only asked for EQUALITY. If you or your spouse receive benefits then why should I be singled out as to not be eligible for benefits as well?..do You really believe it is fair to treat anyone as second class?…EQUALITY is EQUALITY! Have a blessed day.

      • I agree, grow up.

    • yea if your spouse has an id card then they have access to almost everything you have so why is it that because of who someone choosees to love they cant have the same benefits. Come on the rest of the world is with it hurry up military you are sooo behind. its not who you love but how you perform your job!! and thats IT.

    • ArmyRebel05 says:

      Milspouse,

      If you want on base housing, then make that boyfriend/girlfriend your husband/wife. Same should apply with homosexuals – get married / civil union and that makes it "official".

    • wow ….. Some of you are forgetting a major point. Since in a most states do not allow "marrage" they do issue domestic parntership, which allow a same sex couples some of the same benefits of married. This is a legal contract and to break have to go through divorce court. It not just that its their boyfriend or girlfriend.

    • to be fair to all….If the gov approves same sex marriage in all 50 states across the board then people can discuss their rights as dependents…otherwise it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion….i have other opinions but i think that simplifies everything

      • Totally disagree! There is an "agenda" here and eventually it ends up at marriage. What is being proposed is SITUATIONAL ETHICS and there is no end to that slippery road…

    • What would one say to someone who is retired? My case is NOT about Gay, Lesbian, or Same Sex partners, never the less has created some problems. I am a Transgender female (was a male). My sex was changed in my records and have a legally MARRIED spouse (husband/male). DoD will NOT issue them an ID card or cover them under Tricare. We are legally married and the BCMR considers my husband a DEPENDENT and issued an order saying so. However we seem to be caught in this battle, even though being Transgender has nothing to do with being gay. Our relationship is heterosexual and still no justice.

      I agree that the definition of a dependent is important and that it should not cover or include girlfriends, boyfriends or same sex partners.

      I will not comment on whether if Same Sex Marriages are recognized and dependency is accepted. We are NOT there yet.

    • milspouse: why the hell would any gay couple want to live in base housing, surrounded by the charming and wonderful military wives that infest it? I've known several really wonderful military wives, but they were a minority. It would be such a shame to rob heterosexual couples of base housing. Clearly the dependents will be the victims of repeal. My heart goes out to you. I hope you are familiar with sarcasm.

    • I agree!

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      THE GOVERNMENT IS TURNING OUR MILITARY, OUR HEROS INTO VICTIMS. STOP IT, FOR GOD'S SAKES. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR MILITARY AND THEIR FAMILIES, AND WE CIVIES NEED TO MAKE NOISE AND SAY DO NOT VICTIMIZE OUR HEROS. THEIR JOB IS TOUGH ENOUGH. GIVE THEM THE SERVICES THEY DESERVE; THEN, THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE GIVEN THE SAME, NO MATTER WHO THEIR FAMILY CONSIST OF. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO JUDGE. IT IS OUR PLACE TO SUPPORT.

      • La_Maripoza says:

        Unfortunately the military has not cared for the troops het or otherwise – most lower enlisted/married qualify for good stamps.

        • MIKE MARINI says:

          You are absolutely correcct., La_Maripoza. My nephew served in Iraq, Army, searching and sweep and dismantling IED's. He was injured and his arm was ripped open. The military stitched him up and left him in Iraq with an unusable arm until it got gravely infected. He has had four surgeries on it and requires two more.
          I have heard other stories from families of similar instances where their/our soldiers etc. have either lost limb or life. UNCALLED FOR. OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES MILITARY ARE NOT, I REPEAT, NOT, EXPENDABLE. And I have had known of people who are Vets of this war alone that are now homeless. The government/legislature has passed laws for our Vets; yet written into the Law the government (VA, etc) are not allowed to tell vets this. If they find it on their own, good. This includes in home health care and a variety of services where specific funds are targeted

    • Good point. The term "Paralysis from Over-Analysis" holds true; America, the land of the free until someone gets offended. Regradless of each person's view, people (right or wrong) are going to be expected to follow the plan. DODT Plan = people expected to follow the plan and exercise rights; if the plan changes, for better or worse = people expected to follow the new plan and exercise rights. The plan is the root, I hope it doesn't open a door to detrimental subjective interpretation. When does it stop?Soon, someone will want their pets listed as dependants. This is the Military, what is done off base/post ( not illegal) should stay there–Keep the focus on the greater good of National Defense.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Girl friend/boyfriend not the same as dependant.-And yes its just a matter of time the DMA is amended.

    • "MILSPOUSE" this is sad to hear. Do you really think there is a difference between a gay Soldier and a straight one? Wake up, this DADT is BS and GOTTA GO!!

    • trusailor says:

      I am going to say it like this… First of all half of the ppl married to heterosexuals in the military are just married while they are there and as soon as they deploy you are fucking either the neighbor, bestfriend and etc. If Heterosexuals can make mistakes and who are you to limit homosexuals of the same rights? I mean really grow the f**k up. And remember this the military has more gays then most would like to admit and its ppl like you who keep them in the closet…

  2. sexual preference should have nothing to do with benefits. My opinion, this is trouble, and certainly should not be top of GOV agenda. Your right, boyfriends, girlfriends get no privileges….Interesting to see what else they want. This is terrible for militray children…..

    • VoixVelour says:

      Dear editors: Tell you what? Please set forth your "limits" for posts IN ADVANCE. They seemed designed to constrain cmmentary and when NOTICE is only given after one composes and posts, it does raised questions.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      THE GOVERNMENT IS TURNING OUR MILITARY, OUR HEROS INTO VICTIMS. STOP IT, FOR GOD'S SAKES. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR MILITARY AND THEIR FAMILIES, AND WE CIVIES NEED TO MAKE NOISE AND SAY DO NOT VICTIMIZE OUR HEROS. THEIR JOB IS TOUGH ENOUGH. GIVE THEM THE SERVICES THEY DESERVE; THEN, THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE GIVEN THE SAME, NO MATTER WHO THEIR FAMILY CONSIST OF. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO JUDGE. IT IS OUR PLACE TO SUPPORT

      • diappointed says:

        Finally, a sane comment. I'm so tired of reading all of these disheartening comments. Why do people HATE so much….they keep preaching about God and the Bible, but continue hate. Sad.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Gay is not a "sexual preference," this has been established.
      Your opinion being biases is flawed.
      What do "they" want? Equal treatment.
      Terrible or military children? you have no idea.

    • How about they just take away BAH and you bastards spend ur base pay to pay for housing!!!

    • Michael Marini says:

      Mike, Thank you for serving in the Armed Froces. You are what is truly a hero. YOUR job is tough enough, and once Our Military Men and Woman have served they are forgotten. By our government. But us Civilians. The issue of DADT was a start for Gays in the Military. As one friend of mine told me, "I don't care if they are gay as long as they can shoot straight." FIRST, so many of our Military DO NOT get the proper services in the service or as a Vet. AS an Uncle of a Soldier who was injured in Iraq, I know first hand. IT IS UP TO US CIVILIANS TO CONTACT CONGRESS, NEWSPAPER, CHURCHES and LET THEM KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING. When our Military get the services, then their families will, no matter whom family consist of.

    • How does this affect military children????

      • Hmmm i been serving in the Army for over 20 years and i have never ever seen military children so im sure they will be no children affected by this. Stop being so hateful

    • renright46 says:

      DADT is a stupid policy anyway but that does not mean i want to hear about all your sexual exploits no matter what floats your boat. If you want to flant your sexuality then get a talk show folks That applies to both sides.

    • agreed

    • might as well let the people who like to be with animals get benefits too, and do what they want to because it is just as natural as same sex partners

      • Serving in Silence says:

        Tired……

        Are you kidding me? You are what is wrong with society – about as ignorant as they get. Get educated on the subject before making a statement that shows how smart you really aren't. Think about it.

        • Active Duty says:

          It actually isn't that rediculous of a statement. Perhaps strongly (and sarcastically) stated, but it brings up an interesting precedent.

          What happens when the tree huggers win the "animals are people, too" argument? Will the military follow suit and allow me to claim dependency status for my 2 dogs? They require housing, and feeding, and medical care just like children do. Why not? Where does the slippery slope end?

          And the educated argument– by the way– is that a desire for two creatures (of any species) who are not physiologically capable of reproducing to participate in a reproductive activity is unnatural.

          Unnatural (absent any religious innuendo at all) means outside the natural order. If a species can't reproduce, it ceases to exist. Is it so hard to understand why so many people have such a problem accepting homosexuality as a 'natural' condition?

          It is an unwinnable argument either way– made moreso by the fact that neither side is willing to concede anything. The debate decomposes into nasty name-calling before it even gets started. Being able to discuss it with civility needs to be the first step in finding any resolution.

          • Joshua Price says:

            Well then, I will speak with civility when I point out that your definition of normal puts those who are sterile or on birth control outside of the "natural order." Also, there are loads of cases of homosexuality in animals.

            I also must take issue with your comparing dependency for a gay man with dependency for a dog. Is that really what you think will happen if we give all people equal rights? That dogs will get their own apartments? Or do you think that homosexuals are almost dogs anyway?

          • Exactly. You said it right on that last sentence.

      • I wish we could take people like you, put you all on a ship out in the ocean, and sink it. What does being gay have to do with animals?
        Being gay is genetic not a choice. Do you wake up in the morning and decide you aren't going to suck a d*ck? I don't think so; you were born straight.
        Why don't you get some facts, and a life.

    • Gay and lesbians soldiers defend this country just as straight soldiers do and their life partners should get all the same benefits as straight couples do….A boyfriend or girlfriend is not the same thing as a life partner….Boyfriends and girlfriends should get " married " to the service member if they want thebenefits…at least they have the right…The GOV isn't trying to interfer with their rights and liberties!!!! How is this terrible for military children ??? There are a lot of military children raised by gay and lesbian couples that are doing just fine!!! And just so you'll know I'm sure gay and lesbians in the military just want the same thing that straight servicemembers already have been getting for years …EQUALITY that is long over due !!!!

    • Mike,
      You are so right. The goverment is changing the rules for employment by allowing gays into the military. It's a job and if you want the job you must meet the qualifications! So all the people that got kick out for overweight, pt test,time i service and whatever else that was a qualification for the job qualifications should be entilted for compensation and law suits bottom line. If i was one who got kicked out for not meeting the qualifications i would be all in for a lawsuit and the government don't hae a legal leg to stand on.

      • Joshua Price says:

        "Gays" were always allowed into the military. DADT does not prohibit homosexuals, it only prohibits them from being open. Also, DADT has not been around forever, we won several wars without it. There is no evidence that the growth in the strength of out military is connected to DADT.

    • To bad Mike vet must be as ignorant on this subject as his spelling!

    • You choose to have a girl friend or boy friend …….get married and u cant get into base housing ……..stop trying to make a big deal out of nothing

  3. really dont care says:

    once the marriage of gay members are recognized…. let em in

    • MichaelBUSCG says:

      Let's hope that day never comes..

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      thanks for showing what matters; first and foremost our military men and women who are not being taken care of NOW. Not active nor as vets. If they aren't, we cannot expect their families to be taken care of, straight or gay. It is UP to US Civvies to MAKE NOISE, CONTACT OUR CONGRESS AND DEMAND THAT OUR HEROS BE TREATED AS SUCH. NO VET OR ACTIVE DUTY SHOULD BE IN NEED. NONE SHOULD BE IN CRISIS. IF WE SAY YOU ARE HEROS, AND YOU ARE, THEN WE NEED TO DO THE LEG WORK TO HELP OUT. MIKE MARINI enginehouse2417@yahoo.com

    • Checkthedata says:

      Data from other nations show that once the ability to marry is given very few gay males choose to marry. Of those that do marry it comes with astricks. They often allow deviation outside the marriage. They continue with having numerous sexual partners. Not my opinion but the facts.

      • Serving in Silence says:

        Numerous sexual partners? You mean like a lot of other married guys do, which has lead to more than a 50% divorce rate in the US….sounds about right to me.

    • That is want is wrong. You don't care. Are you a service member or just one of the sorry america's we have in this country that cares nothing about anything as long as they get theirs.

  4. I agree, this should not be allowed, its hard enough now trying to get base housing, we sure the hell do not need "married" gays trying to get housing too

    • OMG – you are SO right! Perhaps if we limited on base housing to only white, Protestant families with a decent credit score – I might have a better chance at housing too!

      Lets just banish rights for everyone except for the niche you fit in – just so you won't have such a difficult time having to rent off-base…

      Your level of ignorance actually hurts to read it.

      • Joshua Price says:

        No, we should restrict housing to white people with glasses who are less than 5'8" tall. That would fix it. Oh, and their name has to start with the letter "j".

      • undressedemperor says:

        Actually, we already are limiting much of base housing to members with a decent credit score. Housing is being "privatized" and the property management companies (e.g., Pinnacle) typically run a credit check as part of the approval process.

        • BS… that makes absolutely NO SENSE… It is not happening, and you are LYING! You never see that money, it gets paid to the company by DFAS and you never see it, so why in the world would credit matter..

          Stop spreading lies

    • It is in no way about getting "more benefits" or more rights. it is about getting equal rights and benefits. Just a few short decades ago interatial couples couldnt get married and blacks couldnt serve beside whites. The people agains gays receiving equal rights are just like the racist back then. You are putting yourself on the wrong side of history and morality.

      • undressedemperor says:

        Do some research before spouting "yourstory" and "yourality." Exactly how many "short" decades ago were "interracial" couples denied marriage, and when did the military desegregate?
        Gay couplings already have equal rights, including the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, to not talk publicly about their private sexual exploits, and to apply for base housing, either as a single, or–in the event they've managed to adopt a child–single with dependents.

    • La_maripoza says:

      I'm sure you would want it ; its only fair.

    • Could it be that single soldiers living in barracks might feel discriminated against? Sexual preference and marital status are both potential discrimination issues. Should not then single soldiers also be allowed to apply for family housing? I believe the politicians have not thought through on everything (as usual).

    • Hey Chastity, We need smart people in the service. Please pack your bags and make room for those how believe in the constitution for all Americans. May we withhold your benefits for conduct unbecoming an American? Discrimination is wrong. Hint! It's one of the reasons we have a military. TO ENSURE FREEDOMS.

      • undressedemperor says:

        No, discrimination isn't necessarily wrong. Certain classes are currently "protected" against overdiscrimination, but same-sex preference is not yet one of those classes, and there is no "Freedom of Flamboyancy" in the (big "C") Constitution.

        • Let's Remedy that while we're at it. It's time for an Equal rights amendment for LGBT people. Thanks for bringing it up!

    • I totally agree no need having to fight with homos for on base housing when good decent married couples have to struggle to get it.

      • US VETERAN says:

        Your ignorant in thinking anyone outside your so called perfect world isnt a decent married couple just based off their sexual preference! Everyone is equal its 2010 wake up!!!

      • Your just plain ignorant !!! For your information there are good decent same sex couples out there who deserve the same rights as straight couples…

    • What a self centered person you are !!!!! Good Luck with housing !!! NOT !!!!

    • u have a sick way of thinking. it shouldnt matter what your sexual preference is, everyone deserves benefits. u just better pray that one day your child dont come home gay then you will see how it feels to be on the outside looking in. u have no right to judge because at the end of the day you have skeletons in your closet also. stop being closed minded.

    • Yes, it is hard because a bnch of you breeders take all the housing.
      In all terms a lot of straight coples in the military, that live in housing will not make it outside of the military. Breeders are the most waist of money. They join just to live off the tax payers money it is just a big WELFARE institution.

    • That is too bad that you do not think that a gay couple and their kids do not receive the same rights as you. They are putting their lives on the line the same as you. Do you feel the same about people that are not the same color or sex as you. I believe every one should have equal rights.

    • this is the most ignorant comment on the board… if they are "married" or married.. they are still fighting for our country day in and day out.. which means they should be eligible for EVERYTHING that non-gay service members are eligible for… and it is NOT a preference, it is an orientation. it is not a choice to be gay.

    • Novacbub63 says:

      Don't be such a homo hater..this same thing has occured for women, blacks, asians, latins and the list goes on and on..those who object usually have something to hide from..we are all gods children and if our elected leaders would start acting like adults and not children maybe we could get this country back on track..not a sermon..just a thought

  5. The repeal of Don't ask, Don't tell is about ensuring homosexual marriage is federal law, at the exclusion of heterosexuals who do not marry.

    How about the transsexuals? How will they be addressed?

    NO to repeal, YES to telling the states to pass civil unions so the states can regulate ALL relationships, there will no longer be "friends" they will be partners!

    All kidding aside, why should homosexuals be allowed to have more benefits and consideration than anyone else?
    How many lawsuits will be filed for excluding "partners' and lifestyle choices?

    • It has never been about openly serving, it has always been about the advancement of a broader agenda. A classic example of the "pendulum of equity swinging to far the other way". The gay agenda is all about being a protected class with more rights than anyone else.

      • If we allow same sex marriage let's allow those who are into beastiality…eh? Why not allow pediphiles and every other sexually perverted deviate in existence to openly flaunt their sick BS and pay them for it?…What a country we are becoming!!!! I think we should repeal dont ask/dont tell just so we can give the preference by putting them on the front lines in the heat of battle.

        • scott poirier says:

          I agree until same sex marriage is recognized by law they should not have more rights than non married heterosexuals

          • THEY WILL NOT HAVE MORE RIGHTS YOU ARE JUST TALKING SMACK ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A HUGE FREAKING HOMOPHOBE!

        • If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure we already have gays and lesbians on the front lines…..And for you to think that same sex marriage is in the same category as beastiality, pedophiles and other sexual perverts makes you sound really ignorant. Get with the times, I bet you have a neighbor or a coworker who is gay and you don't even know it.

          • Exactly, I don't know about it! AND don't want to! That's the point…I don't ask and I sure don't want you to tell!

          • Plenty of homosexual folks in the military. And some of your friends. Folks in your church. And even some of your family members. Guaranteed. My father-in-law is bisexual and served for years. I have an gay uncle as well. Etc. etc.

            I served 9 years. Combat units. Knew of two guys in our unit who were gay and proudly served and were great soldiers. How did I know? Because they knew I was not a bigot and needed to talk to *someone* in leadership about themselves. Neither even knew about the other.

            You're right that folks should not be given preferential treatment (like homosexuals are ever going to truly get preferential treatment any time soon). I'd wait until gay marriage is honored. Or maybe simply honor civil unions.

            I understand the sentiment though. Homosexual men and women don't have a marriage option. So what to do? My wife and I, once I left the military, enjoyed partner benefits at my employer. We just had to proved she lived in the same household as me for a year. Maybe that is a good compromise. Dunno.

          • No they are the same in the eyes of good just line up to go to hell now if they’re not going to change just like Sodom and Gomorrah where god rained down fire and brimstone to destroy the scourge of the earth murderers thieves homos and all the other degenerates

          • Well, if we look at it from the viewpoint of the person who is a pedophile, polygamist, etc. – yes they are in the same category. They want their "group" to be included on the "officially recognized and accepted" list – just like the homosexuals. They also believe they "can't help it, they're just born that way" – just like the homosexuals. They would ask you why you are such a "bigot" for talking so badly about them – just like the homosexuals. They might even label you a "-phobic" for not supporting their lifestyle – just like many homosexuals.

        • If you want to know where the country is going, flush the toilet.

      • And the end is getting closer, God knows what is happening and he will have his say, go ahead and give them all the rights they want, when the end rocks their world maybe they will have taken the time to get right with God in the world and not try to over throw all the morals and values this nation was founded on. If you want to be homesexual, great your choice same with hetrosexual, reality is that there is a UCMJ that states there is to be no sexual activity while on duty so who cares what their preference is? Restore the laws previous to DADT and stand the ground of the principles our country was found upon. Thank you

        • Joshua Price says:

          "No gays" is not one of the principals our country was founded on. "No persecution just because we are different" WAS one of those principals. What are you going to do if god has his say, and says that you aren't supposed to be a bigot and judge people? "Let he who is without sin…"

          • Can you please give your definition of "judging"? Because the Bible is clear that believers are to "judge" certain things, yet they are not to be "judgemental". I don't have to "judge" the act of homosexuality God has already done that and the Bible is pretty clear about it. Yes, homosexuality is offensive to God, BUT- so are MANY other things of which EVERY ONE OF US is guilty (Lying, Stealing, Lust, Greed, Taking God's name in vain, etc.). Therefore, while it is not "judgemental" for me to point out that Homosexuality is offensive to God, it WOULD be "judgemental" for me to treat you (or love you) any less than myself – for I too am guilty of offending God (in areas that may be the same or different than yours). So homosexuals are no better and no worse than I am when it comes to "sin", and to treat them any differently would be "judgemental" (or worse – "unloving").

          • Joshua Price says:

            While I may not agree with you perfectly (homosexuals are not the same as pedophiles), I have to respect your attitude. I think that if all people (or at least more people) had your attitude the world as a whole would be a better place. It is so refreshing to hear someone who understands the value of humility. +1

          • I wasn't trying to intimate that their actions or lifestyles were the same, only that they wanted the same kind of "recognition and acceptance" by society, and that they likely feel just as "judged" and/or "discriminated against" when they are treated as outcasts. I do not condone their behaivior, I'm just pointing out that it's extrememly likely that any group that's not "accepted" has similar thoughts and feelings.

        • Why does man today PRESUME to BE God…only God may judge, in this life or the other. Today may oversteps what he can do when it comes to KNOWING what God is doing, and thinking about anyone other than them selves. If everyone delt with their own actions rataher than trying to changing others to match tbeir own, then it would be heaven on earth, and this discussion would be unnecessary..
          Judge NOT lest ye yourself be judged….it was not SAID by God, but Passed to us through his HUMAN prophets and teachers, and only God is infallible and perfect….

      • uh i dont think so the homosexual citizens of the united states want EQUALITY! they want nothing more than to be recognised as regular citisens. and the thing with the dadt they want to not feel as though they are not wanted no mater who wants them in or not. I FEEL AS THOUGH IF YOU CAN NOT RESPECT YOUR BATTLE BUDDIES EVEN IF THEY ARE GAY YOU SHOULD NOT BE SERVING AT ALL!!!

      • That thinking must rate with not alowing Blacks equality because of their AGENDA, to destroy THE RACE and inter marry with your children…same mind set..

    • La_Maripoza says:

      How do you figure homosexuals have more benefits of consideration? – equal treatment is all that is asked.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      first and foremost our military men and women who are not being taken care of NOW. Not active nor as vets. If they aren’t, we cannot expect their families to be taken care of, straight or gay. It is UP to US Civvies to MAKE NOISE, CONTACT OUR CONGRESS AND DEMAND THAT OUR HEROS BE TREATED AS SUCH. NO VET OR ACTIVE DUTY SHOULD BE IN NEED. NONE SHOULD BE IN CRISIS. IF WE SAY YOU ARE HEROS, AND YOU ARE, THEN WE NEED TO DO THE LEG WORK TO HELP OUT.

    • how will homosexuals have more benefits than heterosexuals? Last I knew homosexuals were trying to get the same rights and benefits.

      If there will be no Don't Ask Don't Tell policy then there should be no regulations on same sex marriage.

      And if each state has their own regulation on marriage then you could get married in california as a heterosexual couple and then have to move to another state and it would not be recognized. You would have to get 50 marriages if even every state will accept the marriage.

  6. Try as they may, our elected officials "of now" do not and will not control the internal mechanism of our Military Forces. They may tell us where to fight but not how to fight!!! I have all the faith and support to/for our brothers and sisters presently standing the watch~

    no issue… not news!

    • oh… and… DADT was a dead horse moments after it was written! If you want your sexual agenda to be recognized by an organization… you better stick with the Media… the Miltary's "no solicitors" sign is clearly on the door!

      • Joshua Price says:

        "Sexual agenda?" Huh? Is someone campaigning for you to be gay?

        • undressedemperor says:

          Yes. I've been approached several times. Maybe if you switch to contacts and work out a little… and be open to catching as well as pitching… you'd have more luck with the manos, too.

          • Joshua Price says:

            Ha! That's hilarious. I still think this issue is about fear: Gay fear of punishment for their identity, and straight fear that they will be "forced" to be gay just because someone else is allowed to.

            But your comment made my day. You should be a comedian.
            BTW, I am married, and have two daughters. I served in Iraq with 1st BAT fifth MAR, and my oldest daughter was born while I was in Okinawa.

            I'm just not afraid of gay people getting benefits. We all move forward together, or not at all.

          • undressedemperor says:

            BTW, I don't care. I didn't ask, so please don't tell. See how that works? Iron Soldiers.

          • Active Duty says:

            It isn't so much gay 'fear'. It is (for lack of a better word) fear of being solicited.

            Unwanted solicitation is INCREDIBLY prevalent– I would guess moreso for females than males just based on the amount of it I have been the victim of– even with DADT.

            I'm sure there are loyal, conservative, private homosexuals out there, but the ones I have had the displeasure of coming across have been nastily aggressive and just shy of physically violent upon being 'rejected'.

            It is possible I was just unlucky, but I would be lying to say that those experiences didn't taint my view of the DADT argument as well as my opinion of the homosexual community at large. My apologies to those homosexuals whom the 'shoe doesn't fit', but I'm sure you understand the concept of a collective identity and feel as disgusted as I do against those that give you a bad reputation.

          • and you've never had unwanted solicitations from male (assuming you're female) soldiers or males in general? you've never had to deal with super-macho manly men becoming "nastily aggressive and just shy of physically violent upon being 'rejected'"?

    • If they with the present elected officials (Obama-Muslim) have already repealed the DADT rule then they are already in for trouble in the service. Think about it the present official cleared the way and let a mosk be built where the Muslim fanatics took down the Twin towers and then steps out when asked to stop it and he says :Politics will not get involved. I think the Military service is in for trouble. When I was in I assisted in putting out some guys that crossed dressed with makeup and such after hours.

  7. SGM Guzman says:

    There goes another way to get their agenda push through. The liberals in our government making decisions for the majority. I served with many gays, but never in my life, thought that a president could have opened a can of worm of such magnitud and consequences . Repeal DADT, but keeps things as it was before President Clinton. Allow them to serve; I am sure gays can do the job. Please do not allow more degradation of our social norms. Yes to civil unions.

    • I agree, gays are people too. Some of the most kind hearted and considerate people are gay, no one tells straight people who to love thats why we live in the good ole USA freedom of….

      • Since when are we now described as "gays".? If that just isnt a BAD statement. Do people go around talking about or describing interracial couples as interacial? NO or heterosexual couples as Hetero's? NO stop with the "Gays" comments i though we would have evolved much beter then that esp with you beign a SGM and all. A marriage is a marriage who constitues the qualifications of a marriage and please dont say GOD or the Bible with the military haveing so many religions now. UGH!!

      • How stupid & deceived can you be????? We're not addressing character here. We're addressing a lifestyle that will impact on your children & grandchildren & future generations. Wake up! I'm sure there are terriost that are kind-hearted and considerate, too. But they're fighting for what they believe in. Should we just leave them alone????

        • Ok, so you’re comparing homosexuals to terrorists? Thats one of the most dramatic statements I’ve seen on here thus far. And completely unnecessary. Do you see homosexuals going out and “recruiting” young people? I know better. The reason there seem to be more homosexuals out there now is because our nation as a whole, and our government is being more open. Do you. guys remember hearing about women fighting for their rights? Everyone thought they were crazy. It took a while but it happened. Just because they believed men were superior we werent going to turn into men. Any more than black people can turn white or gays can turn straight. It doesn’t happen. And also, with so many “religions” being recognized in our military (i guy we know wears Thor’s hammer as his religious symbol on his dogtags) which can change. We have no right to right to take away freedom from those who can’t “change” and are doing no REAL damage. And if they’re willing to stand up for our country, we need to stand up for them!

    • Damn, SGM…You're talking out of both sides of your mouth! On one hand you say they are trying to push their agenda through and at the same time you say, Repeal DADT (Which is their agenda). However, I do agree that we have opened up a can of worms & placed a high priority on it. However, living a Gay lifestyle will always smell like worms.

    • Great insight and words!

  8. RJ Harris,USN-Ret. says:

    Mike vet, surely you don't believe that gays would harm our dependents. The vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by heterosexuals, and generally by a relative! Your unfounded assumptions are clearly from ignorance and propaganda. As I see it, gays are not looking for special rights, just equal rights, which should be afforded them because of our constitution. I've had the foresight of living through the civil rights struggle, as well as Women equality and these same thesis were used in an attempt to keep rights away from them. It was said that black men would run rampage on white women. That women couldn't and should not be placed in position of leadership . Military women were lower than freshman male recruit. In my opinion, Milspouse, the Defense of Marriage Act should be fought against. It allowed a few, to govern and rationalize the lives of others using puritanical concepts and prejudices.
    In conclusion, if one people are restricted, we all as a nation are restricted. Intelligent debate is welcomed. Over 23 years careerist.

    • RJ Harris: Are you GAY? If you are, then you ought to declare that. I am black – whether or not I declare it or not, one would look at me and judge me based on their pre-conceived prejudices… Gays don't have this problem and that is the reason why I resent this Gay activism trying to equate itself with the Civil Right Movement of the 50's and 60's. I have family and friends who are Gay and I don’t change my stance because of them. Serve in the military by adhering to the code of your branch of service, as well as by following the rules and regulations that govern us (UCMJ). This seems too easy. But when I talk very candidly about military service with Gays, most seem more interested in what goes on in the showers over anything else. This is from my own empirical research on the subject dating back more than seven years.

      • Great response…..The Gay issues and Civili Rights issues are in two different ballparks. I hate when people equate the two.

    • I do not believe that sexual orientation should be used as a benchmark for changing our laws and policies in the military or anywhere else. Having raised a gay son and seeing him die at a very early age and now having a gay stepdaughter (43 years of age) I am more open in my views than 40 years ago. However,what happens behind the bedroom door is no one elses business and I do not want it being displayed for the world to see. In the Navy I served in there probably some gay sailors but it was not public knowledge. It should stay that way.

      • Joshua Price says:

        Be careful, your logic can be applied to straight people as well as gay. Maybe we should require that straight people keep their "lifestyle choice" a secret, and their spouses and loved ones should not be allowed to meet straight service members after deployment. If a law applies to some people, it applies to all. That is one of the principals this country was founded on. No matter how you spin it, homosexuals are still being discriminated against.

        • Active Duty says:

          Here is the problem with your argument–
          Homosexuality is a CHOICE. As many expert say so as don't, and you can't write anti-discrimination laws based on a VOLUNTARY lifestyle.
          (Acknowledging that religion is a choice as well, but that is special and best left out of this discussion)
          It is like– if I decided that I had to wear a purple hat then expected the military to change the uniform regulations to allow purple hats.
          To say nothing of every 7/11 'discriminating' against me because they require removing hats upon entering.

          And the 'meeting on the pier after deployment' issue is flawed as well. I have met a lot of my female friends (I am female, by the way) on the pier after deployment– and yes, given them a hug, and yes BOTH of us were in uniform, and no one had an apparent problem with it. I hugged my mother and my sister when I came back from deployment. No one is walking around with a clipboard taking notes on who is hugging whom.

          • Grad Student says:

            I don't know what experts you have been listening to but homosexuality is not a choice. I'm not gay, but been doing my graduate thesis on this and most experts believe there is a genetic cause. Yes some people may say "I choose to be gay" but those are the ones who think that makes them cool and different.

          • 1)"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors"-American Psychological Association. (2008). Answers to your questions: For a better understanding of sexual orientation and homosexuality. Washington, DC: Author.
            2) In recent years, researchers and the media have proclaimed the “discovery” of genes linked to alcoholism and mental illness as well as to homosexuality. None of the claims…has been confirmed"-Evan S. Balaban, a neurobiologist at the Neurosciences Institute in San Diego
            Sounds like you need to revise your thesis. Experts who pontificate conclusions without burdening themselves with the rigors of science are hardly experts at anything other than propaganda and pseudoscience!

    • Thank you for your intelligent and well thought out perspective

    • Equal rights for all! Remember "it's the responsibility of the majority to protect the rights and freedoms of the minority." To do otherwise leads to oppression of the minority and we are better than that. Well said RJ.

    • You navy guys has been on the ship too long and out to shore. Yes, I do believe gays would harm our dependents and future generations. I do not think racism & women being in leadership is even comparable to the GAY issue. From my personal point of view, fighting against racism and allowing women leadership, was backed by authority of biblical principles, therefore it was blessed. The total opposite is true with homosexuality. In fact, it is stench in the nostrils of God. Now, I know there are those that could care less what the bible says, etc. However, that doesn't make God any less "God" and he is a "holy" God. If he doesn't destroy America because of this awful gay lifestyle, the he will have to apologize to Sodom & Gomorrah.

      • Joshua Price says:

        So I suppose you want to go back to stoning women who are raped? Or forcing them to marry the rapist? The bible is full of cultural views that only made sense in the context of that culture. We have moved forward in our understanding of god since then. We no longer stone women to death at all, not even if they were raped.

        • i think Jesus said "let he who is without sin throw the first stone" qouted from the bible…the truths revealed are the same truths for a modern era. It just so happens that the bible and christianity is the main source western culture is derived from. It seems that blaming the culture the bible was written in undermines the veracity of scripture and invalidates the teachings insofar as it contradicts modern sesibilities. I think, misunderstanding the unchanging nature of God is more to blame than culture. Judaism, Christianity…even Islam, aren't good candidates for a revision based on modern sensibilities, what was preached and taught then, is still applicable today…or so I believe

    • Well said!!!

    • " As I see it, gays are not looking for special rights, just equal rights, which should be afforded them because of our constitution. "
      Well, they have equal rights. They can marry a member of the opposite just like anyone else, and will be afforded every right available.

      "In conclusion, if one people are restricted, we all as a nation are restricted."
      Conversely, if a nation's morals are acceptably diminished, the nation is diminished as well.
      Nature made male and female species for procreation, NOT sexual gratification! And the latter is all that homosexuality can accomplish.

      • Oh that's rich. So heterosexuals only have sex for procreation? Oh yeah, that's right . . . LOL

      • Couldn't agree more. If only more people understood that there is a difference between a man and a women having sex and a homosexual couple.. one is for procreation, the other is for self gratification. Of which that act is as DONR put it, "Stench in the nostrils of GOD."

    • RJ, what one does in the bedroom is not the worlds business. My sexual orientation should not be a public disply or grounds for Civil Right Action. I am serving in the military, and do not want to serve with am openingly gay person. In my opinion (and MY only), it is not nature to see intelligent Humans of the same sex as lovers, even the animals that are in the forest that are off the same sex, do not act as lovers. Than, why should us human who are intelligent behave in such a manner? If a Gay person wants to serve his/her county, let it be done without their sexual preference be know. Off duty hours are yours to do what ever you wnat to do.

    • m richards says:

      technically, they do have 'equal rights'. but not based on their 'lifestyle' but on their race, gender, creed, etc. using sexual preference to demand rights is wrong, regardless of how you feel about gays, straights, etc.

      i don't care if you are gay or not. what i do care about is this constant, 'i'm gay and you have to like it' crap that is constantly being shoved down our throats. when i walk into a room, i do not announce, 'hey everybody, i'm straight', so why do gays have to announce it to the world?

    • So choosing to be gay as a sexual prefence is a civil right? Funny, I never thought of it that way. I guess choosing to like little boys, girls or animals is next? You laugh and say that would never happen? Well, I never thought gays serving open in the military would happen either. Over 35 years and thinking of burning my uniform in D.C.

    • Herbert Johnson says:

      HJohnson, USMC Ret. I dont think gays will harm are dependents or not serve with honor and pride. For me it the belief of the bible that a marriage is between a man and woman. With that being said to give the same rights to same sex couples in the military is wrong. I have no problem with them serving. If we give them the same rights then it should also be givaing to the Man and woman whos has kids together but aren't married. To which this will not get passed and so should it not get passed for same sex couples.

    • DEH USA RET says:

      you need to read the constitution it was based on the book of Deuteronomy One Nation Under God that type of life style is an abomination to God and should not be condone. It is a chosen life style that will effect our children if a child is raised with a man/man or woman/woman then that child will preceive it to be a normal life style there by living in the same matter it shold not be accepted PERIOD

      • Joshua Price says:

        Know what else comes from the book of Deuteronomy? This quote:

        "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)"

        Oh, and the separation of church and state is one of the founding principals of this country.

    • Being a Black, Jew, woman, Catholic, Morman, whatever – is not the same as being immoral. All decent, moral people should enjoy equal rights under the law. Note that criminals do have their rights restricted because they broke a moral law. If homosexuality is OK, how about lying? or stealing? or cheating? or ….

    • Novacbub63 says:

      Right on RJ..the only reason why the gay haters passed this bill is because they are hiding in the closet themselves..press on and fight the fights..

  9. Having openly gay people in the military makes no sense. It makes as much sense as having men and women share the same bathing, sleeping and living areas and expect that military decorum, disicipline and order would not be effected by this social engineering experiment gone BAD!!

    I don't want to take a shower next to someone who is attracted to me sexually, neither do I want to sleep in a room with someone who hormones are raging for someone of the same sex.

    Like I said, this makes no sense, and it is time we stop trying to be so niave and politically correct about it.

    • Just because someone loves another person of the same sex does not mean they are sexually attracted to everyone of the same sex, and with your attitude how could anyone be attracted to you its not whats on the outside the inside counts too.

    • am1960, thats just pure ignorance to the highest!!! just because someone is gay or as you say attracted to the same sex, DOES NOT at all mean that they are attracted to every person of the same sex. so yes, like you said, it really doesnt make any sense to discriminate against anyone! no matter what their, sexual preference is, their skin color is, or what their gender is, one thing that we have in common, no matter what our lifestyle, color, or gender is is that we ALL bleed red and foremost we are ALL CHILDREN OF GOD!!! GOD IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN JUDGE…in the Bible it says he with NO sins cast the first stone…so im sure that no one in this WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD should be casting any stones……

      • James F. Poe says:

        And what do you know about God, and from where did you learn it? It is evident that you are completely ignorant of the power of God and the Scriptures.

      • God Also declares our bodies are his temple and we are treat them as such, homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is a choice and yes it is before others try to say it isn't. It is natural to have curiosity of the same sex, but then it becomes a choice to act upon the temptation.

        Leviticus 18:22
        You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

        • All sins are equal. Romans 3:23-24
          23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
          NIV
          You are not GOD, and only GOD has the right to judge. Are you without sin?

          • Active Duty says:

            Actually, all sins are not equal. There are mortal sins and venial sins. Mortal sins require that a person knowingly and in full freedom seriously violates a Commandment of God. A venial sin is less offensive to God.

            The common understanding is that God's Commandments as it pertains to the severity of sins are The Ten Commandments– none of which specifically address the issue of homosexuality. Whether it 'counts' to make it a mortal sin is not for me to say. I would imagine the 'knowingly' and 'free from coersion' aspects bear more weight than whatever 'act' is performed.

        • our body are his temple? then ppl who get peircings and tattoos should go to hell too? oh and guess what…not everyone believes in YOUR god bitch! USA Constitutional right, freedom of religion…gays can be catholic, morman, muslim, christian, wiccan, athiest , buddhism and all the other religions out the ass! so get over it, cuz we exist in society, at the post office, at mcdonadls, the school your children go to, the church you preach at, the ppl that live in your neighborhood, and serve the military. before you judge someone else, fix your own flaws and shortcomings.

          • Active Duty says:

            Actually– and sorry to burst your bubble– but no major world religion accepts homosexuality.

            they might not all reject it as fervently. I can't speak for others, but I can say there is no such thing as a homosexual Catholic. The catholic Church rejects the practice.

            It doesn't matter if you were born Catholic, raised Catholic, baptized and confirmed, never missed a Mass in your life. If you are homosexual, you are not a Catholic.

            Not that you care, but it is actually offensive to the catholic Church to claim that there could be a homosexual Catholic.

            I'm guessing you only care when gays are offended, and that you care not at all that what you say may be offensive to others. In fact, I would guess you are TRYING to offend people.
            Trying to pick a fight?
            Being the squeaky wheel so you get some attention?

            You won't get what you are looking for from me. You'll get a prayer from me. Your own special prayer that you might see the error of your ways and repent so as to be accepted into God's Grace. Whether you believe in Him or not.

          • Joshua Price says:

            You just contradicted yourself. You said "no major world religion accepts homosexuality" and then "I can't speak for others." Which is it?

            Until you research every single "major" religion, and talk to the religious leaders in each, you are only talking out of your ass.

            Besides, freedom of religion doesn't only apply to the "major" ones, it applies to all. The Seperation of Chirch and State is a founding principal of this country, so it doesn't matter what religion you follow. Your beliefs have nothing to do with what laws are passed.

        • Novacbub63 says:

          so what does the bible say about a women lying with another women..is it an abomination then..if your going to prech to the choir, then make sure you know what your talking about..

    • I am gay and served in the military for 5 years. Going against DADT, I told many people about my sexual orientation. I don't see why so many people are making a big issue out of this. I told people and to be frank they just didn't care. They didn't care who I slept with when I was at home. They just cared about me doing my job. AM 1960, for you to think that every gay person would be attracted to your dumb ass is just ignorant. Just because someone is gay and you are taking a shower with them does not mean they are attracted to you and looking at you like they want to jump you. Also "I don't want to take a shower next to someone who is attracted to me sexually," so your saying that if you were in a room full of hott naked men or women, which ever are your taste, you wouldn't want to jump in the mix with them. I think you would. Ignorant, Ignorant, Ignorant!!!!

    • AM1960: I am right with you on the points that you make. Gays have their agenda to gain legitimacy via the US military putting our national security at risk at the same time. I wonder if gays are going to be compelled to declare their sexuality? If that is the case, then there would be a lesser impact to national security at least.

      • Joshua Price says:

        National Security? You're going to have to explain that one…

        Terrorist #1: "Curses! We will never foil american military! TSA is just too good!"
        Terrorist #2: "haHa! I have just heard that men who listen to Madonna are in the military now!"
        Terrorist #1: "haHa! Now we will implant secret messages in music that only gays will hear! Now we win!"

        You're right! We are at risk…:)

    • AM1960: Then you would be surprised that you have already showerd with a gay man. There are more gays in the armed forces that any of you have a clue on. When I was in just in our barracks alone there were 14. + or – some were so deeply in the closet that only their mothers really knew.
      I am vary surprised that the wives of servicemen were even asked what their opinion was. If they saw a gay person once a week at the PX it would be surprising. Why did the Pentagon ask? If it thought there would be an uproar because they weren't asked they could honestly say it had no (or miniscule) impact. So why ask? I am ythinking the people who came up with the questionaire wanted more opposition so they included them.
      I would loved to have seen (aor at least been there) when the Generals got the news on it.

    • You are an idiot. If you think anyone would be attached to your ignorant ass you are fooling your self. Lets face the facts: No guy is going to join the military, leave his family, risk his life-just to sneak a peak at some guys junk.

      These men join because they care about their country and protecting everyone in it, gay straight or asinine.

      • pre-9/11 Active Duty says:

        Actually– pre 9/11, a lot of people joined for free college and could care less about defending their country. Don't you remember the uproar of called up reservists when the war broke out? I think the famous quote from– I don't remember which news outlet– was "This isn't what I signed up for"

        Bless their hearts for serving, but a lot of people joined for the wrong reasons.

      • Mango1234 says:

        Even in the midst of idocy and ignorance gays would probly say to AM1960 " I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
        Voltaire

    • Seriously? says:

      Don't flatter yourself AM1960. Chances are the guy/girl in the shower next to you, who is a homosexual does not find you attractive in the slightest. It is such ignorance to see a straight person assume that the gay man or lesbian is going to hit on them just because they are a man/woman. Give me a break.

    • EXACTLY!

    • bamaboy65 says:

      It is just one more nail in the coffin of the usa. GOD will judge this country for all if it's sins and that judgement is not looking too good for us if we continue on this sick path we are on. If the homo's and their supporters knew GOD and praticed what the Bible said there would not be any homos. So do not claim to be a child of GOD when you do the devil's work. Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. This is truley a sad day for this country by allowing homo's to serve openly with true soldiers and believers.

      • NotSoPrivate says:

        Adam and Steve? Really? That's the BEST argument you've got? From "Bama" and born in '65? When you were a teenager during the "free love" movement? REALLY?

        Consider what you say, as you were also born in the time when segregation was being battled. Next thing you'll probably say is that we should re-segregate. GOSH!

        Do you believe in polygamy/polyamory, too? Cuz THAT was also just fine in the bible. As well as killing your kid as a sacrifice. Just consider how MESSED UP the bible truly is. You can't pick and choose what parts of the bible to quote and what parts to ignore.

        • Active Duty says:

          I'm curious– do you know anything about the Bible, or just the McNuggets you try to use against those who argue against homosexuality on the grounds of religion?

          That is possibly a new low, and in this argument, that is saying something.

          I'm asking you to please not use a beautiful parable about being obedient to God over oneself in such a blasphemous manner.

      • sstarss44 says:

        That was perfect way to put it into words.. Thankyou, my feelings exactly…

      • Oh here we have a member of the Westboro baptist church!

      • lol bamaboy…u think being gay is something we choose? and yes god will judge but u dont think he'll judge on all the murders and thieves and other sinners out there? the bible doesnt say one sin is strong than another or one sin comes with more consequinces than another, it does say he forgives and loves all his children. it also says you shouldnt judge others that is not ur job to judge people it also says to treat others how you would like to be treated…so dont become a preacher. and the men and women straight or gay serve the country because they believe in what this country can do what it is made of and what it can offer them in the future. if you dont like it, if you dont wanna be here on judgement day then get the hell out by all means bc me being a gay soldier i dont wanna die for you.

        • Active Duty says:

          For the record– God only forgives those of His children who ask for his forgiveness with open and repentant hearts.

          You shouldn't use the sins of others as justification of your own sins.

          Can you live by your own words? Don't judge others, treat others how you would like to be treated…

          And actually, there are sins graver than others. Specifically– violating the Ten Commandments. Using the Word of God out of context to defend an act you know to be offensive to God is a form of blasphemy. Just in case you didn't know that.

    • Don't flatter yourself.

      • My experience is that those who are comfortable in their own sexuality are much less threatened by other's sexuality. Maybe you are latent? Think about it if you have enough brain cells left.

    • sstarss44 says:

      I'm with you on that…I'm sorry but I don't believe in gay marraiges either.. God put man and woman on this earth to unite and bear fruit (children)..And 2 men or 2 women cannot have children together..It is not how God meant for things to be…I don't think God would recognize a same sex marraige or partnership..

      • yes God did put male and female on the earth to procreate true fact but does that mean that every human most procreate. As is the world is quite over popullated what would it hurt for a few people of the same sex to get together and not pop out anymore. Thanks to alot of the gays there are many of foster children that now have happy homes. They were put in foster care because there hetro parents didnt want them. Whats the difference between a same sex couple getting together adn not having kids and a hetro couple gettting together and not planning to have kids. Does that not defeat the perpose of your theory of hetro relation is right for procreation,

    • NotSoPrivate says:

      I think you need to understand that being attracted to someone of the same sex is not the same as being attracted to ALL of the same sex. GEEZ! This is SO FRUSTRATING!

      • you couldnt have said it any better than that notsoprivate, me personally i dont date or even think twice about a straight girl, yeah sure i admire their beauty…but i know plenty of straight girls that do that and compair naked bodies to their own and plenty of straight men who know their sexuallity do it to.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Speaking of naive AM, would you feel safe bending over to pick up the soap in the shower with one of your macho buddies, all wet and lathered?
      Get a grip bubba, we gays are selective – I'm sure I would not give you a second look. on the other hand go you think that J I Joe doesn't check you out?

    • If a gay dude gets to shower with men, let me shower with the women…so we all get to look at some thing we like while showering….thats not prejudice thats just having equal rights.

    • Disgusted says:

      Why bother to give a shit about this stuff anyway am? If you don't like it leave the military. We don't want your kind in it anyway? Ending DADT is the AMERICAN thing to do. Why fight for liberty and justice when you won't even give it to the American in the bunker next to you. Besides, your viewpoint is so awful and narrow who could be attracted to you anyway? Yuch!

    • I was in Vietnam when a person who's "hormones are raging for someone of the same sex" visited me one night and(I was straight off the farm) my inability to sleep after that compromised my effectiveness at a time that I needed to be effective. I do believe that when the door is opened there will be all manner of problems, because, some cannot control themselves. I would like to see a return to our previous practice of asking and rejecting. I form my opinion based on what is best for the military. Many will disagree, but to put political correctness first is a travesty and will adversely effect the military, as political correctness has damaged our country. But Obama needs the votes, so here we are. I could be wrong but time willl tell, providing that the military isn't ordered to cover incidents up.

      • the same thing happens with hetro people. You really think that a straight guy with raging hormones has never broke in on a female and effected her morality and vice versa . Its not just the homos.

      • Lwolf, question..u said u were visited by a homosexual and couldnt preform your duties..what about the straight females who are visited by straight hormone raging males and vise versa…you think they can sleep? maybe if you quit winking at this "raging homosexual" and flirting with him in the first place with those mixed signals of yours he nvr wouldve visted you that dreary veitnam night. and i know plenty of ppl who arent gay but when been deprived of sex for too long they seek it from the same sex.

      • I so agree and have the proof to back you up. Soon to be an ex military wife and we were dual military. Makes me sick now the years and health I wasted on the marriage of lies

      • ALL GAYS SHOULD BE EXILED TO A DESERTED ISLAND SOMEWHERE, THEY WOULD ALL BE HAPPY THEN.

    • How arrogant to think a gay person or every person of the opposite sex would even be attracted to you!! Believe me, with such a narrow, ignorant point of view, you have certainly insulated yourself from any gay advances along with the potential for making new friendships that have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

    • So, don't serve. And by the way, "those" people are already there.

    • What makes you think and just because someone is gay that he/she would find you sexually attractive? Get over yourself.
      I'm assuming you are male and if so, are you sexually attracted to all females? I didn't think so.

      I served 20 years in the miltary and knew of many gay men and women. This was before DADT. How do you not know if the individual showering next to you now is gay or not. The military has now and will always have gay members. They shoould be able to serve withot hiding who they are.

      Trust me, most of you guys in uniform are not worth looking at. Look at yourself in the mirror.

      • Trust me, when I was in uniform I was serious eye candy. A phsique that was a product of hard physical labor and sports. And a face that Elvis would have envied with eyes that melted many a pretty lady. I had more than one lady offer to take care of me. I'm through bragging now and will get to the point. I served in the sixties(Vietnam,1967) and I know for certain that I shared living quarters with a gay man, because he came to see me when I was asleep. That was my last nights sleep for quite awhile. I got to the point of hallucinations. These kinds of things will happen more and more if we open the doors.IMHO

    • I'm afraid it's you who makes no sense. They are already there, and the military needs their services as much as they need the services of heterosexuals. Once their presence is an accepted fact, the issues that concern you can be addressed.

    • AM1960, gays are already in the military and have been since wars began. If you are in a fitness club, go to a public swimming pool, work in a military or civilian work place, go to the supermarket or shopping mall, hang out at a nightclub or bar, then you are living are gays and guess what? Life is still good. You will survive. You won't die, get raped or become gay. I'd bet money your comment is the same comments made when blacks were first allowed to bath, sleep and share living areas with whites. By the way. I spend 22 years in the military I met one gay female and one gay male in that time and although they try to hide it, I knew they were gay, but it did not make one bit of difference. They were both good soldiers who served their country well.

    • Mustang03Ret says:

      AM1960 – You flatter yourself. Moreover, you demonstrate tremendous ignorance.

    • what makes you think that just cause someones gay they want yur ignorant self?

    • the fact that you are so dense as to think that just bc another person of you same gender is gay that they would be attracted to you physically simply implies just how big your head is just bc you are hetero does not mean that you are attracted to every person you cme accross of the opposite sex same if your homo a gay is not attracted to every guy nor a lesbian to every women. I believe that it is ignorant of you to claim that homos as citizens should not have the same right as a hetro citizen simply bc you fear that you are just that attractive. Homos are just as much citizens as hetros and they as citizens should have all the same rights. They are already in are military and they are already fight for all the same rights even though they are not themselves being given the very rights to which they are fighting for.

      Also as for the letting open gays in being like males and females having shared living situations they do have same living situations quite often overseas.

    • It's amazing how vain you are to think that every Gay/homosexual person is attracted to you!!! Ha Ha Ha you little person you.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      The DADT is a much bigger issue. It isn't just a "gay" issue; it effects every service man/woman past/present. First, if we argue about this, who is concentrating on the larger issue (i.e. why aren't are service people getting what they need/deserve?) And if our government wants our service people to "keep quiet" (and we support it), about some issues, why not other issues? (i.e. why are our soldiers not getting adequate medical care or given adequate medical care to the point of loss of limb and loss of life?) No, our military cannot talk about many things; they need a VOICE.. And that voice has to be the civilians, the people of this great nation. If we do not become their voice, if we do not support our military, what kind of people are we?? Hate someone who is gay; I don't care. Hate our military men and woman for any reason, and shame on you. WE ARE THE VOICE OF OUR MILITARY PAST AND PRESENT; THE ISSUE IS ARE THEY GIVEN WHAT THEY NEED AND WHAT CAN I DO TO ASSURE THAT THEY ARE PROVIDED FOR?

    • @AM1960
      "I don't want to take a shower next to someone who is attracted to me sexually, neither do I want to sleep in a room with someone who hormones are raging for someone of the same sex."
      ….just because we're not openly out doesnt mean ur not showering with us or sleeping in the same room with us. and most gay ppl arent attracted to straight ppl (one its called gaydar, two once we find out your straight we're disgusted and dont force ourselves on straight ppl anyway, if you get flirted with quit giving the wrong signals, tell em your straight, drink water and move on!). look at the poles the shits gonna change not if, just when. yeah you'll know whos gay and whos not but for real you are already working or have worked with homosexuals in the military. we do exist in the military. more than you know.

      • @AM1960 Continued:
        i know a girl in my basic training who was a lesbian and she slept in a room with 60 other females and showered with them too. of those 60, about 8 of them were lesbians.of those 60 none of them cared. this same girl woke up over the weekend with her girl friend sleeping beside her, this same girl hates older nasty men always trying to get in her pants and wants to just be able to say "bitch im gay" so they'll get the picture and leave her alone, but she cant. this same girl, all her friends know. and her only friends are her co workers, brother and sisters in arms all fighting for the same thing.

    • aM You must really think our military men and women are weak people. Your statement is scarey in it's ignorance. If you're in a bunker getting shot at, I for one don't give a crap whether the soldier next to me is male, female, transgender, gay or polka dot athiest virgin. I care about whether they are gonna fight beside me to the best of their ability and cover my a#$ if I need help.

      If you have that big a problem with it, the military provides psychiatric help for any soldiers who need it. Contact your commander and ask for the therapy you need to get over your fears. If nothing else works, come out as a homophobe and tell your commander you are crippled by your fears, a detriment to your division and ask for dismissal.

      We need great soldiers, not weakn men like yourself.

    • But I bet if you're a man, you'd sit and watch 2 lesbians have sex or even better, join in. Futhermore, in a time of conflict, if YOU and a "gay" as you call US, were to come face to face with gunfire, killing, etc….I bet you'd let that "gay" save your sorry ass!!!
      People like you make me sick. I have a wonderful wife of over 4 years now and she has shown me more respect and love than ANY man could….
      and OH YEAh, my wife was in the Army…went to Iraq and was shot at so your politically correct ass can have the freedom you have….

      Sorry for you,

      ~J

    • You know what, that is how ignorant people think about gays too. That's like saying if you're not gay every person of the opposite sex wants you. How stupid is that? Most homophobic people are usually the ones who are curious on the low anyway, or else you wouldn't feel so insecure about other people's sexual preference. When you are confident that your sexuality is not threatened, then you are definitely not gay or bothered by anyone else being gay around you.

    • You state: I don't want to take a shower next to someone who is attracted to me sexually, neither do I want to sleep in a room with someone who hormones are raging for someone of the same sex.

      But this is already happening… I look at you all the time… at least now you will know who I am and maybe put a towel on cause half the time your not worth looking at and it kind of makes me sick…..

    • This where you fall off of the cart. You have been miss guided terribly, you see I was a decorated member of the Navy for 20 years, but I just could not disclose who I really was because of ignorance like yours. Gay people don't go around attacking people and you better be careful because there is a tremendous amount of straight men that are on the down low, so instead of watching the gay men you need to watch those straight men.

    • military gay says:

      i doubt they would be attracted to you. gays are just as particular about they are attracted to as hetero sexuals if not more.

    • Mango1234 says:

      THIS ONE took the cake! I echo what Hoggie and Guest wrote, “That's like saying every gay person of your sex wants you. How stupid is that? “ __“Your statement is scary in its ignorance. I care about whether they are gonna fight beside me… and cover my a#$…"__ Any person who puts his/her life on the line for this good country deserves my support and friendship. If you don’t want the gays in your military or for them to have benefits for their families why don’t you petition your federal officials NOT to taxes gays to pay for your military call it GAY DON'T TAX.__A reminder: HOMOPHOBIA is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer… Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, and irrational fear. It is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of a perceived non-heterosexual orientation. Activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated, "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."__

  10. AMEN to what AM 1960 said!

    • La_maripoza says:

      So, DRO, you would bend over to pick up the soap in the shower with say Rambo? We know where you mind is.
      Do you compare caliber and fuselage with the other guys? hmmmm

  11. you are a ignorant person! you make me want to PUKE! I just thank God that you finally retired!

  12. For those of you who are convinced that this is all some big liberal "social engineering" conspiracy, I hope you realize that the repeal was demanded by REPUBLICANS and is supported by two out of three Americans polled. It's also supported by 70% of Soldiers currently serving in our Army and 60% of active duty Marines. And yes, I've served. And yes, my battle buddy was gay. And no, it was never an issue.

    Oh yes, and for those of you who are terrified of showering next to homosexuals, guess what? You already ARE showering next to homosexuals and have been for your entire military career.

    • Prior_Air Force says:

      Well put MIVet… Maybe all of the homophobes don't belong in the military. If they feel that strongly that the guy next to them might make a sexual pass at them, then they are probably a bit unstable to be in the military.

      I spent over nine years in the military, including before and after DADT took effect. I'm not sure how many around me were homosexual, as my concern was doing my job and getting our mission completed, but I never felt that was ever a problem with anyone being in the military.

      After leaving the military I have worked with many openly homosexual individuals, and they are not unlike anyone else when it comes to doing their job. Some are great workers, some are average, and some were unfit to do the job they were hired to do, all being just like the heterosexuals I have worked next to. Although, as a rule, I've found most homophobes to lack education and intelligence, and be poor performers in the workplace.

    • Did you take the skewed test? Did you read the obscure questions? So much for clear cut questions. The following is verbatim from the test I took, "If you knew of a homosexual in your unit, how would it effect your work ethic?"

      Those pro gay have no idea the type of issues that arise in combat scenarios. Quit being so trendy. We have enough trouble with men and women in the military and sexual harassment, do you think homosexuality will make it any easier?

      Guess what, you will lose your best trained soldiers if you repeal this law as well. The more trained we become, the more we realize what needs to happen to allow us to fight.

      • La_maripoza says:

        armycpt, "those pro gay have no idea th e type of issues that arisein compabat scenarios? " Where were you in the military, Disneyland?
        Been there done that.
        If you lose your GLBT troops you are likely to lose your best troops.
        Tell me what you know, not what you think.

        • undressedemperor says:

          Mayposer, I've served over 20 combined years in the Army and USAF, with several combat deployments, and I concur with Armycpt.

          How does leaving Pres Clinton's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy in place mean we will lose our currently serving gay , lesbian, bi-sexual, transgendered, etc. troops?

          Who are these "best troops" of whom you write? PFC Bardley Manning, the biggest U.S. traitor of all time?

          And Why are you dissing Disneyland, the largest employer of Fairies in the U.S.? (The San Francisco legislature is a close second.)

      • I was in Vietnam in '67 when a person in my unit "visited" several of us at night. After he got to me I was unable to sleep and actually suffered hallucinations. Not a good thing in the combat zone. He was eventually caught and I eventually got my head straight(I was straight off the farm and had no idea how to process it.) but my combat effectiveness was seriously compromised. Dealing with the thought that I let my brothers down was the hardest part.
        I am cetainly glad I was able to serve before political correctness and diversity became our militarys top priority. Another good reason to disconnect military from politics. But how do you communicate that to an agenda driven gay activist who has never been to where the rubber meets the road, or a military leader who is subject to politicians?
        Let,s go back to asking and then suggest that gays find another way to serve, or perhaps have them serve in jobs that won't put them where potential problems could degrade combat effectiveness.

    • La_maripoza says:

      oopsie, didya have to tell 'em?

    • That is your opion, yes it is a social engineering program, where have you been hiding? The soldiers was never asked, I served in combat Arms my 26 years, I can recognize bull when I see it, but you can't.

    • army spouse says:

      First of all your numbers are incorrect. Soldiers that are combat said 50%disagree with allowing them to serve openly and 69%of Mairnes disagree with them serving openly. Only 115,000 soldiers were polled out of 2million.Abc news is where I got that info. I know a number of soldiers fighting soldiers they think were gay and just because the "main stream society" thinks its okay does not make it okay. I do not think they should be degraded, spied on or beat on. However I do not think they should be able to serve openly. Military is suppose to be strong and intimadating. When was the last time you were scared of someone who acted like they were a woman instead of a man. Will they allow them to be "flaming" in their behavior? Will they allow them to openly kiss one another, I don't want to see heterosexuals doing that let alone samesex people.

    • Sorry MILVET, contrary to what you might believe, Republicans are not demanding a repeal for DADT. I was on Capitol Hill two months ago when Harry Reid called for debate on the repeal of DADT and the Republicans stonewalled him. Also, 70% of the soldiers do not support the repeal, they just stated that it would not disrupt the military significantly. Finally, 60% of the Marines are against the repeal, not for it.

    • RobertsUSMC says:

      the difference between showering next to a guy who is openely gay and a gay guy who is not open is that if we find out he's gay, he's kicked out because it can't work when you have a bunch of straight men trying to shower and live with one another having their rights violated by having a openly gay man in their with them. its just depressing that its merely pandering to a minority group at the expense of mine and my fellow Marines rights. we are already trying to bankrupt this country, and with this implemented into the military, DOD spending is going to go through the roof, and yet another reason to tax you and I. i dont know, just a couple of things to think about.

    • Big Marine says:

      Um, the majority of Marines DID NOT support the repeal….. and I'm a Marine Master Gunny…. what the hell is a battle buddy ? a new type of toy?????

    • Interesting to hear your stats. I serve in a unit of more then 260 Marines. I "heard" about this poll. I tried to take part. Too bad I was not "selected" to be a part of the poll. As a matter of fact Ive yet to find anyone in my unit of any of my sister units who were actually given a chance to take part in this poll. Top that off with the fact that ive yet to find even 1 military member that supports a repeal of DADT and ive yet to find even 1 military member that isnt overly tired of hearing about it. Drop the issue and leave a successful military alone.

  13. Retired SFC says:

    Man you aren't gonna live long with that kind of anger.

  14. SFC Retired says:

    Gays are already working beside you, so what's the big deal? And don't worry, there won't be any gay couples knocking down the door for post housing. Pleeease. Who wants to live around mostly young families with bratty kids running around? Milspouse said boyfriends and girlfriends would be discriminated against if they tried to get housing. They can get married, dipstick!
    I am retired now, but my partner and I were together 12 yrs of my 22 year career, but he didn't exist. No benefits, except for life insurance. But in all the units I served, he was known and accepted.
    The repeal of DADT will be a non-event. Just do your job, just as you are doing and they are doing now.

    • You were in the right branch of service to have your Partner known and accepted, and you damn right he did not get any benefits, you knew that before you had a partner. Had you served in the Marine Corps there is no way you would have been able to keep that secret for no 12 years, not only would he have not existed but you would not have whispered the fact that he existed, if you did make the mistake of peeking out of the closet you would have surely been court martialed and marched off like the plague!

    • this Marine Infantry vet, having served in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Haiti, (with a few battle buddies OBVIOUSLY in the closet) says BRAVO TO YOU!!! I agree with many, there are already too damn many homosexuals in the military to count, and Big Sarge ought to be drummed out if he's really so delusional as to think that there are none in our beloved Marine Corps. I have no prob with gays, I don't really agree with it, but hey, I don't think anyone should drive a chevy either. (just a Ford fan to the bone, that's all) that being said and as tolerant as I try to be, I don't feel that gay spouses should have the benefits of straights, at least until (and yes it will happen one day) gay marriages are legally recognized in this country, or at least in the state where the active duty service member is posted.

    • It's not a "non-event" it will cause major changes in the military. EO will become a nightmare as well as housing and benefits. There will be lawsuits and civil rights actions out the wazzoo! I have gay friends and am by no means "homophobic", but the way I see it a personal life should be just that. Why do they need to be able to walk around flaunting themselves, telling everyone they're gay? I don't walk around announcing that I'm straight

      • US VETERAN says:

        No one wants to flaunt anything, they want the same rights you have as a so called STRAIGHT person!!! You dont have to walk around blabbing your straight because you are not forced to closet that fact like the gays and lesbian military soldiers!!!!

  15. Concerned Vet says:

    I really wish they could make a way for lesbian partners to receive Veteran Benefits for their children. I am a lesbian, been married for 5 years, and would like my step-daughter to be able to use my benefits to go to college as well as my natural birth children. When I was in the service, almost half of my unit was gay or heterosexual trying to experiment. So, I think some people are really against this and some are just talking the talk, but sneaking around because they don't want to be outed.

    • You can not possibly be telling the truth about almost half of your unit being gay. You choose the wrong occupation to get any benefits for a dependent. It will never happen!

      • Concerned Vet says:

        I'm not kidding..I worked in legal and we chaptered so many soldiers out for being gay. I don't know if it was used as an excuse, but the numbers aren't suppose to lie.

    • I take it adoption wasn't a viable solution? If you adopt your step-daughter, and it is legally on paper as such, she should be eligible as a dependent.

    • Far as i know dependents of veterans are not eligible for Vetrans benifits anyhow. There for the actual veteran so it dosen't matter anyhow.

      • Veteran Navy Wife says:

        Educational benefits are offered for dependents when you are 100% disabled, what would the disability be? That is the only way dependents receive any benefits, been dealing with this for the past 17 years, know the system well and I am not a legal officer. Benefits are Chapter 35 for dependents of totally disabled veterans and in order to receive your child must be legally your birth child, step child (gay marriage is not recognized as a factor in this), or an adopted child. Foster children and children of same sex partners as well as dependent children who are not your own by marriage or birth such as a niece or nephew, are not entitled. You can find this information readily available on the internet site for the VA. Seems you are more concerned about sexuality than the veteran benefits.

  16. Where there's vice desires, something will fill the void if dwelt upon. Or RELAX.

  17. RJ Harris,USN-Ret. says:

    AIM1960&DRO What makes you think that a gay man or women would be attracted to you? Are you attracted to every opposite sex person?
    I suspect those Hormones that you fear are your own! Don't go in a panic, but, that person that presently showers and sleeps next to you may be gay and you haven't been attacked by them. These phobias that scare you so much were taught to you to fear those who are different from yourselves and not necessarily reality. It is my hope that as you age, your maturity and wisdom develops. You don't have to embrace differences, just recognise those differences and allow them the same freedoms that you and I served for.

    • kevin hinson says:

      very well said possibly one of the most educated comments ive read so far

    • RJ,
      If you were showering with 10 women would you be attracted to at least one? How about if you were deployed? Why do you think they dont allow men and women to shower together? Should we lift that too?

      For those of you who again have no idea what its like to go a month without a shower, please refrain from waxing eloquent on your ideas of repealing DADT.

      • Or viceverse that one of those 10 may find you attractive. I'd prefer private showers but if I had to shower I would prefer it be with a group that neither looked at me or that I wanted to look at.

        I find it off that gay males are the only group asking to shower with other gays and other straight males. Straight males are not demanding the right to shower with females, like wise Straight males do not want to live with/shower with females. Everybody needs private time to relax. War is hell and those in combat surely don't need the extra stress of having other parties view them sexually or vice versa.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Thanks RJ, well put.
      I would use a 2X4 and I'm a sissy.

    • diappointed says:

      Well said RJ. Finally a little sunshine amongst the clouds.

    • The reason the person in the shower or sleeping next to you havn't attacked you is because they haven't had the GO AHEAD yet. I have been approached in the barrack and in the showers many of times. You have enough trouble getting hit on by men then you get women doing it too just as aggressively as men because that is what they dress like, walk like, act like, try to be.

  18. Too bad we didn't have blogs back when Blacks and Women treatment in the military came up so we could show all the "Nay sayers" how their arguements and fears never came to pass and were probably same then. After 37 years of active and reserve service, I will just say I am proud to have served with ALL of soldiers and sailors who served with me GAY or STRAIGHT who were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice and defend the Constitution based on a Republican form of Government conceptualized by Greek philosophers who we would consider Gay by today's labeling.

    • Horse shit!!!

    • I am sick and tired of people using black issues for their cause, I have no choice of being black, but being gay you choose to be , you can convince your self that you have no choice but you are lying to your self. Use your own cause and leave my race out of it.

    • Active Duty says:

      Do you want to know the truth–

      I am sure many women servicemembers will hate me for saying this, but most of the hardworking, squared away, sick-of-all-the-whiners-and-tramps-degrading our collective reputaion types will agree with me.

      I am a female Naval Officer- Surface Warfare. I have been in the service (between the USMC and the USN) for 12 years. I like my job, I am good at my job, and I am thankful that I have the opportunity to do my job. That being said, I think the greatest disservice the Navy did itself was allowing women to serve on ships.

      As a woman on a ship, I honestly believe the number of problems caused by integrating women onto ships outweighs the manpower or 'social equality' benefits.

      So your argument holds no water with me on the female integration issue. And I agree with Black9 on the black issue.

      What else have you got?

    • RobertsUSMC says:

      Its amazing when people attach gays trying to serve openly in the military to the struggle of blacks and women serving…It doesnt even compare..those are HUMAN RIGHTS issues and we had a moral obligation to allow them to serve. I cant recall reading anywhere in the Constitution about sexual orientation.

    • Being Black, Catholic, Jewish, Morman, female, etc. is not the same as being immoral.

  19. For all of you that sit back and complain about the DADT, what's your real complaint. Are you just homophobic? Individuals like yourselves will try to find any and everything to stop this from happening, you all act as if being a homosexual is a disease and if you come in contact you will catch it. I truly think its mere ingorance on your part. Do you really think that they care about Base Housing, only they lazy folks like yourself want to live on post.

    • I am not homophobic. I just don't agree with the life style – but to each his own. But why should the time-honored way of military life be spit on in order that we accomodate a group of sexual deviants? I know that I have served honorably with many homosexuals, yet they observe the code as well – they never demanded special accomodations. This gay activism is going way overboard. What about those who engage in beastiality? They are sexual deviants; should we start to accomodate them as well? Better that we approve a federal law that changes how we perceive marriage – then address this crap!

      • Rob, I could not agree more! Keep on doing your thing and thank you for your honorable service!

      • diappointed says:

        who cares if you don't agree with the lifestlye….maybe they don't agree with yours!! Last I checked we live in a free country and are free to be who we are!! "Time honored way of military life"….really??!!

        • You said it all in your first few words.."who cares if you don't agree with the lifestlye". It's you damn arrogance that you gays so often reveal! Where the hell is your shame?? Yes, we live in a free country by the grace of God & those who have shed their blood on the battlefields. I don't know of anyone who shed their blood so that people could live a Gay lifestyle! Yes, you are free to be "Who" you are, but the issue is "What" you are.

          • Joshua Price says:

            *I* shed blood so people could live a gay lifestyle. And as far as "what", well, they are people. That's "what". Your objectifying attitude toward people who aren't like you is the kind of thing that led to fire-hosing black people. Women not being allowed to have jobs or drive. "No Irish need apply". And so on. Chances are, your ethnic group was discriminated against at some point. You just forgot.

          • I know thats right!

          • undressedemperor says:

            Prefering man-on-man sex does not make you a protected ethnic group. Your argument is specious.

        • undressedemperor says:

          You have obviously never served in the military. And I ordered large fries!

        • TO DIAPPOINTED: First of all, it is the Military that have fought for the "free country you live in and that allows you to be You!!!" So, maybe you should say thank you instead of downing the military, b/c without them you wouldn't get to have your opinion!!! Now, about the DADT, I'm an Army wife, and I don't think that anyone should be able to get the benefits of being a military spouse or dependent without being married. Now, if the couple has been legally married in any state that allows same sex marriage, then by all means, let the couple have the benefits, but no one should recieve special benefits just because they are homosexual. If gay couples get the BAH benefits without having to be married, then heterosexual couples should be allowed the same!!!

          • where does it say that they'll get benefits without being married? oh, right- it doesn't. nowhere in the article is it stating that they'll get benefits for boyfriends or girlfriends; it's referring to the fact that the federal gov't doesn't recognize same-sex marriages yet, so if someone gets married but their union isn't recognized, they might still be able to be recognized as a dependent.

          • disappointed says:

            TO DARAY: Let me start by saying I never once said anything negative about the military only about the ignorant comments on here. I also never stated that i think someones boyfriend or girlfriend should get benefits, homosexual or heterosexual. AND about your comment, "maybe you should say thank you instead of downing the military, b/c without them you wouldn't get to have your opinion!!!"….well I am one of THEM… I"m a solier and I have proudly served my country for the last 8 years. So, please get your facts straight before getting on me for something I didnt' say. Thanks.

          • I agree with that except that heterosexuals can get married in any state or country but gays/lesbians cannot… So what about the couples that have been together longer than u and your husband??? Should they not get the same benefits all because they are not able to be married in their state?????

      • there4-30 yrs says:

        sexual deviant? yes you are homophobic since you clearly do not understand. It is not an agenda, its about equal rights for those who commit and want to serve this great country. Frankly I don't know why many bother to serve, only to be embarassed, humiliated and put down. Lets talk about the Heros who are putting their lives on the line for you, how many have died in action in silence honorably being gay or lesbian ?

        • Your post just resonates and validate my point altogether… military members regardless of their sexual orientation ought to be more concerned with serving honorably as soldiers, sailors, and airmen – not "honorably gay." Your statement is GAY activism pure and simple!

          • Exactly so why do people care so much whether they're gay or straight! Don't contradict yourself!

        • Yes…let's do talk about that! How many gays have put their life on the line for us? How many compared to straight soldiers, soldiers with wives and children? Yes, let's talk about your so-called equal rights. I don't know why you gays bother serving either, because you are an embarrassment & humiliation to us who serve and have "normal" families.

          • You really sound piss at someone. It does not matter how many have served and have died gay or straight but that they did and they did it with honor. I don't know if you a male or female? I don't know if you have children or not. But what if the most capable person at the worst time in your life was gay and they had a chance to save you and that's all you got. Don't talk about them like that are not people. Who decide what normal is? I'm not a normal family since its just me and my daughter. Are we an embarrassment or humiliation?

          • diappointed says:

            your definition of normal is just that YOUR definition!! Really, think about things you say before you say them….thank goodness we have people with sense to make decisions.

          • 20 Year Vet says:

            Whether you like it or not yes there are cultural and social norms. It may make you feel better to assert that normal is something subjective. It can be generally but when you specify a topic … such as sexual practices. Of course there are norms or what MOST people in all walks of life practice and that's heterosexual relations. I know of very few gays. I'll give you this much .. it's gotta be biological not cultural because no one in thier right mind would choose it as a lifestyle. Aside from it obviously being disgusting why would you want such a bullseye on your back.

        • Old devil dog says:

          Yeah,4-30, how many? they are too busy trying to get in the backside of our troops. You people are sick. Stay in your closet and don't embarass us, who have served with honor, integrity, and principles, that you people don't understand. You all would be court martialed, if you served when I did. I sure as hell DON'T want a queer watching my back, when I was in combat. You people think you should have special rights and privilages. The only reason you are in the military, is because of the money. I did not see one "hero" homosexual when I was in the USMC. We don't need you all. go back to the left coast,San Fran, and the rest of Kalifornia, where you belong. We are not "homophobic" as you say, but want a decent, morally, valued America, which we gave all. I am a Korean (forgotten war} Marine, and presently 100% service connected DISABLED AMERICAN VETERAN. yOU ALL, WANT SPECIL PRIVILEGES, WHICH YOU DON'T DESERVE, Don't put this crap on us, as homphobic, just stay in your clown crowd, and don't exploit your deviant sexuality.—–OLD DEVIL DOG.

      • just because they never demanded them dosent mean they didnt want them or shouldnt have gotten the same privledges as you have as beign straight. FOr instance to be able to walk in uniform on the base hand in hand or to come home from a deployment adn have their love there and to give them a kiss. So you are saying they should be deprived of that and stand and watch you do it while they settle for hugs.. UGH!~

        • servicewife says:

          heterosexuals cant "walk in uniform on the base hand in hand", it's not just homosexuals. It's called PDA, a no no. Other than special occasion, such as returning from deployment you aren't suppose to kiss while wearing your uniform either.

        • undressedemperor says:

          Again you betray your ignorance and that you have never served. Normal couples are also not allowed public displays of affection in uniform, with very few exceptions. Even hugs are frowned upon. Also, it's spelled "privileges." If you want a hug, learn to make my cheeseburger right.

      • "Life style"? Such a frivolous term. I wouldn't call my heterosexuality a life style. A life style is a choice. Joining the military is a life style. Living in an apartment verses a house is a life style. I don't know a single gay person who ever chose to be that way. In fact, the overwhelming majority would much rather be heterosexual – and you can imagine why when you look at this forum.

        If the only type of gay you like is one who is locked safely in the closet, then you are a homophobe. That's pretty much what homophobia is.

        • SOooooooo….A gay who chose to be that way?????? Are you stupid enough to say that all gays are "victims". The next time you see a gay parade, you think about what you just said. There are alcoholics who say they didn't want to be and it was in their genetics. This may be true. However, they go to AA for help and get set from it. What effort does Gays make in getting help, if any?

          • They live alone and die lonely. You probably had a relative who did it!

          • Well at least they did that and didnt reproduce and spread that "gene" elsewhere! Ya that whole notion of having no choice is a crock of shit. You know its wrong, but you still act upon it..

          • diappointed says:

            Do you have any type of education?? I'm just curious as you sound completely uneducated.

          • undressedemperor says:

            Pot, meet kettle. And get off the pot. It's not really medicinal. BTW, your name is misspelled.

          • disappointed says:

            ha, really?? i haven't heard that since 2nd grade, ha. thanks for pointing out the mispelling of my name….i overlooked that, but fixed it for ya. ;-) so, does your comment mean that you have no education or that you do?? By education I mean a diploma beyond your GED or HS diploma. Medicinal?? don't see where that fits in undressedemperor….

          • Active Duty says:

            I got it. He means you sound like you are high.

            (get off the pot = stop smoking the MJ)

          • SKellogg says:

            Your just as bad as they are. what degrees do you hold? just because you have a piece of paper(which if you did you probably shove it in everyones face) doesnt make you smarter or better than anyone. By the way I am just 80 credits short of my BS.I choose to go to college not for the benefit of being smarter than everyone else, but to better myself and give my kids something to work toward when they get older.

          • wait, i thought this whole issue is because gays CAN'T reproduce and are therefore "unnatural"…

            i know most of you prefer to cling to your book of 2,000 year old fairy-tales then read any of the numerous scientific studies of homosexuality in non-human animal species, but they're out there, if you care to read them.

          • Ignoring the obvious gay activist literature, there are only a very few scientific studies involving "gay" animals, and most are inconclusive. A few studies have indicated that some lower simians – under extreme stress – may exhibit what seem to be homosexual tendencies, but most studies -"if you care to read them" – indicate such behavior is unnatural even in most animals. Back off the pseudoscientific stance. By the way, I am a Ph.D. animal researcher.

      • This country is in a downward spiral with no way to stop. Homosexual
        behavior is condemed in the Bible. God made woman for man, not man for man. It is a sin and all homosexuals will pay for their way of life.
        For a man or woman to say they were born that way is a rediculous
        statement, God never meant for people to participate in this life style.
        This nation needs to read their Bible and see what happened in the Old Testament to Sodom and Gomorroh. Wake up America, I don't think our soldiers should have to be subjected to this. I served 28 years in the military. We never had this SICK Problem pushed on us.

      • massgirlnow says:

        Absolutely agree

      • its not a "lifestyle" . it is not a preference. it is an orientation. genetic. part of who these people are…

    • MichaelBUSCG says:

      Seems that someone has hit a nerve. Why are you "lazy folks" for living on base? Seems like an ignorant point of view.

    • 20 Year Vet says:

      Well Said Rob. Also, it makes Jay feel better to believe that we are cowards, to put us in a negative light, instead of realizing we merely disapprove and have every right to do so. I don't approve of many things but I don't pop "phobia" on them because it's not applicble. Let's stop the cozy PC language to discuss the filthy act which is the center of the topic. Sodomy – is a deviant behavior and exchange of blood, fecal matter, and semen. Nothing more. It's a discusting practice that most all cultures, religions, and societies reject. When honest, direct, and accurate language is used you can see the truth much clearer. I'm tired of our politicians, our country, our families, our communities being threatened by filthy sexual preferences. Keep it in the closet where it belongs. You don't see heterosexuals marching around with a label on there forehead. Stop asking for special treatment Jay, pick up a gun(don't sit on one), focus, stand a post and defend your country. Stop whining about what you like to do with other men and expecting the normal world to accept it.

    • Now I am for everyone have the same rights but to call people who live on base "lazy folks" was dumb on your part. It is alot harder to live on base then off base. Far from been lazy.

    • As angry as you are about the situation, you must be one on the dadt list. It's not fair that you people get the rights that normal people get because you choose to go against god's plan and pair up with the same sex. Instead of name calling, you need to be on your knees praying for forgiveness and deliverance.

      • Very true.. because… Sodomy – is a deviant behavior and exchange of blood, fecal matter, and semen. IT IS WRONG, in the bible it is "AN ABOMINATION.."

    • Ironhand USMC says:

      Military families do not make the choice to utilize base housing because they are Lazy. If you had ever been assigned to a duty station where the cost of living is extremely high, then you NOT have made such a statement in the first place, now would you! The fact is, opting to utilize military housing makes perfect sense, if one finds themselves and their family assigned duty in California, especially in the San Francisco area. If a military family finds themselves stationed in Hawaii, Guam, Japan, Singapore, certain areas of Europe, Turkey, so on and so forth. Military housing would be the wise choice in these, and many other areas within CONUS, and overseas bases. So before you go off with your slamming of military families who opt to utilize base housing, how about doing some hard line research why don't you. As for the life style of the Homosexual community within our country, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, if Homosexuality is your life style, then by all means, go ahead and live your life, just don't expect, nor impose your right to live your life style, and impose the execution of your rights, on the Non-Homosexual population of our country!

    • Georgie56 says:

      I think your the one who is ingorant, This is a sick perverted sex act people like you throw in my face and I'm sick of it! Get back in your closet and keep your perverted self there. You have a choice and you pick this because your a sick pervert!

      • diappointed says:

        YOu strke me as the type of person get's beat up on a pretty regular basis.

        • undressedemperor says:

          But not by girly men like yourself. BTW, there's a run in your fishnet stockings, and I think you broke a nail making my Happy Meal.

          • disappointed says:

            to UNDRESSEDEMPEROR: I am not a girly man as you stated….I am a WOMAN….and i don't break nails making happy meals I broke them getting my education and saving the lives of people just like you. So take your childish comments somewhere that they are appreciated.

    • yeah lazy asses?I don't think so you jerk. My husband is a 2nd time combat veteran who shed blood for our country! He and men like him are the elite! You don't deserve to even shine his boots..get the hell out of my country if you are going to disrespect our service memebers like that! You have no honor, pride or sense of dignity! you are worthlesss hack…go away!

    • must be a liberal talking here.

    • "homophobic" is so over used — like pulling out a shotgun and hoping to hit something. I call BS on it!!! It carries absolutely no meaning!!! It used like a big stick — threatening others into giving in to "tolerance" of the homoerotic lifestyle . AND as to a "disease"… YOU said it! ALL who have been in combat know that there are indeed times when blood is shared from one troop to another. NOW I realize that you'll disagree with this, BUT face it HIV is a very real "disease" that IS prevalent in the homosexual lifestyle — not all, but too many… and just like heterosexuals have affairs, so too do homosexuals! I have personally witnessed a rather high incidence of partner hopping, breakups, and/or sharing partners… Soooooooo why intentionally induce the threat of HIV into an already stressful environment, let alone ruining another's life FOR THE REST OF HIS/HER LIFE AT HOME after already "giving" on the battlefield?! Repealing DADT is wrought with disaster… all for the sake of being politically correct and "buying votes"! …and allowing a very, very, very few to "be happy"… at everyone else's expense!

    • Homosexuality is referred to in the bible as "an abomination." The reason people "complain" as you put it, is simply because their instincts know that there is something WRONG with two people of the SAME gender in a relationship. Homosexuality IS a disease that is INFECTING society to make people think that is "ok to be gay," and nothing could be farther from the truth. The reason there is a "Human Race" is because of STRAIGHT couples. Pull your head out of your ass and think.. A box cant fit in a round hole just the same as one stick cant go in another and a hole cant fill itself with another hole. Gays shouldn't be in the military. There is plenty of reasons as to why, and if you can't think of any, then there is no point in continuing this debate. In short it has widespread consequences and affects unit cohesiveness in wartime especially.. You want the person guarding your back to be doing that, and not checking out your ass or everyone elses..

    • How unintelligent to say someone is lazy because they want to live on post. If you cannot discuss without belittling, should you consider yourself lazy because you cannot comeup with some intellagible to say?

      • If a homosexual is supposed to be genetically wired this way, then does the DoD have to make a third set of barracks? Are you saying homosexuals are a whole nother gendar? If you want to leave it at sexual preference, fine…then the cost effectiveness of repealing DADT will go through the roof. The government cannot afford to make gender driven barracks and then put two homosexuals in the same room. It will go against sexual policy.

        • Oh, and by the way, don't think homosexuals are prone to sexually assualting someone. What is right now…? It is not about being homophobic. That is a copout. To say institue a new gender is to create adding spending to an already out of control system. To call for a sexual preference forces people to live submissive to one over the other. DADT could offer peace to everyone. It could be revised…maybe. This is about serving in the military. The arguments should be kept in context. It is a selective service. It is voluntary, yes..but selection is by the government. The basic fact is..it comes down to money. Why should someone be forced to live in a room with someone they do want to…oh, yes, this would be on post (base) housing. Remember the single Soldiers, etc. You called everyone of the currently serving gay Soldiers, etc. lazy. Way to support.

    • How does wanting to live on base make one lazy. You say homophobic like it is a bad thing! For me it is a good thing. To me you are nothing but a QUEER. Something that natural does not like, God does not like and I do not like. Don't want to be around you by you or near you. I can see way out of the box and the DADT is about as good as it gets for you folks. Are you serving?

    • Truth-101 says:

      This is not about rights, but about force. They have the right to be a sodomite, however, they or anyone else in this world do not have a RIGHT to join any branch of military not matter what life style they live.

      We are not stringing up sodomites on trees or dragging them behind cars, we are just stating that they are not allowed to join the military.

      You sodomites are trying to force your way of life on us, and we don’t want it.

      Listen, you sodomites are so vain, that you think that your sexual preferences define the person you are. Wow! You people are base animals.

      • disappointed says:

        You keep stating "you" "you people" "You sodomites". Are you directing that at me bc you replied to my comment?? You don't know me or my sexual preference….but to clue you in, I am happily married w/ two children. I am just tired of seeing people put down bc of who they are. It is sad that our military where I have proudly served is so full of bigots.

      • 20 Year Vet says:

        Keep using the bold direct language Truth-101. Yes "Sodomites" is exactly what were(unfortunately) discussing. The filthy, immoral, and, unsanitary act of inserting a man's erection into a rectum. I think they ougt to broadcast the act live on primetime television so everyone's blood can curdle and see clearly the obscene behavior we're all being subject to tolerate. I'm certain the support would decline. Our military, elected officials, and the rest of society have much better things to address than two guys doggie style.

        • Actually, this is exactly what our country needs to be discussing. Morals, Values, Ethics, Righteousness, and Truth are the core foundations of this country. Leave the other countries alone, and fix the problems we have here.

          Just because you are attracted to an individual, does not mean you should have the right to pursue a relationship with them. Lusts are lusts, and as such, they are not always right.

          At what age does an individual develop the right, freedom, and liberty to choose to sleep with someone? Do they have the ability if done willingly to sleep with whomever (both parties agree). Can a 40 year old sleep with a 10 year old, or can a man sleep with a dog?

          If I agree that you can torture me to death, do you and I have that right in this country, or do certain laws for the existence of the state limit us.

          • animals can't consent because they can't speak. children can't rationally consent because their brains are not fully developed and their bodies haven't gone through the hormonal changes which make them sexually functional.

        • jaguerrero96 says:

          Thank you for your service. I serve in the Navy, but I have not seen combat yet. I can appreciate your point, but I and others are not Christian, so I can also appreciate people's desire to not be forced to live by the morals of others. I do not want to be forced to be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. I think that so long as everyone respects the barracks, then what anyone does on his/her private life should not be discriminated against.

    • Mr. Jay, with all due respect, You have the problem. This story has already been told before in the Bible and when God destroyed the city and even one in it they seem not to understand (homo's) that God does not care want you want. You are and always will be an abomination in the eyes of God. So the best I can state it for you is. GO TO HELL!

      • The Bible was written by a bunch of dudes and then books were hand picked by the catholic church to best suit the message they wanted to get across. Many books were left out because they were simply repetitious OR because they disagreed with what the church wanted people to believe. All written by a similar group of folks, all written well after the death of Jesus, and then horribly translated for centuries. If this man-made joke of religious bureaucrats is your basis for deciding who you do and don't like, if there was a hell you'd probably go. But there isn't, so don't worry. "You can be pretty sure you created god in your own image when he hates all the same people you do" Pretty much sums up most religions actually.

    • Marine1952 says:

      Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance and insolence.

    • Jay. I have no fear of gays or turning gay. I am a vet who served two tours in Iraq and like many of the other folks that oppose the DADT I don't think that now was the time to address that issue. There are many concerns with gays openly serving in the military and as an infantry guy I know that the men that I served with would have tormented anyone who was openly gay, and that means even the higher ups. That is life and to repeal this policy during the middle of two wars and trouble in other parts of the world coming to a head the repeal of DADT, at this time, just shows how screwed up this administration is. I think that gays have a right to die for their country like anyone else but there is a time and place for everything and now was not the time to try to integrate such a change. As far as lazy folks living on post, it doesnt sound like you have a family tried to raise a family on a privates income. There are also other issues like benifits and so forth. If you give gays "partners" benifits it would only be fair to give hetrosexuals "partners" benifits too right. I mean "spread the wealth" right. That is the type of person you sound like to me

    • Jay, speaking from "good knowledge", i mean saying if i was one..*cough cough* i wouldnt give a shit about base housing, i'd care about not having to hide anymore, i'd care about when i die in combat my partner getting my life insurance, i'd care about being able to eventually marry and give health insurance to that person and no…i would not give a rats ass about base housing. me along with all my "other friends" like our privacy and there fore wouldnt even concider living on base. i live in the barracks right now and i hate it! and you are correct most of my peers and fellow soldiers already know and dont care its the ones that are afriad of change and afraid of us that have a problem with it.

      • Active Duty says:

        You do realize that all of your peers that 'know' about it are violating the UCMJ as well as you are for not turning you in and getting you kicked out.
        Maybe you should practice a little more of the "Don't tell."

    • It is not a matter or homophobia. It is a matter of being forced to support homosexuality and give up my religious beliefs that this great nation was built upon. Man shall not lay with man for it is considered an abomination. Now I am being told that I should put the military before my God after being in for 13 years. This is nothing more than the current administration clawing as they fall to the ground so they can say YES WE CAN! Give it up, The military polls were a hoax and the media is doing nothing more than feeding it. The media said 70% say it is good to go with the military. What they fail to say is only 20% of the military were polled and the poll was barely mentioned or advertised. I did not even find out about the poll until I complained to my Group CC and it was closed. This is a joke and a disgrace to our soldiers with minds on the war and not Lady GAGA. Anything to get more votes and sale more CD's.

    • Ironhand USMC says:

      Greetings jay, I see that you have in fact casued a great stirring of the masses with your posting. Additionally, I see that it was your objective to doso from the beginning, with the style and content of the rubbish you posted. If you have read the replies to your posting, then you can very plainly, that I am not alone in my opinion of what you had posted. But you have yourself a glorious day nonetheless. Thank You for your attention, and please do, go on enjoying the freedoms of America, which true Patriots have labored long in providing to you. "Semper Fidelis"

    • Ive got dozens of Marines standing in line waiting to "marry" … why? 1. free pass out of barracks lifestyle 2. bah. Nothing more need be said. We think resources are thin now? keep playing liberal rules and wasting time with pointless topics and see how fast our military power disappears to countries that mean business. Save the gay issue for California and leave the real work for my proud and dug in members who just dont care to hear it anymore.

    • Jay, it is funny that you talk about ignorance, then you group everyone together that doesn't agree with your opinion as homophobics and that everyone that lives on post is lazy. As an army wife, and someone that lives on post, and I also have a gay brother, whom I have a wonderful relationship with. I believe that if most of the military has a problem with DADT being removed, then DADT should stay in affect, b/c it is the military that will have to deal with all of the reprocussions and problems when DADT is removed, not YOU! We also have a war going on, and I believe that it and all of our deployed military should be our main focus, not DADT!!! Also, just because someone lives on post doesn't mean that they are lazy, my family lives on base b/c it is finanically better for us…I'm also sure that is the reason for a lot of military families, so before you judge families that live on base, maybe you should get your facts straight!

    • When I think of the military. I think of young men becoming men, looking sharp and tall in their uniform. I just don't see a men wearing women clothes and acting like women. I'm sorry but what a disgrace this will be!!! My son is getting there and I just don't see him sharing a room with someone that is gay AND if this was to happen I will not sign for ANY OF MY KIDS TO JOIN!! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!! but GOD DID "NOT" MADE A MEN AND A MEN OR A WOMAN AND WOMAN!!! HE MADE A ("MEN AND A WOMAN") What homesexuals are NOT saying is that they have the HIGH rate in DIVORCE and HIGH rate in AIDS and sexual transmited disease!!!! So please explain why will I support something like this!!!

    • Oh, yes one more think. Tell me if this sound logical to all you homo sexuals. You keep on saying that God made you like this! IF God would of have made you like this than He would of had finish that job. God does NOT make jobs have the way. Get this in your head it takes a MEN and a WOMAN to make a babe!!! NOT a men and a men and a woman and a woman!!! in other words it takes a men sperm and woman's egg to form a human being. Take a good look in your mirrow!! You are not a men with an image of a woman and a woman with a image of a men. YOU ARE A MEN INSIDE AND OUTSIDE , YOU ARE A WOMAN INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.

    • jays NIGHTMARE says:

      what a dumb azz. You want to promote your life style/and possible spread of STD, do it in a community that tolerates it – preferably off base. My kids don't need anymore exposure to this type of perverted life style than is being forced on them through the sorry azz educational system, and liberal agendas. It's bad enough having to be deployed, seperated from your family, getting shot at and then having to deal with the thought of some perverted SOB living next door that should be listed as a sex offender. Yea thats my take BUB !!!

    • massgirlnow says:

      Homophobic? NO! My issue is: if gays and lesbians are allowed to serve, will they have their own tent? No? Then why didn't we have co-ed tents during the DADT era?

    • Homophobic? nope, I dont care what happens between two consenting adults in the privacy of their bedrooms. However, preferance and bedroom proclivities are private matters not to be presented in the work place for public considerations. Being openly gay means that your sexuality is being displayed and made an issue of…when done by a straight person it is called sexual harrasment…leave sexuality at home, and be professional at work, gays should serve in silence just like the rest of us have too!

    • The term "homophobic" (both parts being of Greek origin) means "excessive fear or dislike of sameness" – not homosexuality. The people who coined this stupid term don't even understand the language (trying to mix Greek and Latin), just raw hatred of moral people. Homosexuality is not a disease, it an immorality – just like lying, cheating, and stealing. And, I don't like to be around people who lie, cheat, steal, or bugger.

  20. Isn't it time we equal treat all all men (and women) the same under the governance of law? Do you think we would have had the changes which did not destroy our fighting strength when the situation changed for women or Black based on bigotted views of the past? Our Constitution was not based on the Bible, our forefather were Deist and had great fear of organized religion, unfortuntely for some reason people think we have a State Religion. If we do not repeal DADT we will be looked at in the future like the Salem witch trials–some treat Gays & Lesbians as our modern day version of "witches" I choose to honor the service of all who serve honorable regardless of who they love. It is time to repeal DADT and get on with more weightier matters like the economy, jobs etc. SHAME on Senator McCain who has been to true political flip flopper! It was a gay scoccer player who helped rush the cockpit of the last plane on 9/11 that prevented the Capital from being hit by a plane–probably saving the lives of many of our Senators and Congressmen who still have no regard for the sacrifice.

    • Our Constitution was not based on the Bible, our forefather were Deist and had great fear of organized religion, unfortuntely for some reason people think we have a State Religion.

      You might want to do alittle more study about who it was that were Deists and Christian. Only two were professed Deists. Jefferson and Franklin. That leaves an overwhelming majority who had Judeo-Christian values. The Constitution if it were secular in nature would not have references to Providence capitalized. There is no clause for seperation only that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibit the free excersize thereof. Educate yourself before you spout off what your modern education has taught you.

      • diappointed says:

        "government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"….EXACTLY torquer2…..so why is it that everyone who HATES gays are trying to bring religion in to the decision making process and discussion here.

        • To disappoint diappoint:

          Religion aside, let me break it down to you.

          The State, Commonwealth, Country, Nation, whatever you would like to call it was established to form a better union (Hobbes Leviathan). The beast came together and as a result, we as individuals gave up the right to kill one another. We relinquished certain rights to have security.

          Marriage, between a man and a women (axiomatic) produces the possibility of offspring, which benefits the state. The state could not continue without offspring. For this benefit, the state grants right (privileges) to heterosexual couples, and we are given a marriage. This marriage is given, because we, “Heterosexual couples” in the axiomatic realm, have the ability to continue the state. Sodomites do not have this ability.

          • Mustang03Ret says:

            Truth 101 – Your reasoning fails in the face of the fact that the ability to procreate is not a requirement for marriage. Marriage does more than just promote procreation, and certainly procreation is possible without marriage. Marriage promotes a great many other things that are beneficial to society, including (but by no means limited to) the formation of stable, committed partnerships that can form the basis for healthy, supportive family units.

            Orphanages and foster homes are filled with children conceived by heterosexual couples who either cannot or will not care for them. Obviously, not all of the heterosexual couples took their right/privilege to procreate – and the responsibilities that accompany it – seriously.

          • My reasoning is false, I find your statement void and lacking, but that could be because my degree is in economics, and when it comes to reasoning and logic, I have had exhaustive amounts of literature and teachings on the topics.

            Now, to answer you question quickly, No, that is not the point of a marriage. Units, what are you talking about. If this were the main purpose of the government wanting marriages, they would not have limited it to human/human relationships, but for the sake of units, we could marry dogs, cats, horses. You logic is false. Please learn how to form axioms before you state my logic is false.

            An axiom is a foundation, which cannot be refuted, if your axiom is refuted, which yours just was, your argument falls. Refute mine, based on the marriage axiom of procreation.

          • Mustang03Ret says:

            An axiom is a maxim: a saying that is widely accepted on its own merits. In logic, it is a proposition that is not susceptible of proof or disproof; its truth is assumed to be self-evident. You argue that "marriage is given [by the state] to heterosexual couples [because they] have the ability to continue the state, and that non-heterosexuals are not permitted to marry because they cannot "continue the state." Perhaps in certain totalitarian regimes, but in our country the state NEVER requires proof of procreation potential before marrying two people. Moreover, every non-heterosexual person I know or have ever met would agree that marriage should be limited to human/human relationships. You have not stated anything that is axiomatic, since the sole basis for government-sanctioned marriage being procreation is absolutely disprovable – your assumption to the contrary notwithstanding.

    • La_maripoza says:

      there are no shortages of gay heroes:
      "…they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."
      Epitaph on the tombstone of highly decorated AF SGt. Leonard Matlovich whoe served in Viet Nam.

    • Fact is RobJ, everyone in America has the equal right to get married to any person of the opposite gender, except for close family members and minors. The non-existent "right" to gay "marriage" is a special privilege, not a right. I have no problem extending special privileges to members of society. I have a HUGE problem for people demanding special "rights".

  21. Gays and Lesbians have always served in the Military and are there now—why shouldn't they have their First Amendment right to speak the truth and why do we have the right to ask them to lie? There is no room for bigotry in the Military regardless of who it is against!

    • Are you aware that by serving in the U.S. Military that most of your "First Amendment right to speak the truth" go right out the window? Just by the nature of what we do, it would be impractical to treat military service like a regular job. Military service is NOT a RIGHT it is a PRIVILEGE!

    • You are absolutely correct when saying that gays amd lesbians have always served, they are fortunate to have the right to serve in the closet and that is where they should stay! What do they want? To hold hands in combat, or better yet, imagine 2 Marines in dress blues at the Marine Corps Ball with medals clanking against each other while they kiss while dancing to lady in red! Serve under DADT or get the hell out the military is not for everyone.

      • Big Sarge, I'm really embarrassed that you are, somehow, a Marine. I'd like to apologize for everyone on your behalf. "imagine 2 Marines in dress blues at the Marine Corps Ball with medals clanking against each other while they kiss while dancing to lady in red!" So when my husband and I, both of us Marines, attend the Ball together, does that disgust you? Why is it such a terrifying thought that gays and lesbians be afforded the same rights as every other military member? They aren't asking for special rights or to have their hands held, they want (and deserve) to love who they love. No one can choose who they love, or my husband and I never would have gotten married. And there is no way that gay men and women can do more damage to marriage and the children produced by it than what heterosexuals are doing to it already. Side note: one of the best officers I ever had was gay, and so was the best G6 guy. The Marine Corps would be the real loser if either of them were discharged.

      • I agree. Also read what army spouse wrote. It says the truth. As for trying to compare straight marriages to homosexual ones is ridiculous. I understand gays want rights, but what about our rights. My rights would be violated if gays showered or bunked with me. Why not have all soldiers shower and bunk together. What's the difference. If gays have different barracks, then they're rights are violated. Avoid the headache and leave DADT alone.

    • undressedemperor says:

      Bill Clinton's DADT policy doesn't ask them to lie. It simply asks them not to TELL. I don't need to know anyone's sexual proclivities, gay or straight. That's the beauty of DADT.

    • To Speak the Truth???? The military don't ask you who you fu*ked last night either?!?!?! OMG!!!! I can't believe how people have used DADT in there own twisted way….I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE FU8KING!!!!! And the twisted part also the People that used the DADT to dismiss military personal because of Being Gay, it was put in place to Protect them, I see the back of Soldiers car's and Trucks gay pride stickers, they didn't get kicked out!!! But am pretty sure no one wants to hear how they banged there FAT WIFE or THERE GAY LOVER!!! there is no place for that in today's Military!!!! SEX (HAVING IT OR TALKING ABOUT IT) HAS NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY!!!!!!!! When your at home or Walmart it is no ones Business!!!!! Don't ask me and don't tell me!!!!!!!!!!! Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO what when it's repealed does that mean I can go DRY HUMP MY HUSBAND IN THE PARKING LOT!!!! How much since does that make!!!

  22. Repeal the Ban says:

    I'm pretty amazed with all of you in this day of age to be so narrow minded! Same sex couples wouldn't be looking for benefits for their "boyfriends" they would be looking for benefits for the Partners, equivalent of our husbands and wives, and don't act like straight soldiers now don't currently screw the system by just getting married so they don't have to live in the barracks with sham marriages!

    Most Straight army marriages are a joke anyways! You have all of these soldiers getting married after knowing eachother for 2 weeks in AIT and youre saying thats more meaningful then a gay couple that has been together for 3 years committed to eachother only. You know how many married soldiers I see cheating on their spouses on a daily basis, well I know the one gay soldier I know never cheated on his!

    Their are good and bad people in any group of society, and their is always going to be someone trying to get away with something. But don't try to take away the rights of another human being because your worried about the amount of people that are allowed on post housing moron! I'm pretty sure Same sex couples wouldn't want to live on post anyways due to narrow minded idiots like your selves.

    • Idiot.

    • I am glad you stated that "in this day and age" I figure you mean that twenty years ago a gay couple would not want to serve openly in the military, but also would not want to be seen holdong hands on any street in America due to the possible consequences. It is not taking away a RIGHT, it is not a given right to serve in the military it is a priviledge, and a priviledge that gay and lesbian people should be damn happy to have DADT, They will never have the chance to serve OPENLY, stay in the closet or simply get out and find a job where you will not have to hide your gayism!

      • Big Sarge, if you knew how many people were gay in this military, you would not state something like that. Remeber your Army Values?? Integrity means “completeness” and “wholeness.” Integrity leads you to unity and consistency in your principles, values, and behavior. It requires you to be candid and sincere with your peers, subordinates, and superiors. Integrity calls upon you to be honest and honorable in word and deed at all times.
        How can gays and lesbians do that with DADT?

      • diappointed says:

        "Gayism", pulling words from the Urban dictionary now are we??

    • Your argument is weak.

      "Their are good and bad people in any group of society, and their is always going to be someone trying to get away with something."

      Don't think for one minute that heterosexual couples have a monoply on infidelity!

    • Zouavetank says:

      You are correct in that they would only be interested in housing and such for their “partner.”. Therein lies the problem. They are looking for precedent. If the military acknowledges gay unions, then it is a major step twards state governments being forced to accept to recognize them as well. I am all for ANYONE who wishes to serve our country to be able to do so. I however, do NOT believe that the military should be used a platform to effect social agendas! While serving, I never broadcasted that I was straight and the gays NEVER broadcasted that they were gay either (and I knew several). Everyone was there to serve and that was it. I realize that some would argue for equality…they have it. No one asks, no one tells. That means NO ONE gay or straight should be discussing their sexuality while serving! As for civil unions, for the sake of benefits, fine, fair enough. But, that is for courts to determine, NOT the military!

      • Amen and halleluia for your comment my friend. Right ON!!!

      • My Opinion exactly!!! It is not the Military's Job to Decide on this Matter!!! It should be handled by the People, 2ndly, Military or Not, if you are at work talking about who you are screwing, I'm Stating " Your Fired" because regardless of your sexual preference there is NO PLACE FOR IT AT WORK!!!!! Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • My only comment is that you learn to spell and learn the difference between there and their before you post again.

    • I complete agee with you. RIGHT ON!!!

    • Honor, Courage, & Commitment aren't monopolized by heterosexual, white males…The best soldiers and Seabees I knew were lesbians.

    • Yes, some marriages are a joke in order to get out of the barracks, try living in the barracks..thats a joke….thats why they are getting married. Gays would do the same if they were allowed to jump out of the closet. Try again!

    • Marine1952 says:

      YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE….

    • Sex between heterosexual couples is for procreation, sex between a homosexual couple is for gratification. There is a difference. Stop being so narrow minded and realize the damaging effects this "movement" is having on society. That being said, engaging in homosexuality is a choice, engaging in heterosexual sex is natural. Why should a sexual deviant group be awarded special rights? That would mean that all homosexual couples would receive the option to serve and have benefits when child molesters and people who engage in bestiality wouldn't. It is not right and by most societies and religions is nothing more than an "abomination." In short, the ban is justified. Bringing someones choice to cheat on their spouse is contrary to this argument, there are always those kinds, on both sides of the fence. If you do your research, homosexual males are more likely to cheat then their lesbian counterparts. Also gay relationships fail at a much higher rate. than that of straight couples. Your narrow minded view is really a product of propaganda and ignorance.

      • Not true. I'm heterosexual and only have sex for gratification.

      • enginehouse2417 says:

        once again, this is not a gay issue, DADT. It is a military issue. If our government is demanding our military to keep SLIENT about this one insignificant issue, and if we, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE argue over the "gay" issue, THEN what else is our government asking our military men and women to remain silent about that they need to say, and what are we, the American People doing to make sure our military men and women (past and current) iare receiving the services they require and need? LET WE THE PEOPLE SUPPORT OUR MILITARY….or let us hang our head in shame.

    • You don't have a concept of what marriage is, what you don't get is , these people already have the same rights as you do, but because they choose a different sexual path the get extra rights. I don't care what the do in the bedroom, just don't try to get me to agree with what they do.Also you need to study world history, I will leave it at that.

    • I couldn't agree more. In the Navy, there are way too many people getting married for the extra money, while the sailors who aren't married get a noticeable amount less on their pay checks in comparison to married sailors.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      If we are not the voice of our Military, who will be? What will the government insist they keep secret tomorrow? Our Service Men and Women are honorable; and their lives can be changed forever. If I as a civilian stand by and watch a homeless veteran walk by without a thought, what kind of person does that make me? SILENT. It is time we start supporting our military. We are their VOICE. They have given so much; it is time for the American People to give back.

    • Amen to you ….I like you :)
      I'm gay and my wife of over 4 years now was in the Army and went to Iraq in 2003 and is now disabled….I'll paste a reply I posted to another person's blog….You're right…..ppl are narrow minded

      "But I bet if you're a man, you'd sit and watch 2 lesbians have sex or even better, join in. Futhermore, in a time of conflict, if YOU and a "gay" as you call US, were to come face to face with gunfire, killing, etc….I bet you'd let that "gay" save your sorry ass!!!
      People like you make me sick. I have a wonderful wife of over 4 years now and she has shown me more respect and love than ANY man could….
      and OH YEAh, my wife was in the Army…went to Iraq and was shot at so your politically correct ass can have the freedom you have…".

      Sorry for you,

      ~J

    • Marine M.Sgt. says:

      I'm straight, never been married and I've been in the Marines for nearly 20 years…. had a few girlfriends and the reason I'm not married is due to the fact that I've been deployed a lot, and it would not be fair to put a wife through that.
      And for your info couples do not live in barracks. Even the single Marines don't live in barracks, they live in B.E.Q.'s Bachelor Enlisted Quarters. Couples live in base housing. You are obviously a civiilian who is talking out of your a**…

    • Gay people are the worst at staying faithful…I think you'd better investigate what you state before you state it. Don't go assuming just because you know one or two gay faithful people that all gays are faithful. The way you're sounding is if you'd been cheated on and feeling sorry for yourself, either that or you're gay.

    • Ummmmmmm Sorry I know Personally of 3 Couples that are GAY AND MARRIED IN SHAM( HETEROSEXUAL) MARRIAGES FOR BENEFITS AND MONEY!!!!

    • When our society starts changing our nation's laws based upon who you sleep with what's next?

    • Gays can serve under the new law but the Uniform Code of Miltary Justice, UCMJ, does not allow unmarried couples to cohabitate. Gays can not marry under Federal law, therefore under the UCMJ they can not cohabitate. No base housing can be authorized. Our politicians need to be aware of the UCMJ before they pass stupid laws. The UCMJ is the guiding statues that keep the good order and discipling of the miltary services from going down the tube. Without the UCMJ there is no military as we know it. We will just be a military mob of some sort.

  23. Cant remember ever meeting a gay in the service must have been those years. That i tryed to forget a whole lot of stuff.

    • Chances are, it was never an issue, so you never gave it a thought.

      Thank you for your service.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      and that is one of the problems…we have forgotten our heros Past and Present. You have sacrificed a lot, your whole life, for us civies…as I have said, WE CIVILIANS NEED TO MAKE NOISE; IF YOUR HEROS, PAST AND PRESENT ARE NOT CARED FOR, THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE LESS SO–GAY OR STRAIGHT. I HAVE WRITTEN MY CONGRESSMAN ABOUT THIS ISSUE; I HAVE PUT UP FLYERS AROUND MY LOCAL CHURCHES ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED. WE ALL NEED TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OUR SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN, GAY OR STRAIGHT, AND THEIR FAMILIES, WHOMEVER THEY MAY BE. MIKE

  24. same freedoms says:

    So do this mean that every HIV case will be open are reported in the Army Time? To receive Veteran Benefits, this is also a wright to know. Freedom of the Press. This will do a lot of damage in the long run. The State has to report this to the Feds will the Military start doing the same.

    • Are you saying gays will cause a plague of HIV throughout the military?

      • CHRIS2DEC says:

        It is possible that very many gay servicemembers would have or spread HIV. Then what? They are allowed to stay in the military, receive healthcare, get restationed to in the states only – no deployments, and no one can be told that they are HIV positive. So they get to live off military paycheck, not have to deploy, and possibly continue to infect others in the military because HIPPA laws prevent anyone from telling who has it.

        • NotSoPrivate says:

          HIV has been around for a while, with the closeted homosexuals serving just as long as the heterosexual. What does that matter?

          Heterosexuals with HIV will spread HIV at the same rate they have been. Homosexuals will do the same. What's the difference?

          MINUS the fact that females CANNOT spread HIV to each other.

          We soldiers get tested every year, smartie-pants. If we are HIV positive, what's the difference if we're gay or straight?

          FYI–there has only been ONE case of HIV transmitted from Woman to Woman EVER. How? By a shared sex toy that was used by the woman with a positive man PRIOR to her event with a woman. The HIV infection came from a HETEROSEXUAL ENCOUNTER.

        • Veteran Navy Wife says:

          Anyone who become sick or injured during their service can be compensated for that matter under the current VA rules, so if one becomes sick with HIV and it is related to sexual behavior, then yes they can still be compensated for their choice in sexual partners, same as hetrosexuals. This is a given that if you are career and serve more than 5 years, you can be medically retired and receive your retirement benefits as well as VA benefits. Not sure I am happy about this idea, but when it happens and I am certain it will, then someone will have to address this. Everyone is routinely tested (or suppose to be) and at the same time if someone is infected and not identified, how can a combat injury in the field be addressed properly? I mean there are blood transfusions done on the battle field from one soldier to another in emergent cases and this could pose a significant problem for the miltiary as well as the veterans administration. Again though this is a fear for all sexually active persons and it is not just HIV, it is hepatitis, herpes, and other such sexually transmitted disease.

    • True… If they get AIDS, military medical will have to pay for it..

    • Just the facts says:

      I believe current data from CDC shows male to male sex as 50-60% of Americas HIV population. Based on such one can assume gays being allowed to serve would cost the taxpayers massively! Yes this data would be reported and the GAO would be able to assign $$$ to it.

      2nd gay males have an extremly higher rate of mental conditions, drug abuse, and sucide. This is reported now in the CDC and would also be accounted for in the DoD.
      Not my opinion but the facts.

      It's just paper money anyways we can just print more of it.

      • militarywife says:

        Wait. 50% of HIV cases come from gays? Doesn’t that also mean 50% of HIV cases come from straights!? That’s not a smart argument. And gays wouldn’t have to deal with as much depression and suicide or what other “mental” conditions you are talking about if they were allowed to just be themselves. You hide in the closet all the time and see how good you feel about yourself.

        • undressedemperor says:

          Actually, it is a smart argument. If we accept the gay community statistics that approximately 10% of the male population is homosexual, that means 10% of the population is producing 50% of HIV cases. In other words, Homosexual males are 10 times as likely as Heterosexual males to be HIV positive.

          Also, we don't have closets; we have wall lockers.

  25. I served my 20. I think that anyone who is willing to stand up and say "Yes, i will die for my country if need be" should be allowed to serve. If you are against gays serving, you had better have or be prepared to serve yourself. No one is saying unmarried couples get base housing, or even will be fighting with you over doctor appointments. But with the number of troops deployed today, we need all the volunteers we can get…. unless you just want to draft people again, but only the heteros, not the gays.

    Today men and women do serve together, sharing sleeping and shower space, with little or no discipline problems. Most know how to act like adults, and control their desires. And you would be surprised (apparently) by the number of gays currently serving.

    Anyone will ing to put their life on the line is more than welcome to serve beside me!

    • Izzi, what you declare in your post is not 'ground-breaking.' I know as well as you do that gays serve in the military. Most of them are worst-kept secrets. However, I just don't see the need for the activism. If I am not pressing my hetero lifestyle on you, then what right does homos have to press upon me their ideas and lifestyle?

      • That's the problem. It's already assumed that you are straight, just like it is "assumed" that those serving in the military are all straight. Gays and lesbians want their choice back; to say who they are with no repercussions!! Why is that so hard for people to take in.
        And izzi, I'm with you about men and women already sharing sleeping and shower space. I have had to on many occasions share a tent with males when I was the only female around. I have gone on many convoy missions overseas where I am the only female and had to share sleeping space with my buddies. Tent showers!! Those things are so unsecure when you have heavy winds blowing. We might as well had one big open bay shower!!
        I have sooo many gay friends that serve in our military. It's pretty sad that they do not feel comfortable bringing their partner to holiday parties and family gatherings. It's sad to hear them not be able to claim their child as a dependent because they were not the one that gave birth. It's just sad. I want the same rights for them that I have. The military is discriminating. If a civilian employer did this, they would have lawyers in their face, but not the military. Yes, they choose to serve, but because they want to. What would you rather have? Someone willing to do the job who happens to be gay? Or someone who is drafted to serve and all they care about is doing what they can to get themselves out?

      • US VETERAN says:

        No one is pressing their lifestyle on you they are simply asking for the same rights that you yourself dont have to fight for because you are what society considers "normal" wake up its 2010!!

    • So your saying .Men and women share the same rooms and shower together.I was in 10 years and never saw that.Separate rooms and separate showers. I"m glad to hear a retired service member has no problems taking a shower next to a flamboyant gay or trans sexual.

      • OrdieWife says:

        My husband served for 8 yrs…And no normally in barracks or at home shower sharing and all that dont happen unless consentually. On deployment or pack-out however is another story. In Korea, 38 sailors all slept, ate, showered, and what-have in the same huge tent. Men and women alike. 3 rigged canvas shower stalls, for everyone to share. I have a good friend who served with them that was openly gay, and even his CO knew he was homosexual, and still said that he was an exceptional man and was proud to serve by his side. Now that same sailor has lost his naval career, and has had to fight for the last 2 years to get it all back. I have never known a gay(I've known dozens) to press themselves or their lifestyle onto someone who is not a willing recipient and openly gay themselves.

    • Excuse me there sir, I am a captain in the ranger batt and have been deployed many a times. What pipe are you smoking to say there are not discipline problems when men and women share the same environment? Infact you are outright lieing. Our brigade XO was having an affair with a female captain, who gave herpes to 9 other male officers. Of the 15 females attached to us in the BSB 14 of them went home because they became pregnant. Get your facts straight, pull your head out of the sand and I question whether you really served.

      • Active Duty says:

        I am in the same military as you– Navy LT– and I have seen similar stats to yours throughout my time. I question most of these "I served and there wasn't a problem" types. We have enough problems with only 2 genders. On the bright side, if all the females were declared lesbians, not as many of them would shirk their duties by getting pregnant. (For the record, I am female- and heterosexual.)

        I think we should start a "Punish the irresponsibly pregnant" thread and see how many people try to crucify us.

    • la_maripoza says:

      thanks izzi, maybe just for the heck of it we should haveonly hets go to he front; so they can show how macho they are.

    • Agree 100% that everyone should serve their country. However rigtht now DADT is serving the purpose. Gays ar serving and the majority of service members are comfortable. Any changes now would upset that balance. America is slowy being changed into something it isn't and now it's creaping it's way into the military on all fronts.

    • I would sure like to know just what it is you do. I bet it is not Infantry. So what units have men and women sleeping together, showering together? Just because someone is willing to die for their country does not give them that right. If that was the case we would not have a test to get into the military. How dumb of a statement is that. So we should go back to war or jail the choice is yours? Or how about I don't care if you are in a wheel chair you can join because you are willing to die for your country. Grow up. Your right we do need all the volunteers we can get. They are not there? From what I have read the recuriting goals are met every year. So their is one thing I agree with you on. The DRAFT why we could just start it up and take anyone that gets their number drawn. Boys, Girls, Boys that like Boys, Girls that like Girls we could do away with most of the rules and would have plenty of bodies for the next war , and the ones we have now.

    • enginehouse2417 says:

      the problem with DADT goes Way Beyond "the gay issue." If the government is asking our military to Keep Secret some things that have nothing to do with national definse or classified material, what makes you think they don't make them stay quiet about Other things (i.e. why are our military men in Iraq fighting with severe injuries–ripped open arms–when they should be sent to the hospital? Why is the government letting their wounds get infected to the point of loss or death?) They Cannot Tell. So it is up to us civilians to support our military by providing them a voice. WE MUST AS CIVILIANS ASSURE OUR MILITARY (PAST AND PRESENT) ARE RECEIVING WHAT THEY NEED

    • Marine M.Sgt. says:

      Anyone who is willing to die for their country is an idiot. My job as a Marine is to make the ENEMY die for his or her country…. and I've helped plenty of them along. The difference is that I would be willing to lay down my life for my brother Marine or even a Soldier, but never for my country. The next time you feel like playing John Wayne, do it by yourself…….

    • I agree with you Izzi! Think about it, the same people you want to deny rights to, are the same people out there risking there lives on a daily basis for your spoiled asses to sit at home in comfort and reap all the rewards of their sacrifices while looking down on them because of their sexuality. It's selfish, demeaning, and down right ungrateful of the American people as a whole.

    • It is bad enough thatgay people have to live in misery while fighting for people who could care less that we are fighting battles that they would never have the guts to fight themselves. These are the greatest soldiers because they spend their whole lives fighting….internally and externally……a war the people that we defend for everything…… don't want us, the gay soldier community, to have the right to just be ourselves. Where is the love and respect? You would be surprised how many soldiers are gay in the military right now. We would lose at least half of our forces. You have no idea!!! Think about it. A person wo has nothing to live for, because you try and deny everything they wish for, has nothing better to do but be a person who will risk everything, no matter what, because nobody cares anyway…….as a soldier they at least have a sense of purpose, and now you want to take that away. That is why I no longer serve, because the very people I was willing to die for courageously are the same ones who snub me for being me at home. Shame on the homophobic people in the world.

      • Charles says:

        Hoggie,

        "Shame on the homophobic people in the world."

        This is a typicla knee jerk reaction to those that don't agree with LGBT life style, we must be HOMOPHOBIC. LMMFAO

    • spc Bocanegra says:

      god bless you

  26. KK-Vet-Retired says:

    Well, at first I thought all the comments were going to be anti-gay rhetoric. Glad to see there are some very sane, reasonable people who are/were in the military.

    I am a retired vet who served in one of the service bands. Let me tell you, if you want to see how well gays work in the military, put the service bands under your microscope. As you may guess, a lot of homosexuals are drawn to the arts. Most military musicians went to college for music and got to know our gay brothers and sisters who were out, and it was no big deal. There are dozens and dozens of gay musicians in the military. We know who they are and it's no big deal. I had one guy ask me in the locker room where we change into performance uniforms if I was gay because he thought I was cute. I said I wasn't but thanked him for the compliment. We are now very close friends and used to sit 2ft away from each other in our ensemble and work together every day.

    A great many gays rise to E9 because they have no children and if they have partners, their partners work hard too. They spend a lot of time at work and excel at what they do. I can think of 7 gay/lesbian E9s I know (past and present) with a combined total of over 30 MSMs and scores of other decorations. Gay musicians have gone to Iraq and Afghanistan to support troop morale. They're everywhere in the military and everywhere in society. They cannot help who they are attracted to. It's a biological thing, just like heterosexuals can't help who they are attracted to.

    Bottom line, the military is a very special, unique workplace. But it is a workplace. Discrimination should not be tolerated. You don't get to choose your skin color, gender, or nationality. You also don't get to choose your sexuality. Because if you DID get to choose, why in the world would you choose to be gay and put up with all the hatred thrown at you from very ignorant people?

    • Discrimination of gays has nothing in common with racial discrimination. Racial discrimination has a legacy in this country like no other form of discrimination. If I were a gay white male serving in the military I'd do my job the best I know how, and I would move up through the ranks. However being black or hispanic, this becomes more challenging. And if those whom you are referring to happen to be good musicians then that is great; they are good musicians because they worked at it – not because they engaged in sexual relations with the same sex!

    • It is not a biological thing and they can help who they are attracted to! And that locker room situation is going way to far and in all of the units that I served in that type of question would have led to violence and legal issues!

      • so using your logic in reverse,"Big Sarge" being straight is not a biological thing, and you CAN help who you are attracted to??? How very excellent and close mined of you to say that. Now, let me ask you this…..you believe gay people CHOOSE to be gay, correct? OK, so when did you CHOOSE to be STRAIGHT??

        • Scientifically proven, there ARE genetic factors in which might steer whom an individual might be attracted to. But in the end we all have our free agency. Just because a man might be attracted to another man does not automatically mean that a homosexual lifestyle has been chosen for him. In the end it is his own choice whether or not he acts on that attraction or not. Let's be real here; THOUSANDS of men and women who have been attracted to members of the same gender DID and DO not act on that attraction. So people who have this default attraction still have the choice to be open or closed about it.

      • diappointed says:

        Big Sarge, I suppose you know this because you are involved in some sort of scientific research that proves otherwise?? To all the other discriminatory comments, perhaps you should educate yourselves before exercising your right to free speech. Why would ANYONE choose to be "homosexual", I mean really….sit back and think about it?! Some want to bring religion into the convo, well to that I say….If the bible states that women are supposed to be with men and vice versa, and those who do otherwise will "go to hell" (that is basically what you are saying, correct?) Why would anyone choose to "go to hell"?? REALLY?? Perhaps they should not allow those in the military who hate and demoralize people who are not like they are….If that was the case alot of you wouldn't be getting that retirement check. Get over it, not everyone is just like you, not everyone was BORN just like you….Like I said we all fight for the freedom to be who we are.

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          You know what, diappointed? There are literally millions headed for hell, and every one of them by choice. God became flesh, and gave that fleshly life so that we could all have a chance to go to heaven, anyone who does not, does so by choice, now ask yourself this, WHY would they CHOOSE hell???? There is a scripture that says "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." This demonstrates the battle that we fight within ourselves. We know what is right, but we choose to do wrong. If you want to not choose hell, then you need to repent, and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins, like Acts 2:38 says. By the way, repent means to turn away from all sin, and dont turn back.

      • NotSoPrivate says:

        Your problems with violence do not apply to all. You should NOT be serving if you can't control yourself–"BIG" Sarge.

      • God made us perfect in his image. Exodus International is a great place to learn more about homosexuality and the ability to move past the choice.

      • US VETERAN says:

        NO BIG SARGE you cant help who you are attracted to, being a gay or a lesbian is a biological thing there have many studies done in the psychology world so try again!!! Who in their right mind would choose a discriminatory lifestyle over that of your so called "NORMAL" lifestyle. Its because they dont choose to love who they love! Love isnt a choice its a feeling that comes natural to ALL human beings gay or straight!!! Its a natural thing to love someone regardless of gender! Grow up and come to the NEW world!!

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          You know, I have heard of the Doctor saying, its a girl, or its a boy, or its white, or its black, but never have I heard of a doctor saying you are the proud parents of a six pound four ounce lesbian. It just doesnt happen, no matter how much you want to reason within yourself. Just because you have a "right" to do something, does not mean it is right to do it.

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          So why do you discriminate against guys who are attracted to children??!! Shouldn't we afford them equal rights too?? Come on now, this is getting rediculous. We all have an inherent knowledge of what we were created to be, but we also have an inherent desire to rebel against it. I am not saying that anyone should have less, or more rights bestowed upon them because of their rebellion against what is natural, and right, but dont come on here saying it is o.k. Like I said before, just because you have a right to do something, does not make it right to do, and deep down, we all know it is wrong, even those of you who defend it.

      • There ARE serious genetic factors involved, but you're right; in the end whether or not they act on this is ultimately their choice.

    • IMNOPREACHER says:

      If you think that you cannot choose your sexual preferance, then you must not believe in the Bible. There is scripture that speaks of "homosexual behavior" but I dont see anywhere in there where it mentions "homosexuals". The reason for that is that it is NOT a noun. There is no such thing as a "homosexual" or a "gay" or a "lesbian". Homosexuality is a practice, and yes people choose to practice it, and according to the Bible, it is an abomination to God. Now tell me this, o wise one, if practicing homosexuality is an abonimation to God, wouldn't it condemn you to hell? If people are "born that way" as they claim, then they are born predestined to go to hell, and that my friend would be a contradiction of scripture that states that God is not a respecter of persons.

      • mtnclmbrbkr says:

        Now think about the things you say…. if you claim that sexual preference is just a choice then you are lessening the importance of the concept of hetero/homo-sexual.

        Try to understand it this way–if there is "no noun for homosexual" then there cannot be a noun for heterosexual. People are not any one thing- they only choose one act — heterosexual behavior–next time they could just as easily choose homosexual behavior.

        Does this describe your experience of your sexuality? Are you making choices each time you're attracted to someone? And are you just making that choice "because the Bible tells me so."

        According to that book, homosexuality is an abomination to God but so is the eating of shellfish. Are you also on shrimping websites condemning their participation in an act which God considers "an abomination?"

        No, I think you have chosen the parts of God's word that fit your conceptualization of the World and ignored the parts that tell you to love your fellow man and to treat him the way in which you would like to be treated. This is where the Christian movement has gone wrong–you have learned to focus on the splinter while ignoring the log.

        Treat all of God's creations equally, even the ones he created whose sexuality differs from yours just as you treat the ones whose skin color differs from yours.

        • Even though I am not on the side of abolishing DADT, I really enjoyed your response to IMNOPREACHER! Using religion to substantiate one's point has an inherent fallacy!

          • IMNOPREACHER says:

            I was not using religion to substantiate a point, I was making a point with Gods word, get it straight.

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          You need to read the Bible before you start quoting it. There is no scripture that says it is an abomination to eat shellfish. In old times it was forbidden, but it was never said to be an abomination. The only references to being an abomination were made concerning wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex, and sexual behavior with the same sex, and by the way, I am not condemning anybody, we do that to ourselves.

          • deh usa ret says:

            Amen Brother the Bible does not say it is an abomination to eat shell fish, like not to eat meat of a slit hoofed animal but God said what he has made cleaned is clean indeed. God has never made homosexual behavior clean in fact he still condemns it today and that is in the new testament Believe me what he condemned thru out the bible he condemns today

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          Oh yeah, by the way, the Bible says "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is grown he will not depart from it". Sexual behavior is learned, and yes heterosexual behavior is a choice, but we are all born with the inherent desire to do evil, and rebel against what is right, it is our parents responsibility to teach us right from wrong, and to teach us to do right. If you teach your child that homosexual behavior is acceptible, then they grow up thinking, well Mom and Dad says it is o.k. so who are you to tell me it is wrong? By simple interpolation, we can surmize that if you don't train up a child right, it won't go right. Thank God he forgives us of all our iniquities, and by the way, just because I tell you that Gods word says you are doing wrong, does not mean that I don't love you, I love all of mankind, but that doesn't make what they are doing any less wrong.

        • Preacher, yousee, They have adopted the education of men, They haven't relized what you are saying, because they are caught up with the ideal that everything they are taught in the education system is fact and truth, my question is this, if that is so, why are the books reprinted and updated? No he has not chose words in the Bible, he quated what it say's , but you don't like what is say's you are rebelling, The truth will set you free. you see all of those word you use describing man came from man, not God. keep believing what the so call elites tell you, you will find your self in trouble.

      • Thinking it is possible to change your physical attractions is an obvious sign of ones homosexual thoughts… I’d bet the person who says such things even condems homosexuality as “evil.” LOL.. Those poor, poor, confused people.. Be who you are, who you want to be.. Don’t let old twisted perverted dogmas get in your way.. And down with DADT… I mean If I was allowed to talk openly about my girlfriend ,while I was serving , then i should’ve been allowed to do the same for my boyfriend…

        It’s only fair.

        oh and Ps… Thankfuly we’ve also evolved past “no women and no blacks allowed” as well, can you imagine the type of stigmas those two had to bust through? Bet the people opposed to those were just as insecure. :,(

      • ok so by your logic, since you say homosexuality is a practice and people chose to practice it…then heterosexuality is a PRACTICE and YOU CHOOSE to practice it….??

        • IMNOPREACHER says:

          You are totally correct! I choose to do as God intended me to do. My mother was married twice, then DECIDED she wanted to be with a woman instead. A few years later, she DECIDED that she was tired of that lifestyle, and went back to men. You came along too late to try to convince me that it is not a choice. My mother is not a "lesbian" she is a human being just like all of us, who is tempted of satan to rebel against what we all know is right. There are thousands of cases just like my Mothers, how do scientists explain that? Scientists need to quit trying to disprove Gods word, they may rationalize it away, but they can not disprove the truth.

      • God created man and woman perfect in his image – everything we do is a choice

    • imnopreacher says:

      The scriptures also state that in the end times that what was right will be wrong, and what was wrong will be right. A girl that I know asked the teacher at her School to tell one of the other girls to mind her foul language around her, as it offended her. The teacher told her "there is nothing I can do about it." Another person I know had his child suspended from School because he was telling the other kids about Jesus. The way I see it, the end times are here, and people need to recognize it, and turn back to God.

      • And eating shell fish is ok now too!! Oh no! It IS end times!!

        You totally avoided his point because it made you sound even more ridiculous.

      • DEH USA RET says:

        AMEN God is the same yesterday, day and forever he changes not and what he did in the past he WILL do Again wake up America

    • being gay is a choice. I know.

      God made man in His image and took woman out of man. He did not put the woman back in man. Some men think they have a woman trapped in them. Well Eeve is not trapped in you man, God took that woman out of man when He took the rib out of Adam.

      chew on that one.

    • That's real nice for the band but the band is not a combat unit.

      Let's see how this fares in an Infantry platoon.

      • NotSoPrivate says:

        I can GUARANTEE there are HOMOSEXUALS in INFANTRY UNITS EVERYWHERE. What does your ability to run, shoot, KILL, evade, protect, and just SERVE in general have to do with WHO YOU SLEEP WITH?

        These attitudes make me WISH I could "Gay Out" of the military. I'm sickened by my "coworkers" who are basically telling me that my gay battle buddies, even though trained and tested EXACTLY THE SAME are LESS than their straight counterparts.

        I can tell you that I would NEVER leave a fallen comrade–and neither would they–our Army Values are the same. We don't pick and choose. We're ARMY STRONG. And we're only that strong TOGETHER.

    • La_Maripoza says:

      Thanks, nice post. I agree with most of what you say.
      Please don't stereotype us.
      While I do love the arts, this are the things I excelled in the military: Explosives and demolitions, sniper, martial arts, small arms expert.
      I have a box full of awards and decorations that would probably not get me a chalupa at the local taqueria and I'm as gay as a butterfly on a morning glory.

    • the military is not a job in the traditional sense; it is not a work place; lives are on the line every day. show me your bank teller who faces that.

    • m richards says:

      so now you are saying that homosexuals are better than heterosexuals? get real. sure there are some hardworking gays, just as there are some hard working straights. sexual orientation has nothing to do with your work ethic.

      one time, in band camp…. sorry couldn't resist… ;)

    • your statement was one of the best I've read, about choices, I agree there are somethngs in which we do not have choices but there are some in which we do. And who we choose to love is one of them, example we may like our own race or gender, but we have a choice in who we pick love. there are people who change genders or races depending on who they are attracted to. But when was the last time you seen someone change color, or sex just because they felt like it. another example you can choose to love someone or not, so you always have a choice in whom you love. But please remember you exist because of two opposite sexes coming together, which the way God planed it, not man. So I ask you if I said and believe that I was born a killer should I have the right to kill legally? By the way I have served nearly 30 years with no problems.

      • If you believed you were born a killer, you could join the military and then yes, you could legally kill. AND you wouldn't be the first person to join the military just to shoot down some of America's enemies. I've been there, I've seen it.

    • prove they didn't choose it God don't make mistakes people do

    • IMNOPREACHER says:

      Another thing KK, do they have you convinced that they cant help themselves when they wiggle their rear when they walk? Were they born with a defect that makes them walk that way? How about the lisp when they talk, were they born with something wrong with their mouth? They really got you buffaloed.

      • Joshua Price says:

        You're kidding yourself if you think that all homosexuals walk funny, or speak with a lisp. Anyway, none of this has anything to do with what laws apply to the military and to homosexuals.

        You keep talking about religion, but you've forgotten two things. First, not everyone follows your religion, and Christianity isn't even the largest one.
        Second, the point of the separation of church and state is that it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or not, laws are made according to society as a whole and the protection of its members (all of them, not just you) laws are not made according to what some prejudiced, fearful bigot believes god wants.

        It's a good thing too.

        • Joshua Price says:

          Oh, and IMNOPREACHER? It seems to me that you are characterizing homosexuals as lisping so you won't have to face the fact that you shower with at least one or two of them every day. They are there, though you may not see them.

    • Jack Seabourn says:

      bull crap

  27. WHO WOULD WEAR THE PANTS IN THIS MARRIAGE. OR, NO PANTS AT ALL.

    • La_maripoza says:

      does your wife know you are saying you wear the pants in the house?

    • Roguestella says:

      You are clueless, sir.

    • How would you suffer from any other family's housing benefits. For example, A single Senior Chief with 3 children would move into base housing. There's no regulation preventing her Nannie from living in her home, to care for her children, while the Chief is deployed on or off shore. This has been working just fine, even with previous homosexual discrimination regulations since World War I. There are so many legal ways to live like every other family on base.
      If I were still active, I'd never live on base. Working 12 hours a day was more than I could stomach of the ignorant, homophobic rednecks. Regulations purpose is to make us the best we can be, in order to protect, & preserve our Country and it's Constitution. The original document never mention race, sex, religion or preference of any of these descriptions. While I was on active duty Navy, most of my gay friends who were in the Army, got married to someone who wanted off base housing allowance, too. The Navy allowed E-4 and higher to live off base. Oh, my gosh, is that discrimination? No, Donald, it's regulations. Get over it. We have ! We've been playing the discrimination game for a long, long time baby. Just keep on doing your job as well and professionally as possible.
      If you aren't gay you will not be attractive to any gay men. Most of them are
      much more attractive than straight men. Sorry, but true.

  28. DO NOT REPEAL. This is about the military not being the social integrator for society. Stop forcing this down the military's throat because you can't get society to pony up. I do not relish the time when pictures of two guys dancing at the military ball appear on the headlines. The DADT policy works so why are we changing it? Because you can't hold hands with your significant other? What about the transgender issue. No one is addressing this. Will Tri-Care now cover sex-change operations? Will be have enlisted gay community centers? Officer gay clubs? Where does it end? There is enough socialization of our society, leave the military alone.

  29. Don Ellwood says:

    If the miltary since the founding of our nation as christians forbid those who are homosexual or lesbian from seving in th armed forces, they had a reason for doing it. Why is it so important that the Gay community now think its so important to serve in the military now except to advance their agenda. Why is it so important to be accepted as "normal" ? It seems like tey want this issue to be "in your face" whether we straights like it or not !

    • First off, this is not a Christian nation. This is a secular nation (and more importantly, FOUNDED as a secular nation) that happens to contain many Christians. Secondly, anybody who actually followed the teachings of Jesus Christ would never look down on another human being because of their sexual orientation, which most scientists agree is established by the age of 5.

      As for a gay "agenda," the only "agenda" they have is to be treated equally. Do not confuse equality with special treatment.

      • If you know of married people having affairs REPORT IT, that is just as illegal under the UCMJ!!

        And the homosexual solider can't cheat on their spouse because the term 'spouse' does not apply–and according to the laws of the land at the moment marriage is NOT a right..heck according to the laws of this land even being born isn't a RIGHT..

        God says it's an abomination…and Jesus would say "GO AND SIN NO MORE!!' Just as He did to the prostitute and others..

    • What is your Agenda Don? Just because you were not ridiculed for being a Hetero, does not mean they should be. More people have died in the name sake of Christianity and all other wars combined, all the way before the Crusades.

      There is no Agenda, no more the Lobbyists for anything else. People are people and who are you, who am I, who is anyone, to tell what is natural to them, this is not a choice. Who would Choose to live with the ridicule so many have from young until today. NONE.

    • mtnclmbrbkr says:

      Your appeal to tradition fails when you look at so many other things which we "were founded on." Did they also "have a reason for": SLAVERY, discrimination against the POOR (you needed land to vote), BLACKS (voting in 1870), WOMEN (voting in 1920), 18-20 YEAR OLDS (voting in 1971).

      Oh yeah, and the "military since the founding of our nation as christians forbid" Blacks and Women from serving as well.

      Was there a reason for that as well? What was it? How did that work out? Should those two groups also not have "advanced their agenda?"

    • Not so. The ban only came into being during WWI and was not enforced until WWII. Before that our country fought and won the Revolutionary, 1812, Mexican, Civil, Indian and Spanish/American wars without this dumb restriction.

    • La_maripoza says:

      You are living in a myth, our nation the founding fathers and nation are not Christian, this has already been established.
      BTW, since you may seek enlightment from your holy book; look up where the macho king David, the slayer of giants, said to this guy; "I Am distressed for you my brother Jonathan. You have been very pleasant to me.
      Your love to me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women."
      2nd Sam. 1:26

  30. Fact is both lifestyles are a security risk to secrecy of military information. So with that in mind opening up to gays and lesbos is just a wider gap of security risks to deal with. If you want to be gay keep it to yourself. Serve your country quietly and move on. If you want to be militant in the military about it, then find another job. The new military is not as stable as when it had standards that fit its core mission. Defend and serve the Constitution of the USA.

    • Let me get this clear. You think our military should kick people out for being openly gay, correct? Doesn't this make gays more likely to be blackmailed? DADT is a huge security risk. Let gays serve openly and their fear of blackmail vanishes. Resulting in more security.

      The real reason some so-called heterosexual men fear allowing gays to openly be in the military is you're afraid they'll show themselves to be better soldiers than you are. Your manliness is tied in with telling everyone what a good Marine or whatever you are. News Flash – many women are already better soldiers than you are. Live with it.

    • Torquer2: I would hate to disappoint you but the State Department 40+ years ago stated: As long as gay people are allowed to be out they are no bigger security risk than straight individuals.

      • undressedemperor says:

        Wow. You quote a State Department document from over 40 years ago? First, the State Dept and good security have never been synonymous. Second, 40+ years ago was prior to several now-infamous gay spies/traitors were "exposed:" PFC Manning, Guy Burgess, Anthony Blunt, Donald Maclean, John Cairncross, Michael Straight, and Whittaker Chambers, to name a few.

    • Please explain how an openly gay/lesbian service member would be a risk any more than any other member?

    • sstarss44 says:

      Graet way to put it!!!!!!

    • La_maripoza says:

      Torque, been there done that. BTW, if you feel squeemish (phobic) about it, you find another job.

      • undressedemperor says:

        ^ Standard answer: "You're just a homophobe!"

        Followed closely by, "I'll bet you're a racist sexist religious bigot, too!"

    • Amen. That's putting it all in a nutshell. If gays and lesbos really want to serve,
      they can do it without being open about it. Boy I can just see all the legal
      cases and the disruption this will cause if the DADT is dropped. Can you
      imagine a gay or lesbo couple attending some social at one of the on base
      service clubs. They start dancing together and kissing each other. Someone
      will pass a remark and b4 you know it RIOT. That's just one scenario. Then
      of course this will trigger the ACLU to start all kinds of law suits. Get a grip
      people the Military is not a democracy. Drives me nuts when all these
      politicians want to change the military and haven't a clue what military life is all
      about. All for the sake of a few more votes. 26yr Air Force Vet
      t

    • Honorable Vet says:

      No problem. If you want to be straight, keep that to yourself too. No more talking about what you did with your family over the weekend, no pictures of your spouse or children, nothing. Just keep your mouth shut and do your job like all of the gay soldiers have been doing since the start of military service in this country. If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to go get a new job as well. In case you haven't noticed, both gay and straight servicemembers have been defending and serving the Constitution of the United States. After all, when you raise your right hand and promise to do so everyone is held to the same standard…not just the straight people.

  31. CW03 Lucky says:

    You mean IF you can get base housing. Get on the waiting list.

  32. There are several 'morally fit' issues that need to be corrected or excused now that we are already accepting this morally unfit lifestyle as morally fit.

  33. To all of you who are bashing gays serving in the military because you "don't want to shower next to someone who thinks you are attractive" or that none of it makes sense;
    Don't flatter yourself. Just because someone may be gay, does not mean they want anything to do with you. Believing every gay wants you is as stupid as believing that every person that you are attracted too wants you. While I agree that living arrangements will take a new turn, I also strongly believe that there will be no problems in letting LGBT serve next to you. In today's military, it's all voluntary, which means that those people, gay or otherwise, volunteered to put their life on the line and serve next to you. There is absolutely no reason to bash on those willing to do just as much as you. Not to mention, this country is one of the few left on this planet that discriminates within the military on the LGBT population; for a country and its "patriots" to be so proud of equal rights and how far we have come in discrimination and freedom, this attitude sure says otherwise. The Constitution was written in that all men and women be treated equally. The simple fact that the people that represent us as politicians would argue against that simple Constitutional right, of which this entire country was founded on, appalls me.

  34. Does it really matter, who defends this country–or your life!!! Come on people! We need to stop losing good quality soldiers, with necessary vital skills for protecting this country, to the likes of the outdated, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"! Anyone–and I mean anyone, willing to fight, and willing to die, for the United States of America, has my respect, and should have your respect too!!!

  35. Which historic homosexual couple will demand and receive the first military marriage with full military honors at the U.S. Naval and Military Academies chapels? I doubt an Islamic chaplain will perform the ‘holy’ rite. Will swords be part of that auspicious event?

  36. We are about to lose our retiree medical benefits, that we all earned, and the only concern at the top of the heap is

    “can homos get married, and live in on-base housing?” Give me a break. It might not always have been “don’t ask”, but it was always “don’t tell”, and “don’t get caught!” When one of these individuals is “found out” aboard a Naval vessel at sea, that individual has to be removed immediately for the sake of good order and discipline, at cost to the Navy, and grief to the already stressed out Commanding Officer. They all knew the rules when they joined. Now after 6 tours of faithful and honorable service, I am informed that my benefits might be cut, while the subject is can homos serve openly and receive benefits? Give me a break!

    • Fast Attack Sailor says:

      thats funny because myself being an E-6 just finished my second sea tour aboard a fast attack submarine and we had 10 out sailors on board. 1 officer, 2 chiefs and 7 E-6 and belows. Our captain did not immediately remove them, and when he heard word of them being harrassed or if he ever overheard someone make a homophobic remark he would verbally repremand that bigot on the spot. Being in the slient service I have gone weeks with out a shower, and by god when we could I didnt give a shit who saw me walking around in the breeze… i was going to scrub my PAN ( pits a$$ and nuts). PERIOD. We never once in 4 years while I was on board had any accidents where a homosexual made any passes or attempts at a straight sailor. Quite the contrary all the problems we had were with single or married men who were caught with prostitutes at home and abroad. I for one am tired of the Far Right trying to push their "Christian Agenda" on those of us who have different cultural and religious views. How about we kick out christians who push their views on everyone else. That only seems fair.

    • Veteran Navy Wife says:

      AMEN as a wife and mother of sailors and soldiers, I can assure you I am more concerned about the loss of benefits WE EARNED and are being subjected to having cut than I am about who can serve in the military flaunting their sexuality. Pack it in private and protect military order while preserving benefits thank you very much.

    • spidermom says:

      trust me, the gay retirees worry about their medical benefits too. When I was in basic I thought gays weren't allowed because of the blackmail factor. If you can be blackmailed you are a security risk. That made since so I came out to my family. I couldn't be blackmailed. If you are an out gay the blackmail factor is gone. But some of you think gays should lie and deny that they are gay so they are being set up to be blackmailed.

  37. I don't think it was intended as a discriminatory comment. As an 11 yr veteran who spent most of my active duty time with a family (3 kids), I can attest to the fact it's extremely difficult to get into base housing.
    I think the point was this:
    Most married soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors have children & more often than not, they have more than one. From experience, I can tell you it doesn't much matter where you're stationed, finding a place to rent that can adequately house a family is almost impossible, even more so if you want a rental you can afford.
    So, the answer to this issue obviously would be to get into base housing.
    Last I knew, to get into base housing as an E-3 or E-4, waiting lists can range from 12-36 months. NOT having kids does not keep a married soldier, Marine etc from being eligible for housing. If, all of a sudden, gay married service members are eligible for base housing because they can claim their partner as a dependent…then think of what that does to waiting times for those with CHILDREN. Military kids have a hard enough life, why should they have the added stress from their parents of not being able to afford decent housing because the waiting list just doubled when (if) gay servicemembers became eligible for housing?

    • Sheri, gay people have children too.

      • undressedemperor says:

        A few of them do, through adoption, like that wonderful example of motherhood Rosie O'Donnell. /sarc off. Stating facts about waiting times for base housing is not discriminatory. Screaming "discrimination!" every time someone disagrees with your opinion is discriminatory.

        • I have to comment Undressedemperor, Many gay families have biological children. Many have been in heterosexual relationships and have created life. So I would be cautious on the overtly ignorant and mean comments.

    • To be honest I don't think most of them would want to live on the base because how they think people would feel about them been there or just will find it easier if they dont have any kids to live off base. Me personally been a mother knowing how hard it is get in base housing believe that they should do it differently all together. I'm not saying the a married coiple with no kids can't stay on base but they should be put behind the family with children. Ask yourself. Who needs more of the space? Married no kids or with kids? If a gay couple have children then yes they should be able to live on base.

    • Submariner says:

      I lived in base housing when I was married to my wife with her son, it took me all of 2 days to get into base housing. Oh, and when I changed commands and moved 1800miles away, they had a house ready for us when we showed up. Oh and after I was divorced I moved in to base housing with 2 other single guys from my command at that time, it took us all of about 2 days as well. Unless you live in a remote location OCONUS or a tiny base in the middle of nowhere USA then I have never met a single family/bachelor who had to wait any where near 1 or 2 months LET ALONE 12-36 months.

      • You got lucky to get into housing that quickly, most housing I lived in took months to years to get into, You must have been air force, they seem to have an over abundance of housing available. The Navy and Marine Corps have trouble with housing their people. In Rhode Island it took us almost 2 years to get into housing, in VA it took us 9 months and that was with children in both locations, in fact the house in RI took the longest and we were on the emergency list as we could not afford to live there and our apartment had been condemned, we ended up living in a 1 bedroom place until housing came available, that was with 2 children.

        You may not have had those issues, but many of us have.

      • that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. when i arrived at ft polk in la, i had to rent an apartment downtown while i was on the waiting list for 6 months….

        and the quality of the apartment was what most would consider substandard. but it was the best that we could find that was in our pricerange.

      • Then you have never been assigned to Camp Pendleton.. bc average wait there is about 6 months…

    • ron Miller says:

      Your right, you may have to wait…no one told you to have children. Oh wow, what if those evil gays have children? Oh know, they certainly should not live on post with the straight families. Really? You people are just plain ignorant!!! Let's kick all the white poele out of housing, and anyone who has more than one child…does that sound like the country you would die for…equlity for all!!!

    • Joshua Price says:

      You are right that it is hard to get into base housing. But you are criminalizing gays for it, when it's actually a problem of supply. It's never a good idea to respond to a problem by stopping something else. That would be like outlawing rocks because one was thrown at you. Focus on the real problem.

    • I've been married to a soldier for ten years Sheri. We don't have any children. Are you saying I should not be on the housing list either just because I made a choice not to have children? Military families deserve housing whether they have children or not. It does not matter who has more dependants.

    • If you can't afford em, don't have em. You should be thinking about whether or not you can afford to have a child BEFORE you have one not AFTER and then make DUE with what you can. PLAN it. They call that FORWARD thinking.

    • Another ignorant discriminatory idiot.

    • I have been a army child and i love it and being gay i think nothing in life is easy so why should we make it easy for military just so gay's cant get housing and rights. Also i am joining so suck that if u got something to say also gays can adopt and have a life with kids to and raise them just as well.

  38. RNeal16159 says:

    Would somebody please remind DoD that future military members can only be generated by heterosexual couples? And while you're at it, ask them why absolutely ANYONE'S sexual preferences should be given special consideration by our federal government. Particularly where our all volunteer military is concerned.

    Homosexuals who feel compelled to make everyone around them aware of their SEXUAL PREFERENCES above and beyond everything else cannot possibly be capable of focusing their attention on missions that either succeed or fail based on situational awareness.

    I have no problem with DADT. I think it's a good policy. Particularly given the fact that no other segment of our military will ever feel the need to make the most intimate part of their lives a focal point of their service to their country.

    • mtnclmbrbkr says:

      It's nice to hear someone who actually believes what they are saying. This is why I am excited about your plan for getting all those military dependents removed from the system.

      I mean, you said the federal government shouldn't give preference to ANYONE'S sexual preference and their recognizing all those heterosexual couplings is certainly evidence for them doing just that. And all those benefits which are only paid to heterosexuals (Housing, Medical, moving costs, etc.) should be discontinued immediately.

      And the official Military policy should be that service members are forbidden from ever mentioning a significant other. That way we are fair to EVERYONE. Besides, just the mentioning of a significant other is detrimental to military missions since they "cannot possibly be capable of focusing their attention" while talking about a partner.

      This plan is certainly much better than the current DOD policy which singles out a group to discriminate against. We want the military to be a fair place for all who choose to serve. And keeping homosexual's descriptions of their sexual activities should be just as much a priority as it is to keep heterosexual's descriptions.

      Heterosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else. They should have the right to love and date whomever they wish, but should not be allowed to tell anyone or declare that love publicly. "DADT is a good policy." It is our application which is flawed–it must be applied equally to all sexual preferences.

      The idea that heterosexuals are currently "making the most intimate part of their lives a focal point of their service" is appalling. In a country where equality is to be defended we must demand equality in our military.

    • La_maripoza says:

      RN, based on your first line; should heterosexual couples who can't or won't reproduce be banned from serving?
      One omer time, it is not a "sexual preference."
      "Above and beyond everything else cannot possibly be capable of focusing their attention on missions…" this conjecture has no basis, Try to come up with a valid point.

    • Marine1952 says:

      Amen Brother!

  39. grambadger says:

    Any gay man has the right to marry a woman, same as I have. Besides, there used to be rules requiring approval from a CO for one to marry? or have those day gone? First shirts and chaplains, not congress, ought to be making policy in these matters, just as Plato recorded that each family has a wise old aunt whose job is the regulation of family life, and that this job does not belong to the state.

  40. Wait until we start with the mandatory long, drawn out "Prevention of Homophobia" training.

    Its funny how we spend more time on this type of crap than we do at the rifle range.

    • chrisarmy says:

      Couldn't agree more Mark! It's not enough we have to sit through Suicide Prevention, Equal Opportunity, Sexual Harrassment, and every other training they can think of to make us more politically correct. The last thing I want to do is sit through any kind of annual training about homosexual anything. This whole issue is taking more time away from the mission then it's worth. I have no problem serving with homosexuals, but I don't need to know that you are and we just do our jobs from there.

  41. SIC !!

  42. Just want to post an example …
    When units are returned from war… just families get to meet them….
    gay lifetime partners are excluded.
    If mail to partners is read or phone conversations recorded… it can be used against them.
    If you can talk about your wife and shy she annoys you…Why cant a gay soldier talk as freely and not worry about being discharged?

  43. Being Gay is environmental or how they are raised as a child having strong male or female role models. It is a lifestyle NOT biological. Everyone has the ability to make choices. They CHOOSE to be gay. Why is it so important for them to come "out of the closet " ? It is guilt of their lifestyle. They expect everyone to accept their behavior knowing it is against all natural laws of normalcy and procreation. When is the last time you heard of someone who is "STRAIGHT" say , I am a HETEROSEXUAL" ???? I f you want to be GAY, keep it to yourself, because I really don't care one way or another. I am tired of hearing about it.

    • GreenWoolyHat says:

      Being Gay is environmental or how they are raised as a child having strong male or female role models. It is a lifestyle NOT biological. Everyone has the ability to make choices. They CHOOSE to be gay
      ***********************************************************************************
      What a load of ignorant elephant dung!!

    • You and the rest of the under-educated redneck wannabe believers have some serious personal issues. Perhaps you're fighting some demons yourself? Unless you are gay yourself, how can you possibly state that the lifestyle is "chosen"? Did you choose to be heterosexual?

      • Yes !! I also had a strong role model , My FATHER.!! Talk to many gays and you will find they were screwed up as a child or had an abusive relationship with a member of the opposite sex. They were not BORN THAT WAY .

    • I will give you my house and my retirement pay if you can become gay for one week. I don't mean fake it, I mean really be gay.

    • La_maripoza says:

      fornth time, it is not a "life choice"
      Come out of the caves.
      BTW how long have you had heterosexual tendencies?
      Have you saught help for that?

    • fyi…studies show that being gay is not a choice…a straight man and a gay man were put in a room hooked up to machines that read the reactions of the brain…the area of the brain that lights up when you see a person that you are attracted was completely different…a very attravtive woman was brought into the room and the straight mans brain reacted greatly while the gay mans did not…then an attractive man was brought into the room and the gay mans brain reacted while the straight mans did not…so do you really think that someone would choose a life to be harrassed and put down by people like you…dont throw stones from glass houses mister…cause people could easily tell you to that it is disgusting to marry your own sister…just saying…so do some research about what you are arguing so you dont end up looking like a jackass

    • Novacbub63 says:

      gary..stop flattering yourself…your letting the world know just how niave you can be if you think that falt occurs because of the lack of a strong male or female role duing childhood..please get a life…

  44. I think we should go back to pre-don’t ask don’t tell. Marriage is between one man and one women so not benefits should be allowed. Sodomy is against the UCMJ so serve and let the regulations remove homosexuals. If I’m offended by openly homosexual people will my complaint get heard, will my report be acted on? Just because the rest of the world has openly gay people serving doesn’t make it right.

    • Marine1952 says:

      Yup! There ain't nothing like letting the whole world know that the strongest and most feared military can be forced to change their laws to suit a handful of special interest jack***es. Get back in the closet!

    • Novacbub63 says:

      So SDP are you trying to say that sodomy doesn't occure between hetrosexuals? Wake up and smell the coffee if you do! Get yourself a life!

  45. They should get rid of Don't ask Don't Tell if only for the purpose a carreer soldier does not lose his investment in the military. A persons sex or sexual preference should not matter if they can do the job! As far as spousal benefits for gays goes…. Unless there is a Federal rule change they will not be entitled to housing etc… Some one wrote asking about adopted children? If there are adopted children than they should receive dependent benefits for the children only… Guess that opens up the housing argument again! Seems like this issue is like a merry-go-round… Round and Round and Round we Go! Where is stops nobody knows?

  46. I don't think it is right for two gay females or two gay men in the military to get to sleep in the same quarter's together ,if they are lover's.then that would give the right for straight women and men to have there lover's ,if they are both in the military. to sleep in the same quarter's also. and no I would not want to shower in front of a gay person,especially if I knew they were looking for a mate,or had sex on there mind.right's are right's on both side's but there has to be a line somewhere.

    • I wouldn't worry about that Chara, you're not that attractive!!!!

    • La_maripoza says:

      its not about finding sexual partners.
      So it seems you feel more comfortable showering with your macho guys; what does it say about you? would you bend down to pick up the soap in the shower with one of your macho buddies?

  47. If we repeal DADT, then how about adopting co-ed barracks, and latrines? Makes sense; that way all servicemembers are treated exactly the same.

    • Well then, it would only be fair if every one had to live there, married or single, officer or enlisted.

    • chrisarmy says:

      I agree PATRIOT, I am a woman currently serving in the Army and to be 100% honest I would be more comfortable sharing living quarters/latrines with heterosexual men than with homosexual women.

  48. Major Retired says:

    Do NOT repeal the DADT law. Fact is, the military does not want or need "Abnormal" in the military. Homosexuality /lesbianism is by definition ABNORMAL. These people should be seeking medical treatment NOT military service. What side of their physic will emerge in combat???? No, as a commander I don’t need abnormal soldiers. Combat is physically and mentally trying enough for “normal” people let alone the added burden of a confused mind and body. Do not jeopardize our military capabilities with abnormal bodies and minds.

    • Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? How did someone of such intellectual lacking as yourself ever get a commission? What a douchetard.

    • As an American citizen I am greatful for your service to our country and for protecting our freedom, but please do not spread hate based on an out-dated notion or encourage the withholding of the same freedoms, you protected, to someone just because they are not exactly like you.

      You do realize that the APA removed homosexuality from the DSM a LONG time ago. Their reason for removing it is because it WAS NOT abnormal. it is not abnormal because it does not decrease, inhibit, or cause harm to themself or their functioning within society as a whole. They decided the only harm caused was BY OTHERS to the homosexual individual. There have also been more recent studies that have found genetic predispositions for homosexuality. Also I think the word you were looking for was psyche, not physic.

    • Sir,
      You are an idiot. If you truly believe that homosexuals should seek help, and not military service, then perhaps you are the one who needs to seek some form of mental stability. Hate to break it to you, but there are far more homosexuals currently serving in the military than you have any idea about. And as for the added "confusion" in a field of battle, go ahead and take an anonymous poll of how many service men and women under your command are gay. You might just shit your pants when you see the results. So those men and women are still putting their lives on the line and serving under such a disgrace of a leader as yourself, even though you talk so much trash about them. Go play in traffic

    • i didnt know that they promote stupid people in the military…i mean i would not serve under you at all…i dont find it possible to get anything done to protect and serve this country when your commanding officer is an idiot and dumb as a door knob

  49. Oh, geez, grow up. Homosexual society? REALLY?? That's like saying Jewish, Black, Muslim or female society – pull your head out of the void and realize homosexuals are only a fraction of overall society, and entitled to same rights as anyone else.

    As I see it, they join the service anyway, having to live in secret – and pay taxes just like you and I – vowing to defend a country that treats them like second-class citizens.

    Perhaps you need to wake up and realize heterosexuals and homosexuals really are not any different the quality they bring to this country, and this military, when held to the same standard.

    • I agree we must realize these people are sick and they should be treated as such.

    • Militaryman says:

      "heterosexuals and homosexuals really are not any different" .. HUH??? Truly you jest! Please don't tell me that my wife and I are the same as gays!

  50. In my view, anyone may live their life as they choose, and rightfully so. Now when the living of that life by anyone, interferes with my ability to live my life as is my right, then we Have An Issue.

    Should the present DADT policy be repealed, what impact shall it have on the Non-Homosexual personnel of our country's military? Equally important to note here, how would the repeal of DADT affect any and all Homosexual personnel presently serving, or those who desire to serve? My question of all the Homosexual types is, are you fully aware that you may be placing yourselves in a dire position, have you thought of this? In my view, the Homosexual population of our country, is merely being used by the Liberal minded political types, for their personal gain.

  51. VoixVelour says:

    It is pretty obvious these posts are "banked." In favor of the repeal of DADT.
    Brevity doesn't lend to sensitivity nor cogent and informed commentary in response to obviously "organized" participation.

  52. James F. Poe says:

    A couple of comments from 1993 Clinton attempt to remove the ban seem appropriate here:

    Former Commandant of the Marine Corps, General Barrow, called lifting the ban “one of the cruelest, most ill-advised, despicable acts perpetrated on an institution that has a certain purity to it.”

    Deputy Chaplain for the Marine Corps, Father Eugene Gomulka: “I seriously question that there are sufficient numbers of clergy and recruits from those few religious bodies that condone homosexual conduct to man an all volunteer force.”

    • General Barrow and his ilk fade into history, as do all who fail to learn, evolve, and coexist. Repeal of DADT will be a non-event, and the ignorance and unfounded fear will subside. Clergy and their prosthelytizing create more distraction to combat effectiveness than anything else I have witnessed, and have no place in our military, or any other governing body for that matter. Our forefathers intended a secular government, and it's high-time people did their homework. And quickly, before religious zealots succeed in their efforts to rewrite history…

  53. I don't care who you sleep with, but I care about our country's defense. So, when a national emergency occurs that requires the draft……which of the male gays in a couple will be called to serve? Can either one claim, as in a heterosexual marriage with a female, that only one serves? What if one is disabled, but the other male is capable of serving? Can the healthy one opt out of the draft? What about a male couple that adopts children? Will they claim that one male must stay out of the service to care for the child? These questions need to be addressed before anything changes.

    • La_maripoza says:

      you already have that answer. In a heterosexual marriage, are you saying the man has priority?
      Careful how you answer that.

      • I am saying that the law still requires every male to register for the draft. The male's only priority in this case is determined by the laws on the books. Females are not required to register even though many females volunteer, and make excellent soldiers, pilots, sailors. I figure that my wife can out shoot you on a pistol range, but she never had to register for the draft. The questions I raised have to do with two males having an obligation to serve. More discussion is warranted on the questions raised.

  54. I totally support the repeal of DADT. Served as an officer in the U.S. Army for over 10 years and knew many gay/lesbians in all enlisted/officer/general ranks. Was never an issue. Cultural norms are once again moving appropriately toward inclusion. THIS has been the history of the United States and reflects the intent of the Constitution. Interestingly, out of 26 countries that participate in NATO militarily , 22 of them support the right for openly gay/lesbian citizens to serve in their military. This includes Britain, France, Spain, Japan, Israel, Italy, Ireland, Peru, Australia, Germany and Russia. China and the United States are the only two prominent countries who fail to do so. Their social inclusion made NO impact on military readiness. Fear-based exclusion has failed to manifest any impact on functional reality. Historical cultural viewpoints on this issue in America are being replaced with new inclusive generations and will invitably win out in the end. That is the history of America. Those who choose to foster fear-based viewpoints will represent a minority within society.

  55. Stop using the crappy argumetn that Spain, France, UK, etc. etc. etc. all have gays in their military. Which country supports all of those other countries. None of them are worth a nickle without the US backing them up. DADT works as obviously stated by 'KK-Vet-Retired' and 'Barbwire' among others. You want to serve, serve, just keep it to yourself and stop trying to put the issue into everyone elses face. All who think this is 'hate' talking are sorely mistaken. This is about preserving an institution and way of life that still stands for something. You want to openly serve as a gay in the military, move to Canada, Spain, Denmark or any other those other countries that will welcome you with open arms. For those of you who are gay and have served honorably in the military without rebuke because you kept your private life private, what were you not able to do that the repeal of DADT will allow you to do? The answer to this question should determine the repeal of DADT.

    • La_maripoza says:

      "crappy argumetn? your eloquence is overwhelming – if you have phobia of serving withe the GLBT, you should move.

  56. Big Sarge says:

    Hello david, did any superior or subordinate know about your sexual orientation prior to retirement? How do you feel about an openly gay Marine?

  57. Ken McManaman says:

    No way with this economy!

  58. kevin hinson says:

    my personal thought is the dadt polocy should stand but with some revisions being gay should not net you a discharge it should clearly state that as with hetrosexuals a degree of privacy must be maintained in my expereince the dadt policy has been manipulated by cowards trying to get out of military service or wartime service by pretending to be gay. the figures given of acual dadt violations that are acually true may be fractional instead of whole and also accordance with the spousal policy the term marriage started in the biblical sense a union before god and man i do think gay marriage is a direct deviance from the acual definition of marriage, therefore because it is not an acual union in either sense the gay spouse benifits should be just as limited as the girlfriend or boyfriend's of a hetrosexual soldier furthermore as we all know favoritisim is not part of the us military or the united states we all have an equal stake here

    • I am sure that in your world having seperate water fountains etc. for blacks and whites would be acceptable as well? Oh and don't forget to tell your wife to get back in the kitchen cause thats what she does best!

      • kevin hinson says:

        ok genuis i have risked my own life for many different nationalities a human being is a human being to me be them straight or gay white black or what have you clearly you have not thoughly understood what i was saying and you clearly dont see that while there is bad parts in the dadt polocy there is also parts that do protect the rights of gay service members and the parts that protect thier rights need to stand and the crack about my wife is very unappreciated and she is is my partner in everything just because one belives in god does not mean they are racist or gay bashers.

  59. As a former Inspector General NCO, I spent the majority of my two years [7 out of 10 cases] chasing down Soldiers [male and female] who were derelict in providing support for their spouses. The females were just as bad if not worse than the male service members for neglecting their legal dependents. This included support money, ID cards, housing when a Soldier and spouse were separated, food money, etc. At the present the military can only enforce that the married Soldier provide about 50% of his/her BAH until a court order specifies differently. I am absolutely thankful that I retired before this policy is repealed because not one military regulation is currently prepared to deal with this issue. As soon as you allow openly gay Soldiers to serve, then you are going to have to explain why they can serve, but are not allowed to receive BAH, Housing, money for food, etc. in the same forms as their heterosexual counerparts.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Thanks top, good point – yes some of the bugs would have to be worked out of the system.
      Like when females were denied same opportunities as males and therefore passed on promotions, awards and decorations, etc.

  60. None of the finance, leadership, command policy, or legal regs can addresss these issues at present. As soon as this is repealed their is going to be a bees nest at every legal, equal opportunity, and inspector general offcie across the military. These are the issues that politicians do not realize and the reason why they should stay out of military issues. Combat readiness will be shot to hell because leaders will be spending all of their time unscrewing this problem. Let us not forget that the mission of the military is to fight and win the Air and Land Battles of the United States and is dependent on readiness. Thank God I don't have to deal with this anymore.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      I wonder if this happened during integration of the Army. Did everyone spend all of the waking moments to one cause; NOT! I thank God you don't have to deal with it either !SG. I believe the men and women of the armed forces want to know they have someone in charge who is looking out for the interest of ALL.

  61. There are sexualy aggressive homosexuals out there, I know because I've seen them! I do not want them arround me or near me, or those who like to have relationships with animals or something else in nature! I have seen the incident facts on D.O.D. paper that prove that there have same sex rapes and two were discharged for sexual relations with farm animals! Thats sick.
    I do not want to shower and some "it" tell me what a nice service member I have. Homosexuals have the agenda of obtaining benefits with the federal government on par with recognized minorities. Homosexuals want that combat support job that the minorities have, anybody noticed who's doing all the dying in this war! Go back to your city club or your front porch and play with your banjo!

    • That is the most ignorant opinion I’ve ever heard. You’re implying that only homosexuals are agressive? Look at the statistics retard there are more straight rape and sexual charges both in the military and civilian world than homosexual charges. Ive been In for more than 5 years and ill tell ya your “servicemember” is the last thing I want to look at. And I’m from Cleveland you piece of shit and just because I’m gay I would never Fuck a farm animal. You need to take some college courses and learn how to form an opinion. And if you can’t ,don’t talk!

      • Right back at you funny man, you do not know me do you! I know your your gay because you just admitted it and I dont care about your statistics,five years of service or the wretched cleveland you inhabit. I'm implying simply that I do not care for the sexual macabre that is homosexuality or that sexual preference of anything else in nature.
        I do not apologize if I offended you, you will get no extra legal rights with me ! Move Out, Go listen to Cher and be happy.

    • La_maripoza says:

      there you are,
      earlier you statd that I don't know who you are but you know that I'm gay – well duh I stated so. What is your point?
      Whos is doing the dying?
      "…they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."
      Epitahp on the tombsotne of US AF Sgt. Leonard Matlovich, a highly decorated Viet Nam airman.

      • Hey Mack! This is the last time reasoning in a one inch box. I dont care about your medals or who you loved. My statement is what it is, just that. There is a greater broader picture that this whole subject needs to be looked into and it has, no more arguements.
        Move on down the line and take any gripes with you to someone else who is more sensitive. Like I said Before, "Move out" !

    • Novacbub63 says:

      So are you trying to say that there aren't any sexually aggressive hetrosexuals out there? I guess you think that all is' pure and rightous' in the hetro world. Wake up and go back to your own porch and play your own banjo!!

  62. OMG, Corporal Hadley, are you still in? You're probably "tickled-pink" about this you man-juice guzzling, scary little black stain!

    I hope we don't make it easier for homosexuals, they would go "Section 8" if they didn't have anything to complain about. Keeping "gays" (happies) from being open about their private life, doesn't hurt mission readiness. Hell 89% of all W/M (women Marines) are lesbians, or in the closet, and they just keep on joining.

    Sodom and Gamora dog!

  63. Toelzer – Encouraging others to move out of the country to be themselves is ridiculous. You're claiming others have more right to serve in the millitary than others. Citizens are citizens. Ever read the Constitution and the protection of individual's rights in America? What other countries have done to integrate all citizens in the ranks of the military is very relevant, as it contradicts the nay-sayers fear-based arguments against inclusion. They have shown it is a mere prejudice and not a factual argument about military functioning. ALL institutions undergo transformation as culture changes in society over time. Historical fact. The military is no different in this respect and will transform. Race is no longer a justifable predujice. Gender exclusion is no longer an issue. Homosexuality will be no different. Telling gay individuals to keep certain parts of their lives to themselves in order not offend others is hate and prejudice masked as heterosexual entitlement.

  64. What kind of bathrooms and showers should they now have?

  65. How do you know which on is the spouse?

  66. "For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they are without excuse……..Professing to be wise, they became fools and changed the glory of incorruptible God into the image made like corruptible man………Therefore God gave them up to uncleanness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and worshipped the creature rather than the Creator. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their woman exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due……………..(those) who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Sure, some of us are homophobic (whatever), we just don't to see you practice your homosexuality in Hell.

    • My my spouting the Bible now?. If you want to read the bible go ahead in theprovacy of you area. There is enough evidence to say much of the Bible is false. Like wise there are points to it being reasonably reliable. Do NOT forget people interperted the Bible and interpertation is at best tricky, add to the fact that the King James version is not all that accurate. Just read the books and you will see that the Bible is someones (human) version of a story which may or may not be true.
      BTW I am expecting you to read the books to disprove me, not the other way around.

    • La_maripoza says:

      don't be so hard on yourself 459635, did you read the story of Ruth and Naomi in the bible? Ruth 1:16, 17
      And how King David, the macho giant slayer had the hots for another guy?
      "I am distressed for you my brother Jonathan. You have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was wonderful, surpassing the love for women." 2nd Sam 1:26
      And Jesus was a direct descendant of Ruth, Naomi and David.
      Bumper! this kinda blows your rant useless – go gargle some holy water.

    • so if we practice homosexuality in hell does that mean we will see you there…cause being a judgemental fridged jerkoff will land you there also…so next time you have an argument leave jesus at home…and realize that church and state are still in place… even on a federal level…and that reading the bible does not make you smarter than everybody else

  67. justsayin says:

    This truly is an issue of dispute with a lot of factors to consider. While I have no problem with one's sexuality, you do have to view every aspect. Even though they have been serving in the military forever and some have excelled in their military career, what about the young ones that plan to enter? Cause everyone knows with age comes wisdom. And let's be honest, there are a lot of flamboyant ones out there who's probably gonna try to prove something to someone or themselves and join who shouldn't even give it a second thought. Then they're in basic training complaining it's too hard or it's too much and want to go home which in turn is wasting government time, resources and money.

    • i agree…there are many factor to consider…with joining…benefits…housing…and respect… im a gay female…but respectfully i dont throw it in peoples faces…i would not want it done to me…and i dont tell people unless they ask me…if they decide to allow benefits to commited gay and lesbian couples they should be done on a scale… ex the soldier ranking higer would get on base living first if housing available on base…unless there is a child…everyone is worried about it taking away from other soldiers families…but really does it matter if i commit myself to another woman…because if i married a man that man would still be getting benefits…but i get what you mean about different factors…and i respect that you did not rip people apart on here

  68. "Robert' – Serving in the U.S. Military is a privilege not a right. I was commenting on the NATO aspect and how the other NATO nations, albeit inferior, allow opeing homosexual behavior. If you desire to serve in the U.S. military follow the rules. If you desire to serve openly gay then join the military of a country that allows this. This doesn't mean you have to give up your citizenship and you are certainly defending the same missions the U.S. would most likely be involved in. What's more important, your right to express your homosexuality or the defense of your nation. No where in the constitution does it guarantee your right to sexual orientation. We need to stop comparing the civil rights movement and religious freedom with sexual orientation.

  69. Answer the difficult questions before integrating gays into the military. Gay men and women are not the difficult issue although they are a dilemma. What do you do with a male Transexual for example? Are they male or female? Regardless of whether they have had an operation. Do they sleep in the men's barracks or the women's? Are the hormonal treatments covered? Can they serve in Combat units? You want to integrate into the military then get busy answering the critical questions. Let's answer the hard questions and stop the knee jerk reaction to immediately integrate. This was be incredibly stupid and self serving. Not to mention very detrimental to the gay rights movement.

  70. I am retired Army and do not support open gays in the military. I think the current policy should stay as it is now. I also do not support benefits for partners of gays. That would open the doors to any single military person inviting their girl friend or boy friend to move in with them and they would want married benefits of the military. As a Christian, I cannot support the gay lifestyle and don't want it imposed on me and my family. I do not hate anyone, but believe that it is wrong to live that lifestyle. My stand has nothing to do with fear of them, it has to do with the fear for them. I do believe that you cannot be a Christian and accept their lifestyle as being in accordance with the teaching of Christ.

  71. The issue is not whether gays and lesbians can serve in the military. It’s whether they can serve openly in the military. Serving openly could affect good order and discipline of some units. In my opinion simply changing the regulation to reflect that no one will be pursued or forced out is a wise decision. Gay and lesbian members should and have served superbly for years in the military. However, just as I am required to keep my faith and other issues of my personal life discrete to not offend anyone, sexual preference should also be kept discrete. Should our gay and lesbian citizens be able to serve? ABSOLUTLY!

  72. Fred Fawcett says:

    If God has a problem with gays and their lifestyle then God will deal with it when Judgement is made. Nobody appointed anyone here in this life to be the morals police so back off and let people live. I suspect that God will judge the bigots and haters more harshly than those who are attracted to and love each other, gay or straight. If you want to make this a more moral society, remember that hate is a grave and serious sin that you will have to answer for. The gays that I served with never gave any of their fellow soldiers any problem, they just did their jobs like the rest of us.

  73. those who wanna cite UCMJ, isn't doggy style Illegal under the UCMJ? listed under sodomy? What about masturbation? (I think so but I'm not sure) any one wanna try telling a Marine he/she has to restrict all of his/her sexual acts to the missionary position only? how about trying to tell a grunt not to masturbate? You'll get your eye poked out. plain and simple, I'm straight, with kids, I'm a vet, 0311 MOS, actually served in combat with gay troops, and I think that the UCMJ is out dated in some areas, while ahead of it's time in others. I agree with a lot of folks out there, if they're man enough to lay their life on the line, then their man enough to have my respect for it

  74. All this talk and so many of you have no idea what or who you are talking about. I know several gay men who’s names are on the Vietnam Wall. They died defending our country where they can’t even hold hands without harraent. Shame on you! Oh yeah, the Bible, you need to study that book a little more closely and in depth. Jesus never made any reference to same sex relationships, obviously he didn’t think it was that relevent.

  75. 10 yearsafter says:

    I will support gay gals and guys etc when we are flying around in jet cars like we where promosed back in the 50's

  76. We all sign on the dotted line and agree to give up certain liberties to be a part of the disciplined military. We don't get to choose where we get stationed, whether or not to get deployed, what job we get to do, etc. We just suck it up and move on. There are mission impacts to homosexual activity. For one, there are numerous homophobes in the military, and that's not something that can just be trained out of people. Violence against the gays will increase. Remember, while 70% of troops are cool with gays serving, that means 30% are NOT. Two, long deployments increase the chance of sexual assault. Ever think why women are assaulted more frequently on FOBs? More gays = more sexual assaults against men. For those of men, just think, if you've been deployed for 6 months and you saw a smoking hot woman in the shower, would you want her that much more? To the point of losing control? Rapes will increase.

  77. Three, even if gays are separated and given their own facilities, what would that do perceived fairness? Morale? How many logistical issues do we have to consider for deployments and training now? Four, health issues. Hepatitis and HIV are more prevalent in the gay community. While it may not seem like a huge to deal to most, there are reasons why homosexual activity is banned from military service. I personally have no problem with gay people and I wish them the best, but we need to adhere to good order and discipline.

    • princesssky12 says:

      That is so ignorant … Oh i forgot Blacks and Latinos had there own platoons prior to unit them with there white counter parts…. Ignorant HIV and Hepatitis are issues that heterosexuals have and they are not prevalent in gays get the fact straight first and then make constructive comments. Gay sodiers have more discipline and oder than heterosexual. The military has more embaracing moments done by heterosexuals than gay people. Soldiers rapping,murdering and other situations again get the fact straight.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      Good order and discipline? My dear Randy, while serving in Iraq, I counseled so many heterosexual who took a trip on the wild side and came home HIV positive to thier wives and husbands. Hepatitis and HIV are not gay diseases; please take time and educate yourself; this is why we perish: A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE

  78. Rober House says:

    KKVet Retired.

    You have stated your views very calmly, intelligently and with a lot of common sense. I have to agree with most of your comments.

    In rebuttal to a few of the foregoing comments about how there were no problems with integrating blacks and women into the military. I disagree about the women part. They are still causing many problems in the military because of sexual affairs and because of the vast difference of how women lead and how men lead. Male and Female brains work differently. Don't think so? Talk to your wife or husband.

    I retired over 30 years ago and there were far fewer women in the Navy at that time and there were problems even then. The problems have only gotten worse since. You young people that have grown up with it don't see it, but we older folks do. You can say yeah, yeah, he's just an old fart and what does he know………history……..that's what we know……..history.

    • Veteran Navy Wife says:

      Yep women get pregnant in droves when their ship is to deploy, leaving a vessel sometimes unable to deploy on time. Oh and don't forget the fraternization of the officers and enlisted that happens, many commands overturned in the past year over this. I know one ship the CO and Med Officer were having an affair aboard ship and the CMC and XO both were well aware, both the officers in the affair married. The entire chain of command was intereviewed and in the Persian Gulf theater of war events the command was turned over. That was just over a year ago. Women are just as much an issue as homosexuals.

      And for those who do not think things happen and that commands will protect those who come out of the closet, it might not be an issue on a battle field or on an airplane, but I assure you that on ships there are many things that happen and no one really knows the truth. Sometimes sailors happen to end up in the water and in fact that recently happened, I know my son got a navy achievement medal for controlling the aircraft locating the sailor who went "overboard" and there is not one report released as it is "under investigation" if this is related to DADT.

      Facts are there have always been gays in the military and there will always be, there will always be inappropriate sexual acts in the military and that is why we have a UCMJ live by it and forget the repeal.

  79. The Defense Investigative Service reversed their policy of not giving security clearances to gays and lesbians in 1987. In short, as long as during the investigation they were forthcoming and did not hide, attempt to hide, cover up or deny AND all other sources interviewed were truthful, they were then given a security clearance. Security clearances are not only for the military but for other agencies, contractors and more.

    More "straight" individuals were caught in lies than those with alternative lifestyles.

    The most frightening thing is change but it is how well we handle that change that makes us better for it.

  80. I was in the Army for 4 years. I think that it does not matter if you are gay or straight to be able to do a good job. Many gay and lesbians are already in the military. The same benefits should be given to same sex partners once they have committed to each other through a civil union or in some states marriage. America is always changing and this is a good change!

  81. Any person who is willing to fight and die for this country deserves to be open about who they are and who they love, DADT should be repealed! As for the benefits for their spouses this should be equal too. I have read a lot of comments on here comparing gay and lesbian spouses to boyfriend and girlfriends please remember that in most states gays and lesbians are unable to marry so this fact is impossible to change. A domestic partner should get all benefits of a spouse. The 1996 Defense of Mar¬riage Act is illegal in itself and is discriminatory.

  82. SandiMacD says:

    I offer my full support to open military service for everyone. We desperately need every dedicated member to pull his or her share. Over time, the adjustments will be made and solutions found. It’s never easy to accommodate change but the military as always will pull together and carry out their orders.

    • I can't serve. Why? Because I am a veteran. I have 8years of service across two branches. College Degree and excellent health. They won't take me back! No prior service veterans are accepted.

  83. Proud to Serve says:

    Wow. As I read through all of the comments, I felt both joy and sorrow. I retired from the Army after 24-years of dedicated service; experienced
    a great deal in those years and I whole heartedly believe the military taught me, not only about diversity, but about inclusivity. I remember early
    on in my career, as an enlisted soldier I served alongside men who wore mascara and women who were stronger than most men I knew.
    I thank God, I was raised to love people for who they are and not based of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Gay men and
    women have been proudly serving in the military, probably since the military's existence. We should be afforded the same rights and benefits
    as any other soldier, air(wo)man, marine or sailor. But here lies the problem, if marriage is only defined between a man and woman, how can
    same-gender loving people in committed relationships be afforded the same benefits as their heterosexual counterparts. I have same-gender
    loving friends who have been together over 25-years and I have been in a same-gender relationship for almost 10-years. Is this not marriage?

    • La_maripoza says:

      repealing DADT would be a good step towards seeing equal rights across the board. As to how to ensure that the same-sex couples receive due benefits that's gonna take a little longer.

  84. Proud to Serve says:

    Often times, we hear such rhetoric as identified in some of the resposes above, such as, "they will compromise morale and safety of … I will
    tell you that militants have other things to worry about, like dodging bullets and IEDs than to be worried if the person who is going to save their
    life is gay or straight. Give me a break! It is time to lift the veil of discrimination and do the right thing.

  85. Proud to Serve says:

    Tell me this, would you prefer to have an authentic and openly gay person or a fraudulent, lying, closeted person standing in the foxhole with you? I like to know where a man or woman stands and I don't want to second guess everything he or she says to me. I would much rather serve with someone who is
    comfortable inside their own skin, than with one who is preoccupied and not focused because they are busy trying to keep their stories straight
    for fear of detection. One of the respondents basically said, "serve and keep your mouth shut." I say, it takes a lot more effort to conceal than to go
    natural. To the gay men and women who continue to serve in the military, the day is coming when you can be the true, authentic you without fear of
    reprocussion. In the mean time, keep setting the example and serve proudly. Peace, from a radically inclusive, open and affirming MAJ (retired) African-American
    Lesbian. Hooaah

    • princesssky12 says:

      Thanks for your words…. Maj… It is dificult to serve and not been able to be with the one you love because that is the one that is your support and Back bone. But gay people have done it because they love there Country. It is time to change…….

  86. Please tell me how Canada, the UK, Israel and the rest of our allies manage to have sound miliarty forces without this dumb restriction. Tell the Canadians, Brits and Israelis that their forces inferior.

  87. Quit trying to legitimize this lifestyle. Be all the gay you can be, just not on my post, base, or ship. I just finished 25 years of military service and find it unbelievable that we can go from Leavonworth to entitlements for the same behavior. This lifestyle is incapable of producing life so why promote it. A country cannot be replenished in such a way. It is another nation killing idea being pushed by liberals. Gay families and abortions will not a country make. Do the math, both add up to ZERO futures.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      So tell me this, if a woman or man is incapable of producing a child, does that make them less valued in society? If we were made for just procreation, what a sad world it would be for those who remain virgins, married without children, etc. So tell me, what post, ship or base do you own? The problem my friend Jury is you "judge" when you should not! Peace from a fellow quarter century vet.

    • La_maripoza says:

      thanks for your 25 years of service. Now its time to come out of the caves.
      It is not a "lifestyle" anymore than being born with blue eyes is a life style.
      would you penalize hetersexual coples for being infertile? You have fuzzy logic at best.
      I'm gay, I have children produced from my own semen. One of my daughters is gay, she has children from her own womb. Confused?

  88. common sense says:

    It seems this is all about benefits/ everyone who thinks they should have to the fullest. I dont believe that being gay is biological, but a choice. Its my opinion and i have that right. Can i ask, What is a matter with being single and those benefits? So if i have a girlfriend and i do not marry her, but we have been together forever….should i get marital benefits? Absolutely not. This what i chose for live my life and not cry about free money and benefits. I wonder how the Dads and Moms feel of the "Look at me and i am special" gays about not carrying on their family bloodlines. Now thats biological, A species that breeds and reproduces.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      I do not advocate for a girl or boyfriend to receive benefits. If same gender marriage was legal throughout the country, I am sure same gender committed individuals would exercise their right to marriage. Here lies the difference "marriage," which warrants benefits and entitlements. It is about so much more than the money and you know what? It is about SO MUCH MORE THAN SEX and procreation. What happens to the bloodline of one incapable of producing? I guess that person is not biological; a species incapable of reproducing. You see how ignorant that sounds? Probably not!

  89. It will eventually put our children at risk.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      Do you care to elaborate? Have you viewed outcome statistics on children with same gender parents?

    • La_maripoza says:

      you do know that most sexual and children abouse is caused by heterosexual males. Females are not too far behind on that.
      Google "the dishonor roll" women teachers charged with sexual abuse on students.
      Not attacking women here; just the facts maem.

  90. Ironhand USMC says:

    The possible repeal of the present DADT policy has taken on a flavor, which I had not thought it would have. I do agree that this issue is a Political Hot Potatoe, but for the love of God, let us all get on with the business of restoring our country to what it once was, before all the Liberal, and some Conservative types alike, screwed up our great country, just so they could further their Political and Personal agendas. As for Homosexual types serving openly in our country's military services, all one has to do, is ask the people of our military presently serving within the Rank and File of any of our nation's military services, you'll get your answer to that question Loud and Clear, I asure you of this.

    • Veteran Navy Wife says:

      They tried to get an answer with random questionaires and my son's never reached him, they sent it to his home of record 3 times, you gonna tell me how on a ship in the ocean he is going to be able to answer this thing? Seems the DoD wanted to eliminate some of their respondents ~ so I would say that unless EVERYONE is afforded the opportunity to answer and respond, this should not be an issue, keep DADT or if repealed it is then back to UCMJ rules from pre Clinton years.

      • Ironhand USMC says:

        What you have conveyed, with regard to some of the Rank and File being asked if DADT should be repealed, I have been advised that many of the DOD surveys, which were sent out to the fleet, Navy/Marine Corps wide, simply never made it back to the Higher Archie of the Naval Service Leadership. Even if a substantial amount of the surveys did make it back to the Naval Service Higher Archie, SECDEF Gates, and Adm Mullin surely would not have taken any stock in what the Rank and File of the Navy or Marine Corps had to say, with regard to repealing DADT, or how the fleet personnel actually felt about this whole issue in the first place.

        • And like a school girl you submit to gossip. Ironically if the surveys had said contrary to what they do now, you would fall faithfully behind its findings, but since it further adds PROOF that the majority of those surveyed are not singing to your **** of music, then it must be at fault? Hahaha, You sir should run for Supreme Court Justice, because your ideologies are just too superb to be ignored! When Clinton proposed DADT back in the 90′s, I’m sure you and the lot of yours voiced the same opposition to it then, because just ALLOWING gays in the military was going to make us succumb to communism and invasion from the Soviets right? Soooo, now that it didn’t happen, and the military didn’t fall apart with AIDS, and soldiers weren’t violently raped in the shower, god didn’t send a cosmic event to end or civilization, and the whole host of your other silly thoughts never came to past, what will be your reason for opposition this time? NOW, you want to keep DADT? Oh the irony! Lol

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            By the title of your post, you must be an Army or Air Force Veteran, or still on active duty. What ever your current station in our country's military was, or is, there are many events in history, which I'm certain you were not a part of, because you were either Too young to have been, or not yet born. When you are reading about our country's history, especially our country's military history, please do, verify what you are in fact reading, or, that the research stream you are involved with, paints what actually happened within our great nation as a whole. You would be well advised, to be of a mind set to Not believe everything involving our country's history across the board, as totally factual. Those who have had the task of recording our great nation's history, had written what they thought to be in the best interests of the citizens of our nation. I am not saying that the historians falsified anything, but there are many aspects of our nation's history which were not presented by todays main stream standards.

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            As for my running for a position as a Supreme Court Justice, if I were to run, and be appointed to a position therein, our nation as a whole would become a much better to live in, because unlike you, and the rubbish you have seen fit to say about me, my position would be for the betterment of our nation, regardless of what you, or anyone else figured it should, or could be. But seeing is how I am not about to run for a position as a Supreme Court Justice, which I'm sure you could care less of my doing in the first place, I shall continue to enjoy my station in life, the very life which I had a hand in making avail for myself, my family, my close personal friends, and let me Not forget you in my statement. My current station in life, allows me to continue to serve my fellow Americans, in many capacities, while ensuring the "Law Of Our Land" is adhered to. Thank You for your attention.

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            Your military mind set, is totally different to mine, and why wouldn't it be. My military service to my country was in the Marine Corps for 20+ years. By your posting, you had served in the Army or the AirForce. Although the Army and the Marine Corps have some similar functions, my time in the Corps was not simply putting in my time until I retired. The Corps is, "A Way Of Life". It is not a job, it is just an adventure, it is not aiming high, it is not being an individual. It is a mind set which is uniquely MARINE!
            All the other armed forces of our great nation have their own unique qualities, and I will not go about saying that I know exactly what each of those are, for the other branches of our country's armed services, because I do not. Each of us has had our time chewing the dirt in some far away land, so that many of our fellow countrymen would not have to do that. My service to my country is no more, or less valid than yours, but it is uniquely my service to, "God, Country and Corps". Thank You, and have yourself a very Patriotic Day. "Semper Fidelis"

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            Have my replies to your reply of my posting placed you in an unsavory position Mr. John? You see Army, or Air Force, which ever you happen to be, there are Soooooooo many postings gong down range, with regard to whether the DADT policy should, or needs to be repealed, that this whole topic has taken on a life of its own. Repealing of the DADT policy shall Zero Direct affect on my life, my families life, and all of my close personal friends lives's. From where I sit, this issue is a Non Issue for a great deal of Americans, so let the Higher Archie, and the Politicians hack away at themselves, because I shall waste NO more time on this topic, because I have much better things to spend my time doing. You take care now Mr. John.
            Sincerely, "Semper Fidelis" to God, Country and Corps…

  91. Technically, if they want to serve and prove themselves then let them but just got me concern is there safety that is all, i have nothing against homosexuality -i am straight- its just knowing what others would think

    • La_maripoza says:

      Thanks for your concern David, I did well for myself. but then I'm naturally agressive
      Being gay does not mean bean a wimp.

  92. Ironhand USMC says:

    Should DADT be repealed, and Homosexuals be allowed to serve openly within the Rank and File of our nation's military services, this shall turn around and bight the Liberal, and some of the Conservative types alike, in their collect backsides. If all the brainiacs who are pushing for the repeal of the present DADT policy had to endure the proposed repeal, and or changes involving the entire issue, then perhaps these brainiacs would not be going about pushing for the repeal of DADT at all. Those who would see to it, that the DADT policy be repealed, have only their own personal agendas in mind here, and do not genuinely care one way or the other for whether the Homosexual community is represented fairly or not. If the repeal of DADT fails
    to come about, then all this Hub Bub was for NO bloody good reason, and a whole lot of money and resources were put forth, with little to show for the efforts, but a Bill which must be paid for whole affair.

  93. Mike vet, surely you don’t believe that gays would harm our dependents. The vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by heterosexuals, and generally by a relative! Your unfounded assumptions are clearly from ignorance and propaganda. As I see it, gays are not looking for special rights, just equal rights, which should be afforded them because of our constitution. I’ve had the foresight of living through the civil rights struggle, as well as Women equality and these same thesis were used in an attempt to keep rights away from them. It was said that black men would run rampage on white women. That women couldn’t and should not be placed in position of leadership . Military women were lower than freshman male recruit. In my opinion, Milspouse, the Defense of Marriage Act should be fought against. It allowed a few, to govern and rationalize the lives of others using puritanical concepts and prejudices. 

    In conclusion, if one people are restricted, we all as a nation are restricted. Intelligent debate is welcomed. Over 23 years careerist.

    Bravo sir, well said with eloquence and unbiased rationale. Sad that the crippling mentality of fear, ignorance and religious propaganda has been allowed to incubate in the minds of so many for so long. Even more sad that we as a nation once stood oppressed, we cried for liberty, freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all men (and women supposedly), and later when it suited the economic conscience of the political and financial majority, we decreed that all men were created equal as well. But today, when the need isn’t present, those very voices remain silent, or even worse, defiant to leadership which echoes those very sentiments upon which this nation was built. Alas America, when did we become so righteous that we ourselves became the wardens who we once revolted against??? The famous words “Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori” now leaves a stained and bitter taste in  the mouths of those like myself, who have served faithfully and continue to do so today, for the belief of a “free nation” upon which my children and generations to come may look up to and emulate the good which we stood for, rather than the “right” the ignorant and self righteous minority has bolstered. I conclude by highlighting our solemn proclaim that “Out of many stand one,” but which one are we today? 

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      I completly agree with you sir. What a breath of fresh air to read a post from an open minded Veteran. Not the same old one track song and dance that you hear from the majority..

  94. This makes me sick!! Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves! Who cares about “cultural norms”!! It is immoral and wrong to be gay/lesbian. No one wants to see it either! This bill will not pass!! EVER! Keep your business to yourself becasue no one wants to know about it or see it.

    • Proud to Serve says:

      Some of your forefathers who are rolling over in their graves were likely gay. Hmmm. Tell me, what fear lies beneath? Search yoursel to see. Equal rights for all my friend.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Clearly you are homophobid and would rather keep your head in the sand.
      your foundign fathers "cultural norms" do you even have any idea of what you are saying?
      Yes, its clear it makes you sick.

  95. As one Master Chief Petty Officer once wrote in a Pro/Con backpage article in Navy Times some years ago, what do you tell your Kids when you're standing in line at the Base Housing Office and the Gay or Lesbian Couple in front of them gets the last available House for the next 6 months?

    • La_maripoza says:

      such is life – as an NCO some officers got some bennies that I wish my children would receive but didn't.

    • Really??? Come on! Would the response be any different if it were a straight couple ahead of you who got the last house available for that 6 month period? If the MCPO is raising his children right, then who is infront shouldn’t matter, as long as they are eligible for the benefits at hand. If his parents had raised him right, he wouldn’t even have asked that question to begin with.

  96. This is not about DADT, it is about military benefits. Military benefits in general have affected the institution of marriage within the institution of the military. The military has a 50% divorce rate, last I checked. Probably higher as the ops tempo has not slowed – as much as Obama would like the general public to believe it has. I digress, There are issues saturating the military and it's life style that require all to often quick marriages to persue relationships that should never lead to marriage. Marriage seems to be the band-aid of the real issues here.

  97. All I can say is that AM1960 is nothing more than an idiot, I am retired WWII Veteran and have served with gays on every ship I was in and there were no problems

  98. This is to RobJ,you had better go back into history and do alot of reading.The people that wrote the constitution were Christian,and what they wrote was based on values from the Bible. Not one word was said about gays. And by the way,in the dictionary gay meansmerry,happy,joyous lively and lighthearted. What we are talking about is homosexuals… But the writters were mostly Christians. And as for you kkvet retired,Who is ingnorant? YOU are. You HAVE YOUR opinion,and I HAVE MY OWN………

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      I believe you were the moron that replied to my post a while ago… Calling me stupid and using terrible spelling and grammar to do so. Anyways I figure that I will return the favor, though I feel like Im picking on the mentally handicapped.

      You have been officially placed into a whole different kind of stupid by making this post. When you're a narrow minded christian conservative, incapable of thinking for yourself you should never come to an arguement throwing around a word like "ignorant," and certainly (this is the most critical) know your facts before you assume someone else does not (To which your religiously bias brain has misconstrued).

      The writers (not writters) of the constitution were a great mixture of deist and christian, with more evidence to support that the majority were deist over christian. In fact James Madison the proclaimed "Father of the Constitution" said this quote which is OH SO VERY FITTING to this entire article…….

      "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

      I thank you Rob for being an easy target and the goat to which i can get my point across. On a brighter note, if you have served or are currently serving this country i thank you. Im assuming since this is a military site.

    • La_maripoza says:

      you are correct Rob, you have you have your opinion, then there are the facts.
      Thomas Jefferson, who believed that Christianity was a superstition had the following to say:
      "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
      and BTW – they were not Christians but deists.

  99. Ironhand USMC says:

    As for my personal view on the repeal of the DADT policy, I say "NO", don't repeal the policy, nor modify the exsisting policy one bloody bight. Let the DADT policy stand as is, just like when Bill Clinton signed it into law during his Presidency. I see NO bloody Up Side to the repeal of DADT. Now there are many a Homosexual type out there who shall not like, nor share what I have conveyed herein, and they are entitled to not agree, ,just as I am entitled NOT to agree or like the life style they live, period. The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few, or in other words, there are a whole lot more
    Non-Homosexuals in this world of ours, than there are Homosexuals. The Majority should need not have to endure anything which the Minority (Homosexuals) deem they want voted in place, just to be Stylish.

    • La_maripoza says:

      No one is trying to take anything from you "non-Homosexuals" just asking for equal rights.

      • Ironhand USMC says:

        Your comment is one of the very first I have read, which is exactly to the point, No rubbish involved, and I Thank You for this.

        Equal rights for all, this I am behind 100%, in light of some of my comments. How is this to become a fact of life, rather than merely bantering it about, like it has been for as long as I can recall? If you can answer that question, then let me hear what your plan is, so that this will be accomplished once and for all time. Thank You again for being the most direct in your statement. "Semper Fidelis"

  100. princesssky12 says:

    Ignorant who think that because of Sexual Orientation no one will be able to do there work. Heterosexuals have done Inmoral things and they still are able to join the armend forces . What a human being dose in thire bed is there buissiness not the peoples. Ignorance is the reason for this situation.Why sexual orientatin will affect the ability of a human being do there work correcly. Gays have the right to defend there country like heterosexuals. I now servicemen that are gay and the are exelent soldiers,experts in ther warrior tasks and Drills and will give there live for all the ignorant human beings that oppose there right to Defend there country. Most of the people that desagree will not even go to a Recruiting Station to join and serve there country because they are ignorant Bastards that dont have a clue on what is to defend there country. Lack of sence of Duty loyalty and extream lack of LOVE FOR WHAT THE US STANDS FOR…..

  101. NotSoPrivate says:

    What does your ability to run, shoot, KILL, evade, protect, and just SERVE in general have to do with WHO YOU SLEEP WITH?

    These attitudes make me WISH I could "Gay Out" of the military. I'm sickened by my "coworkers" who are basically telling me that my gay battle buddies, even though trained and tested EXACTLY THE SAME are LESS than their straight counterparts.

    I can tell you that I would NEVER leave a fallen comrade–and neither would they–our Army Values are the same. We don't pick and choose. We're ARMY STRONG. And we're only that strong TOGETHER.

  102. Ironhand USMC says:

    As for several people who are in favor of repealing DADT, based on what other country's military services around the globe have done, and are doing in this regard, they are NOT the military services of our great nation, so what they have, or are doing in this regard, bares Zero weight in our United States Of America, period. If one gives a mouse a slice of cheese, they are going to want a glass of milk as well. Stop this entire crusade to repeal DADT once and for all! Leave the issue of Homosexuals serving openly in America's military services right where it stands presently, and do NOT alter a thing. If my comments herein do not set well within the Homosexual community, then so be it. There are many who are romping about, trying their best to overturn and abolish my rights as an American, so that Homosexuals may enjoy their rights over mine. Now you know just where I stand on this issue. I shall NOT have my rights trampled on, just so the Homosexual community may have their rights supercede my own. If this issue can not be ironed out without stomping all over the majority here, the Non-Homosexual population of our country, then perhaps the casting of this play needs to remain as is, for the foreseeable future.

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      Let me start by saying im in the military and im not gay, but im also not an uneducated "self proclaimed" bad a$$ either. Tell me does it get old at all? Even one bit? Living that christian conservative Marine Corps "Dune Coon killing and Homo fearing" facade of a lifestyle? Its funny to me, but whats funnier is this idea, (complements of your closed minded brain), that your rights are going to be trampled on. I like to pause and think about this for a minute….ok…..WTF are you talking about? Wait..you must be refering to the gay communities plan to make us wear a rainbow colored pin on our chest and put us in concentration camps. Yeah, i forgot that this was inevitably going to start a chain reaction that leads to the mass genocide of straight people…sorry brother. I'm on the same page as you now.

      • Ironhand USMC says:

        You are entitled to your opinion of me, but if I wanted your opinion of me, really, I Would Certainly Give It To You. As for your comment of it ever getting old for me, or my be a self proclaimed bad a$%, of course you know, I have heard that and much better than that, many times before you. I am entitled to my view, and if people like yourself don't like reading it, then please avail yourself of not doing so. I do not agree with the Homosexual way of living, and voicing my opinion, is my right to do so, just as it is your right t do so. My rights are just that, my rights, and I do not allow anyone to trample them, period. Perhaps you do not care about your rights, and you simply go with the flow, and this is your due.

        Do I genuinely believe that I will have to accord myself to the Homosexual way of going about my life, Not For One Bloody Minute would I do this. Just as the Homosexual people of this world do not have to accrod themselves to the way I ive my life, not for a minute. If my comments strike a nerve in any of you in cyber land, then I have accomplished what I set out to do. Thank You.

        • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

          I will admit to some degree it gets on my nerves, but not like i sit around and burn about it, or lose sleep over it. If the ban stays as is you won't see me putting up any kind of fuss about it, and I will go on buisness as usual.

          In a less sarcastic tone, there is a couple things i'd like to express to you. One being that the alleged "watering down" of benefits is just fear driven propaganda and nothing more. If this is what you are referring to when you are saying that you are worried for your rights, then i assure you you have nothing to worry about. Your rights as an American are protected by the Constitution. I honestly cannot wrap my head around this idea you have of your rights trampled. If by this you mean that you are going to be "forced to take in the gay culture" then man… i dont know are you stupid? In the professional military work environment how often do you see opposite sex couples making out..etc? I have been around for a few years and i've never seen it. You are not going to be subjected to witnessing gay foreplay while at work. In your off time w/e don't hang around them, avoid them like a plague if you must. It's no different then what goes on in the civilian sector.

          The key here is the mission, the work environment. Most people agree that this will have not the miniscule effect on accomplishing the mission, regardless of what it happens to be. If that mission required you to be naked and picking things off the ground then yeah, i'd be on your side of the debate. These people are American citizens, and they have rights as well, lest we forget. We've developed a culture of fear mongering over people that are different. It is outside of the cultural norms to be a homosexual, but just hating on these people for that fact is not good enough my friend. I see your a somewhat level headed indivdual so i will appologize for being overly presumptuous. I do have a few Marine friends and I hear this kinda talk all the time. Yes, they get their fair share of jokes directed at them.

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            My Rights, as per the Constitution of our United States. I know full well what my Rights are, and I also know which political types are doing their best to "Alter My Constitutional Rights", so that they, the political types can have their jubilee, when they have accomplished what they have set out to do, to my Rights, and your Rights as well. I do Not worry about what the politicians go about trying to do with my Rights, but it does concern me, and rightfully so. I live my life as decent as I am able, and I do Not go about my day, injuring my fellow man or woman. Having the glorious opportunity of living within our great country, is just that, glorious. My military service career ended well over a decade ago. While I was in service to, "God, Country and Corps", i had experienced first hand, of humanity at its best. I also experienced humanity at its worst as well. As for DADT being repealed, I do believe at some point this shall actually come to pass. As I had stated in my response to another persons posting. When a viable plan is worked up, for equal rights across the board, please let me know, I would be interested to view this plan, and actually see it placed in motion.

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            This ole retired MARINE is very level headed, and I Thank You for your apology here andc now. I have never really thought that the mission would suffer a great deal, because I am fully aware that there were Homosexual personnel in the Corps during my 20+ year career. I am fairly certain that I had several Homosexual personnel under my charge as well. Did the mission which I was directed to accomplish fail, No It Did NOT.
            Many of the comments about Homosexuals serving openly, to include my own, are just that, comments and concerns of a great many people, me included. Will the repeal of the DADT policy have any direct affect on me, No, it will not. I do believe that with all things which our country's military services must endure, the repeal of the DADT policy is one of them. Will the repeal of DADT bring an end to our great nation's military services, Absolutely Not. It is going to be a hurdle for a great many military mind sets to overcome, adapt to, or improvise, to making this change palatable for them.

          • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

            Well….. i thank you for your prior service to the country; Gunny?

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            You are welcome. Yes, it is true that I had held the rank of Gunnery Sergeant during my time in the Corps. Although I did retired with a higher rank than that, Gunny suites me fine. I have said the following to many a fellow Marine, the other service branches, and civilians alike. "When a Marine is promoted to the rank of Gunnery Sergeant, it does not matter if that Marine is promoted to a more senior enlisted rank, or an Officer rank, that Marine shall always be a GUNNY, down deep inside" Since I had retired from the Corps, there have been many times which I have been wearing one of my old style Marine Corps covers, or one of the commercially purchased, old style Marine covers on my head, which has brought about my being addressed as "GUNNY". Out of all the enlisted ranks in the Marine Corps, the two best ranks, in my opinion are, Sergeant, and or Gunnry Sergeant. During my tenure in the Corps, I had attained both of those ranks in a very reasonable time span. When I was a Sergeant, I had a Great Gunny. When I had worn Gunny Chevrons, this old Marine had Great Sergeants.

    • La_maripoza says:

      No bubba, I want my milk too!
      you can keep your "non-homosexual' rights.

  103. EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

    The most rediculous argument against gay's is the religious bullshyt. There is no afterlife stock market, and your not going to be standing tall before "the man" as he reads off what "commandments" you chose to obey and which you chose to ignore. Hear me out because I know there's more than a hand full of you Army homo bashers out there that have cheated on your wife. Let me be the one to point out your hypocracy, and good luck getting into your "heaven." .. But im sure you think that you can just put some extra money in the offering on Sunday and all is good right? Is that how it works?

    In a totally unrelated point, the extention of the tax cuts now make countries like Iran, Russia, and China capable of purchasing our nations debt…does anybody else seem to care about this like I do? Needless to say as a country we have more grievous issues at hand that need to be delt with. Who seriously gives a fck, let the gay's and lesbo's serve. Get off your high horse and shed your fear of the flamboyant.

    • I dont know what dog house you came from,if you are human? But like most stupid people you dont know what you are talking about.You sound like most loosers,you have had a hard little baby life so you want to try to bring people down to you very low level.

  104. Ironhand USMC says:

    Homosexuals are entitled to live their life as they see fit, and I am entitled to live my life as I see fit, and have seen fit to, for all the years of my life to date.

    I trample on NO man or womans rights, I never have, nor shall I endure anyone to trample all over my rights either! I am an old school type, with old school values and principles. I do NOT enjoy the lack of Morality which our present day society continually displays, and continually attempts to place this lack of Morality, over people such as myself, who know who I am, and what I am, and where I have come from. I Love my country more than mere words can describe. I have seen and experienced humanity at its best, but I have also witnessed humanity at its worst.

  105. I served as a Navy Chaplain for 20. This is not a civil rights issue. There is no civil right to serve in the military. If there were, the handicapped would have a right to serve, as would the physically disabled. It is quite simply the right of the nation to choose those who they would have serve.

    Secondly, I worry that the next step will be to tell chaplains not to preach according to their church dictates. 65-75% of chaplains belong to denominations that do not sanction homosexuality. Will chaplains will have their prophetic voices silenced? Will they be sent up on charges for what they preach? or receive bad fitness reports for keeping to their religious backgrounds?

    DADT was a solution imposed by fiat by President Clinton. It was imposed because he could NOT get a complete repeal passed through Congress. One has not been passed through Congress even yet. So, it deserves hearings and a bill.

    This is a very tricky issue, with many constituiencies and opinions to be considered, and cannot be worked out in an immediate fashion. It should be legislated, and I believe the Congress needs to produce a workable solution, not left to the bureaucrats in Admin or a couple of liberal judges who have never served in combat.

    • Veteran Navy Wife says:

      Thank you for serving in a generation of "anything goes" in our society, I believe it is high time the silent Christian majority speak out and put an end to the "civil right" issues of those who "choose" to live a lifestyle that is clearly not identified in our constitution.

      You are so right about the military being a service that can "choose" who serves. I see this as an open door to discrimination suits of all sorts before it is said and done, those who have PTSD and are medically discharged are going to demand to return if they want. Those with other mental health issues will demand a "waiver" to be able to serve.

      I have two sons and a daughter in the navy, a son in law in the army, and a daughter who desperately wants to go in the navy. My daughter who wants to serve cannot due to a thyroid issue, that is under control with medication I might add and she is more physically fit than many military currently serving and she is more than capable of doing a great job, she is denied this right because of a medical issue. Let a homosexual OPENLY serve, stating civil right, then let my daughter serve as she is not defined disabled by the public standard. Oh wait, I forgot public standard is not what we are going by with this, it is politically correct.

      I can see how you are in fear of the issues faced by the ministry of the military, an organization that is already suffering an under manned department and one that will potentially be eliminated because of civil rights one day.

      What has America come to? God please heal this nation and allow the Christians a voice once again.

    • La_maripoza says:

      Thanks for your service padre, it is a civil issue since the military is an employer and therefore must provice Equal Opportunity Employment.
      As for chaplains proselytizing, there is no place in the military for that. You don't serve to "preach" your religious beliefs but to minister to the spiritual needs of troops who are in need.

      • Christina Elliott says:

        well said.

      • I searched for anything that Google lists for there being a Civil Right for gays to serve in the Military. Currently, there isnt any legislation extending this to gays. Legislation is needed. Thats my point, and Obama agrees. You can't punt by just getting rid of DADT; Congress has to write legislation to guide implementation. See this reference:
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/29/retired-

      • La Maripoza, three errors: 1. Sexual orientation is not part of the current military EOE legislation. 2 your opinon of why chaplains serve is somewhat uninformed. They do indeed serve to preach religious beliefs, as well as serve the spiritual needs of troops. Anyone who has attended a military chapel knows that preaching is part of the service.

        3. The comment regarding prosetylizing is spurious. Its not an issue in the military.I served 20 years and I am not aware of a single chaplain ever brought up on charges for prosetylizing. Believe me, if it were a problem, all chaplains would know about it. Your point has more basis in fantasy than reality.

      • Actually, yeah, the military has a whole department for the Chaplains, they are actually in the military to preach and provide support. Also, the military provides guidance and preachings from all different religions, not just Christianity.
        The Military is not just a simple "employer". For example, I know that when I go to work in the morning, I have the right to quit my job, with no real penalty, whenever I want. I have that FREEDOM, which people in the military do not. I know that when I want to take a vacation, I can, at any time, people in the military do not have this FREEDOM. I can move, live, work, vacation, and live my life however I want, people in the military do not have these FREEDOMS. So no, the military is not an equal opportunity employer, since that is not their focus. People who join the military know this. I myself had joined, and then was medically discharged for being in a car accident. If it was an equal opportunity employer, I would still be working there, since I have gone through a year of physical therapy and am back to normal, but back issues are something the military stays FAR away from. That's fine with me, and prolly fine with people who pay taxes and wouldn't want to pay for someone who might have a flair up of pain if the weather gets really cold and the spongy part between my vertebrae start to condense. Remember……the commercial says "The FEW the proud…the Marines", Not just anyone can join.

  106. oldfuzz695 says:

    Declaring domestic partners, you cannot discriminate against male/female unmarried couples. So every grunt in the service will be moving in and out more than one gilrfriend. No divorce lawyer nessessary? Who's going to make the decisions on who is who? This is a disaster in the making.

  107. i am a gay serving presently n bathing amongst those who call themeselves straight.i have no interest at all with any straight.they are all fack,hidding n fucking each other when their gf fail to come.some of them are nasty n would not be my if i were a girl.i know my job n even teach them how to.u think we are sick?why not beat the gay next to u in ur job?

    • Again, why Iant the grunt with a live in girlfriend allowed to receive base housing and other privileges only reserved to marriages recognized by our Federal Government? This is not a civil rights issue, it’s against most religions and our ever perverting society all of the sudden wants to fix something that isnt wrong or broken. It’s not a matter of you not doing yoir job, it’s a matter of following the guidelines and regulations adheres by the rest of the military. Have you read article 125 (Sadomy) of the UCMJ. By allowing homosexuals to serve openly, we are encouraging service members to violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Is that what we want to happen?

    • La_maripoza says:

      thanks for your service lee, you show more intestinal fortitued the "YourMomma"

    • You need to go back to school . your vocabulary SUCKS!!

    • REPENT IT'S A SIN .GOD LOVES YOU BUT NOT WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

  108. I'll tell you right now that first fag that is my roomate is the first fag this will go out the fucking window

  109. Reality is many people with homosexual feelings can’t handle the close environments and choose to get out. What happens when they can’t?

  110. I am posting this for my boyfriend in order to protect his identity:

    “How about serve with honor, honor that we do not have under DADT. How can I have honor within myself if I have to lie about who I am every day? How about integrity, can’t have that under DADT if I have to hide and lie abot who I am. Here is a big one for me, how about serving without fear, the fear that if I am “found out” that I will loose my job. That’s just a few things right off the top of my head.”

    MY COMMENTS:

    I saw the stress it caused him while serving in Iraq, trying to hide who he is. It was especially difficult when he returned to Iraq after leave and everyone was talking about all the girls they banged on leave, while he couldn’t discuss how he spent a wonderful time with the one man he loves! Please repeal DADT!

  111. 20 Year Marine, deployed 7 1/2 years out of 20. In a two year period I was home for 4 months. My 2 year old daughter asked me if I was her Daddy when I walked in the door. Don't talk to me about stress! Talk to me about personal sacrifice for your country without whining and complaining about your stress level or what your country can give to you. Grow up and be a man! Grab a tool box and get your ass out there and fix that plane. I could care less what your sexual preference is.

    Gunny

    • La_maripoza says:

      thanks for your service Gunny, been there done that. My kids thought they had another daddy when Jody was in my home while I played frkn hero.
      It took some time but I regained them.
      I took my tool kit and went where needed to do what needed to be done.
      BTW, I'm gay. Tell me more about sacrifices.

  112. I think what concerns me most about repealing this ban is this: in the last 15 hours there have been 250 some odd NEGATIVE comments. Ignorant, self-indulged, NAIVE comments from people both that serve or HAVE served. Will allowing openly gay persons serve in the military effect the norm . . . absolutely. Will we eventually get used to it? Absolutely. I think the hardest part is going to be controlling the individuals already serving that are completely against the repeal.

    I've been in 7 years. I'm not naive enough to think that some of the men and women I've served with were homosexual. I'm not ignorant enough to lay claims to what will or won't happen in the near and distant future. But I am concerned that there are persons (as illustrated by some of the comments I've read) that will advocate against this to the extreme. Good Soldiers that excel and are worthy of promotions/special duty assignments getting shafted (no pun intended) by narrow-minded "old school" leadership just because a Soldier may be gay.

    • I don't care about housing . . . there are enough issues with housing with all of the straight married military members. I'm worried about the outrage within the Soldiers that find out that they're behind a gay couple in line for housing because they can't see passed the sexual preference barrier.

      • I'm not worried about the gay man or woman in the open bay trying to sexually harrass Soldiers or the same sex in the middle of the night . . . I'm worried about the narrow-minded Soldiers that find out a Soldier is gay beating them in the middle of the night.

        I, for one, am in a pickle, honestly. I feel that this should be repealed for reasons of equal rights. But I'm scared. Not for myself, my family or my children . . . but for the homosexual men and women that are proud enough to come out and say it and what may happen to them. The SFC that's been in for 17 and has 3 years left until retirement that decides to "come out" and has his/her Soldiers act blatantly insubordinate towards them just because they're gay.

        The MSG that never gets a lateral promotion to 1SG because "a gay 1SG can't effectively run a company".

        • This is an obvious statement but this repeal doesn't just effect the gay community. It adds a completely new dynamic to the SMs that have served for a while that are used to a standard. Do you honestly think that new modules in EO training are going to suddenly make your Platoon Sergeant not discriminate against an openly gay Soldier? Do you think the people that crack jokes about gays are going to suddenly stop? Do you think the gay Soldier that hears those jokes is going to continute to NOT report those instances?

          If I absolutely had to pick a side, right now, I'd probably side with not repealing DADT. In 7 years of service I've seen plenty of things that are wrong with the military . . . so the old adage that "if it ain't broke don't fix it" inversely applies . . . things are running (albeit poorly, at times) now how they are, don't shatter them.

          Ideally . . . this should be grandfathered. I feel awful for saying this but Soldiers that are currently serving on an indefinite reenlistment should still be subject to DADT. Unfortunate, yes, but it could be a necessary evil.

    • Veteran Navy Wife says:

      Welcome to reality and the real world, a person can be terminated from a job for no good reason and it is not a national crisis. Reality is there are those who just will not like a person and not recommend them for a promotion, welcome to life. You want to come out of the closet and serve openly, then take the consequences as some of us who are Christians and have our personal standards, will do our best to not judge but there is that factor of knowledge and it can impact a persons choice. It is called human nature and even in the civilian job you will see the same thing. Can you claim discrimination? maybe, but reality is most people are good regardless of their choices and they will assess a person for their job, not their sexual encounters in bed.

  113. Soldiers that are on their first term or just entering the military . . . go for it. Even though I've only seen 7 years of Soldiers . . . the US Soldier has changed siginificantly in that time frame ranging from a lack of respect to obesity to downright laziness. But the Army has managed to cope and make do. Let the new influx of Soldier "bring in" homosexuality and let them decide (while they still only have "x" number of years to serve) if the military has accepted this repeal and if it's the right lifestyle for them.

    Again, I'm for the repeal, but unfortunately I fear that there are enough people against it that the repercussions could be adverse.

  114. enginehouse2417 says:

    . As I said before, WE CIVILIANS NEED TO MAKE NOISE; IF YOUR HEROS, PAST AND PRESENT ARE NOT CARED FOR, THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE LESS SO–GAY OR STRAIGHT. I HAVE WRITTEN MY CONGRESSMAN ABOUT THIS ISSUE; I HAVE PUT UP FLYERS AROUND MY LOCAL CHURCHES ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED. WE ALL NEED TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OUR SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN, GAY OR STRAIGHT, AND THEIR FAMILIES, WHOMEVER THEY MAY BE. MIKE

  115. im thinking of buying stock in,soap on the rope..

  116. Many have made the argument that the sexual preference of the person is not important and only the work they do is. But in the military u are asked to share extremely person quarters and work spaces from open showers to sleeping in the same rack or working inches from another person. How can anyone outside the military say there shouldn’t be a DADT policy because it is not politically correct. The fact is there not the one put in the situation.

    U could argue saying as a gay man that u have no attraction to the straight fellow service men u work for ,but u would be lying to say none of the gay men are attracted to them. Intact a handful enjoy attending to “turn” a straight guy to perform a gay act. Until the day the military decides to fully intergrate no longer seperating men and women then there is no way a straight man should be forced to life with homosexuals and share all the facilities.

  117. La_maripoza says:

    have you considered that you now have quality because there are LGB serving?

  118. Ironhand USMC says:

    So there are some of you out there in cyber land that have difficulty with my Old English manner of my postings. Here is what I can do for you right now.
    Any American may live their life as it suites them, as long as they do not violate the Laws Of The Land here in the good ole USA. Now some people do not know what that actually means, so here you go. Everyone knows that if you hold up a bank at gun point, break into someones home, rape, assault, or violate someones Constitutional Rights, etc, etc, then you are in fact breaking the Law Of Our Land here. I would think that my choice of wording here, is more western world, than Old English. If I am going too fast for a select few of you out there in cyber land, please speak up, and I will go as slow as the slowest person, so that all will be able to grasp what I am posting here. This DADT issue is a Political Hot Potatoe, and nothing but that. When all the yelling is over with, and DADT is repealed, and I am fairly certain that it will be, Mr. Obama will have succeeded in keeping his promise.

  119. Ironhand USMC says:

    With regard to DADT eventually being repealed, Mr. Obama and his band of Liberals will have one heck of a party whe this is accomplished. As for the amount of money which will have been spent in getting DADT repealed and implimented throughout our country's military, well there is yet another portion of the already out of control national debt, which the working class of Americans will have to shoulder. Oh boy, I can hardly wait. Repealing DADT is not just an issue which didn't need to be addressed right now, but what the heck, allow the Mr. Obama and all his Liberal minded types to keep piling more and more on the already full plate of the citizens of our country. We're Americans, we can take it, no matter how much, or how questionable it may be, keep piling the crap on why don't ya.

  120. La_maripoza says:

    MJB, go clean the beer cans out of your double wide and try to remember that imbreeding produces stupid children; too late.

  121. Ironhand USMC says:

    There are NO Statesmen in any of the positions which the present people had been elected to, not a one. There are some elected officials who may from time to time speak as if they are Statesmen, and they may even appear to be Statesmen like on occasion, but that is about all that is left in America's elected positions within our country's governemntal body. This type of elected official has filtered down to the townships, city, county and state levels across our country. How sad this is, really, how sad indeed. Whether or not a certain item would be good for all Americans, takes second seat to that which would is not so good for all Americans, at all levels of government nationwide. So what corrective action may be taken by the citizens of America, outside of when it is time to re-elect/elect someone. Does anyone out there in cyber land have an answer to this question?

  122. DADT was a quiet way for protection of the gay man in the military. With it now out in the open for everyone, don't say we told you so. There will be more beatings than ever before. Just watch. Homosexuality is a social stigma that will always be. I'm sorry guys and girls. That's just the way the world is.

  123. Marine1952 says:

    This debate is typical of this day and age I guess. Hey… we've got the strongest, most efficient and most successful military in the history of the world and they have defended this Nation since 1775 by governing themselves and functioning within their own laws and rules. So why change what works? Because a handful of liberals and special interest groups want to make noise and see what other things they can change to suit their "way of life". The majority of service men and women are there to serve their Country and are willing to do so in accordance with the laws and rules of the United States Armed Forces. Stop trying to change what has worked perfectly fine for over 200 years and allow the Armed Forces, not Capitol Hill, to set military standards. If you enlist in the Armed Forces you so do so with the understanding, you are there to serve them, they are not there to serve you. You want to have a gay military? Start your own gay military but leave the United States military alone. If it ain't broke…don't fix it!
    Semper Fi…

  124. Ironhand USMC says:

    I do not believe that ignorance in and of itself is the total issue, when it comes to Homosexuals not being widely accepted. Ignorance can, and usually is overcome through education. The issue of Homosexuality goes past normal education main streams. For so many people here in our country, me included, it is a Morality issue. It is how so many Americans are hard wired, due to when we were growing up. For a great many Americans, religion played such a huge role in how many Americans, including me, view Homosexuality. What I have poisted here is not an excuse, but rather a viable explaination.

  125. Ironhand USMC says:

    For those of you out there who have read some of my postings, and you did not like what you had read, I offer no apology for my choice of words, other than when I had left out a letter, or mis-spelled a word. My thoughts and view points are my own, and rightfully so, just like all of you out there in cyber land.
    For those of you who may have gotten P'd off at what I had posted, or were not sure where exactly I was coming from, believe me people, there was a time in my life, when I would have cared less for your opinion of what I hade said. Back in the day, if I genuinely wanted anyones opinion, I simply would have given it to them. So today, with this DADT issue sitting front and center before us, it will certainly be on the fore front, at least for a little while.

  126. Ironhand USMC says:

    Everyone has an opinion, or view point about something which is happening in, and for our country. Today, this week, it is the repealing of the DADT policy. Tomorrow it will be something else all together. What should remain in plain view for all of us here in America, is what we need to do in order to get our country back to what it once was, before this, and past administrations were aloowed to screw up our country, in more ways than just the fiscal. America use to be the land where everyone dreamed of coming to. If anyone cares to check it out, this is not the case today, as it was in years past. Our country's Dollar does not hold its own around the globe like it use to, and this is a shame people My biggest fear is that I will live to see the America which is my brith right, come crashing to her knees, because WE had not acted in such a manner, which would stop this from happening to begin with.

  127. Ironhand USMC says:

    One person can not change what has happened to our country. One voice is only so loud. I do not like what has happened to the America which I grew up in, fought for, and live within her borders today. There is so much that has gone wrong in our country, and the end of these wrongs is not in sight, from my stand point of view. If we do not fix what is broken within our country, then our children and grand children will be saddled with having to do, what we failed to get accomplished, and this is another thing which would be wrong.
    It is my belief that with enough hard work, most all of what has gone down hill here in our country, can be corrected, and set on a righteously positive pathway. The decision to get our country back on her feet is ours to make, and ours to do, and do now, without further delay.

  128. Ironhand USMC says:

    "We The People" of America, have a duty to bring our country back from the brink of total fiscal failure. We have a duty to get people back to work, by getting the jobs back in our country, and not out sourced overseas. We have a duty to protect our country, and keep her safe for all who live within her borders. We have a duty to our fellow Americans safe and secure, no matter where they may be around the globe, but especially right here on the home front. We as Americans can not wait for our government to safe guard our borders, or to stop the Terrorists from invading our country. This task is far too big, for just our governmental body to take care of. We as Americans have the right and the duty to stop those who would do our country harm, no matter where that harm comes from. Finally, we as Americans have the obligation to take care of our fellow Americans right here in our own country, before we extend our hand to help others around the globe.

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      See there you go again…. Your trying to maximize the effect of your arguement through fear. Today's topic…economy. Now the DADT policy will be the straw that broke the camels back, or as you're drumming it up to be, the lead anvil that broke the camels back. This tactic has been implemented by nearly every conservative mind in recorded history. You're flirting with the 'reactionary' line on this one my Marine friend. You must be conscious about that at some level. Whether it be saying that your rights are going to be stripped away from you, or the economy will fail because of this piece of legislation, it is simply the implimentation of fear that drives your opinion, arguement, and well….your entire life to this point. Become enlightened Ironhand. Open your mind and your eye's and view the world outside of that tunnel that you look through everyday. If you want to bring religion to the table.. if you want to show up to a debate with a fictitious book by your side, Im afraid your going to have to do better than that. Though I'm an athiest, I have read the bible several of times. I would make you look silly, as i have come to find out that christians have little knowledge of their own faith, they know what they are spoonfed every Sunday, and do a great job quoting bible verses that best suite their needs, though few have ever read and objectively analysed it.

      • Ironhand USMC says:

        For the record, "I Don't Flirt"! What I have posted is correct, from my view point and first hand experience. The citizens of our country would be well advised to Stop bantering about the issues, which actually affect each and every American, regardless of your station within our country, including you Sir.. I do not react to anything, nor have I ever. Where I reside, we have many people coming across the border here, and there are many of these people, who's status is far from being just Illegal Immigrants. I have experienced first hand, unwanted and uninvited people entering our home in the middle of the night. This MARINE countered this INVASION by "ACTING", not reacting to a darn thing. I did what was required to counter the threat before me, PERIOD!!! Before you slam anything else which I have, or may post, try living out here in my neck of the woods for a while, and maybe, just maybe, you will recognize that there are many elements within our country which are not nice, and happening right now.

      • Ironhand USMC says:

        Question for you. Have you ever served in any of our country's military services? If so, which branch, and for how long, career, or Non-Career? Were you an Officer, Mustang Officer, Warrant Officer or Enlisted? Do you have any on going communication with anyone who is presently on active duty, regardless of the military branch of service? Do you have any relatives who are presently serving on active duty, Guard or Reserve military duty?

        • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

          Currently active duty, 5 years TIS

          • Ironhand USMC says:

            Active Duty of what branch??? So in 5 years you will have completed at least 20 years creditable service toward retirement, Yes??? Are you Enlisted or Officer??? What do you do in your military branch of service??? Are you CONUS east coast, central plains, west coast, or Non-CONUS states, or overseas??? What do you plan on doing when you are able to retire from the military???

  129. This is just the gay communities way of trying to legitimize their sexual preference so that they can try to make it nationally legislated in every state that they can have the right to marry and be treated the same as real married couples benefit wise in our constitution. It's their way in through the back door since the front door didn't work for them over the years. If they really wanted to serve in our military, they would keep their personal lives and professional lives seperate. As far as benefits- when the USA legislates in all states that homosexuals can get married- then give benefits. Before that- the military is just giving selective benefits. Giving homosexual "spouses" benefits would add up to the same as the military offering benefits to a fiance if the military gives benefits to homosexual spouses. Which is nonexistent for straight couples who have to actually marry to get benefits. Like I said, benefits should be given in the military not one day before it's legal in all states for homosexuals to get married. How much you wanna bet that since all states don't offer that right now, the military will give "partners" a pass and benefits?

  130. Ironhand USMC says:

    For all those out there in cyber land, who have read my previous postings, you may want to read my last 3 or 4 postings, and then readjust yourselves, as afr as your opinion of this American Patriot. There are many aspects of what our country is going through right now, which does not set well with me at all. Taking care of all Americans, no matter where they may be around the globe, is always first and foremost on my list to do. Americans taking care of our own, prior to extending that helping hand to others around the world, this is what I believe we as Americans must do for our countrymen and women, always! If there is anyone out there in cyber land who disagrees with this plan, then please speak up, and present your plan, or get yourselves on board, and let us get the job done.

  131. Ironhand USMC says:

    I do apologize for the mis-spoelled words in my previous postings. Thank You all for your attention.

    "Semper Fidelis"

  132. I understand that all the military needs is a marriage certificate so I didn't mean to insinuate that the military would give homosexuals a pass. What I meant was wondering if it's not legal in most states for homosexuals to marry, how do all the homosexual military couples plan on legitimizing their marriage to the military if not legal in their state? Fly to vegas or a state that says it's legal for homosexuals to marry and then give that certificate to the military?

  133. I am not worried about sharing government housing with homosexuals or benefits. If they establish that right in the USA's leaders eyes and it's written into national law, then fine. I won't have a problem with them having benefits. I don't agree with their preferential choice to be homosexual. I do think this repeal is their way to try to justify to the USA that if it's okay for the military, it's okay for all 50 states. Hence, insinuating the back door entrance. I really believe that personal and professional life should remain seperate until the USA says in all 50 states that it's okay to marry for them.

  134. My main concern is that in an instance where people of different origins may scream, discrimination when in trouble for something, that the homosexuals may use scream discrimination to get their way on something or get into trouble. Believe it or not, in other cases of race, sex, religion, etc- it's worked for them as an excuse in the past- why wouldn't the homosexual community try to use it to gain their way too? As long as this is truly just a "right to be gay", rather than a " give me my way or else " circumstance. I am okay. I don't dislike homosexuals. I don't under any circumstance think their way of life is okay but that is their perogative and I will never bully them for it, but I do have a right to say I don't agree with their lifestyle choice just as they have a right to tell me of their lifestyle choice and say they don't agree with mine being married to the opposite sex.

  135. Bring on the reparations. Uncle Sam has been discriminating against Lesbian and Gay people long enough. Every service member who has been booted out for being gay deserves reinstatement, back pay, benefits and increase in rank due them.

    Ditto for every Gay American who has been denied equal tax benefits, spousal pension and social security.

    Screw discrimination!

  136. With so many other issues we have in the good ol U.S.of A like False Flag ops and puppet GOVT. This whole idea of letting the type’s that so choose such a perverse and disgusting lifstyle to openly serve in our great nations armed services is truly a sad set of events. As a MAN having served and now continuing to serve as a civillian maintaining some our great nations flying machines, it is absolutely disusting and a sever sacrilege to see a openly gay “for lace of a better word” service member in uniform let it be known that they are flamming! How as a great nation can we project a strong military if they are out in the open. What’s next PINK TANKS, HELICOPTERS, AND JETS? Or better yet how about a round of pink uniforms for everyone. SICKOS! If you wan’t to serve great just do us all a favor and keep your mouths shut, your sick lifstyles to your selves, uniforms squared away, and act like a man or woman in uniform! DADT stay’s. Take the red pill and go to infowars.com, or keep taking the blue one and remain sheep.

  137. These are just my opinions. Not trying to inflame anyone. Even though I don't believe in some things, I do submit to the authority of our leaders. I don't have to like it, but I will respect it and everyone I come in contact with. God says in the Bible that being homosexual is a sin. I try my best to live by God's word every day in the way that He intended it. If my authority leaders say that being homosexual in the military is okay. I will respect their authority. Like I said, I don't have to like it, but like most everyone else… I will respect their authority.

    • Mustang03Ret says:

      Heather – You are free to believe in any god you can conceive. However, our country is not a theocracy, hence the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, which prohibits the government from establishing, endorsing, preferring, or outlawing any religion. This means that it does not matter what any supposedly holy scripture "Bible, Koran, Torah, etc.) says, it has no place in a discussion regarding public policy.

    • Mustang03Ret says:

      As an aside, do you know how the Bible came to be? In 325 AD 250-318 christian religious leaders met in a congress calle the Council of Nicea. (This is where the Nicene creed came from).

      Actually, they met in several sessions, sort of like having several sessions of our own Congress. In the course of those meetings the Bible as we know it was largely formed. It was not handed down from God. It was not revealed through presentation of sacred texts. No, it was VOTED on. These representatives VOTED to determine what scriptures were holy (most of those written by men were determined to be good) and which were not holy (including all texts/books/scriptures authored by women).

      God had nothing to do with this man-created Bible. The guys just decided what they wanted in the thing and then afterward claimed that because they had put it together it was ordained by God. One consequence of this gender-based power grab is that women have been subjugated and diminished for almost all of the the nearly 1700 years that followed.

      Question authority – it is a crucial part of participation in our government, and as high a form of patriotism as any other.

  138. Oh by the way, Kudos to McCain for bringing up that this was the wrong time to bring this subject up in a lameduck session because the unemployment rate and taxes should have taken precedent to be discussed and this could have waited until next year.

  139. I hope my last comment wasn't deleted because it was politically incorrrect. I mentioned that when I was in Vietnam we had a person in our unit that "visited" several of us at night. After he got to me, being straight off the farm, I was unable to sleep. My effectiveness was definately compromised. I was having hallucinations due to lack of sleep. I don't know how often these things happen but they do happen. I suppose most gays would say that my
    negative exprerience is of no importance in the face of promoting diversity and political correctness. The world is so much different now. When I served the top priority was to have an effective military. Now it is more important not to offend someone, or certain someones. I haven't noticed any objections when Christians are insulted. I am opposed to gays in the military. I have empirical evidence that not all gays can control themselves. I think one incident like I experienced is too many, but I guess I'm an acceptable casualty, so to speak.

  140. I would. I don't agree with it either way. ANY act of sodomy is wrong.

  141. what male wants a homsexual doctor doing his prostate exam, or asking him to cough a couple of times? the govt is knowingly and purposely creating a hostile work environment, forcing this down the throats of over 30% of its force; in addition to shower and toilet issues, there are MOS issues; then there are retirement benefit issues and all the others that fall over into the Department of Veterans Affairs. The issue has not been fully thought thru, though about as much as govt dopes normally do; remember that only about 20,000 folks supported the ban while the silent majority, over 300,000,000, are opposed. Those in favor and who have the power to change the policy/law will not be serving with homosexuals. Keep the ban.

  142. RealFacts says:

    So a straight male is can't shower/dorm with straight females, correct?

    It's not if the male finds the female attractive or viceversa. It's about having the ablilty to relax in your room. Even if I was attracted to the female in the room I might not want to room/shower with her. Nor would I impose the stress on her. As she has a right to privacy. Then if the rare chance both sides like each other -we would now have sexual tension and perhaps action in thr barracks/shower.

    Revert to name calling if you must. But I am no more homophobic about showerig with a male than I am youngtightredheadphobic in that i also don't want to shower with young redhead females. Also fatphobic and I don't want to shower with fat females.

    To argue that straight males can't room with females becuase they attack- is absurd. Fact is males who are gay are the highest sexually active group.

  143. ARE YOU KIDDING, this is 2010. Gays are not after your kids, you jerk. Your thinking is that from the 1950's.

    • I didn't say that you Queers were after our children, I said you malfunctioned idiots would present a negative impact on our children & grandchildren…and you have you mental & emotional pervert!

  144. What now? I was in the USMC during the early '60's. Then you were not allowed to be in the service if you were gay. After that DADT, which I think is fine. If you are willing to fight for your country……
    Now gays serving openly? Who passed that? Who want to take shower with a Homo? If I was in the service now I wouldn't take a shower.
    You know now that it is open some Homo is going to take two hour showers. Give them their own barracks. If they want to poke and suck all nite, just don't do it around me.
    Let me say this so. They would probably be a good fighting outfit, just to prove they are as good as the next guy.

  145. diappointed says:

    so, let me get this right….you are saying that people who are different than you, ie. lesbian/gay do not have honor , courage or commitment?? What a sad comment?? WHO ARE YOU TO SAY IT IS WRONG?? I didn't realize that GOD was going to be commenting on this story. AND….to answer those questions " Would a drug addict be able to serve? Would a felon?" YES AND YES….If you don't think they are serving you are mistaken. However for you to even relate these with someones sexuality is so crazy. It is people with your kind of close minded beliefs that shouldn't be serving. There is NO place in the military for discrimination. Where you not taught anything??

    • What about discrimination against me? I believe in God and morals. Am I to understand that you can discriminate against my beliefs, but I cannot even disagree with yours? Am I to be disciminated against (and insulted) because of my having a religious code? Apparently, this is OK since you are doing the discrimination and not me.

  146. diappointed says:

    REALLY?? Don't flatter yourself!!!! Why do you all think that just bc someone is gay they are going to be attracted to YOU?? Wow.

    • Active Duty says:

      Whether or not a homosexual roommate is attracted to you isn't the argument, and (I hope) you are smart enough to know that.

      We (the military) segregate berthing by gender. There is a reason for that. It is called maintaining good order and discipline.

      The problem is the EO argument.
      Right now, I can't go to the wardroom officer or berthing Chief and say I don't want to bunk with someone who is black, or hispanic, or Catholic, or Jewish, etc. And rightfully so. Race and religion are protected from discrimination, as they should be.

      Can I ask for different berthing because my roommate is homosexual? Or should that CHOICE become a protected category as well? Sure there would be "equality" at the cost of victimizing the heterosexuals who would not be comfortable bunking with/ changing clothes with/ or showering with someone who MIGHT be more interested in them than they should be.

      Whose rights are more important?

    • massgirlnow says:

      Dear disappointed, It has nothing to do with attraction, it has a lot to do with confinement of space and loneliness while deployed or TDY. I've seen judicial action brought on personnel who have had inappropriate relationships while deployed and/or TDY and clearly attraction was NOT a factor.

  147. created2cater says:

    Wow, there are many angry points of view on this thread and the real issue has yet to be discussed. It's not about gay or straight. It's not about DADT or freely expose your lifestyle. It's not about homophobic or not. It's not about how many soliders, sailors, or airmen have died that are gay or straight. The only issue to decide here is if "partners" receive benefits, what keeps boyfriends or girlfriends from partaking as well. Not married is not married across the board. If gay couples are recognized as couples and receive benefits then what's next? Common-law marriage would have to be recognized as well. If "couples" receive benefits then this would include those that are dating as well? I don't understand at what point this would end. I have no problem with people being gay, but the issue still remains, where is the cutoff point going to be now?

  148. Joe Brown says:

    From a retired SgtMaj, this should not happen. Gays do not belong in our military and they rate NOTHING.

  149. The fools in the Pentagon better reconfigure all the common shower areas on the bases into individual shower stalls with doors. This homophobe does not have any desire to be showering with a known, avowed faggot.

  150. Proud Soldier says:

    DADT needs to be removed. Any Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, or Marine worth their salt, is taught to be a disciplined defender of our constitution and uphold the Values of there branch of service. After serving 16 years already, and plan on serving many more, I have known, eating chow, showered, slept, and gone to war with so many homosexuals, that I lost count.

    • Proud Soldier says:

      Moreover, I don't care. What they did in their off time was their business, not everyone else's. When they were at work, they did there job, exactly like I did! With honor and integrity. They were Soldiers! If this is lead by the top down, I don't see the issues! When they allowed blacks to serve, there were troubles at first, but the service's got over it. When woman were allowed to serve, the same thing happened. They are just men and women who want to serve their country. Stop caring so much that your roommate is going to attack you, because it just doesn't happen like that. Homosexual tendences are the same hetro. It's not a mind control drug that takes over your body. I'm 34 years old, and grew up around the military. In every school, post, and playground I knew gays that I grew up with. Sexual preference needs to be placed right along the rest of EO statements that can not be used against anyone.

  151. " He that complains the most shows his guilt…" Anti-gay members believe their world will be turned upside down if gays are allowed to serve. There are a few dinosaurs that truly believe that homosexuality is an abomination, but they may have an incident in their childhood.It's fear of change that motivates the naysayers. All change is painful to an extent, even change for the better.
    The military is supposed to reflect the social structure and demograhics of the country it serves. There's always been a portion of service members that were gay. If gays are so detrimental to effective leadership and an adverse affect on subordinates, how do we explain Alexander the Great? Do we say he conquered his world by military brilliance, but his homosexuality prevented him achieving total world domination? The guy never made his sexual preferences a secret, yet his tactics are taught at every war college on the planet.
    Personnally, I'm a straight grunt from the Army that married a lady Marine. My wife and I would rather serve with/under an openly gay sevice member than a narrow minded, bigoted fool that refuses to accept the world as it truly is.IF we frag the fag, we frag the flag!

  152. Old VN Vet says:

    The Pentagon has grown into a out of control lethargic beauracratic cow since 2001 and is not winning anything by fighting. They win by inundating the opposing country with money and favors and so called diplomacy from their weak step sister, the US State Department. Allowing the change in DADT will only increase the burden of expenses it costs to supply one combat man at over $1 million dollars a year to a battle field. The US has a deficit of almost $14 trillion right now. Oh, wait, news flash. As of yesterday the extension of the Bush tax cuts added $2 more trillion to that deficit by 2012. One thing is certain in military life. You will eventually leave the military and live amonst us and may look for jobs.

  153. I served proudly and I have encouraged my son to join the Navy after College. I have now changed my mind, The Military Is not what it once was. I’m sick by the thought that these changes can cause. What about the person who does not want to share barracks ? What about the sailors who live i’n close rack space on board ship? Do we have the right to say ” we don’t want to share rooms with a lesbian or gay man? Can I tell the housing dept that Ivhave children and that i want to make sure i live next to a mom and dad and not two men or women. I will never ever allow my children to go to ANY home with two moms and two dad. I teach my children that this type of life Is Wrong and it’s not ok to be gay. If God intended for two men or two women to be a family he would have made it possible for them to have thier own children ( Which Is impossible) Shame on who Is allowing this disgusting Law to pass and run away straight men and women. What happens when gay military people who are cross dressers want to wear military clothing of the other sex? Can those cross dressing men go into the womens restrooms? This Is sick! If the military have to spend more money to have restrooms and barrack or ship space for gay people, this will cost the government plenty of money (That We Don’t Have)

    • Truth-101 says:

      You stated it correctly. This is not about rights, but about force. They have the right to be a sodomite, however, they or anyone else in this world do not have a RIGHT to join any branch of military not matter what life style they live.

      We are not stringing up sodomites on trees or dragging them behind cars, we are just stating that they are not allowed to join the military.

      You sodomites are trying to force your way of life on us, and we don’t want it.

      Listen, you sodomites are so vain, that you think that your sexual preferences define the person you are. Wow! You people are base animals.

  154. You who are for DADT repeal say gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military AND your premise is that there are homosexuals already IN the military – just unknown. Now for my question – WHAT is the difference between a woman who is believes she is talking with, friends with and rooms with a woman…ONLY to find out when she’s in the shower it was a transvestite MALE she was friends with? Do you think she would have NO problems showering with him? Or how about explaining what the difference is between how uncomfortable a woman would be showering with a male…and a straight male showering with a homosexual male? Oh I know you say, well what makes you think the homosexual male will be looking at the straight male? Ok…so what makes the females think the males will be looking at THEM? The POINT is, it DOESN’T MATTER if they look at other person or not…the PERCEPTION and fear is they WILL look – THAT is the crux of the problem. So if you are going to FORCE straight males and females to shower and room with openly homosexual people, then ALL should shower in ONE shower and room regardless of sexual orientation OR sex! Equal rights!

  155. Why does the homosexual community run around flaunting their same-sex preference? Do they see the heterosexuals running around flaunting their attraction to the opposite sex…NO!!! Preference and relationships should stay in the bedroom. Once you leave the door of whatever structure you live in relationship and preference should be left there and not brought into the Military workplace. If heterosexuals don't go around talking about their relationship or preference why can't homosexuals.

    • Mustang03Ret says:

      UT Bugler – What do you mean when you talk about homosexuals flaunting their same-sex preference?

    • All the people who like to hate on gay people should open a history book and see why it is so wrong. First if I were gay, I would not pay this country one f*@k red cent in taxes. So the real question is taxes without representation. This country was founded on that one principal. So gay people should stop paying taxes that other sorry ass Americans who benefit from the tax breaks from being marriage. I do not think anyone should have to pay for something that they have denied them because of whom they are.

  156. Proud Sailor says:

    I've served my country now for 14 years. I've served beside gay men and women all throughout my career with no issue. It was never a problem in the workplace, nor to mission. I've even spent quite a bit of time onboard submarines…and there were no gay men snatching open my curtain to my rack trying to get me, nor trying to get at me in the shower. Work got done, bad guys were destroyed. Whomever is willing to serve, fight, and die for this country can serve with me anytime. I'm not saying that I condone or understand or even WANT to understand the gay lifestyle, BUT…at the same time I will not hate on any gay man or woman either. Being a black man myself…it would seem strangely hypocritical to do so in my opinion seeing what black people had to go through in the past.

  157. This country was founded on GOD! We put “In God We Trust” on our money for a reason!! Our country has evolved to allow other races n cultures to live here and enjoy freedom as well. Yes, God doesn’t condone homosexuality, but there is too many religions now in our country. Does any of them condone homosexuality?? I think it boiLs down 2 COMMON SENSE!!!!!

    Whoever or Whatever our “creator” or “godsource” is, gave a man a dick and a woman a vagina for a REASON!!…to be able 2 enjoy sex and have children! “It” also gave us a digestive system with an ASSHOLE as an EXIT for our SHIT!!!!

    And yall wanna talk about IGNORANT jus bc u were “hurt” by someone of the opposite sex n found an ear 2 listen in the same sex and call it Love. What I just described in the paragraph above is IGNORANCE not 2 believe in it! Oh, but us as a society and nation are suppose 2 change our beliefs n constitution 2 condone your IGNORANCE! COWBOY UP and get over it!!! Military is full of a hell of a lot more hurt!! I’m not perfect and yes, I do have friends that are homosexual, but doesn’t mean I approve of their lifestyle or will ever not try my best 2 get them over their issues and realize the “truth”…COMMON SENSE!

    I’m a NICE guy and have helped people in the past that I shouldn’t have. “We” as a nation keep tryin 2 be NICE and change our constitution to allow more IGNORANCE in this country! There comes a time when u can’t be NICE or try 2 condone something bc u have a child or niece or friend who says they’re “homosexual”…You stand

    “F-I-R-M” because YOU are the LEADER, YOU are the PARENT, YOU are the UNCLE, YOU are the FRIEND that you SHOULD BE!!!!!

    Do this!…and our children and naïve hurt society will quit FOLLOWING AFTER IGNORANCE!!! COWBOY UP AND STAND FIRM!!!!!

  158. Marine1952 says:

    DADT….it's the right thing to do. DON'T mess with a 200 year tradition! The gays, Capitol Hill, liberals and the lawyers just need to butt out and leave the Armed Forces alone! Don't force people to accept your "lifestyle". Minorities should not rule majorities!

    • Mustang03Ret says:

      Marine 1952 – You are, in effect, advocating for a tyranny of the majority – otherwise known a mob rule. One of our most important founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, warned of this in his first inaugural address in 1801. He said, "Though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable;…the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression". If the majority were to always control, as you suggest, we would still have a racially segregated military, racially segregated schools, and women would still be prohibited from serving in the military.

  159. Why should 5 percent of the US poulation dictate to the military how to run the roster?

    • Marine1952 says:

      Because the 5% make all the noise trying to force the rest of us to accept their lifestyle. BS! The majority of people believe in the traditional lifestyle as set forth by the Bible and the laws of society and the military as it should be. Madelin O'Hare and her Satan worshipers made noise until they got prayer taken out of schools and want God removed from everything and the gays, the liberals and their lawyers are doing the same thing with this garbage.

  160. Simon Carson says:

    Alright, here’s my idea, to solve the whole gay rights thing. First off as christians or beleivers in God, it is not our place to judge the way other people live their lives. We may not like it, but what people do is between them and God. So looking at it from that perspective, the law should be made so that they can get married. They don’t have to be married by a preist, judges can do the same thing. On the other hand gay people shouldn’t throw up defense’s whenever God is mentioned just because some people think that they know his will. Christians who constantly throw the word at others whom they beleive are doing wrong, only dampen His glory. Your not going to change anything by shouting at people that they’re wrong.

    • Sodomites cannot produce the offspring benefit that a man and a woman can. A man and a woman are not guaranteed to produce, but there exist within a man women relationship as a whole, the ability to produce offspring, which is a benefit that the state acknowledges.

  161. Glad I am on my way out Instead of In,I don't think this Old world will have to worry to much longer what is going on, because it is on it's way out to.there will be war's in our own homeland, people are gathering gun's and ammo as fast as they can.My husband spent 26 years in the military, glad he is not here to see what is happening to our country,the United States has become a me,me me country, gather your gun's and ammo you will need them.

  162. DOD already has concerns with the military budget and now they add more to it.

    Better think twice about cutting benefits or adding cost due to this change.

    Once again a programs that is being extended beyond its original intent.

  163. Mustang03Ret says:

    Truth 101 Wrote: "Listen, you sodomites are so vain, that you think that your sexual preferences define the person you are. Wow! You people are base animals."

    Truth 101 – Apparently YOU think that one's so-called sexual preference defines who they are.

  164. Repeal DADT now. Let the effectS be shown before we elect another democrat to the whitehouse. Don’t let Obama fail you guys demand he follow up on his promise.

  165. If they are going to allow open gays in the military they should just have ONE shower room for all males and females, and might as well allow Males and Females share rooms!

  166. Don Retired-Navy says:

    The law is the law PERIOD!!!!! Don Retired-Navy

  167. Chuck Riley, USAF Retired.

    Chuck Riley, USAF Retired.

    I used my name, as I am a "PROUD RETIRED MILITARY GAY MAN". I live in and work in DC. I am out and own my own business. My husband is clergy and is out as well. I am a REALTOR, and do not hide who I am from my family, friends, neighbors, and clients. I am hired on my merit, knowledge of Real Estate and my reputation. I am and have been a top REALTOR since 1988. Thus, I am sick and tired of the religious Right and their politicians with other agendas using sexual preference as a WEDGE ISSUE. Being Gay or Non-Gay should have nothing to do with being able to serve or benefits. My opinion, this should not be at the top of military or government issue on the agenda. Bush and Cheney are gone, although their ilk are still in the Senate and the House.

    • Are you receiving retirement pay from the USAF? Has DODT been appealed yet? If not, doesn't admitting that you are a homosexual, and were a homosexual throughout your whole service career make it so you may be ineligible for your retirement pay from the military if someone where to report you?
      Mind you, this is just a question, because I honestly do not know the real answer.

  168. Chuck Riley, USAF Retired

    If a service member is Gay and in a committed relationship, married in the states that allow "Gay Marriage" , like DC, where my husband and I of 24+ years reside( we have been married since 2008), or Domestic Partners which is allowed in other areas – SHOULD BE GRANTED HE SAME RIGHTS AND PRIVILAGES AS NON-GAY SERVICE MEMBERS! The "Right" wants to ask someone to risk their lives for America, but wants them and their spouse to be 'SECOND CLASS CITIZENS" Remember that we went thru this with the color issue with the right to marry and to serve as an equal in the military!

  169. undressedemperor says:

    It also has no place in the workplace. That's why DADT works. I don't have to hear about anyone's sexual perversions, gay or straight.

    • massgirlnow says:

      Unfortunately thats true. Hetrosexuals don't typically discuss or project their love and affection for their partners in public but for some reason gays and lesbians have to "angrily or defiantly" prove their sexual preference. Keep it in the closet. Whatever happened to Palimony? That's the law given to those who have had a partner vice a spouse and want palimony or whatever they feel heterosexuals have!

  170. socraticus says:

    DADT currently keeps the homosexual problem in check. A repeal bodes ill for the future. Changes to military life will come slowly, but they will come, and they will be profound.

    Big problems will inevitably spring up – not right away, mind you, but gradually as homosexuals gain more influence in military matters.

    Be aware that homosexual activists have advanced their cause through social intimidation tactics. This will not cease. There will always be some issue about which homosexuals can object in order to acquire influence that will far exceed that to which they are entitled by their numbers.

    Observable displays of same-sex emotion are so repugnant to normal people that at first they will not only have to be banned for homosexuals, but also for heterosexuals in order to preclude homosexual challenges based on discrimination. More speech codes will be implemented to ensure that homosexuals don't feel they're in a hostile work environment. Social behavior codes will force personnel to create a welcoming environment for homosexuals. Actions of superiors will create the illusion of fairness, but in reality the affirmative action mentality will prevail.

    Religious attitudes and teachings toward homosexual behavior will not be tolerated. Failure to include homosexuals in social groups or activities will be considered discrimination and subject to punitive action. Making fun of effeminate characteristics in men or masculine characteristics in women will not be tolerated and will be subject to punitive action. Any negative associations with regard to homosexuality in personal conversations will not be tolerated and will be subject to punitive action. New tolerance for transsexuals and transvestites. Accomodations will be required for such proclivities.

    Homosexual indoctrination sessions will be mandatory. They will be called education. Look for homosexual acceptance to be praised, while objections to such behavior is ridiculed as ignorant, bigoted, and uneducated. Empathy and acceptance will be required for all abberant sexual behavior. Criticisms will include anything to keep hetrosexual personnel silent. Arguments regarding the claims made by instructors will not be tolerated.

    In short, military life for heterosexuals will become intolerable and will eventually lead to further lowering of standards as so frequently happens when a group characteristic elevates individuals to a protected status. By the time that is recognized it will be too late to take any action against it.

    • I wrote a lengthy reply to your post, only to have the website give me an error message. I will, therefore, be brief this time…just in case. I totally agree with your intelligent, rational, and informative post. We need to stop focusing so much on political correctness and start focusing on building an EFFECTIVE military. No wonder we haven't been successful in any war or "conflict" since WWII. My son is currently active duty is uncomfortable with the possibility he may be deployed with openly gay men. Because the military prefers image over substance and caters to so many special interest groups, I see no return to that effective force of the past. Maybe I should learn Chinese NOW.

  171. then couples who shack should also have benefits!!!!!!!!!!remember recognition of that "COMMON LAW" was repealed years ago so they get NOTHING. I believe this is something to think about.

  172. I love my Marine boyfriend! Oorah!
    Support ALL our troops.
    Repeal DADT.

  173. Homophobic people or people who are against gays in the military have no clue to what they are talking about. Just because a man is gay doesnt mean hes sexually attracted to every single male out there wether gay or heterosexual. For that reason is why i want to get out of the military because of the discrimination. At the current command i am at, there are alot of personnel who know of my life style and have no issue with me. I have served in Afghanistan for an entire year, worked with all branches of the US Military and would gladly have took a bullet for any of them. Not once did my life style come into play or was an issue for any of them. If men and women cant accept the fact that there are many homosexual men and women in the military, then i have lost faith in the military as a whole. Its not what i expected. So for that im getting out. Thanks.

  174. DON'T REPEAL. Ahhh, the warmth of spirited debate. The minority of gays who feel they are being oppressed against is simply put, amazing. Maybe we should throw away the entire UCMJ and go with whatever law applies in the state, region, area in which you serve. Let's go with the Norwegian method as well and get unionized so we get paid for each day we are in the field. So many possibilities of change, it's very exciting. Screw it, let's just abolish the military and settle this once and for all. Better yet, let's have a seperate service dedicated to Gays, Lesbians, BiSexuals, Transgenders, animal lovers, pedophiles, etc. Where does the list end. I would have added blow up dolls, but mine sprung a leak. You want repeal, it doesn't stop with gays, lesbians, transexuals, transgenders, bisexuals. The military will become the most fabulous (snap snap) place to work. You can do anything you want and no one will discriminate against you. Ohhhhhhh, the possibilities.

  175. Ironhand USMC says:

    For all of you out there in DADT repeal land, yesterday was December 7, and 69 years ago, the Japs attacked America, at Pearl Harbor Hawaii. Now I am sure that most of you out there is DADT land did not even bother to recognize that day, while you were going about your day in DADT repeal world. It was my Honor to sit and have a cup coffee with 2 Pearl Harbor survivors yesterday mid- morning. There were several of us younger Veterans there with those men who had been at Pearl Habor during the attack. Throughout the time which I had spent listening to these senior Veterans, the repeal of DADT was Not brought up, not even once, by anyone in attendance. Did any of you stop and think of all those who had layed down their life, 69 years ago yesterday. Think about it for a moment if you please, and perhaps you may all muster up a prayer, for those who had lost their lives's that day.

  176. If you repeal DADT, then you have to change the UCMJ. The UCMJ prohibits sodomy and conduct detrimental to good order and discipline to the armed services. Last I counted, a homosexual could be charged with at least eight (8) violations of the UCMJ. I am not a proponent of homosexuality. However, if we continue on this “LIBERAL” course of trying to allow homosexuals to serve openly, we undo what we have trained and fought so hard for; preservation of a nation so great that it does not number in the times of adversity.

  177. 20 Year Vet says:

    Yes. Sexual experimentation with your wife is one thing and I doubt a 10year married couple routinely back door it. A lifestyle that revolves around such deviant behavior defying most social, cultural, and religious norms is another case. Normal relations also causes no threat in an all male surrounding, locker room, berthing etc. A Gay Life is wrong no matter how long, which way, or whatever argument you pose. Society cringes from it, the Bible and most religions condemn it, and it's biologically and naturally wrong. So is promiscuity in general. That's why nature fights it with VD and AIDS…it's just immoral and bad period. I don't care how many arguments come forward .. a penis in a mans rectum is gross by any definition. Careless rampant promiscuity is just as bad. The political nonsense prevents truth to be used when discussing it and all the top brass and politician are spineless and just worried about image and thier pensions.

  178. Air Force Wifey<3 says:

    Make a gay branch of the military. Call it the Fairy Force :) That way the heterosexual men and women won't have to room with the gays, and the gays can all be together, working proudly for this country, but doing it OPENLY. PROBLEM SOLVED.

  179. Navy CHIEF says:

    If being gay was a proper way of nurturing and growing a family, then God would have made it possible for them to naturally achieve such. But since it is impossible for gays or lesbians to naturally reproduce, this accepted alternative lifestyle, being neither non-conducive nor pro-life, would mean the end of man-kind as we know it. Leviticus tells us that if a man lies with another man as one lies with a woman; both of them have done what is morally detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

    • Marine 1952 says:

      I'm glad someone else reads The Book…What God said. Don't like it, no one is making you stay here…you are free to leave and take your homosexual junk with you!

  180. First I would like to say that unfortunately this will all come to pass. Gays have served, and always will. Social lines have been eroding for years and the reason is because of the complancency of the American public. With enough time and voting power, as the gays have, you can get anything through Congress. Politicians will support anything if it will get them votes. There is no "good" or "bad". It's just what is decided by the majority, and sometimes not even then. It doesn't matter at all what we think. The govt asking us what we think is patronizing. They will decide what is good for us. Where will the eroding line stop is what I want to know? Looking ahead…it doesn't.

    • Marine 1952 says:

      You're right…it won't stop till the morality of this Country is gone. God and Prayer taken out of schools, our Armed Forces being forced to accommodate the homosexuals in direct opposition to the UCMJ and the military Code of Honor…I dread whatever is next!

  181. Mustang03Ret says:

    To ATOH and others: The "shacking up" argument fails because those heterosexuals who "shack up" choose to do so INSTEAD of marrying. Until those of us who are gay or lesbian have the right to marry we cannot be faulted for cohabitating without the benefit of marriage. Neither should we be treated disparately and denied equal opportunities and benefits because we cannot legally marry (or because DOMA refuses to recognize a gay marriage duly entered into in one of the states permitting it).

  182. Mustang03Ret says:

    Every service member swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Check out the Equal Protection Clause of te 14th Amendment and the many court cases interpreting it. Also check out the "Establishment Clause" providing for the separation of church and state, and the many case law decisions where it is cited. Though some may cherish selected Biblical passages for their anti-gay message, such as those in Leviticus, nowhere does the oath a servicemember takes require one to support and defend the Bible. Please try to make a cogent, articulate argument without citing criptural references in what is purely a public policy deate. (Hint: If you want to base arguments on religious scriptures, try doing so in a theocracy, such as Iran).

  183. FactsOnly says:

    A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.

  184. FactsAgain says:

    Handbook of Family Diversity reported a study in which "many self-described 'monogamous' couples reported an average of three to five partners in the past year. Blasband and Peplau (1985) observed a similar pattern

  185. I don't care who you sleep with, but I care about our country's defense. So, when a national emergency occurs that requires the draft……which of the male gays in a couple will be called to serve? Can either one claim, as in a heterosexual marriage with a female, that only one serves? What if one is disabled, but the other male is capable of serving? Can the healthy one opt out of the draft? What about a male couple that adopts children? Will they claim that one male must stay out of the service to care for the child? These questions need to be addressed before anything changes.

    In response to Mariposa Reply I added:

    I am saying that the law still requires every male to register for the draft. The male's only priority in this case is determined by the laws on the books. Females are not required to register even though many females volunteer, and make excellent soldiers, pilots, sailors. I figure that my wife can out shoot you on a pistol range, but she never had to register for the draft. The questions I raised have to do with two males having an obligation to serve. More discussion is warranted on the questions raised.

  186. I do not believe the “Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy” should be abolished. Because, if it is what would stop a friend of mine and I from looking around and saying “Hey! Look at these homosexuals getting married and getting a free house and we basically live in a dorm room when we could get a house by saying we are “life partners” and we become married. That doesn't make us homosexuals that means we are working the system to get what we want. Who is to say other people wont twist the rules and do the same, how could you determine if someone was truly homosexual or just playing the system because if a person truly wants something bad enough they will do anything to get it.

  187. splishsplashiwa says:

    This is obvious because everyone is taught it coming through bootcamp but SODEMY is illegal in the military. Is D.O.D going change those guide lines so i can go home and say "This aint your lucky night honey".?

  188. Some one asked for a quote. In about 10 minutes of searching I found this:

    Federal policies denied security clearances to lesbians and gay men until the 1980s and subjected gay applicants to intrusive questioning about their sex lives until the 1990s. Administrators argued that homosexuals made poor risks because of their susceptibility to blackmail, but the government has never made a strong public case for that claim. The courts rejected a charge of immorality as a legitimate basis for firing gay federal employees by the mid-1970s, but they deferred to administrative expertise on the issue of security risks even though arguments about blackmail and immorality have always been intertwined. Public opinion data from the 1990s shows that those who disapprove of homosexuality and would limit the civil liberties of gay people are much more reluctant to issue security clearances to them, providing further evidence that morality concerns work their way into at least some federal personnel decisions. Though Executive Order 13087 prohibits discriminating against federal employees on the basis of sexual orientation, the continuning high levels of disapproval of homosexuality suggest that eliminating such discrimination will be difficult.

    I know this isn't exactly what you asked but I have work to do on other items. I will ask this from another group and maybe they can give me a lot more specifics.

  189. Cowgirl Attitude says:

    I believe that who you love does not make a difference. I think that if you throw God in the mix for everything that alot of things would not be able to exist. Stop trying to judge people we are no different than anyone else. You people are not GOD and should not judge others it says in the bible that if you judge than you yourself is wrong. So take all the religious views out and stop putting them where they dont belong. That is your opinion not GODS my god is gracious and kind. So let it pass and let us life our lives and you pay attention to yours!!!

    • If we threw God into the mix for everything we would be so much better off , but you are right when you say we shouldn't judge others, but we should and must judge actions. I say "condem the sin but love the sinner". The Scriotures indicate that physical homosexual love is an abomination.(I'm glad I'm writing this rather than speaking it to a crowd of activists. A Canadian was beaten to death by a group of gay activists for showing them a Scripture, don't talk to me about not judging, he was condemned to death)
      I am beginning to wonder if the gay "lobby" would back off if it had certain knowledge that gays in the militery would degrade combat effectiveness.
      I suspect that the gay agenda is all that matters and too bad if it causes problems.

    • What about prostitution? Can I judge that choice?
      What about whores? Can I judge that choice?
      What about liars, cheats, burglars, killers, rapists? Can I judge them?

      The actions of people are judge everyday by everybody. When a gay male chooses to have hundreds to thousands of sexual partners then they can be judge for their ACTION. Straight people choose to not be so active for a reason. Those straight people that do whore around get judge as quickly.

  190. When political correctness and diversity are the top priorities of our military we are in trouble. When a minority can force their agenda over the majorities objections you know politics are involved. Like the issue of gun control , the cops on the street support individual gun rights. It is the politically appointed leadership that supports gun control. It's my understanding that the majority of our soldiers don't want to repeal DADT but the military leadership that is subject to politicians will repeal it and the folks in the trenches will pay the price if there are problems. What else is new? The politicians would disarm us(their bodyguards are not packing, right?) for the criminals and they would buy the gay vote by repealing DADT irreguardless of the unintended consequences. Politicians are always willing to put our money where their mouth is , so to speak. I was "visited" at night by a gay man and my combat effectiveness(Vietnam) was severly compromised by my inability to sleep after the 'visit'.
    I wonder how many others had my experience but were too embarassed to say anything. I know two myself.

  191. Those that were married, not partnered but actually "married" in states that allow it, I feel should be entitled to spousal benefits— and that includes housing allowance. However, I don't think they should be allowed onto base-housing. Not because I "don't want my children" around them or anything like that, but only because I do agree (especially in my own current fight with the housing office) that trying to get onto base-housing is way too competitive as it is. I know it sounds discriminatory to say I would rather not be competing with gay couples too, but it's just so hectic as it is.

    But in general, I am very open to the idea. And I am saddened to see that people, like my active duty husband for example, claim to have "nothing against gays" but don't want them serving alongside them. Why? Well I imagine for the only reason that my husband can find— because they're afraid of solicitation.

    So men can't put up with getting hit on by other men, but I can't begin to tell you how many single marines don't give two bits about the ring they see on a spouses finger and will hit on her anyways! I gather just as many gays will hit on straight men despite their status, just as I see the single men on base do to the women. And okay, I understand that they live with a bunch of other men and the men to women ratio in the service isn't spectacular, so they can't help but occasionally hit on a female, whether she's married or not. —But on the other side of the fence, can you blame a gay man who lives with a bunch of other straight men if he can't help but hit on one occasionally when the gay to straight ratio is also like that?

    As for religion, my general thought? Society as a whole has grown and changed and our views as per what is deemed "acceptable" have broadened, so who's to say that overtime God hasn't lightened up too? Afterall, the bible's pretty old, and I don't run across many folk who have a one-way telephone line to him to get his thoughts on the matter. Over the years the constitution has been amended to adapt. I'd like to think God's a pretty awesome guy and maybe, just maybe, he has too. Just sayin. ;)

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      Your "general thoughts" on religion is really laughable. That vengful monster that you worship has lightened up has he? Doesn't he usually do that to best suit your needs at the time? And when you run into one of those few people that have a direct line to god, tell them that I would like to experience this devine revelation.

      You seem to be stuck between your open minded self, and your Marine husbands unfortunate narrow view of the world. Not an uncommon thing for a wife of a Marine, just don't wake up one day and decide to start seeing things through the same tunnel that your husband does. Don't be one of those people that play the same song over and over again, and never get sick of it.

      • I don't think of God as a vengeful person (person, deity, whatever) and I get upset when people say he probably is and he'll, for example, "send the gays to hell" or something. What's the freaking point of free-will, right?

        You're right though, it really is hard to be a Marine wife and have your own thoughts and opinions while being married to someone who is IN the service and trying to respect theirs. =/

    • So you would be OK with your husband housing, sleeping, showering with females?

  192. Marriage is between the Church, the people being married and God. Since God said that marriage is between a man a a woman, there is no discussion here. Civil Unions are different. They do not involve God, they involve the State. The State cannot be involved with God, hence Marriage shall stay between men and women, and if a man and a woman want to have a civil union, they can. The other reason same sex "marriages" won't pass is because it is unconstitutional to them force/demand/make it a law for Pastors to have to perform ceremonies for gay partners. Imagen THOSE up and coming lawsuits.
    When it comes to gays in the military, serving openly, as long as everything is kosher, I don't really see too big of a problem. On the other hand, having them receive the benefits of a married couple, THAT I can see problems. Why? What is the percentage of people who are against gay marriage in the United States? I am gonna guess that it's pretty damn high. All of those people will then figure out that some of their tax dollars are going to fund some fags living quarters (off base housing, lets say). That should be an interesting debate! Just like abortion funding was for National Health Care! And also, what about roommates during A school and such. Two gay, single people in close quarters? THATS gonna be weird for their suit-mates!

    • I think my biggest qualm about this is that I've met female marines who are -not- gay who said that they hope this goes through because they've got another female friend who is going to be "gay" with them so that they can get out of the barracks! If situations like that arise too, it could be a nightmare!

    • EndTaxCuts4Thetop5% says:

      So, whats the weather like up there your holiness? And which of the over 4,000 gods that man has created are you refering too. This level of ignorance could only come from one, and don't bother answering because the question's were retorical. I know that its partly cloudy with a chance of rain, and your a christian.

      The state cannot be involved with "god" because our founding father's realized that they could not create a secular state if they did not separate the state with the people's mysticism.

      Thank you for educating people (If they didn't already know) about civil unions vice marriage. You do a great job selling people off marriage acually. As how you describe it in it's entirety, to be prideful and ignorant. Please tell me that you are not going door to door with this stuff, and assisting in