2012 Military Pay Raise Hits a Snag – Updated

December 12, 2011 | Terry Howell

Update: It was announced today that the House and Senate had agreed to exempt U.S. citizens from the detainee provision, making it much less likely to be vetoed by the President. As a result the 2012 Military Pay Raise should be safe.

Read the full article.

If you Google the term “National Defense Authorization Act of 2012” you will likely see several headlines stating that the defense act is unconstitutional, over-stepping, and illegal. You may ask yourself, how is the annual authorization for funding for the military “unconstitutional?”

No, the issue is not military end strength or the 2012 proposed military pay raise, nor is it about the cost of military housing or extending the current special pay levels. The provision that was inserted into the over 680 page bill by the Senate – Senators McCain and Levin to be precise – is about giving the government the ability to hold those suspected of terrorism in custody without charges or due process. Many claim that this applies to U.S. citizens – even those living in the Unitied States. However, the currently posted version of the NDAA on the Library of Congress site appears to state that U.S. Citizens are exempt from the provision.

According to reports, if the bill is passed by Congress, administration officials say the President will likely veto the bill as currently written. Either way the NDAA is likely to be tied up in politics for the foreseeable future.

So, why am I writing about this in a blog dedicated to military and veteran benefits? Because this last minute insertion into the National Defense Act will likely delay the passage of the act and with it funding for military operations, procurement, personnel and military family programs, and the proposed 1.6 percent across-the-board military pay raise slated for 2012.

The good news is that other than the possible breach of  the Constitution, the NDAA 2012 doesn’t have many big surprises like the proposed drastic changes to TRICARE or the current military retirement program. We can expect those budget balancing cuts to come later in 2012.

As always, stay tuned for further details as they happen…

Let your elected officials know how you feel about this issue.

About Terry Howell

Before becoming the Managing Editor for Military.com, Terry served 20 years in the U.S. Coast Guard as an Aviation Electrician’s Mate and aircrewman. In his final role in the Coast Guard, Terry served as a Career Development Advisor, where he provided career, finance, education, and benefits counseling to servicemembers and their families. Since retiring from the Coast Guard, Terry has authored the book, The Military Advantage, managed the content for TurboTap, the DoD's online transition program and VAforVets, the VA's transition assistance website. Terry earned both his Bachelor's and MBA at Corban University using Military Tuition Assistance and his GI Bill benefits to help cover the cost.

Comments

  1. CharlesBryant says:

    I read

    Subtitle D—Detainee Matters

    Section 1031 and 1032 don't see what they are calling unconstitutional.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867pcs/pd

    Starting on Page 359

    • I agree – It appears that the portion most complained about – the treatment of US Citizens is not in the currently posted version. It reads:
      UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

    • Your reading the wrong paper. Read the Constitution.
      If this becomes law, the President should place the whole Congress under arrest because everything they do creates true terror in the hearts of ALL TRUE AMERICANS.

    • Read section 1023.

  2. Sec. 1031 reaffirms the authority of the President to detain or kill ANY PERSON (not restricted to USC) in the war on terror. Sec. 1032 requires that persons detained pursuant to Sec. 1031 be held in military custody, unless they are USC. All that means is that if you are a USC detained pursuant to Sec. 1031, you are not required to be held by the military, but may be held by the military or any other authority.

    Summary: Sec 1031 applies to Americans, but is not required to.

    • Thanks Tyler for the information

    • Part of this act basically declares United States Soil part of a war zone "the war On Terror" so the military can do what they want with terror suspects, including U.S. Citizens. (USC)
      .

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Tyler,

      "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

      (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

      (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

      • The REQUIREMENT does not extend. That is not the same as "United States citizens may not be detained pursuant to this section." 1031 and 1032 have to be read together.

        If I say "you must paint all triangles red, but you don't have to paint all squares red" then you can still paint all squares red if you chose.

  3. What is the name of the Politician that put this into the law. Every Law has a name. i.e McCain/Fiengold. Just let the people know what politician thinks this is a good idea and we will deal with him/her at the next election. I am fed up with these politicians trying to destroy the Bill of Rights and the Constitution under the guise of terrorism. Every time you turn around these jack@$$ are stirring up a new crisis to exploit. They run around like chicken little crying that the sky is falling in, the media cringes and the next thing you know we the people have to sacrifice more freedom for the sake of freedom. In the meantime Wall Street is raping the Country and stealing our treasury blind while everyone is worried about what some crackpot might do. Enough! Give me the name of the Politician that put this in the Bill!!!

    • They are listed in the article Senators Jhon Mcain @ lEVIN Progressives with an agenda, they are whittling away at our constitution every day chipping away at freedom , and don believe its just these two Idiots .
      Why would they insert this garbage last minute into a bill that controlls military spending for our troops?
      why do they even need this passed, do you honestly think the United states government doesnt already have the power and laws in place to take care of Terror suspects?
      I hope all of my fellow vets are keeping informed and current military , We are fighting for life liberty and pursuit of happiness right here in America again ! all the info is out there Most conspiracy theorys seem to be coming true! Educate your selves prepare for the worst hope for the best!

      • CharlesBryant says:

        Henry,

        "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

        (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

        (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

        (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

    • Democrat Senator Carl Levin sponsored this bill and 97% of the American people surveyed are against this un Constitutional bill. This is just another step toward totalitarianism. They attach the pay raise to it so as to blame the other side when they block it. Politics as usual. This administration and the Socialist Progressive agenda must be stopped.

      • Senator Carl Levin may have sponsored the bill, but that doesn't mean he inserted this last minute provision, does it? Who is the Congressman who inserted the provision in question?

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Douglas,

      This already pass in the Senate on 12/01/11 with a vote of Yeas 93 and Nays 7?

    • One name is John McCain.

  4. U.S. Navy Retired says:

    But why should all of this legal mumbo jumbo affect the military pay raise. First of all, its an insult that they would only give Active Duty members a 1.6 (or whatever) pay raise for all of the sacrifices they and their family members have made. Such BS going on in the Capitol!!! But I guarantee you they will all vote on their pay raises when the time comes. Why does the hard fighting, sacrificing Soldier, Sailor, and Marine have to suffer when Politicians get mad at each other.

    • Flowergirl66 says:

      You are so right- 1.6% is nothing compared to what these men and women who have served during these long wars deserve. They will quietly vote on their own raises and we will not hear athing about it! Very Sad.

    • Larry Hearold says:

      Congress does not have to vote to raise their pay. Back in the early 90s they passed a law that gives it to them automatically unless they vote to stop it. Bunch of criminals!!!

    • Gilbert Harris says:

      FYI; They don't have to vote on their raise, it's automatic. They only vote if they want to change it (Usually to get more). In many years they've attached a small raise to other popular bils to give themselves extra raises
      while those of in the military were receiving the meger leftovers.

      • They should do the same with military raises. "Military pay will increase by an amount equal to the annual ECI unless a different pay raise is passed by Congress and signed into law by the President prior to the effective date of the 1 Jan pay raise." Then the politics could go on forever without effecting basic pay…

        • Actually, they do that now. By law, the proposed payraise for the military is ECI-0.5%. That's what the President is required to submit. Congress has, for the last umpteen years bumped it to either ECI+0.5% or ECI.

    • You have just hit in my major concern with out current legislative system

      ANY Congress Critter can add ANY thing htey want to ANY bill they see, regardless fo whether it makes any sense or not. This is a case in point

      I would love to see the use of Amendments/.Insertions severely limited or perhaps abolished. if you as a Congress Critter wnat to get something passed, write your own bill, or co-sponsor one.

      Seems like we did the same dance with the Defense Authorization Act last year, didn’t we.? And to finally get it passed, the ammendments were withdrawn?

    • Jim Vaughan says:

      Simple! Our Constitution has the answers to these questions and this one is answered in the Preamble: "We the People…" Not the bogus political group that takes the name, but rather those of us who know better than to put up with the shenanigans that goes on (legislative favoritism, bribes and lobbyists illegal activities) without voting the bums out of office AND voting any clown who supports a party position when they KNOW it is sheer idiocy to do so, but they get bullied into it by threats of withdrawal of funding and support for their reelection campaigns. So, to answer your well stated question, the reason for all this nonsense is because we continuously reelect these jerks without holding them accountable to the needs of the country and allow them to pander to the needs of those who fund their campaigns. Until we change both our voting and the laws governing campaigns and campaign financing, we will have progressively worse governments than we had before as they continue on the path to destroying the very fabric of our nation with their greed and power lust. Forgive me if I make too little of the problem.

  5. Richard Dalton says:

    I would forgo the raise if they will not set such a dangersous precedent as establishing the abolishment of rights to a speedy trial, et al and being held without bail indefinately under suspicion. It is ludicrous and establishes the foundation for a "Police State." Who are the politicians who think they can circumvent the Constitution? Even though the insertion of the clause is simply to get people like myself to say no to a payraise which is the motive in the first place. Insidious at best.

    • Let Democrat Sen. Carl Levin know how you feel. They need to hear it from the mouths of We The People.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Richard,

      "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

      (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

      (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

  6. rebuildingfreedom.com Here is a good site for info there are many out there .

  7. Its to bad, that now that the WAR is slowing down,, our soliders are going to see just how much we were and are loved and needed,,. this is just the tip of what has happened over the years. Look back at our lives.. Health gets cut backs for , those of us that were hurt. or retired.. . Harder to get help. more red tape.. Thye increase our tax deductions of our ret. checks but havnt had a increase in years, Once we arent needed to do the dirty jobs. be away from our familys, well things change,, I love my country and wouldnt change a thing I did for all those years, and O love the ARMY, this is just a old ret. confused..

  8. Question #1: The article states that "both sides of the aisle" were concerned about the provision in question. If both the Repubs & Dems are concerned, can they not go in to conference to iron this out?

    Question #2: There used to be a provision for a line item veto. What happened to that? If there still is, the President should be able to veto the provision in question.

  9. The political nit-wits voted & gave themselves their pay raises & pension plans without the peoples permission. We the people never had a chance to vote,agree or disagree on such a benefit package .ITS time the people demand that these benefits be recinded, retroactive 30 years,so we can stop the hemorrhageing of the tax payers blood,sweat, & tears, paying through the nose by the leaches.AMERICA WAKE UP !! !Vote them all out !!! AMEN!&AMEN

  10. The politicians have come to believe that they are our masters rather than our servants.
    They are out of control.
    It's time to vote ALL of them out of office.
    We need to have a 'REMOVE INCUMBENT' option on the ballot.

  11. Ted thompson says:

    So if this passes I hope these bleep's hold gangs in the same light as terrorist.

    • wandamurline says:

      I was upset also, so I got onto the page and READ the bill….it specifically exampts any United States citizen from being detained indefinitely. I don't know where this is coming from….sounds like they are just trying to stop the pay raise which should be about 10% and a reduction in government workers and congressmen by 25% to pay for it.

      • CharlesBryant says:

        wandamurline,

        You're correct, old people seem to believe anything negative sent them, seen on the internet or heard in the media. I wish people would just learn to look this stuff up and stop believing what everyone is telling them.

  12. Politics, politics, what else???

  13. This is rediculous..Our men and women fight for this country to protect this country and this is what you people do to them. So you mean to tell me that all the lives that have been lost and all the troops that are still over there are doing this pretty much for nothing. Instead of taking away from them and thier families like you all have been for the past few years , why can't you just take care of whatever it is that you all need to do and give back to these men and women and thier loved ones. Its sad because I have lived the military life for the longest and yes there were snags here and there but wow not this bad. No recognition to soldiers who bust thier butts on the front line , but credit goes to NCO's that dont do NOTHING buyt sit in thier office and do NOTHING. It disguses me to know that you people in the big office dont have nothing to lose, you dont know how it feels to lose benifits, pay, a house, a loved one overseas. So until you do you all dont know NOTHING!! POLITICS thats all it is and pretty much thats all it will ever be.

  14. Wolf-Talker says:

    Why Not Just Scrap the whole thing and start over say maybe in 20 yrs or so?

    • You want to go without pay for 20 years?

      If the NDAA 2012 doesn’t pass in some form, there is no money for the DOD to pay service members

  15. Confounded says:

    It's time to throw all the bums out. They have no respect for the military, either active duty or retired. They care about themselves and the thirst for more power. They work for us yet give themselves raises while dishing out a meager 1.6% to those willing to die for this country.
    No one has been able to explain to me why young men and women serve in the U.S. Military for 20 years, risking their lives protecting freedom, and only get 50% of their pay.
    While Politicians hold their political positions in the safe confines of the capital, protected by these same men and women, and receive full pay retirement after serving one term. It just does not make any sense.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Confounded,

      1. Congress hasn't recieved a pay raise since 2009.

      2. The soldier that serve and retired after 20 years do it because it is a damn good deal.

      3. Congressmen do not recieve any form of retirement after only 1 term. That is a lie that has been sent around the internet for years.

  16. Screw the military first. It figures. And to think I voted for McCain in 2008. Seems the Senator has a short memory about being in the military.

  17. Lowell Green says:

    I know this is how you asshole politicians get all your pork barrel projects passed by inserting them in bills that have no connection whatsoever. Get the pay raise (if you can call it that) issue out of this bill and pass it on its' own merit.

  18. The bigger concern that is being missed is that a President who already side-steps Congress at will, can now order his "private Army" to detain anyone he wants……as long as he wants. This flyes in the face of the oath I took to protect this Country against all enemies, foreign or domestic. We need to build a wall around the beltway and let Texas deal with the rest.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Bill,

      The President doesn't have a "private Army", and under the Rules of War, prisoners have always been held until the War is over.

  19. It's all been said. Congress does think of themselves as our masters and do not listen to us. The pork hung all over this bill hs nothing to do with military families making ends meet. When you see or hear a Congress person extolling the virtues of our military try to contain your laughter. They are frauds. I hope someone is reading this for Klobuchar and Franken.

  20. Atsugi 675 says:

    I think we should cut our Congressmans pay in half and see how they like with no pay raises or little pay rasies.

  21. whodathumkit says:

    Politics as usual!! The military always gets it in the end; nothing changes from administration to administration. It’s a career choice we make, and our families suffer, we suffer and unlike our federal government civil servants who have union representation to say enough is enough…we do not. Simply sad!! Enlisted in 1974, commissioned in 1997, and still serving active duty and I am amazed at the positive changes that have been made in my 30+ years of service; but politics is still politics and we continue to be the sacrificial lamb.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      whodathumkit,

      I first joined in 1969, retired in 1995 and I don't us as being the sacrificial lamb.

  22. There is absolutely no reason for the military to hold US citizens. Add on top of that no charges and indefinitely locking citizens up and you wonder what country this is. This is not needed. What is the real reason behind this. Sadly this is is not the same country I chose to serve.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Brian,

      "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

      (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

      (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

      This bill pasted on 1 Dec. 2011

  23. TED LAWSON GMC RET. says:

    ONCE AGAIN MCCAIN AND LEVIN HOLD THE SERVICEMAN HOSTAGES. MCCAIN IS A DISCRACE. I AM ASHAMED TO CALL HIM A FELLOW RETIRED NAVY MAN. HIS GRANDPA AND DAD MUST BE ROLLING IN THEIR GRAVES.

  24. CWO3 USN Retired.
    How can you right wing nuts blame the President.He did't write this bill, and I believe this will prove to be unconstitutional anyway.

    • whodathumkit says:

      Agreed!!

    • Non Right winger says:

      Let's see…More Czars to get around the constitution. Executive orders to go around the Constitution, even though executive orders can't trump laws. Obamacare passage now at the SCOTUS.

      How about Pelosi…"We'll see what the law says once it is passed!"

    • Gus: You are correct the Pres. didn't write this bill. It was Senator's Carl Levin and John McCain. However the Pres. and Janet have moved TSA onto the highways to inspect "search" vehicles. Military police have been present at some of these Inspection/Search sites. Homeland Sec. wants 12 more teams to compliment the 25 exhisting teams. (See TSA Blog). Couple this with using the military to arrest and intern American Citizens. It will pit the public against our wonderful military personnel. Just look at what is already going on with protest across our nation. This law would be used by all future presidents. To close to German policy of the 30's and 40's for me. Guess I'm just a right wing nut!!!

  25. If it happens on U.S. soil prosecute with the laws currently in place. You don't need these extra powers.

    • We used to hang traitors. Seems especially fitting now days. The creep that shot all the folks at Fort Hood, should have been History by now, but Lawyers need to cash in so it will be years, before this creep even comes to trial. Gotta love the US brand of justice eh?

  26. Someone mentioned the military Active and retirees have been used as the sacrificiqal lamb. There is too much hate amongst our senate and congress people that this nation will eventally crash. We are not one people any more.

  27. Most of the comments made show the understanding of this , that some words inserted into a routine bil for appropriations can shred the Constitution. The Constitution of the United States of America is what many of mine and your fellow servicemen/ women have given their lives for, have been wounded and/or maimed. So you have to wonder…what where they thinking when this was written (slipped) into this bill, much lie earmarks are put routinely into other bills. This should and must be removed without much ado..let's see how the sponsors of the bill handle this. It will tell you how much there concern for you there actually is. God save the Republic.

  28. 1.6% isn't even worth arguing over – so while they banter back and forth hoping we hold our collective breaths, if and when it passes we're supposed to be "grateful" like they did us a favor.
    Poor.

  29. IF a us citizen is detained for suspicion of terrorism without proof, due process of the law should be imposed. The soldiers who protect our nation and sacrafice their life are allways short changed. Remove the clause from military pay and insert it in congress pay raise. The policitian always try to get a hard task passed by including it with military pay. Congress men & women have the best of everything, when will they stop taking from the military?

    • CharlesBryant says:

      The Bakers,

      "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

      (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

      (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

      Paseds in the Senate 12/01/11 with a vote of Yeas 93 and Nays 7?

  30. Norm USAF Ret. says:

    To be denied due process after an arrest is protected by the constatustion that we awore to protect. Now tieing it to the military pay is a ploy my both houses of congress to stall defense spending. Maybe it's time for the people of the country to call for a vote of no conifdense is the current goverment and replace everyone.

    • CharlesBryant says:

      Norm USAF Ret.,

      "SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

      (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

      (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

      Passed in the Senate 12/01/11 with a vote of Yeas 93 and Nays 7.

  31. So the bleeding heart liberals tack this onto a bill for a military pay raise.
    Typical of todays politicians. This should have it's own priorities and its own seperate bill and a lot more deliberation concerning this subject of treason.

  32. widow of Ret E-9 says:

    A lot of the senators and congressmen started out as lawyers. So they will find any loop hole to keep the military from getting the pay they deserve. I still say let's come together and get passed that all senators and congressmean start out on the base pay of the lowest enlisted person. And as they go up they get payed more. And also they have to deal with military government health insurance and housing allowance. Let's see if they get there eyes opened. And also since they are serving out contry let them do combat duty for a month of theyear and ithere will be no perferintial treatment.

  33. Keep It Simple Stupid….This doesnt belong in the millitary bills! Troops and Vets take it in the A** again! GREED,GREED,GREED!

  34. John Dudley says:

    So why can't our usless president just do a line item veto and pass the rest of the bill?

    • Don't blame the President, or call him names because some right winger decides its O.K. to violate the constitution you are an ass

      • Democrat Senator Carl Levin is NOT a right winger. And while we are at it, why don't you full fledged, card carring communists quit posting to htis sight. It is for MILITARY AND RETIRED ONLY!!! The fact that the name of the writer is NOT in the article means it is aq demoncrat. The leftist reporters ALWAYS leave out the name when it is a piece of cr_p. But that aside, there has only been once in the last 50 years when the president ordered the death of an American citizen directly. GUESS WHO…Hint In 2011 and his initials are BHO – barryboy

    • CharlesBryant says:

      John,

      Court Strikes Down Line-Item Veto back in 1998.
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/lon

    • With Obama's incompetence in practical economics and lack of experience in having run ANYTHING, he probably doesn't know what a line item veto is, much less understand how or why to use one.

      • Perhaps with your obvious wealth of political expertise, you could point out to him (and the rest of us) how he could use a line item veto when Congress and the US Supreme Court have repeatedly barred US Presidents from having line-item veto authority.

      • Maybe because there is no line item veto. Did you ever think of that. You right wingers are stupid

    • Watersisland says:

      There IS no "line item veto" option. Attempts have been made at such a procedure….but to date have never completely succeeded. BTW…there is no such word as "usless" either. Get an education!

  35. Salary of retired US Presidents ………….$180,000 FOR LIFE
    Salary of House/Senate …………………..$174,000 FOR LIFE
    Salary of Speaker of the House ………….$223,500 FOR LIFE
    Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders ……. $193,400 FOR LIFE
    Average Salary of a teacher ……………. $40,065
    Average Salary of Soldier DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN.. $38,000

    I think we know where cuts should be made…

    • Non left winger says:

      Let's see…More Czars to get around the constitution. Executive orders to go around the Constitution, even though executive orders can't trump laws. Obamacare passage now at the SCOTUS.

    • Please go to the Senate website and read up on it. NONE of the above is accurate regarding the President, House/Senate, or others. They do NOT have their salary for life.

      Posting this just shows your ignorance and inability to think for yourself.

    • But the majority of military are from mid-to-low income familiies and therefore, expendable (why else would they be enlisting instead of going onto non-affordable college)?

      Our elected officials should not get retirement and/or life-long benefits unless they serve THEIR twenty or thirty years! And, constituants should establish annural goals for those elected officials to meet. If they fail to meet them, the shortfalls should be publicized and their salaries, for that year, should be adjusted accordingly (we shouldn't have to wait for elections to penalize and/or toss out an elected official).

  36. 1.6 is a disgrace!! What are we supposed to do with that?? Buy 1 gallon of gas??? Not even enough to get to work!!! I believe that we need to get the laws changed to limit how long they serve in Congress!! We need to stand up for our military. Maybe all those protestors should be protesting this.

  37. John Browning says:

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. LET US KNOW THE RESPONISBILE
    POLITICANS NAME.

  38. PutEmInPrison says:

    For every bill and every budget fight to the end, for every supposed banking crisis, labor crisis (GM will fail without taxpayer funding) has everyone noticed how our own political leaders, the Fed, and the Treasury strike terror in their own citizens to get their way? Does this not make them terrorists subject to a room at Gitmo?

  39. You can thank Sen. Levin and Sen. McCain for this provision. Every Vet and Active Duty Member needs to write or call these two Anti American Senators and let them know how we feel.

  40. Watersisland says:

    I am thoroughly embarrased and ashamed at all the uninformed, illiterate, and uneducated comments I read here. Please folks, try READING a newspaper (several!) and listening to INFORMED individuals rather than just picking up your "news" from "rumors and propaganda"…or even worse FAUX news propagandists. Many of you get yourselves worked up into a dither over things that just aren't true at all—making you look like the uneducated idiots that you are.

    • KMA

    • Watersisland: Have you read the bill? We are in serous trouble if this bill were to pass as written. You need to consider this bill with the current operation being conducted by TSA (Transportation Security Admin.) The have moved onto the highways to "inspect" vehicles and are backed up by military police. Got questions? Go to TSA Blog. They have 25 inspection teams and are ask for 12 more. Big SIS of Homeland can have you declaired if you look at a Gov bldg security system to long. It's a fact.

  41. If waters is so sure of his/her superior intellect then why do we have this.. https://bay155.mail.live.com/default.aspx?id=6485

  42. Having served for ~28 years, and now retired…it really does look like the country and it's lawmakers are not completing all of the proper processes as they should. How does the act of holding terrorists even relate funding of Defense issues? Is the plan to rob Peter to pay Paul?? This is wrong. By the same manner, it would also be wrong to replace the entire congress. We need to leave someone there to keep the country flowing.Someone mentioned congressional retirements above…did you knnow they get that retirement after one term in office…why isn't their retirement the same as ours, after all we do get the opportunty to recite the same oath of office as they do.

  43. Its Harry Ried's fault. Vote Herman Cain in and pass the pizza around. Congress works better on a full belly.

  44. eugene g wierzbicki says:

    "We will always gripe about something," ("FREEDOM OF SPEECH")" we need to know the facts about what you comment on be for your mouth overloads your a$$hole"! and that's a memo !

  45. IT SEEMS THAT SENATOR MCCAIN HAS JUMPED SIDES AND INSTEAD OF BEING FOR THE VETERANS, NOW IT SEEMS THAT HE WANTS TO STAB US IN THE BACK…
    EVERY ONE NEEDS TO BE IMPEACHED.. ANYONE OFF THE STREET CAN LEAD OUR COUNTRY BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE…

    • I agree. I begged those I knew in AZ NOT to vote for McCain, again. He has totally lost it. Those months in Hanoi took it's toll on his brain and he was elected based on his military expeience, alone and it wasn't a good call.

    • Artimus Martin says:

      You hit the nail on the head

    • Can you say McCain and RINO in the same breath?

    • HM3 Pritch says:

      Jumped sides? He's never been about anything other than asking everything from the citizen and giving nothing back other than "protection". That's what Plutocrats do. They think that all their petty larcenies don't add up, and that because of their exalted labels, such as liberal or conservative, and obfuscations prevent the people who they allegedly answer to from noticing the fine print, whether it's the subject of national defense or the domestic ecnonomy? Put it to you this way: How many of you realized that Afghanistan had already been thouroughly surveyed geologically by the mid-nineties at the latest, that there was a website posted by a geological survey group well before 9/11 with its known reserves of industrial ores that described that country as the greatest source of untapped industrial ores in the world today that doesn't already belong to Russia (and is easily accessible by rail)? If you had known this, you might have been amused by our legislature and State Dept.'s "astonishment" at such good luck, you might have laughed especially hard knowing that our allies in the U.K. had let this infobit slip by announcing it in their major news outlets (B.B.C, the Economist, etc.) two years before our govn't made it's farcical public statement, that all we thought we'd found there was some surface lithium. Any body want to guess which industrial giant we've handed many mining operations to for pennies on the dollar? Answer hint: None of our own, but UnoCal, the company that co-hosted Taliban members in Houston care of Sec.State James Baker (in his River Oaks Mansion, or was it Bush's?) back in the 90's, got handed mineral rights, the specifics of which I can't remeber, there's so much to be outraged about. Don't want to believe that? Look it up, It's supposed to be free info… The moral of the story is that few nations have been as thouroughly sold out by their leaders as ours have. It's a big drop when we have so much to lose… Grats to the writer of this article for keeping us up to date.

    • You took the words right out of my month brother!!! Mc Cain is a Bendick Arnold ! He rather to switch than to fight!

  46. Artimus Martin says:

    Why don't they delay their own pay , before the people who make it possible for them to serve in their positions !

  47. Master Chief Joe says:

    What I am reading here is exactly what I perceive as our nonfunctional congresses major inability to play nice with each other in the sand box … Euphemistically speaking, what I hear from the boyz and gurlz in congress is: The left sux and can't do diddly right; and, the right sux and can't do diddly right. And in my learned opinion, with those attitude they can't get anything right. Super committee, need I say more???

    • We have that in congress and it cripples us. We also have a white house that has played fast and loose with every campaign promise. These things serve to erode our democracy and its obvious that the erosion is severe and ongoing. What do we do Chief?

    • Master Chief Joe this is CMSgt Al, you got it right, If the Supreme Court and/or the Congress had done their jobs we wouldn't be talking about all of this crap. Obama is illegal to be President, even he was born in Hawaii, south Chicago or Timbucktoo..

  48. Last month McCain was in the hot seat for backstabbing vets on benefits. Now he's playing games with this bill. These jerks in the Senate know damned well that when they insert a politically hot issue into a bill that the bill will be held up. That's what they want. Lots of headlines about the crap they tried to insert. Now they've gone and inserted a provision to restart an oil pipeline that's been mired in polics and put on hold. They know this has nothing to do with defense. They know it will hold up the bill and with it the pay raise. They don't care. In spite of running his mouth about how much he cares for vets and military, McCain is only another headline grabbing political hack. With friends like him its no wonder we get nowhere.

  49. Vietvet1968 says:

    John McCain used to be one of us. Now he is part of the Congressional problem that is making it harder on Military families and the military in general to function. It is time to get rid of ALL the present sitting Congress people and install veterans in both houses of Congress!

  50. Viet nam Vet says:

    How is it that to get a pay hike that is long overdue to Veterans is so difficult, but congress & senate to get pay raise is so easy & don't have to be approved by nobody but themeselves without a vote by people who voted them in. It is time for american people to have a say in our government which was voted by the people, for the people. Our country is being run into the ground by politicians that think no one can do anything about it, it is time to take back our country that we as Veterans fought so hard. They should not get their next paycheck until they do something to EARN IT

    • I agree 100%,I am also a Viet Nam Vet( the forgotten) Norris from N.C.

      • it always seems that at the last moment that someone always has to put something in a bill to delay everything that the bill was written to do in the first place.Stop being like little kids and do what is best for our country man instead of looking what is best for you and acting like its us against them.I believe that the people should have the write to vote for what politicians make and instead of them voting for their pay raise and anything they think they deserve for the job they are doing is it for the people or is it just for me??? lets vote them out of office and stop voting people in until we have the say that we are suppose to have.

    • Ronnie McMasters says:

      I agree with you. Cut the senators and the Congressman's Pay and make them ( Squeek a little bit ) and you would find them a little more considerate to the Veterans who gave their all for there freedom.
      Every time we turn around they are all to eager to cut the military and the Veterans pay and benefits.

    • You realize they have denied themselves a pay raise since 2009?

  51. Ms. Post Falls says:

    I am sorry, but I don't get how this: "The issue is that many fear the questionable provision would allow the government arrest U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism without charges or due process, and hold them indefinitely."
    Has anything to do with pay raises? The bill should be about pay raises ONLY! No more pork!!!

  52. Drafted(1965)Vet says:

    My apology to all. I’m human, I’m old, and sometimes have a ‘disconnect’ between my eyes, brain and fingers when I type. The NCDD I referred to in my Post of 12/14/2011 at 6:42pm should have been the NDA (National Defense Act of 2012). The Bill that included funding for the D. O. D. (Department of Defense) and our military. Sorry for the ‘disconnect’, then confusion, on my part. I’ll try to do better in the future.

  53. To CMSgtAl (and other Veteran bloggers):
    Why do you say “Obama is illegal to be President?”. Last I knew he was voted into office by the largest majority of voters, of any US President in recent years. And, in case you use the old ‘Birth Certificate’ arguement-issue, read about the required process and qualifications an applicant for President of the U. S. A. must go through and furnish to the U. S. Government and Congress, in order to run for the office of President. Part of that process is furnishing the Attorney General of the U. S. A. (Head of the Department of Justice-amongst others) with ALL necessary and ‘qualifying documents’ for President, including a VALID BIRTH CERTIFICATED. And the last time I knew, the Attorney General of the U. S. A., at that time, was Alberto Gonzales (2001-2007), a Bush appointee, and a Republican. So, the Office of the Attorney General of the U. S. A., qualified Obama as a Presidential Candidate, could they have been ‘dooped’ ??? I don’t think so. This whole ‘issue’ of the ‘forged Birth Certificate’, was born at Fox News (and probably through the Republican Party-But I don’t know that for sure, because that would be their ‘secret’). And it was pasted from mouth-to-ear, to mouth-to-ear, and so on. And most people DIDN’T check it out, because, how could Fox News be wrong, and not check something like this out-I wonder????? Check it out for yourself–all of you.

    I certainly haven’t agreed with everything Obama has done, but he’s still the President and Commander In Chief of The United States Armed Forces, and he will make mistakes in someones eyes, EVERY President has. It’s sad, to me, that this blog has became a ‘sound board’ for individual and group ‘political agendas’. It seems many pass on untrue and/or inaccurate information to ‘stir the pot’ for these ‘other political agendas’ (And here it comes), just like Fox News, from most all of their reporters, from Beck, Hannity and O’Rielly, to their ‘group discussion reporters’ (I don’t know all their names anymore). I don’t listen or watch them anymore, or take their ‘slant’ on news, since they change there ‘position’ on ‘news items’ to fit their agenda. And it seems their current agenda is to tell anyone who will listen to them, that Obama is the worst President ever, and EVERYTHING he does or says is wrong, and they’ll give all of their (Agenda) reasons for this. Obama may not be the best President ever, but he certainly is not the ‘worst’. Fox News ‘flip-flops’ on issue-after-issue, time-after-time, to fit ‘their agenda’, especially with regards to this President and Congress. I will agree this Congress is the WORST EVER, and remember, the House is now controlled by the Republicans and the Senate is controlled by the Democrats. Remember, the voters of this country changed the ‘political make up’ of the Congress in 2007, primarily to bring our troops home from an ‘illegal and immoral war’ and to deal with the declining economy. They failed miserably!! Then the voters, once again, in particular districts, in an off-year election in 2010, changed the ‘political make up’ of the House because we wanted more done, to change, and turn this horrible economy around. And, as I see it, that just made ‘Law Making’ worse. The Congress now is just like a bunch of children fighting over toys and turf!!!!!! We need to change a lot of this ‘political process, because IT IS NOT WORKING for the People of the United States!! Many people seem to forget, that Obama took over a mess of a government, and an economical situation that hasn’t occurred in decades, after 8 YEARS of the ‘Lame Duck’ President George Bush AND a Republican controlled Congress (House and Senate) . Oh look, I’ve made this a ‘political statement/comment’ on a ‘political statement/comment’. Shame on me.

    This whole ‘hubub’ is centered around the NCDD Budget Bill. There IS something going on with it!! I’m just not sure exactly what. Go to McCain’s and Levin’s websites and read their explanation of the inserted amendment to the bill. I think the key item, is the statement regarding “citizens that PICK UP AND BARE ARMS against the U.S.A.”. None the less, this amendment SHOULD NOT have been attached to the NCDD Bill. The benefits for our Armed Forces AND their families should be put through the Congress and sent to the President to be signed(!!!), WITHOUT ANY ATTACHMENTS OR AMENDMENTS IMMEDIATELY !!!!!!! I think we all know that won’t happen unless we call and/or write our Representatives, and tell them, “come next election they won’t have a Congressional job unless you act NOW !!!!!!!” Present a Budget Bill (like the NCDD Bill), a new Bill, or whatever it takes. Put through the D. O. D. budget, put raises of at least $100.00 per month, plus, an increase in the allotment for those in a combat zone. (Don’t use %’s because the dollar per month amount for a soldier making $4000.00 a month and one making $8000.00 plus, is significant, spread over the entire Armed Forces. The Armed Forces is a Team effort, no soldier is ‘more important’ than ‘another. The difference in Pay Grades reflects different responsibilities, rank and time in service. Why should one soldier get more money (with a %) than another in giving out what ‘looks like’ a COLA.), and increased benefits, for ALL of our Armed Forces, especially in VA benefits-no reductions OR takeaways!!!

    I know you all probably won’t agree with some of what I have said, but that’s my opinion, and the exercising of my ‘freedom of speech’, and that’s what makes this such a great Country, regardless of our other problems.

    Oh, and everyone who ‘Posts a Comment’ should read what they wrote before they ‘Post a Comment’ and correct misspelled words and write a sentence that some other person can read and understand.

    • This bill was edited for USC and resident aliens in the last few days. There were only 7 senators who voted against it in the previous version. Watch the C-Span video of it. They didn’t want the “nays” to take more than a few minutes to argue against it.

    • A citizen is encouraged to bring arms to the very idiots which misinterpret the constitution to use as their personal power (All of the congress is guilty of this). ANY attack on the constitution is to be defended by the citizens and the perps who attacked it are to be tried for treason and tyranny. If all you progressives actually read the constitution and not the bullshit laws the courts have tried to change by their communist rulings. You would find the only people which have true power are the citizens and the states. The federal gov't has very very limited power and most of the BS going on today is against the constitution. And obama is not elgible to be president for many reasons and statues listed in the constitution itself. He needs to be charged with tyranny and high treason and tried by the military court. After all, he is the commander in thief and therefore falls in the jurisdiction of the UCMJ for his actions and lack of integrity.

      • retiree says:

        Care to cite how someone born in Hawaii (a US state) (thus meeting the "natural-born citizen clause), over age 35 (meeting that requirement), a legal resident of the US for over, who has resided in the US for over 14 years (again meeting that requirement) is NOT eligible? Those are the requirements from the Constitution (Article II "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.").

        And if you want to argue that his father was not American – neither was the father of Chester A. Arthur, 21st President of the USA.

        Oh, and the President can only be impeached by the House, Tried by the Senate.

        I realize you are having problems understanding the Constitution. Might I suggest you go to http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constit… where they nicely have the full text for your reading and comprehension.

  54. DevilBlueWolf says:

    Personally I think the government is trying to save there own tails. They have been running this country into the ground for a long time now. Patriots unite this country could very well be headed into a Revolution and may very well need it. However, its our oath to fight all enemies foreign and domestic. If our Government turns tyrant its our duty to fight it and bring it down and put a new Government in place and hand the power back over to the people. But with a bill like that good men and women patriots could be tagged as terrorists and just put aside and out of sight long forgotten.
    Be it a Revolution or a new Civil War, I think its coming if things don't change. Not soon, but it is out there on the horizon. Whatever side our Military takes wins more then likely. But our Military and Vets should stand as one always for the greater good.

  55. Retired SMSGT says:

    You say my comment was too long at 17 lines – "Draftee 1965" had 57 lines . Whatsa matter – can't stand omeone who tells the truth about your precious liberals and Zerobama lovers? And who is he to tell others how to write when his blog looks as if a 3rd grader wrote it…

  56. HM3 Pritch says:

    Heck, this was a reply, but I'm putting it up as it's own comment. I'm proud to say that we posters seem to be more lucid as time goes by. And BTW, the inserted provision for holding without due process was supposed to get the Prez to veto the thing. It's a lot like pro wrestling that way.

    Jumped sides? He's never been about anything other than asking everything from the citizen and giving nothing back other than "protection". That's what Plutocrats do. They think that all their petty larcenies don't add up, and that because of their exalted labels- such as liberal or conservative- and obfuscations prevent the people who they allegedly answer to from noticing the fine print, whether it's the subject of national defense or the domestic ecnonomy. Put it to you this way: How many of you realized that Afghanistan had already been thouroughly surveyed geologically by the mid-nineties at the latest. There was a website posted by a geological survey group well before 9/11 with its known reserves of industrial ores that described that country as the greatest source of untapped industrial ores in the world today that doesn't already belong to Russia (and is easily accessible by rail)? If you had known this, you might have been amused by our legislature and State Dept.'s "astonishment" at such good luck. You might have laughed especially hard knowing that our allies in the U.K. had let this infobit slip by announcing it in their major news outlets (B.B.C, the Economist, etc.) two years before our govn't made it's farcical public statement of surprise, that all we thought we'd found there was some surface lithium. Any body want to guess which industrial giant we've handed many mining operations to for pennies on the dollar? Answer hint: None of our own, but UnoCal, the company that co-hosted Taliban members in Houston care of Sec.State James Baker (in his River Oaks Mansion, or was it Bush's?) back in the 90's, got handed mineral rights, the specifics of which I can't remeber, there's so much to be outraged about. Don't want to believe that? Look it up, It's supposed to be free info… The moral of the story is that few nations have been as thouroughly sold out by their leaders as ours have. It's a big drop when we have so much to lose… Grats to the writer of this article for keeping us up to date.

  57. Note: emphasis added: "…the currently posted version of the NDAA on the Library of Congress site **appears** to state that U.S. Citizens are exempt from the provision."

    "other than the **possible** breach of the Constitution"

    So, how about coming flat out and actually saying "Yes, Amerikans CAN be detained without trial," or "No, Americans can NOT be held without trial." This is a VERY vital bit of legislation, which does NOT need to be ambiguous! That's as bad as having speeding cameras on HILLS, so that people who just cruise down the hills, just letting the momentum carry them, while covering their brake, can suddenly be nailed for "speeding…" and what happened to being able to face the accuser? But I digress…

    We need a definite answer. Governor Scott Walker is being recalled, so maybe it's time to start recalling our other "reps," especially when they all get +$100k/year, FOR LIFE!

  58. I will never understand how Americans vote on anything, I have seen so much stupidity when it comes to elections both national and Municipal
    that I shudder when I hear the returns. The people that are elected, the mud slinging, the chad issues just blow my mind. We are electing movie stars
    and other misfits on popularity votes and the country has run aground.
    Just my opinion.

    • Problem is everyone thinks their senator or congressman is doing a good job in their state and it's the rest of them that should go. That's why these idiots keep getting re-elected. It's time for voters to refuse to vote incumbent if anything is going to get changed!

  59. Richard Peck says:

    I think it is about time they passed a law to have only one subject to a bill and knock off the slipping other things in so it will or not be passed. Especially ear marks.

  60. It is sad to say that our Government is in need of an overhaul, but lets face it, they talk about being proud of our Military.How do they show it? Truely i fell that with the upcomeing Elections, we need to stop and take a look very closely at whom we are putting into office. I want a Government that i can be Proud of and Love. Right now i am not feeling that Love. Change does not have to be Bad. We need to reevaluate our present Government and make the changes needed for a more Improved and Workable Government. I urge all MY Military Brothers and Sisters Active,Reserve and Retired to Please stand up and make your Voice Heard. Lets get out and Vote. Lets put Government back in the hands Of The People- By The People and For The People. If it takes an Independent ,Like Ron Paul Lets DO It. Lets not Talk about it. Lets Walk about it.
    JLT Retired Navy

  61. Thomas Ritchie says:

    I have been retired from the USAF since 1972 and no one have never before taken money from my retiremene check until this year the Government took $48:00 from my measly check every month with no reason.What the hell will they take next? Retired Msgt.

  62. CharlesBryant says:

    bigron,

    NOT TRUE. Congress hasn't seen a pay raise since 2009.