Military Retirement Faces Overhaul

July 26, 2011 | Terry Howell

Some in the DoD are pushing to dump the current retirement system and replace it with a version of the “Thrift Savings Plan” similar to the one currently offered Federal Employees. This plan would allow DoD to save money by making contributions to a civilian style 401(k) retirement plan.

According to some reports, the DoD would also use the new retirement plan as leverage or incentive by offering increased contribution rates for those who opt for multiple deployments, hardship assignments, and high demand or unpopular military occupations. In addition, service branches could use it to entice servicemembers to retire early or stay in longer.

Unlike past changes to the military retirement plan, which shielded current servicemembers from the changes, the plan presented by the Defense Business Board would not grandfather current servicemembers. The plan would go into effect immediately and includes current and future servicemembers.

Under that plan, new recruits would start immediately earning TSP contributions, but, would have no incentive to stay in the military for 20 or more years since they would not get a fixed-benefit pension. Current servicemembers would begin receiving TSP contributions immediately and would earn a graduated percentage of their pay if they stay in the military for 20 years or more years. Their fixed pension rate would be based on their years of service when the new plan kicks in. For example a servicemember who has 15 years of service would get 37.5 percent of their base pay at 20 years in addition to the new TSP contributions.

Some see this as a way to make the system more flexible or fair to those who serve less than 20 years and a great way to reduce the overall cost of military retirement.

[BLOGGERS NOTE: A 2010 Defense Business Board slide show presentation states that “Paying the military and their families for 60 years to serve for only 20 years” is unsustainable. Many retirees may find the point of view that “only 20 years” of service shouldn’t earn benefits, troubling. The same slide presentation also refers to the military retirement system as a “sacred cow.” Seems to indicate the bias the board has toward military retirement.]

Whether you support the overhaul plan or not, you should contact your elected officials to let them know how you feel about this issue.

More details are avialable at the Military Times.

Comments

  1. Maybe the Military and Civil Service retirement and medical plans should mirror those for members of congress, White House staffers, and secretarial appointees! Tom

    • retired says:

      You are aware those groups (congress, white house, & pres appointees) is, in fact, the civil service FERS & FEHBP?

      • DShirley says:

        What can you say….some people just "go with the headline" without thinking!

      • Yes the are FERS & FEHBP however, they are not facing a possible overhaul to their retirement system midpoint, or further, into their career.

      • Unfortunate and really a bad concept and plan.
        1. TSP is essentially a 401k. 401ks were never intended to be retirement plans but supplements. How many people are working now because their 401ks were adversely affected by market downturns and they don’t have the retirement buffer they planned on?
        2. This plan will hurt both recruitment and retention. The second part is especially troublesome because most highly trained individuals will have little incentive to stay in past minimum commitment when they can make more elsewhere. We will no longer have the professional committed military that we have now.
        3. If this plan goes through there will be a mass exodous from the military ranks adding to problems that already exist in the civilian sector.
        4. The only winners in this proposal are the financial services sector who will be managing these contributions and getting paid regardless of how well the market happens to be doing.

    • Amen!

    • Well when our first or only term congressmen and women finsh there term or terms in office, they dont pay taxes on there benifits and wages and still recieve an estimated 125,00 to 250,000 dollars a year. Not to mention there spouses recieve tax free 150,000.00 tax free dollars a year after they pass away. It is completely rediculous. I wonder how much would be saved if they put the same plan in place for them.

      • txagcol1 says:

        That is a myth. The actual average congressional retirement is only 35000 a year. Congressmen only make an average of 120000, which is not much for what they do. Congressmen go by the same federal retirements as do civil servants. They don't immediately collect a pension. They get their pension when they are 50, if they have served 20 years. Otherwise, they have to serve 5 years and then wait till they are 62 before they collect their pension. Their pension is based on how much they placed into their retirement fund, similar to a 401k. Learn your facts before you spout off myths.

        • actually, according to a story in today's USA Today about Congressman Wu's retirement after accusations of sexual misconduct states: "Rank-and-file members such as Wu are paid $174,000 a year, while top leaders get more." http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitic

        • I like you numbers better but that doesn't make it better to ruin the SM's retirement plan, change it I don't care here's the deal let new entrants accept that, they HAVE to grandfather it to keep it fair.

        • 120,000 not much for what they do….then what is 2000 for an Enlisted soldier in the field, getting shot at and coming home without a limb…..or in a bag?

          • What happens to the medically retired? Does eveyone forget them! In our case we dont live on jack and we cant afford to go to physical therapy 3 times a week off post,our post just started to make anyone except active duty go off post and pay a co pay! I have lots of permanent nerve damage and need my therapy to cope with some of the pain I experience on a daily basis!

        • B.S

        • 120000.00 a year to take bribes, kick backs and to peddle influence?
          Please don’t defend the indefensible.

        • Yes indeed, these people are quick to cut the benefits of people risking their lives but just last year the liberal trash voted themselves a tax cut. Taxes went up in every bracket but where congressmen largley land. Very few make under $300,000 and oddly many…very many presidents and congressmen leave office with over $10,000,000 in assets. Kickbacks you think?

        • I should snuff you in the mouth for defending them and even putting them on our level. Im a marine infantry grunt. A sergeant who makes crap compared to them and I have done more than they could even think of and I’ve had to endure the sight of my marines families (wives, kids, moms, dads, ect) lay them in the ground all for a couple thousand a month some for even less. Don’t ever compare them to us.

        • Death benefits for soldier? 250,000. Two years as a CONgressman 340,000. Correct me if I'm wrong would you? 20 yrs 3,480,000 PLUS taxpayer SUBSIDIZED retirement. Most are Millionairs. Yes compared to what they do, that certainly isn't much huh?

      • This is completely untrue. Go google the retirement benefits of congressman. They are very close to government employees plan, and not one of them collects until age 62.

    • Great Idea Tom or theirs should mirror ours starting with do 20 or more to collect a retirement!!

    • jim the ex dude says:

      Amen Tom!

    • And just what ground combat have the memebrs of congress actually fought. There is no comparison between the cowardly members of congress who send others off to war but are afraid to go themselves and the braves soldiers and Marines who actually fight our ground wars.

    • I whole heartily agree, if congress and the Military command can mandate that military cuts involve military retirement pay, then it should also be mandated that their retirement pay be cut. The retirement medical benefit is almost laughable. I remember hearing of a case where a retired serviceman sued for the military not fulfilling his medical benefits after retirement. I believe the final decision was that the Recruiting Command had misled the soldier.

    • Who in the DOD suggested this plan? He or she needs to be identified. Why do we allow any member of Congress to serve one term and iscan retire with full benefits? They are unsstainable and so are some in the DOD.

    • amen

    • lets see how many politicians run if you cut there pay; I think public office is a volunteer position and they should take a huge pay cut; its funny i can remember one year getting 4% raise however congress received a $40,000 raise, and taxes went up 4% we elect these idiots

    • The thing that is really disappointing about all this is that none of them practice what they preach. For example, ADM Mullen retires OCT 1 and he sure isn’t going to miss out on his retirement, nor is he gong to have to suffer through the Defense Business Board plan. My plan–if it goes into effect– will be to collect all the names of the Congress members who will vote yes if the plan comes to a vote. Then in forums such as this, I will ensure everyone knows who they are. I will not vote for these jokers in 2012.

    • This is why we can compare Military to Civilian retirement.
      http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/08/ap-special-

      God Bless them and thier families. RIP BROTHERS!

    • I dont agree with the new plan but know something must be done for the country and the soldiers. Most of all I hate complaining. If you dont like it change it we live and fight for America the great home of the free. Nothing is fair in this world and nothing is easy but educate yourselves look beyond what you hear from people. Military pay sucks, the new retirement plan has benefits and major downfalls. Take a look at what congress and the president make and tell me that the soldiers are faily treated for what we go thru and put our families thru. Nothing ventured is nothing gained if no one steps up to change what is going to happen it will happen. I still plan to finish my 20 years I have 12 left. I have been on 3 deployments and have a small family. I am a SSG Joseph L Lollino in the US Army I have been wounded and I am one of two living medics from America’s war on terror that has been awarded the Distingushed Service Cross. I counted and still count on the 20 year retirement with hope that it will not change or the new proposal will get ammended. But I would not change who I have served with and what I have done. America’s Best serve and have served in the military. The largest problem I see from what I have read is everyones lack of unity. There is one side here the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen retired or currently serving that is the side you should be on. So for god’s sake stop with your complaining and do something arguing on a forum helps no one. God Bless America. “Never forget a Fallen Comrade”

      Effective January 1, 2001, the annual salary of the president of the United States was increased to $400,000 per year, including a $50,000 expense allowance.

      The increase was approved as part of the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act (Public Law 106-58), passed in the closing days of the 106th Congress.

      “Sec. 644. (a) Increase in Annual Compensation.–Section 102 of title 3, United States Code, is amended by striking ‘$200,000′ and inserting ‘$400,000′. (b) Effective Date.–The <> amendment made by this section shall take effect at noon on January 20, 2001.”

      Vice President’s Salary

      The salary of the vice president is currently (for 2011) $230,700

      Presidential Retirement and Maintenance

      Under the Former Presidents Act, each former president is paid a lifetime, taxable pension that is equal to the annual rate of basic pay for the head of an executive federal department — $199,700 in 2011 — the same annual salary paid to secretaries of the Cabinet agencies.

      Each former president and vice president may also take advantage of funds allocated by Congress to help facilitate their transition to private life. These funds are used to provide suitable office space, staff compensation, communications services, and printing and postage associated with the transition. As an example, Congress authorized a total of $1.5 million for the transition expenses of outgoing president George H.W. Bush and Vice President Dan Quayle.

      The Secret Service provides lifetime protection for former presidents who entered office before January 1, 1997, and for their spouses. Surviving spouses of former presidents receive protection until remarriage. Legislation enacted in 1984 allows former Presidents or their dependents to decline Secret Service protection.

      Former Presidents and their spouses, widows, and minor children are entitled to treatment in military hospitals. Health care costs are billed to the individual at a rate established by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). Former Presidents and their dependents may also enroll in private health plans at their own expense

      U.S. Congress salaries and benefits have been the source of taxpayer unhappiness and myths over the years. Here are some facts for your consideration.

      Also See: The 10 Wealthiest Members of Congress

      Rank-and-File Members:

      The current salary (2011) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.

      Members are free to turn down pay increase and some choose to do so.

      In a complex system of calculations, administered by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, congressional pay rates also affect the salaries for federal judges and other senior government executives.

      During the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin considered proposing that elected government officials not be paid for their service. Other Founding Fathers, however, decided otherwise.

      From 1789 to 1855, members of Congress received only a per diem (daily payment) of $6.00 while in session, except for a period from December 1815 to March 1817, when they received $1,500 a year. Members began receiving an annual salary in 1855, when they were paid $3,000 per year.

      Congress: Leadership Members’ Salary (2011)

      Leaders of the House and Senate are paid a higher salary than rank-and-file members.

      Senate Leadership

      Majority Party Leader – $193,400

      Minority Party Leader – $193,400

      House Leadership

      Speaker of the House – $223,500

      Majority Leader – $193,400

      Minority Leader – $193,400

      A cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) increase takes effect annually unless Congress votes to not accept it.

      Benefits Paid to Members of Congress

      You may have read that Members of Congress do not pay into Social Security. Well, that’s a myth.

      Prior to 1984, neither Members of Congress nor any other federal civil service employee paid Social Security taxes. Of course, they were also not eligible to receive Social Security benefits. Members of Congress and other federal employees were instead covered by a separate pension plan called the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). The 1983 amendments to the Social Security Act required federal employees first hired after 1983 to participate in Social Security. These amendments also required all Members of Congress to participate in Social Security as of January 1, 1984, regardless of when they first entered Congress. Because the CSRS was not designed to coordinate with Social Security, Congress directed the development of a new retirement plan for federal workers. The result was the Federal Employees’ Retirement System Act of 1986.

      Members of Congress receive retirement and health benefits under the same plans available to other federal employees. They become vested after five years of full participation.

      Members elected since 1984 are covered by the Federal Employees’ Retirement System (FERS). Those elected prior to 1984 were covered by the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). In 1984 all members were given the option of remaining with CSRS or switching to FERS.

      As it is for all other federal employees, congressional retirement is funded through taxes and the participants’ contributions. Members of Congress under FERS contribute 1.3 percent of their salary into the FERS retirement plan and pay 6.2 percent of their salary in Social Security taxes.

      Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they’ve completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Members of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension.

      The amount of a congressperson’s pension depends on the years of service and the average of the highest 3 years of his or her salary. By law, the starting amount of a Member’s retirement annuity may not exceed 80% of his or her final salary.

      According to the Congressional Research Service, 413 retired Members of Congress were receiving federal pensions based fully or in part on their congressional service as of Oct. 1, 2006. Of this number, 290 had retired under CSRS and were receiving an average annual pension of $60,972. A total of 123 Members had retired with service under both CSRS and FERS or with service under FERS only. Their average annual pension was $35,952 in 2006.

    • You wanna send your hate mail…here.

      http://capwiz.com/moaa/utr/2/?a=50832716&i=115648045&c

      Forcing Miltary folks to invest in the stock market that Obama destroyed. I want to opt out of paying FICA like the Sentators did. I want to not pay taxes like them either. More Liberal idioticness, vote these people the **** out in Nov it’s the only hope the country has.
      Think about this, you buy a house and like everyone who bought a home in the last 5 years are upside down in it (thanks liberals). The Military FORCES you to move and foreclose (cant get a shortsale on a VA or with a Govt job). Then with 5 years left to retire and a foreclosure on your credit you find out that your retirement will be gone too. (thanks again liberals) At age 40+ with a blown back from combat missions and going where you were FORCED, what the **** are you supposed to do?

      • Obama didn’t destroy the stock market. Let’s make sound statements here people.

      • Why are you blaming the liberals? It is the conservatives that continue to gut the working and middle class of benefits. All in the name of the free market. Nothing will change if we continue to blame the liberals for the policies of the wealthy conservative elite.

      • Please explain to me how President OBama destroyed the Stock Market

      • Buying a house is a gamble. You should never expect to live in a house for less than 5 years and make a profit. No one in the government forced you to buy a house. In most cases, it never makes sense for a military family to buy a house unless you plan on retiring there. And the housing market has been 20 years in the making (both sides are to blame).

    • A REAL SOLDIER says:

      NEED TO ADJUST THE MEMBER OF CONGRESS RETIREMENT PLAN , AN STOP FOOLING WITH THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY RETIREMENT ALONG .

    • Unfortunate and really a bad concept and plan.
      1. TSP is essentially a 401k. 401ks were never intended to be retirement plans but supplements. How many people are working now because their 401ks were adversely affected by market downturns and they don’t have the retirement buffer they planned on?
      2. This plan will hurt both recruitment and retention. The second part is especially troublesome because most highly trained individuals will have little incentive to stay in past minimum commitment when they can make more elsewhere. We will no longer have the professional committed military that we have now.
      3. If this plan goes through there will be a mass exodous from the military ranks adding to problems that already exist in the civilian sector.
      4. The only winners in this proposal are the financial services sector who will be managing these contributions and getting paid regardless of how well the market happens to be doing.

    • I agree that would reduce spending. Also they should get the same COLA as the Military does, See how they like the 1.5 % pay raise. I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

  2. I'm betting whoever made this recommendation never served a day in the military and the closest they came to combat was on their nintendo.

    • foxxx497 says:

      Former Marine Corps pilot Richard Spencer.

      • He was not on the board he had a blog, read up first. The board was made up of 6 and only 2 served and none retired.

    • tnshooter1943 says:

      I agree 100%.

    • The problem is he did serve, but he is already retired so he does not care.

      • The problem with the Armed Services Committee and the current Joint Chiefs stragety. Those on the committee has not served a day in uniform, and the Joint Chief retirement will not be affected. Leave office and screw the troops.

      • He never actually retired. He went to work on Wall St and help put our country in the crisis that we are currently in…

    • nickerson says:

      This is OBAMA at his best, how can I s c r e w the military.

      • How the **** does this have anything to do with Obama???? Can you point me to where it says, President Obama has a fantastic idea on how to save money and screw the military at the same time’. No, you can’t? I didn’t think so.

        On a side note, retirement benefits are the only reason why I’m staying in until 20…teachers don’t earn nearly enough, the supplement to my income will help pay the bills.

        • Are you kidding? Teachers make way too much. That is why 80% of the schools' budget goes to teacher and admin staff benefits. My property taxes are outrageous for the pathetic product the "wonderful and underpaid" teachers put out. Teachers are paid too much – please, give me a break.

        • SirKnight says:

          Autumn; I case you forgot … POTUS is the Cdr-in-Chief of the Armed Forces! And unless he's not keeping up on the latest within the military, nothing of this magnitude would ever see the light of day without his specific direction. As for your motivations to stay in the military until 20 yrs just to get the retirement … Why don't you save those of us who joined who volunteered to serve the sob story and quit now, since you were obviously only in it for yourself anyway!

          • Might want to poll those you serve with. Me and about 95% of my unit over 15 years service are only staying because of the retirement. Without it, we all would have left long ago. Please spare us the whole “we do it for love of country” speech. That’s obvious but there is much more to it than that hog wash.

        • Hello guy, thats what they are pissed about you will not be grandfathered!! no extra income then!! If your at 18 you will get 25% they TSP when your 59.5, THIS WILL NOT BENEFIT YOU!!!!

      • Mr. Nickerson:

        Bush, Sr, screw the military when he started to privatizes the military and Bush, Jr., finish the job. Michelle Bachmann is also screwing the military.

        Teachers don't make much in salary or in retirement. If the teacher unions were all powerful as people claim they are, they would be making twice or three time their present salaries and you see a lot of males applying for teaching positions in this country.

        • Remember any time the government needs to save money they make adjustments to the military pay system. Read they info if your in combat areas or hardship tours your get more points IN OTHER WORDS hopefully your don’t pay in as much to collect as much hint hint

      • HOOK MASTER says:

        Its NOT just OBAMA!!! Its all of the millionaires running the country. Or should I say pretending to be taking care of us. Hanney said he had more pressing things to do than serve

    • fishinjo says:

      You are most like right! I thought it was always lead by example. Let our congressional leaders change their life time retirements before they touch ours. Even then how much more does a service member need to do to provide form their families? By the time you come out of the service after 20 years you feel 80 and look 65. It balances out to me…

    • Completely agree with you!!! The military is not a 9:00am thru 5:00pm job, is a 24hrs, 7day week job.

  3. I can bet the individuals who retired from the military and are recieving retirement pay made sure that their pay wouldn't be affected when this goes through… assholes.

    • O G BLANKENSHIP says:

      PERSONALLY I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUTHOUSE YOU WERE SETTING
      IN WHEN YOU REPLIED TOO THIS EMAIL .. BUT IT IS CERTAIN THAT YOU DIDN'T STAY IN LONG ENOUGH TOO RETIRE . THOSE OF ;US WHO DID, MADE OURS THE HARD WAY . I WENT FROM BASIC TRAINEE
      THROUGH S/SGT FIGHTING EVERY STEP OF THE WAY TOO GET A STRIPE . I DIDN'T BROWN NOSE LIKE A LOT OF OTHERS I KNEW .
      I DON'T APPRECIATE PEOPLE DOWN ON RETIREE'S . WE DID WHAT WE FELT WAS NECESSARY SINCE SOME LIKE YOU TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT AND NOW ALL YOU WANNA DO IS BITCH AND GRIPE.

      • I do not think he is bashing all retirees. The retired General who headed up this board is who he is complaining about. i would not take offense to his post unless you were on the board to cut your fellow soldiers and sailors.

    • Ret A.F. MSgt says:

      You do not have a clue as to what you are talking about! I spent 20+ years in the A.F., going where ever I was sent (to include 4 remotes) during the Viet Nam Era and did not officially complain to anyone. And how can a retired individual make sure that their pay would not be effected? Before you make anymore stupid comments stop and take time to think about what you're saying.

    • R. Johnson says:

      When there are never more than a few of our elected officials that know what standing in harm's way actually means then they should have no say on military pay and benifits. They have exempted themselves from most of what the average citizen and every military person is bound by and that is a short order is exactly why none of them should be getting the pay and benifits that they do.

    • I'm retired and I resent your dumb ass statement.

    • Jeff I I had no say in the matter but as one of those already receiving my retired pay it would unfair and a breach in turst and contract to cut the pay of those already retired. I do not agree with changing the plan of someone already in the military either, however those in the future if it is changed will know what they sign up for. The same should go for medical benifits if they start messing with them.

    • Mick in Montana says:

      Oh, Jeff, you make your ignorance so vividly apparent! Only a moron who has no clue re how such decisions are made could lose control of his sphincter in order to dribble out such an inane "bet." Actually, I'd love to take your bet. I'd win. Trouble is, you probably don't have a dime to bet with. I'm a retiree, having given over 20 years of service to my (and your) country. I am collecting what is lawfully mine; what I earned; and what is really pretty fair for my service. Nevertheless, I don't have a whit of influence when it comes to the decisions made by boards, committees or other bodies who decide how much to reward us for our years of service. If I could "make sure" of anything it would be that we get an administration in place in 2012 who has the knowledge, experience and ability to unify our populace and provide some leadership so that our nation can get back to growing and proudly setting a standard for the rest of the world to envy. It's crystal clear that impeachment or any other action to curtail the reign of The Annointed One isn't going to happen so we can only pray that clearer heads prevail in a year and a half from now. Sadly, when 50% of the populace doesn't pay a nickel in taxes, those of us who do have a steep slope to climb in order to get rid of the lop-eared moron who presently occupies OUR house at 1600 PA Ave. But I digress – Jeff, you're wrong.

      • Mick, good point until you started pointing blame at the President. Everyonewants to blame the President but no one looks to the elected officials that can be lobbied. The President does not write laws, Congress do. Instead of waiting until the next election do your research now, see how your congressman & senators are voting, then decide who is responsible and take action. Otherwise you continue to perpetuate the problem.

    • Jeff-Im retired from the military and I did not have any say so as to whether my retirement would be affected. I will say that I have family and friends in the military and my thoughts are with them and how they will be affected. Sorry you think all that who are receiving military pension right now had a voice in the decision made. If I had one I definitely would not went after anyone serving 20 years or more for their country.

    • I didn't have a thing to do with this! I am retired and I think this stinks like shit! My Brother and sisters in arms deserve every cent earned in twenty years of the current retirement system and it should stay!

    • You are a dumb a** Jeff. I served 26 years been in 2 wars and every third world toilet in the world. I earned my retirement.

  4. MSG (r) Roberts Sr says:

    I do not think it is fair because these soldiers put their life on the line some more than others and they uproot their families and have to move for the good of the service and what do they get in the end.

    • nickerson says:

      Your so right, I'm a Vietnam Vet and got shot at, sprayed on by Agent Orange, spent 20 years in. This is just like the left wing ERIC HOLDER and OBAMA playbook. Just think if we were not in war right now they really would be putting the s c r e w s to you.

      • Mr. Nickerson, President Reagan, Bush, Senior, Bush, Jr., and other right wing politicans screw you veterans as well whether you were in a war or not.

    • chendrixjr says:

      I don't know about you but a primary consideration of mine that convinced me to stay in uniform was the retirement aspect. Without it, if I could have received the same in the civilian workplace, I obviously would have chosen the civilian work force This type of program will seriously hurt retention of qualified and experienced personnel. Why stay in the military if you can get the same thing working in the civilian sector, not have to worry about being deployed or uprooting /separating families? This is not a good idea. It reeks of politics instead of common sense.

    • Clark Corley says:

      I am an Air Force TSG. Ret. And I agree with you 100% and I am shure their are a lot of retirees that agree with you.

    • i say lets cut pays and retirement for all of congress and senators i bet america could save a bundle there. everyone better wake up or military people will . my husband gave his life for this country and you know what congress could care less about his widow. another thing it didnt take congress months to vote themselves a fat raiseI love America but i am ashamed of the people that run it.

  5. How about getting the pay up to civilian wage. And i dont mean mcdonalds 10.00 hr or wal mart pay them what they our worth so they can afford to put into a tsp and retire.Lets get real a E-3 with a wife& kid on the way. No basehousing and you want them to pay a retirement wake up!!!!

    • DShirley says:

      Military pay in MANY MOSs outpace their civilian counterparts!!

      • Not true. I challenge you to prove this.

        Many leave the military & get contract jobs doing the same thing for over twice the pay. I could do my job now for a contractor like Black Water (whatever their new name is, assuming they’re hiring) for almost 4 times my current pay, and with better lifestyle…

    • then as an E3 don't get the wifey pregnant…ah…common sense..keep the legs closed.

      • cggunswife says:

        If that is the case and we are applying the rule of station in life to being able to start a family then let’s stop WIC, food stamps and section 8 housing or any other form of public assistance for civilians. If we stopped rewarding people for having large households with low income it would really cut down on the debt and detour those that are having kids just to stay on public assistance programs from having so many kids!! We have created third generation welfare children. If we placed deadlines for benefits to expire or only payed assistance for up to 2 children for so long, people would need to find a job etc.. But instead of looking at the cultural problem that we have created in this country and fixing it we turn a blind eye to it and punish hard working Americans that get up and go to work every day. Giving to those that will never understand and appreciate it or want for a better way of life (expecting everything to be handed to them). The military are not the only ones affected but we should not be on the chopping block every time the government goes on a shopping spree and needs to cover their hide. Congress would not so careless if they had to feel the effects of the choices they are making! The military should not have to avoid moving forward in life because the list to advance has been locked down due to budget cuts or military pay being so low. I have never really understood why it is acceptable to take from the military men and women that are the back bone of security in this great country. Wake up Mome :) I recommend a little of your own advise, “keep the legs closed” (if not applicable keep your pants on) one less like you would do us all a little good.

        • Here, Here!!

        • Cggunswife, that’s not fair. You’ve basically lumped everyone on public assistance into one category. Not fair and not true. Many take public assistance because they have no choice. But that’s a different debate. This article is about military pay. Why take from the weak to continue funding congress & senators? Not saying no overhaul is due to welfare but federally funded programs that teach *** education, that provide jobs training to youth, that introduced college opportunity to youth….are gone. Show a child they have options and they will end the cycle. I did.

      • missedtrashday says:

        this should be directed at people on welfare, not at people in the military!

    • Well said indeed Tom!

    • Acartaya says:

      There is plenty of base housing. There is also BAH for Soldiers with families. You need to wake up and know the facts. If that PFC a, can't manage his money, and b is unwilling to wear a condom than he and you both must be drinking the same stupid cool aide and both need to wake up…

      • marine wife says:

        Excuss me acartya, but just because u have base housing doesn’t mean that omg all ur bills r automatically paid for, I guess u fail to realize that there r such things as car payments, insurance, clothing, food, and etc. Must come out of ur pocket or do u happen to think all of us military families have a money tree growing in our backyards, well im sorry but that is wish full thinking… and as far as an e3 being a pfc well I must say someone needs to learn their ranks… so before opening ur big mouth full of ur “stupid cool aide” then maybe u should think about that and get off of toms case, and btw its natural to have sex with ur spouse and birth control is only 99% effective so it happens and even then married couples do wanna have kids what do u suggest having kids when ur 40+, how about no! So as to u tom I do see ur point :)

      • There was no base housing for me3 until I was an E5. Then it was the crappiest housing on base. the higher the rank the better the house. Also if you had on boy child and one girl child, they had to move you out of a two bedroom into a 3 bedroom when the first kid reached 6.

        Acartaya, maybe you should wake up. There is not enough base housing for all married enlisted. The housing allowance for an E3 was a pittance. But you got a 15 dollar raise per month for each kid. When I went to Germany my family stayed at home for almost 3 months so I could sign a contract to rent a house or apartment from a German. All enlisted had a 12 month waiting period for base housing. We stayed off base and I was an E7 there.

        The biggest crap you said was that the E 3 just couldn't manage his money. That means to me you were never an E3 with a family so you shouldn't even comment on this. There just wasn't that much money to manage. Pay for rent car and then food with what was left. There was nothing left to manage my friend.

  6. Guess those who have 20 or more years better retire NOW…

    • nickerson says:

      Knowing the 53 left wing SENATORS in the DEMOCRAT PARTY they will find a way to keep you in tell they get this push through.

      • Bachmann wants to cut military benefits and retirement and she is a Republican. How many other Republicans senators and house members are siding with her?

    • That is exactly what I told my husband, and I don't understand how they can keep you from getting your retirement pay until age 65 IF you have to stop "working" once you reach your 20+ years. Where is your income coming from? Another career I suppose.

      • The same way that any 401(k) type plan works. It’s written that way

        The way that they are looking at it, if yo uget out at 20 you will be in tahe 38-40 years old range, with 20 more employable years left.

        ‘Course we all know that 20 years Active Duty in no way compares to 20 years of civilian employment, but …

        • Your right it does not compare and also at retirement age we are not in the age group employers are looking for in a real career, best bet good job DOD boooo then MD's

  7. Why don't the folks at capital hill take a good look at there own retirement.
    Serve four or more years and presto chango pention for the rest of there lives with benefits. A soldier Serves twenty or more years, puts his life on the line and guess what presto chango her or she gets SCREWED!! Go figure If you control it you get to call the shots. All I can say is jsut keep it up capital hill and you will find that the tide will change and not in your favor. You are ELECTED OFFICIAL, you can be unelected……….
    Have a nice day ( if you can) ;-)

    • Actually, they only need to serve 2 or more years, not even 4, for a lifelong pension.

      • retired says:

        Actually, they need to serve 5 to be vested, accumulating @ 1.7% of base pay per year, collectable@ 62. FERS rates. After 20, they get a total of 34% of their base pay (and can collect@ 55).

    • JJ Retired says:

      The right idea. Put congress on the same plan!!

    • socom2mg says:

      preech it on brother..when ever there is some financial burden with in the system, big officials hit the people for it all. Not only do We The People have to generate items for them to invest in for their riches, we also have to sacrifies our lives by fighting wars for their freedoms and riches. 20 years of being f****d with I guess isnt enough but not to lessen the hurt of cops, but the cops injured in that big L.A bank robery are getting life benefits of PTSD etc. and that lasted a few hrs if that. Congress and all of them seems to be acting as our for-fathers warned—King John Is in the House!! with his Slithering Snake!

    • They are elected but by the time they are unelected they are in for pension.

    • royclementjr says:

      Or on the other hand the old battle flag Don't Tread On Me could fly agian__on the battle field as the people of this nation take there country back.

    • I am with you 100% people wake up and get rid of the dead wood that run this country. Everyone needs to stand up and get our country back on track. split the pentions up also for congress and also the pay raises they vote for with no problem. If they put in four years give them four years pay and be done with it. we would all li ke to have their med. ins for the rest of our lives too. I wish I could get their pay, and all they have to do is screw up our country

    • Retired Army says:

      YES, YES, YES……..lets get angry and see what the hell we can do about
      those pensions on capital hill.
      This country will lose credibility to our younger generations……….no one
      will want to fight for THIS country.

  8. This is a crying shame…I retired almost two years ago with over 23 yrs in the Army and for the past two yrs all I ever read is countless articles on how to take money from those who have served and are serving to defend this country. When is this ever going to stop? When will someone stand up and fight for our rights? Where is the VA office? Why haven't this been on FOX, MSNBC or CNN…I'm sick of this BS!!!!

    • No kidding, the VA really does need to stand up and say something. This is out of control lately. Rather than take money away from the Navy's production of the stealth ship or the Air Force's fleet of untouchable futuristic billion-dollar jets, they'd rather go after soldiers' benefits. Disgusting.

      Not to mention, soldiers' benefits don't cost the DoD NEARLY as much as the Research & Development does for the defense budget.

    • dadda321 says:

      This will stop when the POTUS and other elected officials stop worrying baout re-election and really fising spending.

    • goodoleusa1 says:

      Not to mention, retired military, including myself have not recieved a raise in 2 years…

    • I just wish my husband would see his retirement pay, they take it away dollar for dollar to pay his VA disability (he is in the catchment of a small minority who do not get concurrent pay) plus we are required to pay for Tricare (in order to be seen at an MTF) we pay for Medicare (required to use the VA system, although he is 100%) and we pay a ridiculous amount for dental coverage ($95 per month for $1200 per year coverage) and for what? to be threatened with more money being taken from us. We are losing our house as I am unable to work (I am my husband's caregiver) and I get not one damn dime to care for him! Seriously, what is wrong with this picture? My husband did his job, did it well and gets crapped on daily. Enough already, leave our military alone and take from the alien residents who draw $10,000 a year on earned income credits/child tax credits ~ in fact, pay our military equal to their civilian counterparts and stop earned income credits altogether then maybe the people will work a bit harder in this nation.

    • socom2mg says:

      The VA ofice is in their pockets, remember. most of them are civilians who never served.

    • The VA is f**king worthless! I just retired last year and I'm already fed up dealing with them.

    • THERE IS NO ONE TO STAND UP FOR OUR RIIGHTS. ALL THE POLITICIANS WE HAVE SENT TO WASHINGTON TO LOOK OUT FOR THE VETS ARE ALL YES MEN TO THE PRESIDENT. THEY COULD CARE LESS IF VETS LIVED OR DIED. THE MEDIA IS AFRAID TO AIR THE TRUTH SO WE DON'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON. YOU ASKED WHERE IS THE VA OFFICE? THEY ARE SITTING THERE WITH THEIR TAILS TUCKED BETWEEN THEIR LEGS SCARED TO DEATH TO TRY TO HELP THE VET WITH SOME SERIOUS HEALTH PROBLEM, OR INJURY.
      WE CAN'T KEEP ANYONE AT THE VET OFFICE IN OUR SMALL TOWN, THEY QUIT SHORTLY AFTER THEY ARE HIRED. THE SYSTEM LOOKS
      AT IT THIS WAY, PUT THE VET OFF LONG ENOUGH, SOON HE WILL DIE,
      THEN WE WON'T HAVE TO PAY THEM. THE WHOLE SYSTEM STINKS!!!!!

  9. the real deal says:

    It is really disgraceful for a former service member to even think about doing this to other servicemembers. Escpecially at a time when so much sacrifice is being given by our brave men and women of the armed forces. Not to mention the sacrifice made by their families. I'll bet the people responsible for this one feel really proud of themselves, as if they have done something good. To top it off they probably are not even concerned about how this will affect thousands of soldiers. I can promise you…this will not turn out as grand of an idea as the thinkers that be anticipate!!!

    • socom2mg says:

      They forget about a study done a few years back, stating that the biggest threat to our Government is our Vets. so many war lived vets can cause a hurt of pain to those that threaten them and the families. All vets have sworn to defend the Constitution and the people of the United States against foriegn and the forgotten domestic threats. All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
      Thomas Jefferson

    • well, remember, those members in the board are retired. they don't care, as long as not effecting their retirement.

  10. How about admin, fuelers, cooks, supply etc. get the thrift savings only no base pay salary percentage when they retire. 11B, 19D, 19K,etc. get both, but instead of the lesser percentages they get a higher percentage of base pay. Seems fair to me, they bear the brunt of the casualties, watch their friends perish more often, deal with the daily increased stress levels.

    No offense to the other MOS' I understand how much line soldiers need them, just saying I'd take some mortars and rockets over IED's and RPG's anyday.

    • So much for one team one fight, eh?

      • Active duty says:

        absolutely. This is the moment that all Americans should do a one team one fight. We are on a same boat and this boat has some serious leaks. Fix it. That's the only option we have if we do not want to repeat the history of the empire of Rome. It not only us to be hurt now.

        • We threw out American teamwork and replace it with rugged American individualism. By the way, if you talk to many people in the military, they stated that how you get promoted is up to you; however, what they actually mean is that they don't want to help you get promoted and will only think about only themselves.

      • Craig R. says:

        Really. You must not forget that these cooks, supply, fuelers, and admin are the ones that keep you in the fight. Without us your tank would be parked in the motor park, you will not be able to eat, you will not get paid. So before we bash Support MOS’s think about how you are geting the necessties in order to survive.

        “just say­ing I’d take some mor­tars and rock­ets over IED’s and RPG’s any­day.” Let’s not forget where that comes from and who gets these to you.

    • If this goes through I will leave the military. I am a SSG With 8 years in and have had much better job offers due to my MOS. The only thing keeping me in is that 20 year retirement. My point is the military will loose its best and brightest and will have to end up paying more in the end to have civilians teach new Soldiers the job myself and other experienced technicians are doing right now.

      • 8 years what do you know, you still a rookie take to me when you do 20 plus in the meantime shut the f#x$ up..

        • spc dilligaf says:

          So because you were in 20 plus u automatically know everything bout that e6′s mos and think ur better because of it? How does your comment relate to anything in this forum?……it doesn’t? Oh OK then maybe u should take your ******* comments out the army along with your retirement and be slient

          • THis jackass above is just upset because the Army times said no more SHI$% leadership and he was probably QMP out!!

        • I love how some people acount "time" as knowing all. I have been in 8 years myself and seen so many E7s and above who have no combat patch at all! It is the HIGHER UPS who duck and hide from combat. I feel THEY should get the 37%. I honestly feel that those who deploy and serve whether it be deployed on a ship or sub (Navy, Coast Guard, Marines) and deploys downrange (Army, Marines, AF) then they should get FULL BENEFITS. I bet Ortiz probably is one who ducked and hid from the real duties within the Army or whatever branch he was in. Or even better, if Congress wants to save why don't they pull a roster or every Soldier in the Army (other branches too) and see who has been hiding. Pull there @sses to deploy, if they don't then KICK THEM OUT! That right there could save more than $2,000 a month per person if not more!

          • Don’t forget that the Navy also deploys many “down range” as well. Plenty of Hornet, Prowlers, P-3s, helos, etc. in the sky of Iraq my time there. Saw plenty of “US Navy” and even some “Coast Guard” patches on the ground too. One team one fight is true. You can’t target retirement based on job…

        • Oh look who's jealous because his sorry A$$ took longer then 8 years or never made the cut!!

      • Under Bush, Jr., it was the soldiers who had to teach the civilian mercancies like Blackwater and Haliburton the jobs that the soldiers usually had to do but can no longer do it since those miliary jobs have been privatizes.

    • Its no ones fault you where too dumb to qualify for any other job.

    • AFELLA You should keep your opions to yourself when it comes to what you just said in your blog, I will never knock another MOS no offense who do you think escort those convoys full of supplies and equipment and have to deal with those IED' and RPG'S we all operate in a battle field operating system communicating with each other to accomplish a common goal, working as a team. How did you get those rounds, clothes , fuel, food, the latest devices in order for you to kick in those doors and to bring death to those therein we all deserve the same as equally as any other Soldier, Airman, Seaman or Marine, we are a team and members of a team dont knock other members of a team it's not professional.

    • blazerrick says:

      That would have been a fine idea a few years ago before everyone got into the fight no matter what their MOS was. Kinda why they had to introduce the CAB, wasn’t it? While I know we POGs don’t go on every mission, I know I have spent my fair share of time outside the wire and feel that what I and some of my colleagues have done more than qualifies me to get every bit as much retirement as a combat arms guy. Oh yeah, guess what, I speak from having been on both sides of the fence. I was 11B before and reclassed.

    • Hey douche, I have taken them all IED, RPG 5.56 and given them back and let me tell you a real grunt knows when to keep his mouth shut, oh it is that time for you!!!!

    • A "one-size-fits-all" mentality seems so Boer War'ish for a 21st century fighting force. Perhaps adjust Hazard Duty and Skill pays accordingly; rate it against units' or even individuals' orders and/or MOS, AFSC, Rate. Shouldn't be too hard to scale something in this day of info management. Just IMHO, a C-5 crew dropping-off mail at Manas AB shouldn't be raking-in a whole month of Combat Pay off a single mission, when there are bubbas spending months at a time going 'outside-the-wire'. Just an idea and of course, no offense intended towards the British Empire or C-5 crews:)

      • What about the cook who never leaves a base that never gets attacked? The current policy is appropriate. The discussion is on retirement, though, not s couple hundred given to aircrew.

    • If you will do some research I think that you will find that a very large number, if not the majority, of our casualties in OIF/OEF have been logistical type soldiers that were killed or wounded in convoys and other logistical operations. No job in the miltary guarantees your safety. There was a female CW5 legal assistant killed when the helicopter she was flying in was shot down.

    • So the 88m who drives everyday on the worst roads imaginable don't put themselves in danger, or the medic with the 11b, or the commo guy with that Platoon? I see all sorts of "low density" MOS's put their lives on the line to include one of my very own that lost his life to a grenade in Iraq. He wasn't combat arms. No offense but just stop posting

    • SSG Harris says:

      Just remember that when you went to MEPS and chose your job you had options. You chose to be in the infantry not in the support MOS. Still you chose the service because of your reasons just like the rest of us. Right now we are talking about all the services getting screwed together regardless of service, grade or the amount of time you have already put in. Remember that because soon we may all be fighting for the same cause regardless of job. We all had the choice to pick our jobs. So did you.

    • how far are the ground-pounders going to get without fuel? Need supplies – try Ranger Joe's. Hungry? – Too F'n bad. How effective are the ground forces in direct combat going to be without food, fuel and supplies? Before you dismiss someones' MOS as unimportant, maybe you should think about what they bring to the fight. I'm not in any of those MOS's, but smart enough to know that you win wars through the effectiveness of your supply / fuel system. Doesn't do any good to have 11Bs if they don't have any bullets or you can't get them into the fight. because you're out of fuel or your vehicles are broke. Something to think about.

    • You can't do that. Some of those logistics guys risk their lives as much as or more than the "combat MOS" guys. I'd be willing to bet that more 88M and other folks drafted into driving in a convoy have died than all 11 series combined.

    • Hey afella, I am a cook over here in Afghan. I am on the road constantly delivering much needed supplies to our line companies. Myself and the rest of my convoy which consist of cooks, fuelers, waterdogs, and a couple of 88m have been blown up multiple times, hit with RPGs, had Mortars launched at us while we were in the middle of a TIC and get shot at on a daily basis.

  11. Active duty says:

    if you are not satisfied by the new retirement plan, just get out of the military forces and find another job. Well, that works for me. I will get out and find me a civilian job. I am E4 with two masters degrees from a top 20 graduate school. I am really tired of being very well low paid. You guys have already been lucky because you were born in this country. I am a naturalized citizen and paying my price for the citizenship that US army gave me. Don't u think so? This country is being under serious financial crisis. Do what you can for this country, please don;t complain too much. All of us do not want this country to be broken for next 50 years, right? Many thanks.

    • CONCERNED says:

      Changing the military retirement system is not the answer. A better answer would be make Congress serve 20 years then give them 50% of their base pay, cct programs that we dont need to pay for, such as food stamps for the lazy, planned parenthood for those with no guidance, etc…
      The same people that are pushing this plan are probably the same group that thought the stimulus plan was a good idea. Maybe a better answer would be to get rid of those, and bring in someone with half a brain.

      • I agree with you Concerned!

      • A better answer would be change all terms to 4 years for all elected officials. No retirement or benefits ; same pay structure as enlisted members of the military service. Set up a TSP system for anybody that wants to go on a path of one term in the house, one term in the senate, one term as a cabinet secretary, one term as vice president ,etc. Letting anybody work 20 years in the legislative branch has a poor track record , think Thurmond, Ted Kennedy, Byrd etc.

      • I agree with you on most of your points but I don't believe getting rid of the food stamp program such a good idea since a lot of military families are participating in this program trying to feed their families due to their low pay.

    • you dont talk like you have 2 Master's degree but like an E4 who does not care. reflect on what you just said and please be educational on how much percentage does the US BUDGET as a whole regarding defense i.e. military? small percentage.

      • Are you kidding? 36% of the US federal budget is allocated to military spending and 18% for past military spending. You should do your research before commenting

      • I agree, there are other dept. in the govt. that can be reduce instead of military.

    • Really! says:

      If My Country, that I served 20 years in the Navy as a Combat Corpsman for, is that awful, then take your Degrees and go back to the country you came from and stop complaining! Citizenship isn't FREE here buddy!

      • Actually, it is… as long as you are lucky enough to be born here.

      • Active duty says:

        To Really!:
        I don't complain it at all. I accept it and am adopt to it. Okay, like you said, I should go back where I came from. Then where you should go for? Europe or Africa? Well, united, we stand. split, we fall. By the way, I paid my degrees by myself. I dont use a penny from US military to pay for that.

    • I recognize that you are a naturalized citizen, We are voicing our opinon because, we give billions to nations that hate us, we forgive nations their debt's, we pay welfare to able bodied people, we pay for Illegal's,we bail out the unions, all on our backs. But the one's they always cut the deepest is the military. Check it out for your self.

      • Active duty says:

        To Black 9:

        I agree with you. We should cut the aids for foreign countries and welfare. Just because we cannot afford this way any more. We should regulate wall street companies like Goldman Sachs more. Well, congress and presidential do disappoint me on that. People lose, wall street gain.

        • We need to stop buying friends aroun the world. When has any other country in the world gave the U.S. money for our friendship?

        • MSG, US Army says:

          Active duty:

          What Institution saw fit to award you 2 "masters" degrees, and what field?

          before you open your mind and post anything anywhere be mindfull of the dynamics of the topic discussed and those involved…

          Would you be all-in for your current employers budget cut-backs when they pull the rug from under your feet a few years from promised benefits? I DONT THINK SO, NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY YOURE FROM!

    • whatiswrongw/u says:

      Its people like you that give immigrants a bad rap. this country not only gave u a certificate of Naturalization, it also gave u the freedom and the education your native country probably would not give you. Y dont all this people that come up with ideas on how to cut back on spending start with their pay check! Two master degrees and the only way you can fiqure out how to become a citizen is by joining the armed forces.

      • Active duty says:

        It's just because of the education this country gave me which makes me realized how serious problem we have right now in the country. Everybody should do something for it. I am not saying the new plan is perfect or acceptable. What I am saying is every citizen of this country has a responsibility to deal with the problem.

        • Tell me this after you kill and die for apple pie. Until then you have no clue what the term serving your country means.

          • Sensible says:

            "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
            He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." George Patton

        • Do you realize that those who serve in the military are less than 1% of the citizens you say should share in the sacrifice? They way to get out of this problem is not to take it out of the pockets of those who sacrifice blood sweat and tears defending the freedoms the other 99% enjoy. They way is to cut spending, and get rid of the graduated budgeting system our government uses and go to a 0 balance based system. Right now there are automatic increases in budget projections for the agency needs it. For example. If I used 500 million of my 1 billion dollar budget, next year I get an automatic increase on the i billion instead of just 500 million.

          We need to stop comparing the military to a Corporate business. It is not! I don't get paid overtime, work on weekends, work more than an 8 hour day, required to maintain a certain physical fitness and appearance, cannot sue my boss, can't just quit when I want, get moved around every 3-5 years with no choice nor benefit to the move (which by the way prevents my wife fro building a career and children from building life long friends)

          This new plan will cause a loss of "lifers" and with them go the experience. Our military will become a useless as 90% of the other militaries in the world. Before you comment as to my knowledge of other militaries, I've spent 12 years in Europe, and 1 1/2 years in Korea. Not to mention deployments in the "Boxes."

          • TheRest of theStory says:

            EXACTLY! To sum it up, if you want a committed military, a military that does what it's told, goes where you send it and works until the job is done, and done right, you have to move away from the civilian retirement system. We are NOT civilians. We do NOT enjoy the freedom and privileges of civilians until we ourselves become "civilian." One more point that every retiree knows; we can be recalled to serve as long as we collect a check from the DOD. What civilian employer maintains that level of control to their past employees, retired or otherwise? Messing with military retirement systems is but the first move in a long, very expensive domino effect.

    • Disgusted says:

      If you got something HUGE from the govt- you're a CITIZEN now, seems you went about it an easy way– no??? Why can't others benefit from sacrifices from the military life brings? There were many times my husband tired of the long hours at the same pay and wanted to leave the military but we held out for retirement- now 18 yrs in as an officer starting as an enlisted member it would seem fruitless to take retirement that was promised!! That's one of the attractions to the military the retirment- now we'll see how much money will be spent training guys only to leave and use their skills in the civilian world. My husband's been made aware of many civilian job in his area of expertise and has been held out while friends go and make lots more money with oil companies after the military. With the economy the way it is i hope your degrees go a long way. You're welcome for your new status as a citizen and welcome to our country! Oh and you're welcome to pay us back by defending our country for a few more years! I hope that becomes a new law– naturalized citizens must serve 8-10 years!! It was way way too easy for you oh and you should have to go to war maybe hmmmm… By the way I'm hispanic, born and raised in the Southwest….

      • Active duty says:

        Since many military families have the common problem which you have, from my personal point of view, an amendment that allows the soldiers who have been in service for more than 10 years to keep the old plan is a negotiable option. I feel you, madam. If I were you, I will contact someone to throw out this idea. The change of retirement plan is inevitable. What we can do is to present some amendments.

      • Active duty says:

        By the way, I do have to serve 8 years, 4 and half active, 3 and half reserve. I wish it would satisfy you.

      • Dear Ms. Disgusted

        I'm sure your heart is in the right place but I do not consider a military retirement as an attraction for dying for your country. Putting your life and that of your families on hold for 20 or more years. The real question is; what should society pay for their freedom and to their guardians of their freedom? What should society pay for ones that give their lives for dedicated service. What price should be paid? If you really think about it the little retirement that a military member may receive if they live to retire is not a very high price to pay for one's freedom.

      • I am in the same boat as you and your husband. Four years to go and now….nothing to look forward to except hardship at the age of 47. Thank you for telling this person how many of us really feel!!!!!

        • TheRest of theStory says:

          You know, I had a supervisor in Korea that had a weight problem. He enlisted overweight because he was able to obtain a waiver. He served 4 years, still unable to achieve his weight requirement. He was offered another waiver and he reenlisted for 4 more years. This cycle continued until he had 16 years active duty. Now the powers that were offered him a 12 month extension, but alas he was not able to drop the weight and at 17 years active duty, he was denied reenlistment. He did his job very well, he "looked" fine in uniform, and if he were judged by today's standards, he would have been in compliance with all required standards.

          My point you ask? The DOD does what it needs to do, when it needs to do it. Unite. Stand together to prevent the wrongs from happening. All Sailors, Soldiers, Marines, Airman and Coast Guardsmen. Regardless of MOS or AFS, stand and be heard. NO changes to the current retirement system without grandfathering every person serving today.

          As a retired Airman, nothing matters more to me than the fair and equal treatment of us all, currently serving or retired. If we don't care about each other with an "all for one, one for all attitude" who else will?

    • this might sound mean but please understand. It is great that you are paying the army back for the citizenship that you recieved from the army. Just know that if this goes though, and the stock market crubles, your 401K will be gone. that means you get nothing when you get out. I don't trust the market and never will. Right now I am just wondering when the civil unrest is going to start and we are orderd to kill the people that we all swore to protect is going to come down the line.

    • Two masters REALLY???? I question that ,but if you have paid attention to this economy then you would know that as soon as the massive surge of soldiers who are going to be asked to leave due to lack of funding to pay them will bombard the civilian sector and there will be no jobs for them therefore they will be flooding the state programs in turn requesting more federal funding. You think because you have two masters your going to walk onto a position that is going to get you money,,,Your not realistic, unless your are part of the "its not who you know its who you blow generation" Your going to struggle. People working at McDonald's have Masters degrees. Wake up before you are another statistic to our failing economy…Stay in its a job and you are getting paid be happy about that..It has NOTHING to do with Love of Country. It has everything to do with job opportunities, we have outsourced ourselves into debt

      • Active duty says:

        To Susan:

        Maybe you are right. But still like I said, the reform has to be done for this country's sustainable development. What I can get in future or what I can not get in future doesn't mean anything for this profound reform.

    • To Active Duty: I'm perplexed that you have 2 Masters Degree from a top 20 school and your grammer sucks. How did you pass your writing classes?

      • Active duty says:

        To Joe:

        Get yourself some education, please. Then you wouldn't be so worry about the reform.

        • Active duty says:

          "be so worrying abt". I should have been more careful on my typos in writing. thanks for ur advice.

      • He didn't necessarily state that he received his two masters degrees in the USA and I'm sure he didn't do it as an E4. Unless of course he plans to retire as an E4. I suspect that he may not be willing to make the ultimate call to duty when the time comes.

        • Active duty says:

          Just a friendly remind, I love this country because I chose to. I don't know about you, but I know what allures me and what I am pursuing.

    • Thanks for what? You haven't made a valid point. You are only expressing your views as the exception because of your own accomplishments. If you were ever a leader of people you would understand diversity in others, not just ethnicity, but there desires and goals too. Not everyone measures success by degrees. That would work well for you in having less competition in your career field. As for people who may be complaining, most have chosen to serve and done all that was required of them and more. They have a right to be supported by the contracts in which they signed on to. Two part deal and one has been held up…..now what about the other part? The adjustments that the Government has to make can be made by honoring written agreements and contracts.

      • Active duty says:

        To Tod T:

        I agree with you on all that you present here. But, still, the problem is we can not afford it anymore. Welfare has to be cut, like what Schroeder did in Germany.

    • drillmouth says:

      2 MS's+top 20 grad school = zip. You got what you went in for – now get out! You the heck do you think created this mess – the military? Good luck with your new job – have you looked at the employment stats? You learned what? in the military? What kind of experience do have to go along with those degrees? Are they in fields that are expanding or declining? Honestly, good luck and thank you for your service.

      • Active duty says:

        Frankly speaking, this mess is created by everyone of America. We consume much more than we can produce every year. That's the origin of this economy crisis. Well, last deep recession at 1920s was created because we consume much less than we could produce. The two crisis look same to each other but they are not. So, everyone of US should take some responsibility, more or less. Even after years when I am out, I will still support to cut the excessive welfare. Because, from what I saw, the system is being abused.

    • Active duty says:

      here are some critiques from my another post:

      In fiscal year 2010, more than 85000 foreigners got job offers in USA with their H1B visa in less one single year. The application of H1B visa is very costly, time consuming and sometimes a legal nightmare. Why don't we just learn something from the foreigners. They don't have citizenship, they don't even have green cards,they pay their education on their own, but still they can be employed. Federal government has given us some many benefits, like medical, education and everything. The country just can not afford it that much. Why don't we present some feasible opinions except complaints. Comparing with the H1B visa holders(foreign non-immigrant workers), military employees are just too lucky.

      • Too lucky??? Almost anyone can choose to serve in the military. You have to make the choice. You don't just luckily get a job in the military. Most people don't want to make that choice because it's hard work and can be dangerous. This isn't some easy job that people were lucky enough to get and are being overpaid for, it's a sacrifice. The retirement plan is a reason a lot of people sacrifice for. The military earns their retirement and should be able to keep what was promised to them in return for their service.

    • Active duty says:

      To my battle buddies:

      I feel you, buddy. I do have an immature idea that this new military retirement plan should be combined with cutting congressmen' retirement welfare. And soldiers who have served for more than a certain amount of time, for example, 10 years, may be exempted from the new plan. But I am just nobody, an expendable junior enlisted soldier. United, we stand, why don't you guys unite and present this kind of proposal to someone who does matter?

    • Well you used the military to get you citizenship and now your bailing, talk about doing what you can!!! good job. MOVE ON

      • Active duty says:

        It's not only you who lose money. I am losing money too and it is called opportunity cost. I am pretty sure that if your son has such a background, you wouldn't let him do what I did. When others pay their prices, you don't care and you even don't admit that it's a sacrifice. Now it's your turn, and you jump out and want a grandfathering. What a joke.

    • You didn't take any English in school how did you get away with that, your grammar and typing is garbage. Oh and by the way you suck at life.

      • Active duty says:

        get some education please. Don't just rely on taxpayers' money and be lazy. Anyway, congress know how to deal with someone like you. My suggestion is, suck it up or get away. USA taxpayers have spoiled you too much.

      • Active duty says:

        "You didn't take any English in school how did you get away with that, your grammar and typing is garbage. Oh and by the way you suck at life."

        There are grammar mistakes in every sentences above. I can only call it STREET ENGLISH. By the way, English is my second language. I speak another language that you don't even know nothing about it.

        • Active duty says:

          oops, there is a grammar mistake above. I am sorry, Jason. It should be "I speak another language that you don't even know nothing about." Well, If you really think your grammar is great, please take TOEFL(Test of English as a Foreign Language). There is a section in the test which is just designed to test your knowledge about grammar. After you get it done, post your transcript here please.

    • Wilbur O'Neal says:

      Well, I'm sorry guy but it's already happened. I can tell you what's happens next military pay will get cut so low that servicemembers will have no choice but leave the service. There will be better paying jobs on the outside and guess what he won't have to risk his/her life over in some country. This is a bad move, I am retired, I served 22 long years in the Army. In a few years there won't be an military

    • mad at you says:

      this is the stupidest thing I have hear. If you have been in the military you know that you just can't get out. You know that they will make you serve your 20 years after being in more than 10 and then give you only a part of what you have earned. You also know that not all MOS get to sit in an office all day and do their class work. Some soldiers actuallydo there job.

    • Well I think you brag to much, and by the way there's no guarantee you will have a job waiting for you. And if you did, how long will it last?And by the way I was E-5 in three years.I think you are blowing smoke up some ones A$%.Look in in the mirror, make your self believe, no one else believes you.

    • Find "me" a job??? What master's programs did youi graduate from? They must be super easy to let someone without basic English skills through!

    • Retired AF says:

      you don't know what's happening on the outside. There are no jobs. Even for people with two degrees. You better get the job first before you get the discharge'

    • Don't complain? You should get out selfless. After 17years in, now for the military to change this and not grandfather is a sin. If your an e4 with 2 masters degrees either you have too much time on your hands or you were foolish to come in in the first place!

    • An E-4 with two Masters Degrees. Very impressive!! Nooooottt!! Apparently your Master Degrees didn't pay off judging by you're comment. You sound very uneducated young man. Sounds to me you used the Army just to obtain citizenship in this country. You're tire of being very low paid. Everyone knows that you don't join the Armed Forces to get rich. Our saleries are pulic knowledge. How can you speak in such a manner towards the many soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines who have given more than 20 plus years to their country. You're an E-4. No slight to the other E-4 s who serve, but I have to make this point in regards to you Unless you've already been in combat situation, you have not yet begun to make any sacrifices. In a way, you're insulting those very people above you in your chain of command. You need to think about that E-7 or above who had your best interest at heart and had to balance the demands of his/her family and community. You might need to look at like this. We're sort of like dual citizens. Serving 20 plus years in the Armed Forces is no cake walk.

    • I think that main cause of dissention amongst the ranks here is this: Promises were made to us (Active duty members) by the gov't when we joined that they are now threatening to not honor. This is a very low thing to do. The closest comparison I can come up with is divorce. Now, I've never divorced but I can imagine it is horrible. Promises were made that were not honored; feelings were hurt, lives were disrupted, hopes and dreams were shattered. Mind you, the gov't can do whatever it wants to whoever it wants whenever it wants. That's its purogative. However, if they do this, they will never enjoy the loyal service that has been given to them for the past 235 years. You can't pull the rug out from under the military and not expect consequences. This will primarily come in the form of a mass exodus, average age lowering, and failure to make recruitment quotas accompanied by a "I don't give a Sh1t attitude.

    • Very easy for you to make this statement…how old are you?? I am 47 years old and have served this country for over 16yrs….all the while being promised retirement after 20 years of risking my life and leaving my son during deployments! I am a registered nurse and could hopefully find a civilian job, this is true. However, I feel betrayed…this country didn't tell me I would be cut short after 16yrs service. Do you know how many months I have spent sleeping in a tent with my weapon next to me…try that in your new civilian job?? I think you "were lucky" that the US Army gave you a naturalized citizenship….so much so that maybe that is the reason they are getting rid of people like me that have already served their country for 16yrs and then disposed of prematurely. Good luck with your citizenship and well paying job with your two masters degrees that the military probably paid for!!

      • TheRest of theStory says:

        I'd be looking for blood if I were you Renae. I hope these changes don't happen, but if they do, no one could blame you if you go "postal."

    • I feel really sad to have served my country for so long… then to hear of the news of the proposed plan. The only thing that makes me more saddened, more sick is your post! Our government truly has gone wild on spending….you are a fine example of this!

    • you are a fool. these are the men and women that defend you silly butt. people like you should get on and thank the man you advised to quit the military. maybr you should go back and visit your country and then you would appreciate those that have served their country for you.

    • Wow! I am so impressed with your 2 MBAs from a "top 20" school. You write like so many E4s that I knew in the navy. You can't even spell right let alone type or say in an educated way what you think. I am impressed

    • Doug CWO4 USMC (Ret) says:

      With your unAmerican attitude… you belong in Congress!!!

  12. dadda321 says:

    I don't see this plan lasting long, in fact I see it running into the same issues as social security. More poepl drawing out than what is available. Further to not grandfather some service memebrs will cause undo hardship on them. This really is an effort to downsize. But what really made laugh is how they say this plan will save 254 Billion over 20 years what a joke. The Defense Bussiness board, when did the military become a bussiness? Out of the total budget the Military spending is about 20%.
    Anyway it is amazing that the Marine GEN thinks this is a good idea, when was the last time he deployed and had to shoot move and communucate? Just another fine example of why we need to reduce the GO billtets by at least 60%, that woudl save aboutthe same, and probably in less time too.
    It is understandable that the military is seeking to down size, just like they did after Desert Shield. Maybe the military should just give the boot to all those who bobbed and weaved to get out of deployment. I mean that sounds fair to me.

    • alright did you know that it only cost the country 2.5 billion to pay the military. and they want to save 250 billion from the miliary.

    • Problem is as with all monies the government saves by cutting the budgets of several programs they don't save it. Instead they spend it on something else. Like on Pakistan to be our friend. When has the government ever saved any money? Cutting bugets in the military puts lives at risk.

      Yah a lot of you have complained including me but has anyone of us come with a plan that will work? Hey how about the government stop waisting office supplies at work? Does that report really need to be printed? Do we really need to issue new computers to office staff every three years when their old ones still work? Do you really need to travel across the world for a meeting when a video conference will do? Come on guys, their are already common sense ways to save money. the problem is is that no one is interested are they?

  13. Pretty sad that most of the people on that board never served a day in the military and are Obama's cronies. I'm sure that the retired Maj. Gen. on the board could care less since he's getting his check. I don't see this going anywhere but if by a slim chance it does, you'll see the military fall apart. Look what happened during the Carter years.

    • Exactly WHAT happened during the Carter years that you're talking about? All I remember about Carters time in office was that I received the LARGEST pay raise in my entire 24 years in the military, 11.7%

    • Congress wants the military to fall apart… thats the whole idea. I think if there isn't going to be a retirement plan anymore then every boy and girl should have to serve a minimum of 3 years in the military right out of highschool. That will be the only way to keep troops at a reasonable level. My wife and I are both e-4 and were planing on serving a full 20. Now we are reconsidering!

    • Obama's cronies? This, my friend, is Republican led. Read a little and you wont stick you foot in your **s.

    • USN ADC Johnson says:

      The falling apart of the military is the least of the elected officials worries. Without a functioning military there will be no United States. There will be the same result after the down sizing before Pearl Harbor. Someone will kick us in the face and again many thousands will die trying to save this country. Those of us that served for 20+ years will see our service go for naught. After all the King of Saudi Arabia supported puting a Muslin in the White House in 2008.

    • Chief jim says:

      Jimmy Peanut is why I got out! I went in the reseves until Ronasld Regean brought some respect back to the military!

  14. marineseabee says:

    ANY Congressman or Senator only has to serve ONE term in Congress to get A PENSION FOR LIFE. AND, THEIR PENSION IS AT FULL PAY, NOT THE HALF PAY WE GET AFTER 20 YEARS.

    • Research what you're saying!

    • You don't even get half pay after 20 years… all you get is half of your basic pay and that's it…

    • Djdudley says:

      You are SOOOOO RIGHT!!!!!!!

    • Really?!?!?
      No, not really. This is an email myth, that has ZERO basis in reality.

      Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, and think for yourself.

      All those emails you get that sound too crazy to be true… usually are.

      Try SNOPES.com

    • socom2mg says:

      dam right!..push the issue on cutting congress pay and the fact that they only serv one term to get a life time of BIG pay is bulls**t!…the extreme rich that have our nations leaders drooling over money, power, greed to the point they no longer see the reality of the people who make this country and the suffering. They will destroy the foundation of this country just by filling their penthouse up top with to much gold for themselves. They need to see the cracks in the foundation and start putting some gold down their to equal the weight and avoid a collapse

    • If you want 100% pension for life, why not run for office?

  15. come on now guys, we need to do something or we all will be broke. As for all you whinning about IED’S and fighting one on one, just dont happen, yes we all got shot at, but that what we signed up for, to defend. now with the war ending and we all stay state side and just train, then what ??? what will you complain about then, we do what we are paid to do. quit whinning. We have had it so much better then NAM. we are getting weaker……. to many whinning, give me give me, there are 1000′s and 1000′s who served and ask for nothing. are you here for your country or a free ride. march on and deal with it.

    • The fact that what we signed up for was in the contract and agreed upon by both parties. Bonuses, SGLI, Retirement, GI Bill, VEAP, and years of service all were signed contracts. The thousands that served had no choice, it was called the draft. The volunteer military are those that signed specific contracts to serve for specific periods of time with specific terms agreed upon by all parties. So stop with the nonchalant attitude and get with the program. Soldiers are willing to serve their country and their country should be willing to serve their soldiers. If you do nothing, expect nothing. If you stand for nothing you will ultimately receive nothing. It doesn't sound like you did combat, otherwise you would be thinking about those that have lost limbs, hearing, eyes, mental faculities and even their life. It is apparent your self centered remark comes across as ignorant and bland, for the familiies that no longer have a means to digest the cost of wars, but ask only for what their entitled to.

      • socom2mg says:

        Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
        Thomas Jefferson

    • I'm glad you think the war is ending. If you remember NAM then you know that we got our assetts chased out by a commeted enemy. We quit the war and you will see history is repeating itself. Besides no one signs up these days to go to war. they sign up for the benefits don't they? Didn't you?

    • This isn't just about our money brother; this is about our democracy and the socialistic decisions coming from our government. Yes, we did sign up and knew that bullsh** would ensue, but now that BS is going to affect not only us but our entire nation. The world is changing and people have become smarter. We are the greatest military in the world not only because of our tradition and history, but also for the benefits we receive for being in the military. It is not about the money or the benefits, but if you take it all away then there will be a great decline in our superiority. Lets face it though, the big picture here is the lack of democracy that our government is showing and the increase in socialism.

    • It's apparent you are not one of the soldier who have servied and are disable. I agree with others comments we need to get rid of those military members who are there for a free ride and have all the excusses about deploying.

    • It's all about broken promises, baucb. If a 20 year pension was never promised, there would be no whining. I don't buy the "suck it up" answer, because there is something bigger here at play. The gov't is trying to bail itself out of a fix (caused by their irresponsibility) by sticking it to us. This is enathama. This has nothing to do with whining. It is about sticking it to us to get them out of a fix. Let them stick it to themselves and I don't want to hear anymore about taking away the 20 year pension.

    • so why is it the 1st thing that takes a hit is the military membes and their pay. why dont some of our "elected officials" ever do something admirable and say you know what before we talk about our men and women in uniform going without……we should be the 1st casualties. I feel that gesture would speak volumes…..just my opinion.

    • lightscout says:

      I don't think it is about us whining. Its more about there are other ways to cut money. They just do it to the military because they know that will we take it because we are soldiers. Just because we will do our jobs regardless doesn't mean its right to screw us over every chance they get.

    • SCKODASH$T says:

      YOUR AN IDIOT, SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!! IT WAS A CONTRACT, HONOR IT OR GET OUT OF THE POLITICAL BIZ

    • I served 26 years and am now disabled as a direct result of my service in desert shield/desert storm. (ART) I cashed my TSP 10 years ago when I retired on OWCP. Im eligible for military retirement now and can collect when im 60 years old, four years from now and my disability annuity that I put my money into for 26 years, …better be in my annuity when Im ready to file for my disability retirement. (unconstitutional new world order strategy)
      35% TSP retirement is not going to keep anyone in the armed forces with all the sacrifices made with regard to family, injuries, travel, and a life commitment to the services. That's only 15% less than what is presently in affect. This is a financial reach of desperation NOT Innovation????
      These folks making these laws will not win this way. Create the slots needed for civilian's on dual status. THis will encourage more members and a more intergrated, intelligent and trusting force….
      he fact that what we signed up for was in the contract and agreed upon by both parties. Bonuses, SGLI, Retirement, GI Bill, VEAP, and years of service all were signed contracts

      The fact that what we signed up for was in the contract and agreed upon by both parties. Bonuses, SGLI, Retirement, GI Bill, VEAP, and years of service all were signed contracts….folks will file a class action law suite. and will win by the constitutional rights sent down by our forefathers and the God of our fathers.

  16. Guam USA says:

    Reality Bites, when you Voted For them, shame on them, when you voted for them again, shame on you…bottom line…our so called leaders are failing us…it is a disease and it is out of control. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the budget…the Government needs to crack down on overspending of supplies to all states, all armed forces, over paid Government employees, aiding to other countries other than its own, unessessary travel/ conferences/hotel accomodations in 5 star hotels…etc I could go on and on and on, but it starts from the ones you voted for…our leaders…shame on them…now we retirees have to suffer…shame on us;.

    • Dear Guam

      Hey you can't blame the people elected it is the role playing game that politics play. It doesn't make a difference that a party has a good plan that may work. The nature of the game is that if you are not a member of my party you are wrong even though you may be right. It is a constant power struggle in government. You really don't believe they care about what is best for the country do you? It's all about power and who can control what and right now it looks that Mr. President does not have any power to fix anything so it is not fair to blame any one man for all of our countries woes.

  17. fkidman217 says:

    What happens to those of us who are 100% disabled due to our service in the military or because of medication we were given beginning in the military & continued while on the TDRL List (Temporary Duty Retired List). The medications dosage and length of time it was used (5 years); 1) made me a test subject of sorts; 2) took away my chance to heal & come back into the Army (hence the "temporary duty"); 3) created a hole in my brain, which in effect changed the way my nervous system works… or better put doesn't work. That was 31 years. In 2000 I was issued a wheelchair because I could no longer walk very far without needing to sit or I would fall down. I must have a caregiver with most of the time because my memory fails me when it comes to taking meds, eating, sleeping, paying my bills including my mortgage… if my benefits are cut, 1st I loss my care giver, then I lose me or my home, I
    don't know in which order. And I have no other insurance to fall back on nor family to turn to either. It probably would not be so bad for a guy on the
    streets in a chair, but I'm a female vet, I don't think I'd fair quite as well. My Senator is the head of the VA Committee, I keep voting for her, & she keeps bragging about what she does for vets… I pray she's worth it!

    • Have you ever heard that song called : sleeping under the Boardwalk??

    • It brings tears to my eyes reading your story. I hope they have a separate plan for individuals like you. Or they will force you to stay in the VA hospital which we both know is extremely unpleasant… God Bless you for your service.

    • spiderbmg says:

      god bless you, hang in there. i was in the same boat. when i joined the AF i got paid $550 a month. tweenty one years later i retired with a pension worth tree times as much and they have to pay for the rest of my college education. not to mention i have only eight years left to retire from my pressent career and collect a secound pension plus my 401 and 457k. dont worry about all the crazyness congress throws at us. just make it to twennty get out and make them pay us for the rest of our lives and stop voting for people who only care about the wealthy dumb ass! what the hell did you think they were gonna do? bush pushed this country over a cliff in a hand basket and now our dumb asses are trying to give it right back to the greedy bastards who put us here in the first place. we kinda deserve it

    • I'm a MAMA Bear to some of the soldiers I have come to think of as my children, I'm no one important but I PROMISE YOU this I will NEVER STOP posting things on fb wich get reposted by many people!!! YOU ARE ONE of the ONES I"M FIGHTING FOR :) Please keep positive sweety yOU served us well and I PROMISE on MY E6 DAUGHTERS LIFE I will NEVER QUIT Fighting for every soldier I LOVE YOU ALL adn APPRECIATE YOUR SACRIFICE for my FREEDOM!!! GOD BLESS YOU DEAR and I WILL KEEP YOU IN MY PRAYERS :)

  18. WOW YOU GUYS BETTER HOPE WE DONT GO TO WAR WITH ALL THIS CRAP ON OUR MINDS B/C THEN NO ONE WILL WANT TO FIGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST SCREWING US OVER.

  19. old navy says:

    What a wonderful recruting tool. You know damn well Leon Penetta will sign of on it. He is a career politician with no military experience.

    • Jake (Ret USAF) says:

      Actually Old Navy, Mr Panetta did serve in the military. He was a captain in the US Army. That said, he is still a career politician and policy wonk. However, he does get credit for doing a great job as Director of the CIA. He had to win a lot of people over the hard way….via actions not words….and did. And he had zero intelligence experience. I hear your concerns but let's wait and see what unfolds.

  20. this is to Active Duty,a few comments below:

    I can't believe you even said that specialist/corporal.So you have 2 masters,and you're an E4.Well, let me see,you're probably in a MOS that hasn't even been deployed/mobilized.Well,I've been 20 years in the NAVY, been on 2 ships,deployed to IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN with the Marines and have been to college as well, but I still don't think it's a good plan.But you do,huh?So,the heck with eveyone else?Is that what you're saying?Or is it,because you've been in,you think you've done your part already?C'mon now soldier!

    • Active duty says:

      I mean, everyone is paying a price. You are paying yours, and I am paying mine. My MOS is 92F, only because I was not a citizen when I signed the contract. Well, my unit is always deployable. I may go to Afgan tomorrow, who knows. If your son is like me, would you let him join the military as a E4 with a MOS like this? In general, this country has already paid military personnels very well. You don't get so much welfare if you serve any other country than US. By the way, people have to pay for their choices. I am paying mine.

      • sorry but I have to agree with my fellow corpsman here. If you are so well educated you sould be, oh I don't know AN OFFICER! you think like them and you believe like them. I have paid my debt with blood, both of my own and others. I go to sleep at night with 19 faces eery night, I can't work on a patient until I push through the thought of sticking my fingers into a kids head to see if we could find any bullet fragments. I have PTSD and will for the rest of my life. I have a poor memory now because if this debt that I have paid. I believe in this country and that is why I signed the paper, but I also thought about what was going to happen to me when I finish this 20 years. They go through with this, I don't get to go to school, I don't get a job that I love, and I become someone that this country will toss into jail because I will do what I have to do to make sure that my family servies and one thing about combat, I DON'T HAVE A CONSIONS ANY MORE, so if it comes to you or me to servive, trust me, I will win.

        • Active duty says:

          I feel you, buddy. I do have an immature idea that this new military retirement plan should be combined with cutting congressmen' retirement welfare. And soldiers who have served for more than a certain amount of time, for example, 10 years, may be exempted from the new plan. But I am just nobody, an expendable junior enlisted soldier. United, we stand, why don't you guys unite and present this kind of proposal to someone who does matter?

    • I know many enlisted with bachelors and masters in the most deployable of all MOS…18 series

  21. conslrtroy says:

    We need to advertise more about the senators, and how they can get full retirement and Medical for only doing a four year term. If we don't have at least twenty people per position to choose from than there is something wrong. If we don't fire congress and the house of reps and get new blood in there we will soon see another country revolution or become a 3rd world country. Its our own fault, God made us great and now everyone want to get rid of them because of there rights. BS I am a veteran and fully believe In God We Trust and the rest can go to Hell.

    • Actually, Tom, you're not right about the political retirement vesting.

    • Active duty says:

      I agree with you. Senators' retirement plan is way too good.Not worth it. Many people can do their jobs. Ability to be a politician is not even a critical needed skill in this country presently.

    • just watch CSPAN. sometimes. watching our elected leaders sleeping and or a lot of vacant seats. makes you wonder why all of us veterans busted our butts to protect our country, while all of these idiots are voting on their yearly raises, while we can't even get a reasonable pay increase. as always the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting, well you know the rest.

  22. Corportae-style benefits??? How many corporations ask their people to go in harms way?

  23. Army Soldier says:

    Bye Mr. President. You really focused on serious issues. screwing military on retirement, fag right, and crapy medical plan (Obama care). wow. Change for sure. Shame on you. I hope you don't get elected.

    • Alfred Hestle says:

      It is your Congress that make laws not the President. He only sign or veto them. It is wall street that want to gamble you future retirement. I would like to see Congress change their retirement.

    • Get a clue. This is your Republican House of Representatives who are proposing this with all their spending cuts.

    • Thank the Republicans and Tea Party for this idea.

    • Funny how he wants us to pay our own medical and now tries to cut our retirement. HE should put his life on the line for our country then try to cut his medical and retirement and see ho he ACTS. Great comment Army soldier.

      MSG U.S.ARMY

      • Wake up. This isn't Obama's doing. This thing was discussed in 2008, 2010, and 2011 by a panel at the Pentagon… by people in the military. Not Obama. DoD cuts were asked for (and need to happen); it was the DoD itself that determined that "if we're going to cut spending, we have to go where the money is." That was Admiral Mullen, by the way, NOT Obama.

    • Some people should really take a history class, it is congress coming up with all these new ideas, I think the working class should become there own party we are getting screwed from both parties!

  24. Dennis bryon says:

    At 14 years I will get out right away. This is none sense, good luck on finding experience in the battlefield specially if they have been deployed more than four times. Leave the military pay alone, all we do us follow orders protect our country in silence.

  25. floridabuckeye says:

    i was under the TSP for 16 years with the post office.it is a good plan but not if this is what you plan on living on in retirement. yes i put in 10% as soon as eligible plus borrowed and paid back a loan. i still wound up with only $125,000. not a great amount if that's all you have until social security kicks in, if ever.

    • well they want to mess with retirement pay for us ,they need to pay the military civilian pay so they can contribute ,and they think its not right i will collect for 60 years hell i dont think many of of are going to live for 98 tears
      18 at induction 20 years or more 60 years collecting , thats 98 years old we who retire from the military are lucky to see 75 so whos blowing smoke up our asses

    • What social security, there is not going to be anything left. Social security accounts for most of the debt, the military is a small part compared to what we spend for social security, medicare and medicaid. Congress knows older people vote more and people don't care about the military as much anymore. Oh, how I love moving ever 3 years to another apartment, being away from family, and getting the shity end of the stick. Welcome to the military.

  26. SCPO RET and glad says:

    Every Veterans Day and Memorial Day we hear all the lip service from our politicians how much is owed to our military. Then crap like this is proposed.
    The politicians retirement benefits are a slap in the face to us as they continue to ask the military to give up more and more.

    • HMCS RET says:

      Right on! Also SCPO RET. The first termers in Congress that have never served a day on active duty should have to go without pay for their first term and if "lucky enough" to be re-elected then receive a salary. But, they shouldn't be eligible for any benefits until they serve as we have done!

    • MSG Mark says:

      I've been in the Army for 23 years and I have a retirment date of 1 July 2012, I agree with you the politicians love what the military do for this country but will cut a military members benefits in a second.

  27. Stuart H says:

    I have 14 years in and am too old to start over (42). I had planned on retiring at age 53-54. Now I could not afford to retire until MRD. Even then, I will have to be the next greeter at Wal Mart to get by. This is a great "Thank You" for multiple deployments and years away from my family. This government has no concept of sacrifice or the real world we live in.

    • As of today, I will never talk to any young people about service to their country, Some of those that are active now is because I talked to them they are at 17+ years, They have been wounded, numerous tours, now they are being told it was all a lie.

  28. Retired Navy Chief says:

    According to their website, The Defense Business Board is composed of 21 members. Two of those members do not have a bio listed, 13 have bio's which indicate they have never served in the military, 5 have served but did not retire, and only one is a retireee from the Armed Forces.
    So, the recommendations of this primarily civilian panel, most of whom were careful never to put themselves in harms way, are being used to affect the lives of men and women now serving. Another load of bureaucratic BS from the politically correct crowd. Unfortunately, the Chariman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff seems to be in the knee pad wearing crowd too, so no help can be expected from that quarter. I hope enough members contact their Congressman and Senators to force this Administration to put together a balanced panel of those who have served and those who are now serving to make recommendations which would actually have the welfare of the average service member at heart.

  29. last time i looked every cop and fire fighter goes in harms way every day. its not like a firemen wants paid and then he wants paid agian to go inn a burning house. come on now do what your paid to do, if not step aside other will take ur spot. your not the only hero cause you served, we all did.

    • Have you walked through the valley or death? You dare compare what a fireman or a police officer do to combat. You are the problem.

      • whiner, you didnt go through all what you want us to belive…. come on….. this is not NAM

        • @ baucb do you really believe people are exagerating about the engagements that they were in?what war is ending?

    • harosand says:

      You dare compare what a fireman or a police officer do to what a service member in combat live?.Let us not be a damn idiot everyday,because just like the Senators and Congressmen/Woman in Washington,DC you are the problem. Retired Navy CPO.

      • I have to agree with you Chief. The sad part is that I have one year on my Oldest brother who is a cop in Utah. I make about 1000 more then him. He doesn't have a retirement anymore cause the state screwed all the cops in Salt Lake Valley. I give money to my family so they can make it through life. Know that if you or any other service member who has been in conflict ever needs help, maybe not money but help non the less, I will be there for them. The one thing that I can trust are my brothers and sister that I fight along side.

    • Joeschmoe says:

      Most police and fire fighters get 50% retirement like the military.
      P.S. you have poor spelling and grammer.

    • The last time I talked with one of my local police officers, we discussed the benefits of our repective jobs, it seems that a city cop makes a good bit more than a soldier in lower enlisted to mid grade NCO pay. When I enlisted in 1976, I was sold the bill of goods that "the low pay going in would be offset by the great retirment on the back side", now the politicans have the "service at low pay" days behind us, so they can now safely yank the rug out and save money on both ends.

    • The firefighters you mentioned do indeed face dangers.

      But I wonder which is more hazardous?

      Going into a burning building where you have at least a partial knowledge of the floor plan and a knowledge of the actions of the fire, some predictability as to how the fire affects the structure, and what the fire will do?

      Or

      Walking down a trail or into a town where the enemy may or may not have booby traps, and if you survive the traps, you face a thinking, unpredictible, human being on the other end of the rifle, constantly thinking new ways to deprive you of your life?

      I'm beleiving that the fire is a safer bet.

    • MSgt Cruz says:

      I don't remember any firefighter or cop being asked to not see their family for years, or months at a time or work almost every holiday and weekends…You don't know anything about what we servicemen sacrifice…

    • Are you kidding me!!! I do my job and have for the last 10 yrs and 3 deployments not including the one im currently on! I didn't ask for anything more than the pay I receive and the retirement plan that was in effect the day I enlisted!!!!

    • O.K, I have served for my country for some dumb reason because we serve for a bunch of idiots that shouldnt be a part of this world. I have done both jobs as a service member and served in combat as well as being a volunteer fire fighter. I really have to say that I would rather be in a burning house due to it is SAFER, I can come right back home to my family when it is over, I can quit at anytime especially when I VOLUNTEERED for it without pay, and how many firefighters really go to a burning house everyday???

      • Another thing is lets take a look at the death toll between firefighters and service members. Which is higher? Now lets talk about combat. Dont know where you are, dont get to quit when you want, don't get to go home, follow orders from the DUMB people in this world and have no say so but we still manage to get the job done, eat crap for food and enjoy it because thats all we get, run around in 140 degree heat while having BULLETS slung at our head or MISSILES dropped at your feet.

        • Now tell me how we compare the jobs to one another. I am still serving for our country and my family. I do it with out complaining until our country that I am serving for starts taking the things away from us as well as people who are trying to compare our jobs together but really they choose a less dangerous job field becuase (1) they are to scared to go to combat but still want to try to be recognized in this country or (2) they just cant be what it takes to be a service member. Lets step it up a notch.

          • Lets serve in comabt to serve what our country wants and to remember the fallen, be a volunteer firefighter that protects the people in our community and go to college to earn thier degree in criminal justice to serve in the law enforcement once I retire. I am conducting this all at one time and still maintain my family with the little time I get with them. And what will I get in the end? Not a damn thing that I worked for to be the person that I wanted my children to look up and follow after. The only thing I worked for is a big screw you, thanks for serving and have a nice day. I bet your just a fat peice of s*** that is just sitting on you couch eating a donut and drinking a beer while I am dodging bullets for you to be with your family. Dont make any more stupid comments about what we deserve and compare your job to what I do on a daily routine.

          • But I do have respect for police officers and firefighters and what they do.

          • SSG Harris says:

            Sir, you have hit the nail on the head…I hope he understands all that we have done numerous times while he does eat cheetos and reads about us in the paper, thank you for your service is what he should be saying and not stuff like we quit whinning, even police officers go on strike (which we cannot do or be punished). He should be lucky that we do what we do because we can, unlike him.

    • tuff huff says:

      That is B.S.!!!! So when does a firefighter or cops enlistment end? You can quit those jobs anytime you feel like it, and you also seem to forget that the military owns YOU….

    • Retied Air Force says:

      Apples to Oranges…seriously! From another Air Force Retiree, they should be ashamed of themselves for even going down this road!

  30. Shame shame shame!!! Someone else is trying to be recognized for being a damn idiot!! Let's go for it, do away with the 20 year retirement, we have no draft, very little leadership in Washington and issue each and every GI a gallon of vaseline monthly for the screwings they're about to undertake. Meanwhile, let's spend some more money buying military aircraft, arms etc. that's produced by over-paid union workers and hope the senators, congressman will be able to find someone to operate them!! Sure seems to me that we're moving backwards………..retired Navy CPO.

  31. Michael says:

    Listen to what everyone is saying powers to be, you are saying do as I say not as I do, you want to get all the money, and those who serve this country get nothing, amazing how selfish you sound, like many here I concur, who ever propose this obvisously did not serve any time in, just sitting back on their a@# making rules, and exspecting the people who pay the price, and sacirfice their family time, for them to walk around, and do what they do, while we are still not getting what is promised, you have the best insureramce policies, and your families are being taken care of, while mot of us retirees are struggling to make ends meet. I sumit to you thast unless you have really struggle in or out to take care of your family, you will never know what any of us are going through.

  32. A Soldier that spends 20 years has actually put in 40 years compared to his Gov"t or Cilvilan counterparts. Ihave always believed that it would come to this, Ter down the defense of this great nation, the enemy will walk in and take over. This is phase III, Just remember your oath of who we were defending aganist.

  33. G Jackson says:

    I have to agree with most of the postings I've read so far…this idea stinks, especially the fact that current servicemembers are not being grandfathered. This is so typical of what happens to the armed forces during peace time or right after a war, but not during so many world-wide conflicts. If this "retirement" system goes into effect, look out for very sluggish recruiting numbers…might have to start using the draft again! Come on congressmen, man up and make better cuts to the budget…don't take it out on the armed forces of this country. Remember who gave you the freedom to serve as a congressman and make these stupid decisions.

  34. Richard Knapp says:

    In that case, the politicians should not get a retirement after 1 term. That includes the president. Cut the politicians salary in half and that would solve most of the monetary problems.

  35. haanohana says:

    I really hope that Congress does not let this go any farther. I have served my country to the best of my ability and now too close to retirement to lose it. My family and I have been separated for many long and arduous deployments. I have missed the birth of three of my four children, birthdays, countless holidays and moments that a normal father would never miss or be asked to miss. It is true that I am a patriot and serve with pride, honor, courage and commitment, but I know that my family and I disserve the retirement we were promised throughout my career thus far. I know that most people will never know the things we endure daily or even be able to conceive being away from their family and loved ones for the time we who serve do, or even deal with the stress, hardships and personal danger we do. Please do not let this type of added stress happen; we have more than enough to deal with out here without the BS; I want to make it home to my family and still be able to retire!

  36. Warrior says:

    WHY DON'T WE GO FOR IT ALL AND MAKE OUR KIDS SERVE FOR TWO YEARS AFTER HIGH SCHOOL.

  37. Hastings 73 says:

    I blame this on the Tea Party. They are giving the GOP and Dems no wriggle room for negotiations and now both sides are looking for easy kills in budget savings. Since most Americans never served, they don't understand our unique challenges and multiple deployments. Vote with our feet and 10 years from now we will have a hollow force. Then Joe America will wake up to a draft notice.

    • Really? The Tea Party? We only have two parties in our government, the Tea Party isn't one of them. Not giving the Dems wiggle room? The Dems don't care what the "Radical Tea Party" says or does.

  38. An American says:

    They are going for the military first to see how the people react. Next they are going for the Social Security.

    • Active duty says:

      social security needs to be reformed too. The reason is simple, we cannot afford it anymore. The situation in European countries is even worse.

  39. Retired says:

    Our elected leaders are no longer "serving the people". They've become "designers and tailors". They come up with plans to replace their already deep pockets for deeper ones and adding silver linings for more $$$$$$$ by taking them from the citizens of this great nation that we all defended with our lives and the sacrifices of our families. I say the people should have their own overhauling by starting with the politicians who proposed this plan.

  40. Terry Lewis says:

    This plan is a disgrace, Who ever thought this up needs to get his or her metal evaluation, I hope there our no serious conflicts on the horizon, As the draft well diffidently have to come into place, As the all voluntarily force and career military well no longer be a part of military force, Have the Senator and Congressmen give up their pension plan after there four or six years of service, Heck,y they can not even get their own jobs done, that they were elected to do, The way its going now we are going to be a third world nation and and a third world military. Retired Army 23 years

  41. Planodude says:

    A much better plan would be to permit those with 10 years active
    eserve duty, or more, to retire. Payment based upon 2.5% of highest base pay times number of years. Payment, plus benefits, would begin at age 58. Eliminate all RIFs for those with less than 10 years active
    eserve duty. This would dramatically lower the costs of funding the retirement program, and it would correct the injustices of the present RIF programs.

  42. MarinePhrogDrvr says:

    In at age18-22 and out at age 38-42 with 50% pay and lifetime benefits is fiscally unsustainable… Okay I get it.

    Most of us do understand this concept and understand that we'll have to take some form of "haircut". However, this proposal is beyond drastic. It may be more likely and more palatable to move Active Duty in stages to the same type of retirement that Reservists have… basically a delay of benefits to age 60 (I'd rather see 55).

    I can't speak for all but we're willing to step up to the plate… PROVIDED WE GET TO SEE EVERYONE ELSE'S HAIRCUT FIRST! Congress, Federal Appointees, Other Govt Workers, etc.

  43. marty conner says:

    I ENLISTED IN THE NAVY IN 1954, HAD A VERY GOOD CAREER & ENJOYED MY VARIOUS DUTIES, FROM E2 – E7, made two 9 mos. cruise to tonkin gulf, we did w/out a lot to serve our country in a war that we could not win, where was all these people who are trying to cut our bennies? i retired in 1976, w/full benefits, i thought!!!

  44. John Brown says:

    Whoever in DOD thought this idea up should be taken out and shot immediately. Call me and I will provide the bullets FREE. I served 30 years and my retirement was EARNED with blood, sweat and tears.

  45. Franush says:

    The first retirement system that needs to be overhauled is the one that applies to all members of congress. One term and they are set for life with full pay retirement and benefits and automatic cost of living increases. They need to serve a minimum of twenty years for half pay or get SS at 65 like the rest of the population. They are elected to serve us, the American people, not for the American people to SERVE them.

  46. DrDanH, COL (ret) says:

    Anyone who believes that a 401K is a viable retirement system, needs to go back to school (grade school, high school, post-graduate school). I served from private through colonel (infantry, field artillery, medical service corps). We are the only democratic country that has replaced viable retirement systems with 401Ks. Most people have lost 30% – 50% of their 401K's over the past 5 years. They are not stupid people. I have 2 401Ks and have lost only 10% because of the matching, and I still believe they are nearly worthless as a primary retirement system. They are designed to provide huge cash flows & great looking balance sheets to business (and huge tax write-offs). Since retirement, I've been a VP of 3 different corporations (including vesting in one of the largest DoD contractors). I've also been an SES'er (competitive political appointment). My point only being I know what I'm talking about. Oh by the way, I'm also vested in a German retirement (real system) having worked there as a teacher during a break in service. My wife is Germany. Our Country's greatest asset is our people. Their jobs, retirement plans, and healthcare have been compromised by politicians and large business for the past 2 decades. The dollar is worth next to nothing in purchasing power compared to other countries. China owns a significant part of our debt & therefore cannot be brought under any type of control in terms of the way their people are treated (regardless of the DC rhetoric). So folks, get educated about a lot of things that are affecting each of us daily and in the future. Then get active in local politics, join groups that take constructive actions, write your politicians, stop supporting do nothing politicians, get off your TV couches and get active. Stop crying the blues and do something constructive (that also means legal) to get this wonderful country back on track. dr dan

  47. I retired in 2007, praise God that I got out before you took away the pot of GOLD at the end of the rianbow.

    • Garry D. Merritt says:

      I retired in 2004…It helps, but it's most definitely NOT a pot of gold. If I started working in the career I'm in 20 years prior to that, I'd be making 3-4 times what I'm making now, in a much higher position.

  48. macqueenr says:

    We could do it the way the UK does. Start at 16 and Retire at 55 at full pay. No other benefits. You get your money, but they take your 1250 (ID card) and you have no other benefits. Of course they do have national health. The big difference is they also have trade bands while serving. For example, all E-6s don't receive the same pay – It depends on job complexity.

  49. This is very ridiculous, in comparison to congress pension and pay, plus their retirement, our money is equal to cents! I would laugh watching these people trying to live of of, say10- 40k/year, I agree we need to have these people understand because of the Military and our men and women we can go about our lives, and be treated as it’s so. It’s not that we are asking more, we are asking what was promised. I am irate, I cannot believe they would do this to us, leave us like this for “Americas debts” What else are they willing to do, what other issues of the Government must we “help fix” out of our own pockets, benefits and retirement? There are other routes to take, more respectable routes to take….. God I hope this does not go thru
    God bless you all

  50. And need to always be treated as it is so, I meant

  51. A. White says:

    I would like to vote the Congress, the Senate & all officials the same retirement plan….along with a hefty pay cut and loss of perks. It's so easy to make these cuts when you are financially unaffected. In fact someone better read this bill…they are probably giving themselves yet another pay raise.

  52. Well, I guess the next thing will be "military personnel don't deserve medial care" or "let's put the military in the Obama Health Care Plan" and fine them when the don't have insurance.

  53. GWButlerUSNRet says:

    Why is it that they always cut social security, medicare, and military. The people who have worked all their lives and have served in some branch of tthe military. For all you military retirees who put your life on the line for years out of your life, Take a look at what the scumbags are offering our military today. Recommendations to let your Senatrs and Representativs know how you feell about the plan. My sentiments toward cutting costs are to cut the salaries of our Congressmen, freezze their pay, and put themselves on the same retirement plan. Stop all the pork-belly project in their home states. Then take away the right for them to give themselves pay increases. Give their constituents the authority to give them a raise or NOT.
    From a Disgruntled Retiree and His Spouse

  54. This doesn't make sense… One of the reasons we stay in for 20 years or more is because of the current retirement benefits. If this plan was in place when I joined I would have got out at my 10-14 year mark when I was able to take advantage of the education and more competitive for civilian jobs at a younger age. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the US Military the most premier fighting force on the planet. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference. Serving in the military is not an easy task, although one that I do with pride and would do again if asked and yes I chose this profession. I drag my family from duty station to duty station every 3 years spending approx $2000 of my own money each time because the military doesn't cover everything! I do this because I love my job and at 20 years of service I will have a decent pension. BTW, it will only be $2000 a month after taxes (and I've been promoted 11 times)… so it's still not the greatest, but not bad for a 38 year old grumpy dude with long term injuries due to my service. This makes me mad!!! I guess I should run for office now, I know they wont touch those benefits!

  55. Why is my post getting deleted? I'm not writing anything bad!

  56. This doesn't make sense… One of the reasons we stay in for 20 years or more is because of the current retirement benefits. If this plan was in place when I joined I would have got out at my 10-14 year mark when I was able to take advantage of the education and more competitive for civilian jobs at a younger age.

  57. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the US Military the most premier fighting force on the planet. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference. Serving in the military is not an easy task, although one that I do with pride and would do again if asked and yes I chose this profession. I drag my family from duty station to duty station every 3 years spending approx $2000 of my own money each time because the military doesn't cover everything!

  58. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the US Military the most premier fighting force on the planet. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference.

  59. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the Military the most premier fighting force on the planet. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference.

  60. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the US Military the most premier fighting force on the planet. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a 401K to make a difference?

  61. 401K is 50/50 like the rest of wall street, they still borrow and use your money and if stock market crashes so does the 401Ks that is why I moved my 401K into cash reserve that way they cannot touch it even though I do not make much anymore but at least it will be there. If I knew then what I know now would have never signed up for TSP program, members are always caught in the cross fire of politicos.
    Problem, reaction, and solution.

  62. Serving in the military is not an easy task, although one that I do with pride and would do again if asked and yes I chose this profession. I drag my family from duty station to duty station every 3 years spending approx $2000 of my own money each time because the military doesn't cover everything! I do this because I love my job and at 20 years of service I will have a decent pension. BTW, it will only be $2000 a month after taxes (and I've been promoted 11 times)… so it's still not the greatest, but not bad for a 38 year old grumpy dude with long term injuries due to my service. This makes me mad!!! I guess I should run for office now, I know they wont touch those benefits!

  63. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the military the most premier force on the planet. How do they expect a young service member to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference.

  64. The military will not be able to retain the experience and knowledge to help keep the US Military the most premier fighting force on the planet.

  65. How do they expect a young E4 to provide for their family (given the current pay scale) and pull out enough money monthly to contribute to a "401K" to make a difference for retirement?

  66. A young service member will not be able to put enough money into a "401K" to make a difference for retirement… we do not make enough!

  67. Tony Lee Merriwether says:

    The Last job to pay a pension at 20yrs. I will bet that those people in congress vote themselves a raise. They are finally throwing us under the bus. I pray for my comrades in arms. I retire feb2011 26 yrs 24 days of active duty honorable service, no redux and my health somewhat in tact. I saw this day coming. Now non drployable Soldiers will be separated. QMP board in full swing. The crunch is on even if you volunteer to serve your country and put your life on the line. Your TSP will be in the hands of Wall Street. OMG!!! I will be praying for my buddies who have less than 18yrs 6 months.

  68. I would not have been able to place enough money into a "401K" when I was a young member to make a difference for retirement so how do they expect to get young kids who care to serve the country and stay?

  69. we do not make enough money to contribute to our retirement and take care of our family!

  70. larry kroneman says:

    It seems people are acting like this issue has never come up before. If fact it was a hot topic as far back as 1969, The Stars and strips spent a lot of space on comparison of several nations from Canada and other western powers. The point isl the US was the one that was the MOST liberal of any nation. and now the cow has run out of milk deal with it

  71. Retired E-7 says:

    Just perfect. Now you get to pay into a fund that will pay you what you put in plus interest earned or minus any stock losses ove rhthe years managed by a branch of the federal government. Forget TSP. This is a mandatory contribution program just like Social Security. When down the road a surplus of funds is accrued, you elected officials will raid the funds just like they did SS, then call it an entitlement program and withhold payments to support other spending that they consider necessary. This is a big rip off in the making.

  72. I spent my time and don’t receive any of my retirement. Because I have a service connected disability and they deduct my VA compensation from my retirement. So $2000 retirement is offset by $2200 VA comp. Bet you congressmen don’t have to worry about that. They can collect 75% of their current pay after 4 years in office. Now I’m stuck collecting jack squat. I wonder if this new 401K would still fall under the same VA rules?

  73. Leave the military alone especially the retirees they served their country with endless sacrifice and protecting your freedom, they earned their benefits. Cut all those unnecessary spending in washington and cut the congress and senators entitlements, they are not paying social security and yet they are getting a full benefits? HELLO, DO YOU THINK ITS FAIR W/ THE MILITARY? There's other ways they can find the cut, the aid that they're giving to other countries, private jets ect. Military and retirees deserve better than this. Leave us alone.

  74. The Truth Merchant says:

    Well it seems like the military are the most hated in this debt crisis which we didn't created. This have been going around for sometime now and don't be surprise if it is sign into law!!! Because whatever the Republicans, want they get. They want grandma's Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare is going to get CHOPPED!! Mark my word……….God help us!

  75. Harold Dobbs says:

    Isn't this plan similar to the one "W" proposed for Social Security? Nobody seemed to like that one, so why do these baffoons think this will go down any better?

  76. let's ask the entire white staff, everyone in congress, and all the flunkies to do the same cut their retirement and ask them to take paycut of 50% and see what they say. then ask them to go in arms way or even uproot thier family every2 or 3yrs

  77. My son just joined and is proudly serving America in the U.S. Army. I am a retired Senior NCO and my husband is too so our son is following in our footsteps. This is a shame. He is looking forward to soldiering hard and retiring also. I don't understand why our military gets so little and our leaders in office get so much. We are the ones who have sacrificed for the freedoms every American enjoys and get overlooked in the process. It is a disgrace!

  78. Looks like the draft will be back. Yes all those serving in congress should have their retired benifits readjusted and limited to one 6 year term that way we would get politicians that truly want to serve.

  79. ADC Fury USNR Ret says:

    I saw this Coming yrs ago ! When they did away with the Draft ! They did 2 yrs and out they went ,Pay was low E 5 ,$180.00 a month /2to 4 ,yrs (1950s ) They down sized the Force ,500+ ships ,Lots of land base stations ,to what it is today ,Draft gone ,Higher pay ,combined Rates ,Less people ,Reserves called in, to fill the Ranks, of lost people and Assets. for up to 2 yrs (Law) Cant call up Draftees,that were trained ,There are none ! Reserves (normally used for the Big Bangs ) have been used up (time wise) So!, to get New Blood in, and trained ,Mess with the retirement!! If you get out early ,You can still be called up in a Big Bang War ,Your Service is NEVER OVER. They Called up retired GMMs to teach the 16 inch guns at 73and 74. Its a Numbers Game . Yes! they will Put it up to 60 . If they have their way !??? Reserve People Normally live 2 yrs longer than Active Duty ,So you will collect less in the long Run ! Look it up! Its true !I spent 41 yrs in the Navy ,4 yrs Active ,37 Reserve ,retired on Contract at 60Yrs Old ,now 73

  80. Disgusted says:

    Yup that's where it all begins with congress' pay and benefits!! I am heart broken at the idea of all this… After supporting my husband and the military for almost two decades! Wo much for our life plans!

  81. Disgusted says:

    Oops! * so

  82. Robertr retired says:

    I don' know how they they congress and the president can hope to maintain a all volentary force with this B.S. they should expect mass exits from all military! Then who will fight there wars them I Think not and they think they should stick ther noses in everyones bussiness. let them get armed and fight because noone else will . let them earn there money.Most would run they are a bunch of over paid whooses if there was a draft they would all run for the hills

  83. Forget the volunteer military!!!

  84. Anotherway to cut money is not allow any officer general or above to take any other job with federal government see last wo sec.of defence and chief of staffs Get rid of most upper officers they are truly not needed. because the forces are begoing to be a lot smaller. Much too thin to fight and fly the was that they are so happy to get us into trying to be the big bully. We are not ! I see civil war ciming here if things are not change remember the Greeks and Romans and there empires were vast . Vote all out off office even the new it's truly time for change when one percent have 80 percent of the wealth and don't pay taxes or care about only making money off everyone else cut the senators staff how many peope do you need to tell them how good they are most are perverts anyway!

  85. I am not a civilian. I execute policies and live by laws voted by my fellow citizens. If this is the will of the people I would choose not to serve. However, I am not a civilian and do not have that option. I live under a contract. Most civilians can leave their job tomorrow if they find a better one, don't like their boss, or simply for any reason they choose. I would go to jail. In other words why should my pension reflect that of a civilian?

    Senior Military leadership is build from within. We do not "hire" people into flag positions. We need to encourage people to serve 20 years.

    My pension affords me the opportunity to attend the Christmas dinners and birthday parties I sacrificed for 20 years. I appreciate those opportunities afforded by my country.

  86. I'm active duty, and I think most of you condemning this change are overreacting. Additionally, it's incredibly selfish to believe the system does not need to change. Currently, if you choose to leave active duty with less than 20 years, you get nothing. With this new system, you get something. We all know that after 12-14 years, few people get out. In this proposal, those folks who are unhappy or are ready to make the jump to the civilian world can do it and have something in their TSP. Pensions are very expensive, and we are in a major financial crisis…no one wants their Tricare copayments to go up either, but that is another story. What we have now is not sustainable.

    • Betrayed... says:

      Good luck selling that to prospective recruits. I for one will not encourage anyone to serve in a thankless system. You probably gather with the rest of the masses and pretend to appreciate the military on holidays, but in the end you are just another pig getting fat on the sacrifice of soldiers.

  87. As an active member, who is proud to serve, I feel like I would be cheated and robbed of such a major reason that influenced my goal in serving 20 years. I have only a hand full of years left and this would really be a stab in the back to all men and women who have sacrificed so much. We as citizens and citizen solders must not be afraid to fight for our cause, we must contact or our political representatives and express our views. Support our Veteran organizations so they can express our concerns and anger. I hope that this article does not become a reality.

  88. Don McCoy says:

    Don't blame this on the President. This has rerpublican written all over it. Me I have a plan. If washington can't get it together. I am voting out every public official on every ballot I am able to vote in. Give someone else a chance. I have served 24 pluc years.

    QMC(SW/AW) USN (rit)

  89. Prisoners get Treated Better than the Military!!!!

  90. “Pay­ing the mil­i­tary and their fam­i­lies for 60 years to serve for only 20 years”

    How did these bean counters come up with the 60 year figure? If a young person of 18 enlists and stays 20 years they will be 38 when they retire. But, for them to get retired pay for an additional 60 years that would make them 98 years old. The average lifespan is only 75 years. Seems to me they are about 23 years long on their 60 year estimate.

  91. They are selling this Bill of Goods as a viable system that would put soldiers on par with other government employees…, well I say good deal start paying a new enlisted soldier the same salary as a 1st term Congressman then let the PV1 donate out of that salary into the thrift savings plan, when a SSG starts taking home $200,000.00 in base pay they will be able to save for a decent retirement. Otherwise keep the current system. The Democrats are once again working hard at balancing the budget on the backs of soldiers while at the same time they are working hard to shelter welfare recipients from any cuts.

  92. Its to be be expected – Our Socialist president wants to purge the military – Bohica !! God help our Country. Let Congress and the Senate Go on the same program.

  93. I don't believe that a president can only serve 4 to 8 years and get paid the rest of there lives, but a service member that pretty much puts thier lives on hold for 20 years can't get what they deserve in the end. be prepared for the draft to come back because no one is going to be willing join the military after all of this comes into effect.

    • GettingOutTech says:

      Amen brother. This is disgraceful. Good luck keeping Techs in the military with this plan. They already have horrible retention numbers in these career fields. So now they will still pay over 100K to train/house/feed/treat soldiers (all branches), and pay them money when they leave after 3 or 4 years, and still lose them to a civilian industry that pays them 3 to 5 times what they make in the military. Talk about a waste of money. Spending cuts my ass. This is just retarded and a slap in the face to those of us who sacrifice our lives for 20+ years. When they go after the rest of the population, i wonder who they will ask to protect them from the American people? The same military who they have no problem stabbing in the back.
      I remember when I was young and proud of our system of gov't.

  94. Active duty says:

    How about present a combined bill in congress? Cutting military personnel's retirement welfare plan should be combined with cutting congressmen' retirement welfare plan. From my point of view, this would be a fair play. I'll vote for it if it comes true.

  95. When I was drafted into the armforces in 69 and went to vetnam, I and many other service member, probably mostly retired or expired now were promised many things, to include free medical and dental care, cola increases, and a retirement for giving our country between 20 to 36 years of dedicated service. Now a days were lucky to find a doctor who accepts TriCare. The proposed change to the military retirement plan is just another broken promise to service members. We need to create a professional fighting force, pay them three times more then what a soldier, sailor, or airman now receives, and offer them no benefits.

  96. . This new proposed plan will have a significant impact on the military and its ability to retain personnel and will be a slap on the face to our service member when rewarding them with ret. Let also remember that the government will have to payout money each month to cover matching contributions, which will have an immediate impact on the budget each year, rather than the promissory note of a pension after 20 years of service. In addition, where is the saving when you think of the 85% of service members that get out prior to ret, the government will have to have those moneys covered at ret and don't forget the monthly contributions being paid. I do not see the savings in the long run and I only see military personnel ret with joke of a retirement. Like I said were not banker. I do not believe it would be fair if they improved our retirement and gave us what congress men get, now that would be great.

  97. SGM (Ret) says:

    Proponents said the plan would allow more flexibility for service members, who could decide how they want to invest their retirement savings, Well the truth is we don't know a thing about investment we are not banker we are Soldiers and Sailors who serve our country not corporate banker. This idea of fairness is crazy, the main reason for most of us staying till ret is that we love our job and look forward to that security and promise the government made when we joined, for one they said they would provide free medical and that is all bull now and now the say this new plan will be more fair. Well I say bull, this again cut into our benefits now our young troops fighting for this country will have to pay for their retirement and then to say it will be a 401k well that is a joke. How many American have lost their life saving? This is just another great Id for saving money and not keeping their promise. This new proposed plan will have a significant impact on the military and its ability to retain personnel and will be slaps on the face to our service member when rewarding them with ret.

  98. It's about time we all woke up to what this WhiteHhouse administration is all about. You can complain here all you want but I truely believe there is a bigger plan. Those that are controlling the strings don't give a rats behind about you or anyone else. Prepare yourselves financially, keep oyur faith and hold on to the values this country was built upon. This isn't going to be easy and certainly don't put all your eggs into the Government basket. Remember we are all in this together until we reduce Gov spending, re-elect a new President and Congress. I believe we are headed for disaster and there is nothing we (The powerless) can to to stop this.

  99. Ret, USAR Maj.

    Again trying to mess with our soldiers retirement pay. I am sure that the ones who came up with this brilliant idea must have done so after several drnks and had never served evn in the Boys Scouts. I guess that after drinks and parties, this must have sounded much better than it actually is.How about leaving those grand master minds of Washington who are sitting behind their desks go fight the nations problems overseas for a change. Let them risk their lives and leave their families behind for months at a time without knowing if they will ever see them again. Then upon return of those who make it back just tell them:"Here, take this spare change and thank you for trusting your good old government SCREWING you AGAIN". How come don't they First cut back on their own salary and benefits? I am certain that the possible miserable threats against their lives, if any at all because them stepping on someone elses foot that got fed up of it, are no match to what our soldiers proudly go through in the fight of justice and freedom of our great nation. Where is the same type of service from our elected government officials?

  100. Joe Dokes says:

    The best part is that the Congress can steal all the money out out of the plan just as they have with social security..the joke with the latter is that they called it a "trust" fund.

  101. SFCSWJ USA Retired says:

    Yes I say outsource the federal government out to mexico . Wow think of the money we could save. Some one voted these leaders in so vote them out. The problem is not the Military retirement coasting so much as it is the Federal Government on the HILL coast out of control. There are so many places to cut spending 1.Freeze pay for 10 years to senate,house,congress,President. No more free flights to all. No more body guards to any past persident . No free medical,Dental,Bankink for life for just 4 year turm. Deleate all loop holes through tax breaks for the top 2%. Change all regulations for Social security If you dont pay in you cant draw. Civilservice is already beeing addressed that will save Billions. I could go on but no one is listening.

  102. James Burke says:

    BLUF: Our country outspends the next ten countries in Defense. Defense is the leading element of the Federal Budget, and it was designed this way on purpose. Military personnel would cause a huge tip on the economy if they were in the civilian workforce. Know any CEOs making 4Star Salary? or any Computer Programmers out of college making what a Private earns lately? Yet the Generals and Privates have more responsibility on their toilet paper than their civilian counterparts could dream about. Yet, we go to the easiest fodder to stiff first. Why? Can anyone on Active Duty promote a cause for anyone’s campaign? No, only as a civilian attired private citizen…who is not protected by the US Constitution, rather he/she is governed by the UCMJ. Get real. Compare apples and apples here. The military are pawns in the bigger picture despite our overwhelming scopes of responsibility. It is an illusion that we actually count except to the few true patriots who know the words to the National Athem, march in Memorial Day and D Day (like) parades…who were in a military that pulled itself out of despair to fight. They fought to protect our shores from submarines and bombers before radar and jamming protection and sonar. We are totally out of sync, and now we are fighting ourselves. Reinstitute the Draft. Make every swinging richard participate, remove the women for obvious less than politically acceptable reasons, and re-build this nation like we built it. One dollar, one brick, one day at a time. Our economy only reflects the attitudes and will of the people.

  103. SFC James R. Corley says:

    I am a Senior NCO in the U.S. Army and have been in since 1991 and I find it very troubling that the politicians are trying to fix the inept handling of the budget by screwing those who have joined the military and did so with the understanding that they could sacrifice and endure hardship in order to have a 20 year retirement option. I believe that the retirement system needs to be left alone or at least give people the option if they want to switch to the new program and I think that if it gets approved that the attrition rate in the military will be unfathomable in a negative way. They need to just cut some of the needless spending elsewhere. i.e. private plane trips, corporate functions with no point, bonuses for incompetent politicians etc… I think that the Government is going to keep meddling in the wrong areas and as a result will destroy the country.

  104. snake do c07 says:

    I'm currently serving in the STAN, & I just lost good friend a few days ago who was set to retire in 14 months. The only reason he came back with us for this 7 month rotation is to do one last great thing for his country so he can retire with his pat on the back and feel good about continueing to support his country on the civilian side of the house. And to read something like this! OMG I'M really afraid for the people of the UNITED STATES, & almost afraid to come back because I have no idea what will come of this country since we have people like this and making decisions that are not in the best intrest of the people of the USA!! BOTH REP. & DEM. ( the afgan's are treating better here than the hard working people of our country) I retire in 10 months if I make it back, CONGRESS CAN I GET A JAR OF LUBE BEFORE I BEND OVER!! (snake doc 07) OUT.

  105. Micheal Hooks says:

    I think the key leaders should be putting up a fight to make this go away. If they really want to save money, cut the salaries of the people in Congress. I bet this plan get thrown in the burn barrel.

  106. I agree we should not allow our senators or any representative to serve only four years and get full retirement. Make them take the same plan being imposed on the service member. Their life in not being shot at, dodging other war obstacles, but setting in a comfortable chair, controlling our ife. Does that make them any better to get the same plan than we. I'm retired and drawing pay and insuance, what does this exactly mean for me?

  107. Rally76 says:

    If this happens, get ready for a mass exodus. We've lost job security, the only other reason to stay in was a good retirement at a young age.

  108. Most people do not remember the draft. That was when there was not a huge standing military. People were pulled out of their lives and served honorably. The expectation was to go back to civilian lives. People did not live into their 90's in those days with huge medical expenditures. Times are different – the expenses are not sustainable. Past generations did not talk about their service. They did not put on their license plates how many medals they earned. They did not have the help and support that today's miltary is getting and called " hero" just for signing up. The military is the new welfare. Why are so many vets unemployed? No job skills (re: the terrible grammar and spelling in many of the posts), no interest in going to school, and feel like the world owes them ALOT. They volunteered to serve when they probably couldn't find work out there. Remember "selfless service"? It is not "gimme me, gimme me". If you truly do not want to serve in its most giving sense, do not sign up for the military. I am all for taking care of the wounded Soldiers but damn sick of people whining about how much they are entitled to.

    • Wow, you must be one of those nut job english majors. Who are you to put down anyone who has the guts to serve 20 years? We may not always agree with the sub standard Soldiers, but they still deserve credit for being able to stick it out. Every Soldier that fights for this country should be treated with respect regardless if they enlisted because times were hard or if they joined because they love the United States of America. Anyone who puts in 20 years has earned the right to draw a real retirement. It’s already set in place that if a retiree from the military draws Social Security they will lose an equal amount from their retirement…dollar for dollar. They pay into the Social Security that they will never see. Support the troops.

    • Idon't think so says:

      Wow. Bitter? Many people cannot live under the stress the military life brings– that’s why they say ‘**** no!’ to service– as for veterans and members not going to school, well when the heck in the 13 hr work days would they find time. When I watch movies with the prison theme i sometimes compare the background to the soldiers way of life- yet prisoners can cry about what they don’t have and they get it- they have more rights. In the military you have to ‘suck it up’ and not many civilians are willing to!
      I don’t know who you hung out with or talked to but i’ve met plenty of intelligent people who had no business in the military and yes you are right they didn’t know what to do with their lives. Some stay, some leave realizing it’s too much work for little pay and they do continue with their higher education. I went to college with many military people serving serving overseas at UMUC with a rigid schedule because many sailors would be heading out once again for deployment. BTW, bad spelling doesn’t correlate with intelligence– just saying….New welfare- i think not! If other people think its not fair that military serves 20 and then retires, they are more than welcomes to sign up!!

      • You'reWelcomeBitch says:

        Wow! You are a real piece of work. I bet you pretend to thank the military on holidays and parades, all the while sitting back and enjoying something you never gave anything for. Its people like you, with an entitled attitude, that disgrace what this nation used to stand for. BTW, you obviously are not too educated. Any history book will show you how ignorant you are to undervalue military strength, or to stab the socially non-elite in the back.

  109. Jim Hicks says:

    It's a sad day when the President and Congress attack the men and women who "really" serve and defend this country. I am sure or forefathers would truley appIaud their work and contributions to this great nation. Yeh right!! I don't see the President's or the Congress retirement systems changed or being affected. No they vote themselves raises and are to good to be enrolled in the same health plans as us common folks. Whoener heard of a person serving one elected team and retiring and yet they want to cut it out for people who have served 20 years with their lives on the line. The next thing we will hear is they will blame the Military for the financial state the country is in rather than take some responsibility for thewir actions. It would be nice if they do a little work for a change, reward the ones that are responsible for their safety and working.
    I pray everyone will take note of the blunders these guys have made come election time.

    Jim Hicks

  110. corp cannon fodder says:

    I'm a traditional in the Air Guard, Nothing new here…Unfortunately the transition to defined contribution during diffucult economic times is the primary way to sh!t employees/servicemembers out of what they have earned. Research the ERISA Act of the 1970s. The 401K/TSP option was intended for small businesses, not large corporations/govt. Since Desert Storm, the Guard/Reserve has become an operational reserve. Rumsfield was the first to openly advocate the economic advantages of this transition. What we are seeing is the next stage of having a small full-time force for admin/training purposes and a traditional force that is only paid when used. Sadly,the standard is changing. I now see myself as a conscript. If the job does not meet my standard of QOL or compensation then good luck getting me to do it. What these assclowns in DC are counting on is that most military servicemember are emotional vested and will suck it up. As much a we glorify our sacrafice, at the end of day it is still a job.

  111. nateat8 says:

    Military members not only sacrifice their lives (flesh and blood) they loose time with their families, specifically their young children while taking action on behalf of those who make these same choices.

    Also, not to mention these fine ladies and gentlemen work hand in hand with contracted companies that are billing above 3 times the rate of pay that is earned by the service members. That is what the military member signs up for 20 years of service with 60 years of ~50% of the basic pay (not including the housing, food, and clothing allowances that have been added on to "bring the service member to a respectable lifestyle"). The average military retirement does pay the mortgage, but will not pay the taxes, electric, heat or any other bills.

    These fine people are not on the golf course for the rest of their life. They are out working just as hard as the next person.

  112. With this, the cuts in retirement and the repeal of DADT I could not recommend for any young person to join the military.

  113. disgrutled Soldier says:

    WOW!!!!!!!! First the retiree has to give their ex-spouse part of their retirement becuase years ago someone passed bill for that, Now you want to take even more from the Soldiers who protect this great country!!!!!! I feel some or these people who are coming up with this bill need to pick-up a weapon and stand a post or leave their family for multiple deployments at 12-18 months at time. I think the US people should get to vote as to rather if the congressmen or senators should get a pay raise or not. I this bill passes the military will fall on it's face. lets take the congressmen and women, senators retire from them. We dont see them out here breaking down their bodies, putting their lives on the line to protect our freedom, we where sent to take out 2 of the most dangerous men in the world and this is the thanks we get…… go figure!!!!!!

  114. Craig R. says:

    So does this take away the 20 year commitment. Since I am forced to take a shorter percentage then have to pay into a TSP (basically pay for my own retirement). I would rather get out now go overseas like the majority of my peers have done and do contracting while the war is still going on. I feel this would also affect recruiting because retiring at 20 was for some of us a goal to reach.

  115. Active Military is gunna take a bug hit by this. What is the point of me doing my full 20 years active duty anymore! This retirement plan is the most ridicules thing I have ever heard. I might as well get out and start attending college again collecting my free school benefits and then do another 4 years collecting my VA benefits. I love serving my county but I deployed twice in 4 years and I plan on deploying at least 3 more times in the next ten years but why should I keep putting myself on the line till I am 40 for no retirement until 55. Why not get a civilian job that I can retire at age 60 and not get shot at or blown up by another IED.

  116. socom2mg says:

    Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it. Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.
    THOMAS JEFFERSON

  117. socom2mg says:

    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
    George Washington

  118. armywife1153 says:

    To those who advocate moving to a civilian plan:
    How many civilians are moved around multiple times in their career at the whim of their employer?
    How many are deployed for months and at least a year at a time away from their family and put in harms way?
    And for those who think my husband should just "get out" and go get a civilian job… where? In case you haven't noticed, we are in a recession. There aren't many jobs available. Much less paying my husband at an E-7 rate that has 23 active and reserve years.
    Yes my husband "chose" this career. He also chose it with the current retirement plan in place. They shouldn't be able to change it out of the blue without offering a grandfathering option for those who want to keep what they have.
    The military is not a civilian world.

  119. The Chief says:

    Wow what an insult. The equation is not complex….let's see how we can swipe the carrot from before the horse, just before he takes a bite. This falls in line with the SSA's goal of playing the age vs payout factor….Instead of trying to save a buck off the backs of the American Soldier stop paying .32 on the dollar to countries that we 'owe'. All I want is what I was promised nothing more and certainly nothing less. This is repeat off of the "Free medical benefits for life" scam that many are dealing with…still!!! On a side note stop throwing the "Oath" in peoples faces, as we're all educated and not robots that blindly walk off cliffs for a living – regardless of how many years you've served. Chief Torres

  120. Fly Gator Air says:

    So they are going to change the system, don't change it for those that are on their second or subsequentt enlistment. totally unfair to them who have committed to what was promised them upon enlistment and reelistment. Future retention will be effected by this. This ex marine "Spencer" ought to have hiss ass kicked by a few good marines!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  121. For any who are already retired under the 20 year, (or for that matter any of the variations that came after the Vietnam era), and do not think this is a problem because you are already retired…bear in mind there is no grandfathering in this plan and the money hungry politicians know no boundaries, so there is little that stands in the way of them "modifying" your retirement if the fiscal mood should strike them.

  122. Looking at this from a purely financial point ask yourself….

    How does a member of Congress making $175k a year, have their net worth increase from $35 million to $43 million in a single year, in the middle of a recession?

    Don't look now but that is the story of former speaker of the house Pelosi. Her HOR financial disclosure sheet confirms this.

  123. Does anyone else see the irony in this?

    Under the Bush Administration, G.W. Bush brought up the idea of investing part of our Social Security in the Stock Market, and every Democrat in the country went apoplectic about the idea of "risking our social safety net in the very unstable market."

    Now we have a Democrat President and this Democrat administration is all in favor of forcing current service members to take the risks that were far to risky for Social Security.

  124. zapper135 says:

    19 years of service and getting the shaft from the ART program again. I guess I better finish my school and retire to the corporate world before the bull really hits the fan.

    • I hope this do not happen because I have almost 19 years in and I'm going too go crazy if these clowns take the money that I have been waiting for almost 19 years. All the times running 3-5 miles for PT and deploying overseas to countries missing family for nothing.

  125. zapper135 says:

    I almost forgot, what about the people in the reserves and guard. How is this going to effect their retirement.

  126. Tim ARMY/Marine says:

    You dang right our current military retirement system is fair! some SCHMUCK wants to compare the life I"VE lived with his cush civil service job???? or whatever else! You dang right… OMG I'm gonna say it… ALL of you please listen up. WHEN YOU CUSHY JOB TYPES decide to leave your family to dodge bullets, grenades, mortars, RPG's IED's and find the nerve to chase Taliban or Al Quada terrorists who are shooting at you, take on the physical and mental wounds of a SOLDIER or a MARINE that you will bare for the rest of YOUR NATURAL LIFE!!!! Then you can compare your pretty little TSP's!!!!

  127. Few military people have the opportunity to pay off a home in 20 or 30 yrs! we get up rooted every 2-4 yrs. Sell our cars at losses because of overseas orders. Spend YEARS separated from our family's to protect YOUR rights, privileges and freedoms… I'll dare you compare your lifetime earnings to ours. I'm going to retire ina year. My military retirement will pay my rent. and thats it! It might cover a mortgage if I live out in the country somewhere. I'm still going to have to work just like everybody else. Who's had the chance to pay off a home and live mortgage and rent free. AND PUT MONEY IN A TSP!!!!! If you ask me I'm still on the short end of the stick. But I;m not complaining. I served my country in combat and dodged my fair share of bullets and have more than my fair share of injuries. Dont you dare compare yourselves to me or anybody else like me.. meaning my military brothers and their family's.

  128. Why does congress keep picking on our military? What is the ratio of service members who do 20 yrs and retire to those who do 4 and get out? How can we keep screwing over the men and women who fight to keep this country free, natural born citizen or not!? I am in agreeance that the men and women of congress should take a long hard look in the mirror and consider giving up some of their pay and retirement benefits! Let's quit talking about cutting military pay and taking away their retirement because let's face it, they don't get paid nearly enough any how! We definitely need to bring this to the public's attention, because I know nonmilitary folks will be just as upset at this!

  129. IS it time to unionize the arm forces. everyone else that is gets their way.

  130. Well, I was planning on serving 20, but if we don’t get paid next month I guess I won’t have to worry about this whole situation, because I’ll be homeless. I can’t believe this is happening!

  131. ITS FUNNY….WE ARE THE BACK BONE OF SECURITY OF THE WORLD, AND THE UNITED STATES………YET WE ARE THE FIRST TO GET SHIT ON. THANK YOU AND HOPE YOU SLEEP WELL

  132. I have nothing to say except my husband and our family did 22yrs and 11 years he was out to sea! My husband and I could not wait for the time he could retire. If you take away what you promised then why could he not break his promise? That is called AOL and prison time! How about you go to prison as you broke your promise! I think no one should go into the military and see who would fight the terrorists! You people in Washington can go because you get the pay and benefits! My grandson wanted to join and No way! E. Richmond

  133. As most have previously stated, the White House and Congress need to take hard look within themselves. They no longer serve those who elected them but those who grease their palms. They continue to attack those who voluntarily go in harm's way to protect our country's freedom. Yet, these elected officials have chosen to place the country's debt on Social Security, Medicaid, and the Military. If anyone didn't know, each of them collect well over $100K per year (http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0E%2C*PL%5B%3D%23P%20%20). According to this report, I believe they can afford a cut in pay and reduced lifestyle. Since most can't balance a checkbook, its no wonder they can't balance the budget. Everyone in Congress and Washington should be "unelected" and given NO PENSION. Maybe a fresh reminder of how things really are for the middle and lower class is what they need. Their inabliity to compromise on anything is unprofessional and they should be held accountable. Twenty one years of Naval service and counting.

  134. Let's play fair with numbers.

    *Military Work Schedule*
    24 hours a day
    7 days a week
    52.178571 weeks a year
    20 years
    =175,319.99 hours/24 hours=7,304.9995 days per career

    *Civilian Work Schedule*
    8 hours a day
    5 days a week
    52.178571 weeks a year
    20 years
    =41,742 hours/24 hours=1,739.2856 days per career

    7,304.9995 days per career/1,739.2856 days per career= 4.19

    So Military Member works 4.19 times as long as a civilian

    A Military Member would actually be 159.999 years old if they worked a civilian work schedule where as a civilian
    Retires at 65 years old. So how is that fair?

  135. Active duty says:

    In fiscal year 2010, more than 85000 foreigners got job offers in USA with their H1B visa. The application of H1B visa is very costly, time consuming and sometimes a legal nightmare. Why don't we just learn something from the foreigners. They don't have citizenship, they don't even have green cards,they pay their education on their own, but still they can be employed. Federal government has given us some many benefits, like medical, education and everything. The country just can not afford it that much. Why don't we present some feasible opinions except complaints. Comparing with the H1B visa holders(foreign non-immigrant workers), military employees are just too lucky.

  136. I am Army retired SFC of 20 years. I have 4 of my sons in the military, 1 Army, 1 airforce, 1 navy, 1 Coast Guard. I am very proud of them for serving their counrty, insuring the freedom that all of these civialians want and have. They are willing to lay down their lives for this counrty. For the game to change in mid term is unfair. Will anyone in the congress arena do that for you? NO. will they take a pay or benifit cut for you? NO Why should our Military do it? we are the only one that will die for your way of life.

  137. drillmouth says:

    Hear! Hear! How about some 'letters to the editor' of your local newspapers – many civilians are clueless as to what we soldiers, airmen, and sailors really do – let alone what we eventually get. I bet they don't know about the congressional benefits (like to see some 'business' accounting for that)! DON'T JUST BITCH – DO SOMETHING!!! These are civilians that we are dealing with – we can outshout them – there are more of us then them!!

  138. For Congress to change the future military retirement system is OK with me, but for them to change the benefits and retirement that I've been working for over 13 years is stupid. It means that I was lied to and that because we have idiots in the government who can't balance their own checkbooks, the military has to suffer. Congress controls the budget, they spent too much money and they should face the pay cuts. Get rid of the private jets, the full retirement for one term, the large offices and grandiose furniture. Make Congressmen sit in hand-me-down furniture like some military personnel. Let them spend the night in Afghanistan in a tent and walk to an outhouse through a snowstorm in winter or a sandstorm in the summer. Let them share an aircraft hanger filled with cots on a deployment to a warzone because hotel rooms would be too expensive.

  139. More than ever, we need to fight against this change of retirement benefits. We now need to educate our military friends and family who will be effected by this change. Together, we need to write or call to our representatives, senators, the President (how never served) and Vice President and any one you could think of to hear your opposition to this bad, bad and unjust change of Military Retirement.

    The solider who serves this country deserve the current retirement benefits. They say it costs the country too much. How much they put on a price tag of a life, a limb, an eye, family separations and Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)?

    There are so much wastes and abuses on government programs. Just to name one, government paying rent for single (never married) parent with multiple children who does not get out of her butt to work for a living. Why should they work? If they work, they have to pay rents and struggle. So, let's not work, live easy life with free housing, food stamps, county social services, etc. The more children they have the bigger the house and other free stuff they get. The government needs to eliminate the wastes and abuses not the military define benefit retirement.

    Now, tell all you know to call (go to the house.gov, senate.gov to find the phone numbers and e-mail and give them to your friends to lobby against the change now!

  140. Robert West says:

    I served 22+ yrs. in the military and think this is the lowest of the low. I think we should send those on the hill on 12 months deployments and on avg. mil pay and then see how they feel, not too well huh. If you go through with this our military will be gone as we know it today believe me. I don't think anyone will be willing to put their life on the line for this country If all this cutting of the past and present goer through.

  141. This is BS maybe they should fire or reduce the pay on congress and their staff. Do some re-evaluating on whats important. The land of the free because of the Brave or extra pay because you work at the White House?

  142. SFC Massey says:

    OMG, This is not fair. Do they ever think about the Soldiers? First it was the DADT, now its this crazy plan. Some of us Soldiers actually do plan on retiring in 20 years. I have 3 left. There better be somekind of stipulation in there for those that are within 36 months of retirement and are making plans for life after the military. These greedy politicians need to take a look at their retirement plans and leave ours alone. Really its the best advantage of being in the military, you serve your country for 20 years, invest in the TSP for 10 -15 years and then you retire at 38 years old. To me that was the selling pitch and i'm almost there. If you want to save money; pay congress, the Senators, Govenors, and these other politicians a rate in accordance with time in service much like the military. Stop paying 30-50 thousand dollars a year to house feed and educate, violent criminals. WFT. I have privates that get paid half that to deploy and die in combat. Somethings wrong with this country.

  143. Deybi Santana says:

    Here's another option for you: FIND A CIVILIAN JOB! If you are defending your country for the money, don't call yourself patriotic! I just don't get how paying people at 5, 10 and 15 years will save the government any money. I'd keep the current system but start paying retirement at age 60, instead of possibly 37. The current system cannot be sustained, it's stupid. Btw, I have 12 years of military service and have never complained about military pay.

  144. So is the pay for the individual going to increase to what the civilian sector gets paid and does that include overtime . I thought not.

  145. I served my country for 20 yrs before I retired, 10 years out of my 20 we were at war with North Vietnam; I stayed in for the most part for the retirement I would receive at the end of my 20 year enlistment. Let use not forget the military works for HALF PAY compared to our civilian counterparts, we did not and do not get paid for overtime, and the military works a lot of overtime.

    The 20 to 30 year retirement plan is the only way the military personnel can get compensated for there many years of service and the hardship that went along with the Job.

  146. I am at 19 years now. If a new system were to go into effect today, I would rate 37.5% vice 50%? This makes no sense whatsoever.. they would grandfather to a certain extent, I am sure.

  147. Deployed sailor says:

    So who do we get the help from? Now we not only have terrorist to worry about shooting us down but our own government we work for is taking shots at us. The worst part is our family is directly affected by this. I'm sorry, but I get paid to pay bills and feed my family. I love me country but I have to ask. Why doesn't our country love us anymore?

    Who do we turn to now?

  148. None of that makes sense. How are you going to argue the fact of war is over and all we do is stay state side and train. i just got a naval message that said now my deployments will be longer and now I have to stay on a ship longer. I use to be on a ship for three years now its six. On top of that service members have to worry about getting processed out due to new perform to serve requirements. I think everyone to agree that serving their country is a honor, but also the families of these service members are doing some serious sacrifice. I think that military members deserve the retirement that is in place they deserve it. Like someone said before if a service members retirement will go away so should the rest of the government officials.

  149. templerman says:

    I am a Service Brat. My Dad retired in 1970 after 30 years in three wars, four if you count the 'Cold War’. He passed on at Christmas 2003; He and I also spent 20 years taking care of my Mother after she was paralyzed by a stroke. I considered my Dad my hero, as I do most of the men and woman who serve our Country.
    If they want to put this system in place, the American Servicemen and woman ought to have the same rights as any other worker. They should make the service like being in a private side union. Let em have the right to collective bargaining, and all of the rest. It’s ridicules!

  150. templerman says:

    Why do you think most cops retire at twenty years? You can only take so much of the stress and shock of the work until it catches up with you and your family. Why do you think so many police officers have disrupted families, problems with drinking and more? I have even read where some forces even have suicide clauses in their benefits and insurance package.
    If we need more money then raise taxes. Educate the dumb public that you cannot run a country and have programs without paying for them.
    Military Service is a trust, a pact between those who serve and the people they take an oath to protect. I have seen countless times that these pacts and promises of pay and benefits have been rescinded by congress. My Dad and Mother were promised medical benefits for life. Then they never delivered. Twenty years after, under President Clinton, they restored medical coverage. Strangely, the original benefits were taken away under the tenure of the Great Savior Reagan.

  151. templerman says:

    Now they want to scratch retirement. Make military retirement more like corporate retirement. Please! This is the same BS that the corporate world pulled through the 70's and 80's with American workers, who built this country after the War. They stole their retirement and their benefits, not to mention the American Dream, all in the name of competition with other nations, nations we built up after ridding them of their dictators.
    At the heart of all of this is the creeping philosophy of Ayn Rand and her neo-conservative/libertarian sycophants. There stated goal is no government, or one so small they can “drown it in the bathtub”. They talk about private police, emergency services, and even military, all without any taxes whatever. The problem is that you also have to be rich enough to pay for such services.
    Someone once said that the kind of protection you can buy is about as good and reliable as the kind of woman you can buy. If that is the kind of world you want to live in, I’ll pass.

  152. jim sherer says:

    It is really simple, while those never whose served were getingm their civilian life going those who served did not.
    Get out 40 plus years of age and no one wants them , that is why they need a pention.
    I retired after 26 years with national guard and 7 years active , and with a lot of civilian experiance when I was 45 and out of work it took me 5 years to find a good job and now you want to screw these guys and gals.

  153. This is such a shame, we don't ask for much besides what we deserve for serving our country. A service that most would never do because of fear becuase what you risk is much to valuable "life". When we deploy are lives are at risk, some never make it back.

    Look somewhere else besides finding ways to dishonor those who serve..

  154. I remember when I was a young Staff Sergeant serving as a platton sergeant in Iraq in 2004, my contract was up and and I was going to finish my deployment and get out. I had a lot of leadership talk to me and the one thing that really made me stay in was one thing that most said to me, "you only have 10 years and you'll be able to retire." What will keep our young, smart, strong leaders in now? What will we offer our men and women to keep them away from thier friends and families? What a slap in the face it is for those of us that have given so much and recieved so little in return!

  155. USAF Retired says:

    This will effect National Security!!!!!! Mass rush to retire! This will purge the top tiers, effectively decapitating the military. Seriously need to re-think the grandfather claus. Not Santa Claus idiots! Also here is a mission statement :Defense Business Board, a federal advisory committee that supports defense transformation by delivering management advice to the Secretary of Defense based on best practices from the private sector" PRIVATE SECTOR . .

  156. ADC Fury USNR Ret says:

    A Staff Sergent Asks :
    What will keep our young, smart, strong leaders in now? What will we offer our men and women to keep them away from thier friends and families? What a slap in the face it is for those of us that have given so much and recieved so little in return!

    Come On Now ! They gave you HYT, and more ,and harder PT exercizes to Get you Promoted Earlier, Then DADT so the Homos can Hide !, End of the Month they all can come out ,to Say !! Hi! there Chief and send you a flying Kiss ! Longer deployments and Sea duty assignments And you want to retire??.It sounds like lots of fun to me!!. Somebody put these POSs In Washington to do this to you all . One Choice ,VOTE them to hell out of there

  157. GS32504 says:

    DON'T LIKE IT? Call your Armed Forces Committee Member's Office: http://armed-services.senate.gov/members.htm

  158. Here's the deal. In the military you can't just "stay in" for 20 years. There are a lot of requirements for anyone to stay 20 years in the military. For example, you must achieve a certain rank in a specified time period. You must be physically capable of staying in the service. Only a few out of thousands get to retire through the military. To cut the retirement of those that made it is like shooting a champion at the end of the finish line. Naturally congress would sacrifice anything other than their own pay and benefits. It isn't right by any means. For them to be up there fat dumb and happy when more deserving, more capable people can be up there doing their job, which is TO SERVE THE PEOPLE.

  159. This is why I preach to my Airmen to get educated, because you cannot trust the government. The sad part is the number of service members who depends on the military pay/benefis. This new retirement plan has been proposed during other administrations. One of these days, it's going to pass. I would say the educational benefits would be next, but so many service members never pick up a book. The military should be a stepping stone, not your life.

    BTW, President Obama has nothing to do with this. He does not set the budget, make laws, make policies, etc. Congress does that. If President Obama did all of what I mentioned, we wouldn't need a Congress.

  160. TR active duty says:

    I'm happy for those who serve 20 and get their pension, but what about our brothers and sisters in arms who serve 10 years (or 4 years, or 8 years, or 19 years and 11 months)? Under our current plan, those who serve honorably for anything less than 20 years walk away with NOTHING in terms of retirement benefits. Our nation should be grateful to ALL those who VOLUNTEER to serve our country, and we should express that gratitude regardless of how long they served. Especially in today's military, with many getting deployed over and over and over again, there's nothing wrong with deciding that you've done your duty after 4 years, 8 years, or 18 years. The arbitrary line in the sand at 20 years HURTS our military, the vast majority of whom don't go for 20+ and receive ZERO retirement benefits.

    The retirement plan for our military should be OUTSTANDING, and I wouldn't support a matching retirement plan that was anything less than what our servicemen and women deserve, but we shouldn't be ungrateful to those who honorably defend our nation for less than 20 years.

  161. The military is a uniquely separate component of American society that is authorized by the Constitution and common sense. It is not a civilian workforce and carries a much bigger burden in the DOD than its civilian counterparts and it seems we're more intent on sustaining a bloated bureaucracy and "supporting" activities than the actual warfighter. These "supporting" elements are definitely intent on slitting our throats to support their careers and paychecks. Now I’m gonna slam the DOD civilian side as I just finished a year in Afghanistan where the average contractor was being paid double or triple what we are paid (and there were lots!) only to return to my current job which is 75% civilian. I keep being denigrated by these GS/contractor folks who according to a federal ranking scale technically outrank me (E7/16 years active)…..however in my dealings with them which I have done everyday for the last 2 years all I see are what would be considered equivalent to an E-4 mentality with them both responsibility and performance-wise. They don’t move unless they want to, deploy for long periods of time unless there is big money in it, are free to quit or look for employment elsewhere anytime, are able to go home EVERY NIGHT to their family, can focus solely on one job or task while having little professional requirements/standards other than their job description, have high tolerance for incompetence and aren’t required to DIE as part of their deal. All this while being slowly sidled up more and more to the military in all the “nice” spots so they can be jealous of a 20-year retirement pension which is subject to individual service stipulations and possible recall to duty. Not Fair??? The service takes a toll on its members that it seems some people just aren’t understanding so I say to all civilians who see fit to examine the military from their cubicle: GET YOUR A*& TO THE FRONT, DO IT FOR 20 YEARS AND THEN TELL ME YOUR OPINION OR PROPOSED PLAN

  162. I keep hearing about congressmen getting full pay retirement after only four years, but have never seen any proof that it's true. Is it an "urban myth", or straight dope?

  163. Concerned VET says:

    As a disable veteran and senior citizen, the proposed cut in entitlements will destroy me financially. I worked and paid income tax and fica taxes until I was 72. My wife June, was 59 years old when she died. She worked and paid taxes for 42 years and never collected social security during her lifetime. What happened to this money, and how many other folks died before they could collect? We need to clean house in Washington Here’s a way we could do it.

    Arizona, New Hampshire and other States are waking the people up to the actual document that empowers the federal government called the constitution. Arizona is saying that if they are joined by 34 other states they can re-affirm the constitution, elect a new Congress and a New President. This is essentially a peaceful overthrow of the Federal Government. By states implementing their Sovereignty rights as Arizona has done, 35 Sovereign states joining together can re-affirm the constitution, elect a new Congress and a New President. Myself and over 700 other North Carolinians have signed A Petition for North Carolina to Pass a Sovereignty Resolution. Help us in your home state to get the job done.

  164. Bob Falco says:

    "Some see this as a way to make the sys­tem more flex­i­ble or fair to those who serve less than 20 years and a great way to reduce the over­all cost of mil­i­tary retire­ment."

    This statement says it all. Every adult born in this country or naturalized citizen has the opportunity to apply for military service. Once in, it is an individuals choice whether or not to serve 20 years.. provided they can maintain the standards. There's no "fair" about it.
    I choose to spend 20 years and I earned every cent of my retirement check and benefits. On the flip side of this coin is it "fair" that most civilian employers penalize retired veterans for our service by writing job descriptions for positions they need to fill that exclude or fail to recognize our management and leadership experience? Is it "fair" that as a former senior NCO with a degree I don't qualify for most Federal Government management positions for the very same reasons? Is it "fair" that…..

  165. I do not believe this would pass; at least not on those who are already active duty. Doing so is comparable to being promised the golden medal for winning first place in the Olympics, only to be told, "Sorry friend! You did a fantastic job, and thanks for your hard work, practice, and service! But we no longer have any gold to give you, so here's a bronze medal instead"! That'd just be flat out wrong! Besides, I'm certain any attempted breach of DoD contracts would cost them in the court of law. Besides, what good is preaching "Integrity" and "honor" if all they ever focus on is "service before self". This seems like the only "cliche" military leaders rely heavily upon these days.

    It is my opinion folks, that this is nothing more than negative propaganda used to stir up fear and anger, primarily with the hopes of some (or most) service members quitting before reaching 20 years of service. I've got 6 months to go before hitting 20 years, and I already have a retirement date. The only reason why I'm retiring is because of the constantly changing P/T program; these changes and standards are beating this old body into permanent joint problems; yes P/T can be bad for you. Sure P/T is great for muscles, and our cardiovascular system. But it's terribly bad on joints, and possibly bad for your heart, as well as your kidneys. Too much stress can damage the linear of the heart, and too much exercise can cause kidney damage from excessive sugar.

    These civilians appear to be anti-pension anyways, and fail to see the honor in paying service men and women for their valued sacrifices. Civilian employee's aren't required to move from location to location at the issuing of PCS orders; civilians aren't required to deploy for up to 14 months at a time away from their families, return for 4 to 6 months, and then hit the road again. And most importantly, civilians aren't required to put their lives on the line in the hopes of reaching a 20+ year career. Now when I say "civilian", I'm not referring to civil-service employees such as policemen, firemen, etc. I'm referring to the everyday civilian population working within the private sector. Those guys may dislike our pay and benefits, but they sure's hell know nothing about sacrificing. Weekend duty? That's why they get paid overtime. Holidays? Double-time. Military? Yea right! As if!

    Finally, if the Air Force can't afford to pay for its equipment, then you either need to start negotiating better contracts, or stop the Earmark spending, or simply learn to do without. I want a Porsche, but because my funds do not permit me to buy one, then guess what DoD Officials! I don't need it! It's not my fault that you want to scratch the backs of military equipment contractors; especially these retired Colonels and Generals engaging in very nice Earmark spending just before retirement. Must be nice to retire (you get yours), AND screw the VA system out of 100% percent for loss of hearing (an actual Colonel was arrested for scamming the VA), AND hold a GS15 position at the DoD. You got yours, but you want to take ours???

    Now about DoD equipment costs, the F-22 is too expensive, and quite honestly, IS NOT WORTH CRAP! There's nothing wrong with the F-15, or the F-16. Yes I know it's old technology. But who do you plan on going to war with, or bombing? You don't need 1.2 million dollar aircraft to bomb the dickens out of rag-heads on camel! And air-to-air? That's almost a thing of the past! Oh, I know, everyone is so worried about China. Geez, give me a break; they need us more than we need them. The United States supports their economy too much, so going to war with them is not something logically envisioned. And spending billions of dollars on aircraft for a "future" war that more than likely will never happen, at the total cost of its members and their pensions, is futile, immoral, and just not right!

    I dare anyone DoD official to screw my hard-earned retirement!

    Joe

  166. I hope the the Government is ready for a poorly trained, young, and inexperienced force. Because that is all this is going to lead to if this pushes though Congress. 13 years in, 3 combat tours, I feel that my combat experience, as well as the experience of those senior of me. Has lead to the fact that every deployment, no one in my platoon has ever lost their lives. If this thing goes though, will be getting out at the end of my current enlistment before I wind up to old to get a decent job. I'm sure most combat vets will do the same. Hopefully, Congress will be able to to answer for the many more K.I.A.'s this will cause. Good luck on leading an effective force when your Higher Leadership consists of 25 year olds. It's funny that this will just lead to the Guard and Reserve becoming our primer fighting force. I mean, why be active, when you can earn the same benefits part time?

  167. Vietnam Veteran says:

    You people who thought up this assine idea are the VERY people that give yourselves big pay raises without asking the american people, who waste more money in a day than a family gets all year. Anytime you want to make cuts you pick the elderly, maedicare, social security, military and their families, and veterans. Talking about KICKING people when they are already down. and as far as paying the military for 60 years for 20 years of service, you should get on your knees every nite and THANK GOD that you can repay these people for putting their lives on the line and seeing all they see in times of war ,so that you can spew the God awful crap that you people think of. you should be ashamed of yall selve. but you have all the perks, And while we are at it, WHY SHOULD WE PAY THE PRESIDENT FOR LIFE AFTER HE HAS VIOLATED EVERY RIGHT OUR FORFATHERS GUARNTEED US? You have no right to print up money as you wish, do all the underhanded things you people do. And quit taking you and your families on massive vacation with half your relatives, hairdresser, staff, and on and on at OUR EXPENSE. We need another GOOD BOSTON TEA PARTY TO SHOW ALL YOU IN WASHINTIN,DC THAT the american people are in charge, you are working for us

  168. I have served 8 years and still serving, have been deployed to 7 countries and been stationed in 4 states and missed the birth of my son and thats in a 8 year period. Tell me what civilian has had to be uprooted from their family like that? One of the reasons for me staying in is a retirement after 20 years so if they can’t promises me that I won’t promises them 20 years. A military family doesnt have the oppurtunity to establish a good healthy retirement during their 20 years of moving and working. So yes a lifetime of retirement pay is rated by all serves members.

  169. If you really take a look at what is being proposed, it is actually beneficial for current and future service members. I have 14 years of active duty service, and if the new system were to be approved tomorrow, and we could start collecting retirement immediately upon dropping our papers, the system would be great, and I would undoubtedly support it. If, however, you could not start collecting retirement until 60 or beyond, the system would be a a disaster, and would not benefit those of us who have been in for any length of time under the old retirement system. Bottom line, it all depends on when the retiree with less than 20 could start collecting their benefits.

  170. The proposed plan doesn't benefit anyone except our government and the services; not the members. One would not be able to collect until age 58 if you've served 30 years, or 65 if you only served 20 years…unless I'm mistaken. Now if you sere less than 20 to 30 years, you already started a 401k (Thrifts Savings Plan), and so nothing changes. At your next job, I suppose you'd keep on adding money to the plan.

    The bad? How many would actually make it to 65? The average Enlisted member dies between 5 and 15 years after retirement. A member quitting at 20 years would have to wait another 20 to 25 before he/she could begin drawing from their 401k (this is assuming the member retires at 20 years).

    Who would want to join at all? What would be the benefit of the member? I'm sure our leaders would say, "Duty, honor, and country!" Well then my civilian DoD Officials. The day you turn in your retirement checks, VA compensations, and even take a reduction in pay, is the day you can have my retirement pension!

    Joseph

  171. U know we've got some real smart people developing all kinds of wild ideas, it does'nt take a genuis to screw people, if u want to impress me figure out a way to get the VA to process disabiltiy claims faster, I'm currently in the process of retiring after 30yrs, this is not the kind of crap I want to hear after serving 30yrs, by the way the next time my mortgage or car payment come due I'm gonna tell my creditors that I decided to change the rules, hell if the Govt can why can.t I!!!!!!

  172. Donald Coon says:

    China, who will be in control soon, Amercan cannot contain World Leader it just cost to dam much China will explaned growth while the USA does down China Military will explaned while the USA goes down to pre-World War 1 times slowly the dragon will bite………

  173. Typical BS, how much did the tax payers pay these bums to commision this report, DOD could have come to this sight and read these posting and found out that this plan suck……..

  174. Rita Petty says:

    374814
    My husband retired after 24 years of service. I only spent 2 years in the AF but we encouraged our 3 sons to get out after 4, 12, and 8 years. We could see what was coming down the line. Fortunately they got out at the right time. Now it is hard with getting a job and we have homeless GI's from Iraq on the streets. That is the thanks you get for putting yourself in the line of fire when it should be our Congress and President.

  175. So what happens to those who made the decision at 15 years to take the high 3 plan with 50% retirement and regular cola increases at 20 years, or the redux 30k bonus with a 40% retirement and reduced cola at 20 years?

  176. I reenlisted on 19 September 2001, at my ten year mark, which means I fought the fucking war, and am now retiring at my 20. If I had known this horrifying shit, I would have given ZERO more days to the US Army. This government needs to look EVERYWHERE ELSE to fix the mess we're in, prior to hurting the Soldiers whose sacrifice enables the United States to exist at all!

  177. It is sad when you complain about somthing and many people use the old familiar phrase "The world doesn't owe you a living." I wonder how many military officers and NCOs (active, reservists, Guard, and retired ) stated those words to their own troops, to civilians, and their own family members and now it has come back to bite them in the rear area (the pocket book area).

  178. flatwoodsflyer says:

    You know this is going to affect the inlistments, maybe it will bring back the draft and get some of the bums off the streets, I`ve always been for the draft, like Isreal has, you hit the 18 yrs old mark , male and female, your ass goes in the military for 2 years, might even help the unemployment numbers, like most of the posts here have said , " bet the powers to be never served a day", we have some great members in congress and the senate, but seems like they are in the minority, the " BAD" ones are really " BAD"

  179. This is completely wrong and this man needs to hurry up and get out of the oval office. Socialism is on the rise for America and this is only the beginning. The biggest mistake we made was letting this liberal get into office with all of his false hopes and dreams that he pulled from his ass. I believe its time for the American citizen to stand up for themselves and fight this. The politics of this country is ridiculous and now that we are on the brink of losing our status as the world power our government is making all the decisions in the world that protect them and only them.

  180. "a great way to reduce the over­all cost of mil­i­tary retire­ment." Are you freaking kidding me? The military is one place they DO NOT need to mess with as far as budget cuts!!! SHAME ON THEM!! What those men and women do on the war field far outweigh their current pay and their retirement already!! Lets stick congress out there alongside them for just one day and see if their minds are changed.
    -Pissed off vet and military spouse

  181. RE: Bloggers note,This comment is precisely the what's wrong with the way liberals think. It reads “Pay­ing the mil­i­tary& their fam­i­lies for 60 years to serve for only 20 years” is unsus­tain­able" According to this person a vetean lives till 100! The median age of death for a man is 76 yrs old. So if he retires at 40 it's 36 yrs retirement not 60.
    Investing 16% of a serviceperson's income is essentially a 16% pay cut because the current system is free. Young servicemen/women aren't thinking about retirement, they're thinking about feeding small children. So they won't join, and we'll need a draft, and we'll draft those who don't want to be in the military, and our military will be weaker.

    You need incentives to sell a job to young Americans that involves a serious risk of death. Lower wages won't do it. It may excite the poor and poorly educated. Then the military will be in the news again.

    Somebody dig up Ronnie Reagan, the last president to truly stand behind this countries military.

  182. David Snead says:

    How much does our military have to give up while the most rich receive tax breaks?

  183. David Snead says:

    What if Congress had to live under the same conditions they want our military to live under?

    Would they then be so quick to suggest our military take something less?

  184. Navy Wife says:

    Typical D.C. bs, when they want to cut spending, they look at DoD first. I think they should cut their salaries and leave our military alone to do the great job they are doing now. I don't want to live in a country where I don't have a volunteer military that wants to keep our freedoms. God Bless Our Troops!

  185. Comshelf says:

    When is this suppose to take place? Is this just hearsay? or is therer an actual bill being proposed?

  186. This should be a crime and those suggesting it should be locked up. They have no idea what sacrifices military members have made….this is not corporate America!

  187. Why don't we cut the politicians retirement and medical first and see if they like it. Then come talk to me.

    Soon to be retired MSG

  188. USFSPA Casualty says:

    The DoD is sick of fighting retirees fighting the USFSPA ("be court ordered to pay your ex-spouse up to half your retired pay for life" law !) – Now retired pay will become a true "pension" – something it never was nor meant to be (like those slimey lawyers / former JAG's tell potential ex-wives that it is a jointly earned martial property that can be divided). Is this what life-on-the-line military service is coming to ? BULL CRAP !!!!!!!!

  189. Quit crying everybody and get back to work….Get out and vote in the next election. This is an all VOLUNTEER military service. If you don't want to serve go elsewhere to find employment. Don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

  190. This is what some of you get and some of you still want to blame Dems and POTUS and right now on the news republicans even as we speak Ryan wants to reintroduce SSN and Medicare cuts Bachman alone with other republicans has already stated that she wants to cut military pay and they want to go after disabled vets benefits and pay we have lost over 4000 vets for a conflict that was presented over false info that saddam was the threat when in realality it was the same man who the seal team killed hiding out in pakistan Bin Laden. Look at the vets we have coming back from this conflict losing limbs,sight, scarred inside and out and still cant get treatment because we're short of facilities and workers. Yet some of you still believe lie after lie because you cant get passed the skin color of one man, when we went to conflict those same men of different skin color fought back to back with me. And some of you who have been to battle know this is true, for some of you who are truly americans who eyes are open help some of these others before they come after us unless some of you figure that i've got mine let them struggle to get theirs. Semper Fi people.

  191. Harry wolfgang says:

    Elected officials should have pay and benefits changed along with all military!

  192. Disgusted says:

    I'd sure like to know why a congress member gets full benefits and security for the rest of his/her life after serving a sweet 4 years in Washington. What a rip off to the military who deserve even more than what they get. . . . . my husband fought in the South Pacific AND Korea. He's lucky to be alive and you talk about reducing benefits.???? Give me a break.

  193. Mike, you have conservatives like Scott Walker saying the same thing about federal, city, county, and state employees where Walker stated that contribute state contributions and paying pensions to these groups is unstainable..

    Furthermore, you have Republicans like Michelle Bachmann, a Republican, is in favor of reduciing military benefits.

    • Exactly! I've been telling my work associates the very same thing. They are under the impression that the DoD's desire to cut pensions is all coming from Democrats. And it's not! It's coming from the party who CLAIMS supports the military. If people would do their research, when each pay-raise is voted upon, the majority of Politicians who voted for our pay-raised were Democratic. Less than 25% percent were Republican. And they wonder why I changed party sides.

  194. This is more polical non sense! We elected these people to protect our rights and service. The current administration gives away money to people who have done very little to earn it and as a result of getting the money melinger in their efforts to even get employed!! Know ot better support these free programs they want to take from retirees to help fund these free money programs. I am truly ashamed of this countries leadership or rather those in office. We can only pray and trust in God that they will not accomplish the plans to cut benefits of those that have served with pride and sacrafice!!!!

    • Walt, President Reagan, Bush, Senior, and Bush, Jr., plus the Republican Congress people give away money to people who have done little or nothing to earn it for the last 30 years.

  195. I have many issues with this new retirement plan proposal. However, what struck me the hardest from this particular article was that it stated that the new plan could be used to entice service members to retire early or stay in longer. What about those of us with more than ten years of service that have already been enticed by a twenty year fifty percent retirement? My husband and I literally said that if we did one more enlistment then we might as well stay in for the retirement benefits. Essentially, the new guys will get the better end of the deal and screw everyone that has already put their time in. It wasn't like we were getting payed mega bucks to do our jobs in the first place.

  196. IT LOOKS LIKE WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER CIVIL WAR IN OUR OWN COUNTRY TO MAKE THE GOVERNMENT REALIZE THAT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING PUSHED AROUND AND KEEP THE RIGHTS WE WERE PROMISED WHENEVER WE SIGNED ON FOR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. WE TOOK LESS PAY, FOLLOWED ORDERS, WHERE PLACED IN HARMS WAY AND DID THINGS THAT CAN NEVER BE PUBLISHED OR REPEATED AND NOW THEY WANT TO TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY. I SPENT 4 YEARS ACTIVE DUTY IN THE NAVY AND 22 YEARS IN THE USAR RETIRING AS SENIOR MASTER SGT.

  197. hello im an e-5 usaf ret in 91 went to work for the usps in 94 fyi medical retirement after 13 years of service at the time i was collecting 600 a month living at home with mom got a break and was accepted to the usps drawback no retirement from the post office because you cant draw 2 govt retirements meaning you cant retire from feral and work another federal job stte and city is the same you can retire and mix state and federal city and state federal and city etc. but the main thing is the fers system thrift savings works like this 1 part fedral one part 401k and social security if you retire from the post office at 55 you will recieve approx 800 under this system until the 401 thrift kicks in at 59 and a half bringing you to about 1300 a month than socila security kicks in at my case 67 bringing it to about 2400 if i elected the fers plan and drop my military pension which is now at about 1100 from years of cola this if the military enacts this for 20 yrs of service you will need at least 2 more jobs with this economy we all can ***** cry share war stories there is only one or actually 2 wys to get changes to benifet the people who serve all contribute from desk jockes to harms way all keep it going now to change things you officers of all branches with your degrees run for elected offices from city counsel men to senators and the rest support them with your votes your family votes and your friends votes not an easy fix but like arthritis takes many years to develop will take same amount of years to repair ball is in your court theres no country with no military ohh by the way if the ruor is try we already hav forighn soldiers in our country ready to help with any isater from nature to whatever under the guise of the un so do we want an america or a sinking titanic its in your court now usaf ssgt ret

  198. Everyone needs to write their Congressmen NOW! This is worst than
    communism the thing that we fight to prevent.

  199. Everyone who is serving and has ever served check out http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ this may be the direction we all need to go!!

  200. mudcreek marine says:

    For all of you active duty guys: GET USED TO IT!! I speak from experience. 26 years of service and 26 years of broken promises. They, the pols and bureacrats still try to take away what was promised . We have had to go to court to protect what is left of our promised medical care. With every new administration and Congress there are new assaults on the Retired military. They have forgotten about the low and I mean very low pay and hardships that vets of my era had to endure.

  201. Having read many comments here I applaud the debate and positions. If we want ‘change’ as was pitched to us back in 2007 we the people need to get that change started by contacting our respective Congressional leaders and ask for the following:
    1. Across the board term limits of 2 terms in any one office; want to serve longer run for a different office…. No matter what no more than 4 terms period. Our founding fathers did not intend for there to be career politicians.

    2. Tax reform; this business about 40% of folks not paying any tax is a crock. A national flat point of sales tax with no exemptions solves the problem and gets taxes from citizens and non-citizens.

    3. Entitlement reform – enough said – the new healthcare plan clearly is something we cannot afford, it may not need to be repealed but it needs to be tweaked.

    4. For countries to get aid from us we need something in return if they have resources we need (i.e. oil).

    5. We need to exploit our own resources and tell OPEC we have a buyers club called LOPEC and we will pay ‘X’.

    We need leaders elected who are Americans not R’s or D’s.

    I’m tired of watching and listening to folks ***** in the highest most powerful positions in our country who don’t care diddly squat about any of us. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to live anywhere else but we need change not lip service and bickering. We are $14 trillion in debt and we’re raising the debt ceiling? Anybody think by time we get to $16 trillion we’ll be better off? In the words if Ronald Reagan, government is not the answer it’s the problem. We need to make it beneficial for corporations to hire Americans or they’ll continue to outsource. This is all basic common sense the current crop of leaders don’t get. To solve it see #1 above.

    Peace!

    CK

  202. Pay­ing the mil­i­tary and their fam­i­lies for 60 years to serve for only 20 years” is unsus­tain­able. what unsustainable is this
    Salary of the US President ……………….$400,000
    Salary of retired US Presidents ………….$180,000
    Salary of House/Senate ……………………$174,0​00
    Salary of Speaker of the House …………..$223,500
    Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders …….. .$193,400
    we the military members face many hardships the regular people never face. some family dont make it due to the hardship we have seen. i believe that we have forgot " we people for the people by the people"

  203. My friends who elected to go with the FERS while working for Federal Civil Service now collect that plus their Social Security. I chose to keep the old pension plan and have lost nothing to a falling stock market. Ask anyone who is over 65 and cannot retire because they lost their pension plan in a 401K affected by the falling market. They will tell you that those of us with retired military or Federal Retirement plans are lucky. Lucky or smart. Those twenty years my husband served his country in the Air Force meant many separations, low income for a family with seven children, hardships beyond belief but we all stuck it out and thank goodness we did because now he is totally disabled and without the Tricare for Life, there is no way we could purchase all his much needed medications. If the government doesnt stop cutting the military and VA budget, we are not going to be able to defend ourselves or care for the fallen heroes. I want what congress gets. Hah!

  204. Lets vote the Defense Business Board out! Oh wait how did they get to be appointed anyhow? Here is the plan Domenici-Rivlin plan and the link to the board: http://dbb.defense.gov/members.shtml Also if you want to email the board here you go. defensebusinessboard2@osd.mil Tell them not to change retirement pay or if they are make it start for the people just signing up not for the personnel already in or have retired already!!

  205. Elected officials should not be able to retire from a elected position, they serve at the discretion of the electorate. All their benefits should come from the state they represent. Pay raises for elected officials should be decided by referendum of the people not by the employee. Also, no elected official should be payed greater than $90,000.00 per year or the mean salary of the people they represent. No one but the president / vice pres. should have Secret Service protections. Build dorms for elected officials to use while they are in DC, no maid service unless payed by the individual. And can some one please tell me how an elected official enters office with a net worth of $200,000 and after 4 years has a net worth of 7 million dollars?

  206. Everyone needs to tell all their friends, family members, etc to write to their representatives. We can chat on here all day long about what we like and dont like but the truth is unless we tell the people that matter, nothing will get done about it. Write your congressman!! Let them know how you feel.

  207. Do these idiots in Washington D.C. realize that our military in much more than a fighting force? Don't they understand that it is the ONLY organization capable of mobilizing to come to the aid of any city, state or country on this planet after a disaster. I remember C-130's and C-5's landing at Homestead AFB after Andrew hit. Each plane brought in supplies and shelters for the entire population of Homestead, Fl. Who brought relief supplies to Indonesia after the tsunami hit. The US NAVY. If our ELECTED leaders can't see the benefit of maintaining a capable, organized and motivated force, they they are greed-mongering idiots only concerned for themselves. They must be replaced. Same with any the general officer who agrees with them.

    • The federal government took about 4 days to send help after Hurricane Andrew. Bush, Sr. administration didn't do anything for 4 days until someone told the news reporter on TV that he and the rest of the population had no water for 4 days and he asks where was the cavarly. Then the President Bush realized he had a public relation disaster on his hands.

      If you look at the disasters under Bush, Jr., the federal government including the military didn't do a thing to help evacuate the population of New Orleans and took too long to send aid to the people of New Orleans.

  208. Lets not forget how the US took advantage of the reserve troops who may have been deployed into hostile environments several times during their part time careers. The government sometime ago decided all thing being equal with a points system a reservists who retired at twenty years would get a percentage of retirement pay equal to an active duty solider point for point. But the caveat was that the reservist who was to get equal pay could not collect his share until age 55, then they decided that reserve retirement wasn't disproportionate enough so they raised the retirement age for reserves to 60. If things were fair a reservist would start retired pay at 20 years just like his/her active partners, but only getting paid for his accumulated retirement points say 2,000 vs 7,300 or so for an active retiree. The amounts paid would be equal but the reservist has a 20 year wait to collect. Lets further destroy the reserve core with cuts and make sure you kick us (Military Reservists) since we are the military's step child, actuaries give a male expectancy of around 85 years. Best cost savings the US could get is bump the retirement age for the reserve components to lets say age 84!

    dc

    • Dear Sarge:

      After the Vietnam War, the Pentagon decide it was easier to put much of their active duty forces into the reserves because then it would be much easier for the President to get them into combat because the Pentagon didn't have enough regular active duty troops instead of worrying about calling out the reserves like President Johnson had face during the Vietnam War.

  209. Yes – contact your Congressional Representative preferably in writing. Go to Google and search on emailing your Congressional Representative. Tell them how you feel. Then send an email to those folks you were in the military with and have them do the same. Changing retirement entitlements is unacceptable for those already getting it and for those who already qualify to get it. Changing it for new entrants if change is warranted is the only way changes should be made. The trouble with entitlements is we become dependent on them and if they’re reduced or taken away then many will either have to return to work or rely on welfare again. Earlier in my military career an E6 with 2 kids and living in base housing qualified for food stamps.

    The military as we all are aware is an all volunteer deal. Since it’s a choice and the choice is made based on what it comes with and then taking it away is akin to buying a fully equipped car and then the manufacturer telling you they’re going to disable the lumbar, air conditioning, cruise control, etc.

    I foe one am not surprised by this shift. We have $14 trillion if debt. If you rob Peter to pay Paul you can always count on Paul’s vote. We have more people unemployed than we’ve had in forever. The fundamentals of our economy stink. Who is to blame? As long as we send folks back to Washington who have mucked it up and trust them to fix what ails us we’re going to get more if what we’ve got.

    Ask a doc if they want another Medicare patient. It’s listed right up with social security as one of the biggest drains on our economy yet docs claim it’s almost impossible to get paid by Medicare and don’t want Medicare patients. How can this be that a government program that costs so much is so dysfunctional? The answer is simple, we rely on the government for solutions and typically any government program costs tons of $ and is plagued by inefficiency and too much cost. The postal service loses money every year while FedEx and UPS thrive, why is that? Currently 15% of our population is on food stamps, why is that? Let’s talk about education. Any idea why vouchers don’t exist so we can send our children to the schools of our choice? Or why folks who don’t have kids have to pay school taxes?

    We need reforms in this country. Wonder if maybe had Strom Thurmond had one more term in office if he’d have fixed things? He was like 92 in a wheel chair and couldn’t talk but was an active Senator. Maybe Harry Reid will fix what ails NV with just one more term? There are countless examples of folks going to Washington and homesteading in elected office and we the people just continue to give them more chances to give us what we obviously must like. We need a balanced budget amendment because we don’t have $ to continue deficit spending. The President says we don’t need a balanced budget amendment if Washington does it’s job. As Dr. Phil would say “how’s that workin for ya?”

    CK

  210. Freedom is not free. Somehow, our political leaders don't remember this when it comes to compensating military personnel for the sacrifice, dedication and duty they endure to protect this country. We also need to remind Wall St and the Corporate fascists that really run this country that they too benefit from a strong and capable military organization. The elite 1% with 95% of the money need to pay their fair share for the freedom they take advantage of and enjoy. Time to force the WIC, welfare and title 8 recipients to work for the money they are handed on a monthly basis; no work, no money. Bottom line, time for EVERYONE to pay for the freedom they enjoy. Military personnel pay a part of their own wages due to Federal income taxes. Maybe it's time to exempt all who serve or have served from having to pay income taxes at all. Chew on that.

  211. 1SG(r)Foraker says:

    Hey America, do you think the Chinese are reducing their military or increasing it massively? The writing is on the wall. The democrats want to strip the military to the bone and the Chinese are about to release a carrier that is several times better than ours are. This after they released their version of our F35. The Chinese are watching and waiting my friends and they are not our friends. So keep supporting the liberal democrat entitlements for those who do not contribute to this nation and see what happens. So when the day comes that we can no longer pay the Chinese they may have the ability to COME TAKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  212. This is similar to what the Australians did to their Defense Force in the 1990's. They eliminated the retirement benefit for all military; however, they did grandfather those who were currently on active duty at the time. They have a TSP sort of system for military retirement for service members. They do guarantee that the TSP makes a certain percentage however when the markets don't perform. Essentially, a service member also has the option in the Australian Defense Force to contribute to this TSP-like retirement plan or not. It is their choice. When the retire or leave the military, the Australian service member gets a pat on the back and a thank you for serving! Also, the eliminated all medical benefits for all dependents and retirees. The reason for the medical elimination is due to their having a national socialized healthcare system.

  213. The problem with wanting the Military and Civil Service retirements to mirror each other is that you can work in the civil service for 40+ years in 1 location, I am an infantry Marine with 15+ years… I have knowingly and willingly sacrificed my body and family for this life style. Besides my love for what I do, I was also promised an end game to all of this which would provide me with what is left of my youth and a small security blanket. So that I may begin phase 2 of my life when its over. If this was to pass I would not hesitate to leave and contract with a firm that would pay me in a year what this TSP would ever equate to.

  214. boswainchief says:

    my email is missed spelled on perpose anyway. the porkbelly projects which come out of washington should be cut to the bone most of them serve only the civilian businesses, if they need them let them pay . this would free up plenty of chash. also how about getting big business to pay down the debt and then pay them back at a low payment each year with a tax break also low.ialso agree that the boys and girls in washington should take a big pay cut. also cut out the loop hools in the tax system , mostly the rich realy get to use them. all for now

  215. "In times of trouble and in war,
    God and the soldier is adores,
    The troubles past, the wrongs righted,
    God is forgotten, the soldier slighted."

  216. Why us? Remember this is a volunteer Military. If our "Retirement, Medical and Pay Scales keep getting hit by Congress Walmart will have allot more greeters. The main reason pepole join the Military is the benefits. Take them away and we will lose allot of good Troops. I've seen it. The "RIF'S in the 70's when they reclassed Flight Warrent Officers to Spec 5's amd had alot of good senior Enlisted Paid to get out, with no benifits. The writing is on the wall. What can we do to keeps our present programs?

  217. SgtPsWifeyHooah says:

    My husband has been serving for 11 years has 5 tours under his belt, while he is army, this is still a one team one fight battle. I started a petition on change.org to gain support and momentum for those of us who disagree with this. I am trying to fight this on my own which is fine I will, but battles are won with armies… Please, help me in this fight, go and sign this petition… I have contacted congressman, senators, I have done a lot of footwork against this and will continue to do so. SOMETHING has GOT to give in this situation. http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-radical-

  218. wait until your husband has been in for 24years then retires for over 6months and still hasnt got his retirement because va. doesnt care for the paper work has been turned in for 11months.

  219. Tenderness says:

    The military is trying to get out of the retirement business. I can see both sides of the coin.

  220. 1Sgt Martin says:

    @Active Duty; I think you miss the entire point….it is called HONOR!! The wonderful government that promised these things is renigging on their promise!
    They are Dishonorable leaches who have done NOTHING for their country. But live it up on our backs and basically bathed in the blood of those they sent to war! What would you call that? Heinise!

  221. 1SgMartin says:

    @Active Duty; Please understand I am NOT putting you down…..and none of us here should be negative to each other….after all, we are not the enemy here…it hurts me to say it; but those 'things' we voted into the congressional offices, are. I truly beleive had they not lied and did not count the votes of our men and women over in Iraq and Afganistan, the election may have been very different. I was LIVID they did that to us!

  222. This is the peoples fault. When there are Presidencies votetation always know that never vote for a person that is running for a President that is in Business, funny that none knew about that kind of situation. Ex President G.W.B. sure do he ruined the country of America. The war in Iraq, Afghanistan ETC. it’s all scam. Business with his friends. They are all over rich. But what happen of America? It’s sinking down. Talking about Troop Retirement, Health Care May Face Cuts‏. Devastating.
    Come on President Obama! Pull out all the Militaries that in the war zoon. And help our own country.
    It’s sinking, sinking. America will be the fattest poor people in the World. I’ll called it if this happen.

  223. close to retirement says:

    I think if they mess with the retirement system that all career servicemen should get out then see what happens. You would make the US Forces one of the weak ones. I bet they would have to start the draft all over again and people would dodge it.

  224. Mrs. Officer says:

    I think if they want the military to have civilian retirement, then pay them civilian pay. Pay them for their workday, overtime, holiday pay, weekend rates, night differential. My husband has 16 years in and in the last 6 years has been deployed 5 times. He has had to pull 16 hours duties a day while deployed and doesn’t get to go home. While at home he is on call 24/7. We averaged his pay out and he makes less than $1 an hour. No overtime, no holiday, no shift differential. Let’s see if congress will work for that pay. You can bet I WILL BE WRITING A LETTER !!!

  225. BRADD MANN says:

    WILL RURAL AMERICANS EVER LEARN THAT THEY ARE MAY BE A MERCENARY ARMY FOR THE ULTRA RICH AND CANNON FODDER ?? PLEASE CONSIDER http://WWW.MSNBC.COM "THE ROAD BACK" WITH TOM BROKAW ON MSNBC, SATURDAY 6 AUG 2011, 7PM EASTERN AND 6 CENTRAL. WAR WANNA BE'S ARE GUNG HO WHEN THEY GO AND THEN WHEN THEY COME HOME THEY ARE NOT SURE IT WAS WORTH THE BLOWN OFF LIMBS OR TBI.
    —–NOT A BLIND PATRIOT, BUT A PATRIOT NONE THE LESS !!!

  226. granny77 says:

    If you change the retirement currently in effect, you will lose millions of servicemen. I have three grandsons in the military and they plan to serve 20 years now. However, if it is changed, all three said they will not reenlist.

  227. I believe this plan is completely ludicirs. There is not a seamless line in regards to military and civilian pay, compensation, and service. If we are now going to be compared to and treated like civilians, then here is what the military should also recieve:
    As a soldier, I want:
    1) to be able to leave EXACTLY at my eight hour mark, not a second over regardless of what still needs to be done to support the mission.
    2) accrue sick leave and have the ability to call in sick when I am not feeling well.
    3) not have leave days counted when leave includes the weekend. Leave should only count for weekdays–not to mention that we should not have to work weekends at all since we are now being compared to the civilian sector.
    4) receive end of year bonuses tied to performance whether I performed or not. End of year bonuses are a must. Civilians receive them. The Military does not. We received medals. Maybe now, we can receive cash bonuses with these medals.

  228. 5) be able to homestead at one duty station for the remainder of my career so that my children can attend the same school and so that my spouse can now have a career that will enhance and compensate for the lack of retirement pay that I will now have.
    6) Deployments should be voluntary…just as it is for civilians right now.
    7) Oh!! Physical fitness. That should be optional too… for there is not a standard right now. for civilians…maybe the military should receive bonuses for remaining fit…that will give us a comparable difference between civilian and military compensation.
    The point of this is to show that there is huge disparity in what the military is faced with versus our civilian counterparts. And, the differences should be taken into consideration. Our retirement, as it stands today, is compensation for not just for the service member's sacrifice, but also for the sacrifice of that service member's entire family. There is no comparison of military and civilian service and we should not be lumped into the same kit bag. If this does take place, then we need the exact same benefits across the board — PERIOD..

  229. How about the US Government just stop all foreign aid and put that money into the military….last year US sent over 25 billion overseas and many of the recipients were in the middle east….enough!!!!!!!

  230. 21 and Counting says:

    With 21 yrs in and planning to go to 24, I will still be retiring at the young age of 43, ready to start my second career, not take up a rocking chair. Why should I get to receive my retirement the next pay cycle? We in the military are the only ones in the federal government (other than congress which is another story) who receive retirement after 20 years no matter our age. I’m not sure I like this current proposal but making us that are healthy and not disabled wait until we are at least 55 to draw, like civil service and our brothers and sisters in the Guard & Reserve which is 55-60 depending on the amount of deployment time only makes sense. We served our country because it was the right thing to do, not because we wanted a handout.

  231. All this is crazy and nonsense. We post on here, but why just stop here lets post on CNN fox all the newspapers and see if its true that news can help change stuff. I am a counselor in the Army and I will say this will hurt the forces and how they are conducted. This new retirement plan that they are looking at should be thrown away. Someone made the comment that federal employees get retirement plans like this. If this is the case give me a GS title instead of E-6 title and the pay. Honestly how much does a federal employee make? A lot more than the lower enlisted make. Also the comment about an E-3 and his family and asking him to pay into a retirement fund. How can they when most of the BAH for military garrisons areas are not suffice and many Soldier or military member have to pay out of pocket to live a decent life style. I say if we pay into a fund for retirement then Congress, Senators, and The President should as well. Also take a pay cut. There is some money saved for the budget. There are many opportunities and benefits that congressmen, senators and the president get while in term. All in all the system might be broke, but so is welfare and medicade and medicare. How about fixing welfare and making people do something to get this money. I understand this is a way to help the less fortunate live life, but how about the millions that use go through life without consequences and not getting jobs. I understand some might not be able to and thats all fine and dandy, but look at those others that just collect a pay and drive nicer cars then most Soldiers.

  232. Who will help. All of you who say I got out and thank god I did when I did. Shame on for not taking on this fight for your brothers who are still in. This has all happened in the past 3 years, what will happen in the next 5 years. Our elected government is supposed to work for use. Where are you retired Senior enlisted and officers. I am serving my country, maybe I should just go on welfare and at least I will get paid for doing nothing.

  233. I keep reading people saying quite your crying and do what your payed to do. This is not about pay . OPEN YOUR EARS This is about retirement. How would like to work for a company for 15 years one day they come in and say guess what we decided not to give you, your retirement? So sad to bad. SEE WHO CRIES THEN.

  234. Can anyone answer one question I have. Maybe I am missing something… I have 25 years in service. I do not have a TSP plan. If this new option goes into effect, does that mean that I only have 5 years to contribute for my pension until I am forced out at 30 Years ????? It doesn’t seem right and I know I am missing something.

  235. Special Forces ret says:

    I don't think the Army Special Forces will get any career men to come onboard

  236. This is pure A # 1 BS. I served 20 plus with 2 combat tours, and soldiers today have more combat time than any other time in history. Our goverment made a contract with these men & women that serve and protect our country. Freedom is not Free,

  237. Poor fiscal management for many years leads to drastic measures. Our economy is very weak; these two things combined means it may be very difficult to sustain military compensation at its current rate. Certainly, the all volunteer force that has been our strength for so long will suffer under yet another, even greater, erosion of benefit. So let's see…poor fiscal mgt + a weak economy + weaker miitary = US losing its place as the world leader. Congratulations China. Well done Mao.

  238. I agree that the current system needs to have some changes but the lack of a grandfather clause for those of us currently serving is troubling. I am an active -duty Marine with 15 years (and 5 in the ARNG that doesn't count towards retirement) of service and five deployments, two WESTPAC floats, two to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. My wife and I have made plans for our family when I retire based on the retirement I expected to get in five years; I can only imagine how troubling this is to those who will retire in the next two years. Bottomline, I have raised my right hand five times and never shirked my responsibilities. I didn't join for the Marine Corps for retirement benifits but I kept my part of the deal, I hope the government does the same.

  239. US Army Soldier says:

    It is very interesting that the Government is going to force our military men and women to put up "X" percentage into a TSP that is allocated to a raggedy Stock Market that is as unpredictable as the weather; what happens if and when the stock market crashes then there goes all this so called retirement money. Additionally, the interest incurred on that money would go where, and to whom and for what! This current proposal will affect numerous people not just the Servicemen or Women, what bout their family members? Congress need to get off their Asses and take from there pensions, they don't do anything but cause problems with no solutions. Perhaps the members of congress, White House staffers, and secretarial appointees should have the retirement mirror that of our Servicemen and women.

  240. Cary D Tanner says:

    Thats why people need to think hard a long before they go vote for these type of people that say one thing and then do another, you know Obama didn’t like the Military from the beginning. Congress is a joke at this stage and i sure hope you think long and hard before you decide on who you want to serve you. As a Retire Member i hope for the best, but until Real Changes are made, starting from the top you will have to deal with these threats. God Bless you all and i suggest you join the Naval Fleet Reserve, these are the people that fight for your benfits and goes up against congress.

    • Wake up. This isn't Obama's doing. This thing was discussed in 2008, 2010, and 2011 by a panel at the Pentagon… by people in the military. Not Obama. DoD cuts were asked for (and need to happen); it was the DoD itself that determined that "if we're going to cut spending, we have to go where the money is." That was Admiral Mullen, by the way, NOT Obama.

  241. WHAT ABOUT THE RETIREMENT THAT EVERY POLITICIAN GETS FOR LIFE and NEVER had to deal with the chance that TODAY may be your LAST!! at the hand of the ENEMY!!! THEY KEEP GIVING THEMSELVES PAY RAISES AND SCREW THE REST OF US WHAT DO THEY DO TO DESEREVE THAT MUCH MONEY AND THE BENIFITS THEY GET??!!!! We need TO WAKE UP PEOPLE AND TELL THEM ENOUGH THEY KEEP TAKING AND NEVER GIVE AN INCH TO THE ONES WHO NEED IT MOST !!! WE are LOSING our HOMES, JOBS, OUR CHILDRENS FUTURE!!!

    • See other comments – Congress is under FERS, same as our civil servant brethren. No, they don't get paid for life, they get it at age 62 (or 55 if they have 20 years). By law, they can collect no more than 80% of their final pay (oh, and they have to work 49 years 1 month to get that).

      2. They have voted to turn down their pay raise each of the last 2 years.

  242. ADCaptainUSMC says:

    Just offer me early retirement and give me the papers to sign. I have a hair over 4 years left to my 20 year retirement. If I can retire at 40%, I'll take it now! Its time to move on to other things, make better money and not have to worry about getting blown up. Desert Storm time frame was offered early retirements…. Throw it out there again. I'll bet that there will be a lot of Mustangs signing up. SHOW ME THE MONEY! Lets do this. Where do I sign?

  243. this will fail. people are only going to serve long enough to get the gi bill for college and then get out. having another 1 or 2 % of base pay put into a 401k or tsp type plan is bullshit and NOT an incentive to stay in. without the guarantee of retirement pay after 20 years who the hell would want to stay in that long??? how about we eliminate ALL the pensions and benefits for the members of congress who only serve one or two terms???? someone in the house of rep. serves 2 years or in the senate serves 6 years and gets pension and medical benefits for life? WTF is that. how the hell is that far considering they hardly do any work. the tea party assh*les that took the country hostage over the debt ceiling had to problem doing so because even if they get voted out during next elections they still get all their benefits. they totally screwed out country and everyone is going to pay for it with higher interest rates on everything.

    we should have people who serve in the military making and changing military policies. those who haven't served don't know what it's like to have to run to a bunker for cover when the base you are at is getting fired upon by mortars.

  244. Wow, talk about down-sizing…. What happens when we down-size too much? Let me correct that "Force Shape".. In the past we have been able to recover…. Not so sure if this goes into effect… I'm Navy. We already have PTS, ERB, Continuation Boards. Add this to the mix and we'll definately end up with no alrernative but a "Smart Ship" concept, cuz there wont be enough to run the ship!

  245. Afghanistan says:

    the gov't wants to down size military this is a good way to do it cause im in afghanistan and you have no idea the sh*t storm that has came out of these talks everyone wants that 20 year retirement.

    • afghanistan says:

      You want to save how bout the people put incharge to make this debt go away since they can do their jobs and come to an understanding dont pay them we get paid to fight, protect america i've been in 10 yrs i got friends with 15+ yrs with atleast 5-6 deployments of a yr or more yes 3 kids didnt see their dad for almost 6 yrs.

      • Afghanistan says:

        plus training away from home but you think we didnt do it for the retirement you'll see. alot of people already looking for new jobs just in case. we have had offers with company making alot more but not with this retirement and job security. if i retire at 20 i'll be 38 and i'll get to make up lost time with my daughter but everyone not here gets to see their family everyday or on the phone but why do we do it for our country and family take away retirement well our country just screwed us

        • Afghanistan says:

          and so no point in being away from our family anymore so look to see unemployment rate go much hirer and baby boom again see if thats what you had in mind for our economy when you farted this idea out your ass cause you sure as hell didnt think this out.

  246. If you want to save money, then how about we stop spending @$$ loads of money on a ******** war.

  247. I am sure the soldiers would like a retirement package just like our government serving politicians. Sorry not gonna happen folks! This crappy deal is not what I was promised 28 years ago.

  248. Ironic, a willingness to "privatize" military retirement yet NEVER the Golden Calf of Social Security….a benefit that retirees generally enjoy that far exceeds their original contributions.

  249. Yes…we do need to do something! Like starting with cutting all welfare beyond the first child and limiting that to 3 years, shut down the Dept of Education: a redundant agency (states are responsible for regulating education), stop foreign aid to enemies like China, the list of free-loaders is immense. Strange how Washington examines ways (as always)of how to punish the achievers and producers…yet dare not cut the handouts to the "parasite" classes.

  250. Here's the thing that really irks me with this "new retirement plan" they are proposing. While its great that more soldiers will be able to earn some retirement, they are not paid enough to contribute to a 401K plan. As a single soldier, yes I would have been able to save money to add to retirement. But if my husband and I hadn't been dual military when we got married, we would not have been able to save a dime. That is the common plight of the young military family. Also, my husband has served 12 years and should have the right to be grandfathered in to the current retirement plan or choose to switch to the 401K version proposed by some leaders, who by the way, could retire under the current version at anytime and are only thinking of themselves

    • I agreed with you. How can anyone contribute enough money (whether you are a civilian and/or military) when they do not paid you enough I would like to put in $5,000 dollars a year to my IRA account, but I can't due to wage freezes, higher taxes on the common people, and tax cuts and subsidies for rich people and corporations.

      • My active duty daughter, married to a currently unemployed civilian with three children contirbutes 10% of her pay to TSP and has since the day she enlisted 8 years ago. I am retired USAF, 26 years, and had I had the opportunity to contribute to TSP I certainly would have.

  251. Dual Military says:

    Wow, I guess dual military like me and my wife are broke for the rest of our life's. Thanks Congress!!!! We have both been in for 17 yrs now and have both been giving to TSP. With the way the market is our accounts suck! I don't know who comes up with these great BS numbers? Oh wait it must have been Stanard and Poors you know we trust them!!! I guess some of you are right. We should suck it up and carry on. Why should I expect a bunch of lying cheating no good unfaithful congressman to care about us and keep thier word. I mean we only KEPT OURS!!! or have we? We promised to defined this country againgst all ememy!!! Just saying!!

  252. Wow, I guess dual military like me and my wife are broke for the rest of our life's. Thanks Congress!!!! We have both been in for 17 yrs now and have both been giving to TSP. With the way the market is our accounts suck! I don't know who comes up with these great BS numbers? Oh wait it must have been Stanard and Poors you know we trust them!!! I guess some of you are right. We should suck it up and carry on. Why should I expect a bunch of lying cheating no good unfaithful congressman to care about us and keep thier word. I mean we only KEPT OURS!!! or have we? We promised to defined this country againgst all ememy!!! Just saying!!

    Read more: http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2011/07/mil
    MilitaryAdvantage.Military.com

  253. Robert Moshell says:

    Never believed in or invested TSP. With the Market crashing every 10 years, I have seen plenty of my comrades in arms loose money. Unless they picked a low interest more secure option. So after 20 years of service 4 Bare-bases, and 3 tours in Korea, This is what some Gen. on a panel wants me to get for retirement. Tell you what , I want to get the benefits of the Congressmen that will approve this plan, or have them deploy to a HTA.

    • Robert Moshell says:

      With the new GI bill and this TSP plan, what is the benefit of serving 20 years? DO you expect to keep your war vets in to train some new Airman, Soldier, Marine, Sailor Who can just serve a few years and get out and become a full time college student? This plan will kill the Warfighter continuity and heritage of our military!

  254. CSM Retired says:

    When the TSP was introduced to the military, we knew this was the beginning of the end for the traditional military retirement plan. This is only the beginning with this "bunch" that wants to destroy our military, veterans and their families. We the military make up less than 1/3rd of 1% of the total US population but are expected to pay about 30% of the deficit reduction plan. Where is the outrage!

  255. mr french fry says:

    yea great idea. lets just continue dicking over all the people that have all the real weapons in this country and see what happens. people only put up with so much shit and then we find ourselves back in 1776 or 1861. just saying people with responsibility and power in this country really need to pull their head out of their 4th point and straighten up because its coming.

  256. Porsche911 says:

    I don't think that now is the time to change military retirement. We are still fighting two wars. The military members will feel further resentment to congress if they pass this. Why isn't congress offering to take a pay cut in order to not change the contract of the all volunteer military?

  257. supportivespouse says:

    If you are so damn smart, why are you only an E-4 with two Master's degrees. Haven't you heard of the officer core where you get paid more for having a bachelor's degree. Seems to me that you picked to be underpaid because you are too stupid and could of been paid a lot better as an officer or you couldn't step up to the plate to be an officer. You can go ahead and leave the military; one less piece of trash they have to deal with. You find it appropriate that it's okay to rip away benefits from people who are willing to serve.

  258. supportivespouse says:

    Don't you understand that a mass exodus will come and they will have to reenact the draft because there is no incentive to stay in the military. See how easy it is to get a civilian or contracting job when you get out. Just remember the country is in a recession and having a budget crisis and don't think companies won't think twice about trimming the fat to make numbers. You can be fired at anytime. At least being in the military, it takes time to get kicked out for being a screw up and you are guaranteed a job or the opportunity to cross train into a different field if they are cutting your own. Screw up in the civilian world and you're gone. People have dedicated their lives and scarified their families to serve this country. I don't find it appropriate to say thanks by kicking them in the ass and not giving the service members what they deserve. I would give up my salary for any military member. At least they have the balls that I didn't, which is to proudly serve this country and sign up on their own.

  259. supportivespouse says:

    BTW, if you haven't figured out, you are an idiot for posting your comment and turning your back on your fellow service members. I pray that your battle buddy has your back after that comment. If your country screws you, what else do you have left besides your dignity.

  260. Is this poetic justice or what? If any of you lifers have studied history you would know that every time this country goes into a severe recession veterans always get the boot. This is similar to what happened during the Hoover administration. I left after 4 years in 2006 because it was obvious that something like this could happen due to the levels of national dept. I said poetic justice because a large number of lifers are quick to throw Jr sailors and soldiers under the bus to save their own butts. And if you think a BA or a Masters degree is going to save you good luck I have both from a reputable University not U of Phoenix or some other online scam and still can't get a job in this crappy economy. Why you might ask yourself? Because I wasted 4 years of my life in the military instead of accumulating actual work experience relevant to the corporate world. I wounder what will happen to all of those Filipino/ Thai wives once they get a hold of this? People were saying you are a conspiracy theorist they will never dare to do this to me blah blah blah…… I knew this was bound to happen because it happened before in my country of birth After the first modern Afghan war. I predict many of you will turn to a life of crime as hit men, drugs and weapons dealers or will become drunks. This happened in the Soviet Union and will happen here. My uncle was in Afghanistan in the 70's and still can't work because he is a junkie. I recon this is what will happen to many other veterans of the OIF/OEF. History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.- Karl Marx

  261. Essentially what it means is that, if implemented, it's the end of the volunteer force and we'll be back to a draft style of recruitment. If I can work for corporate America with the same benefits package (minus the deployments, risk, danger) why would I want to serve for more than 4 years to an organization that has no problem of changing the rules in austere times due to National mismanagement. It's teh beginning mark of the end of the greatest organization that we have.

  262. Fair? I'm sorry–'FAIR' would mean giving the soldiers their choice between the old and new plan. The 83% that leave early know what they are missing–early retirement at 20 years. Civilians also get: Two careers, two 401Ks, kids who recognize them, no panic attacks when the phone rings at night, safe jobs, vacations without recalls, and family time without deployments.

    Civilians had the opportunity–but chose not to serve because the economy was prosperous. Not any more–so, why are military FAMILIES suffering for delayed gratification? Service members sacrifice a lot to get the retirement at 20. Any change–without grandfather clause–would FOREVER make the US Military as UNTRUSTWORTHY for LEGACY generations. You'll have to draft.

    BTW–you knew this was coming long before now. Our men and women helped you with STOP-LOSS, the surge in Iraq and Afghanistan–now this?

    You have just made "Support the Troops" nothing more than a yellow thread if you support the change.

    • Having a draft may not be a bad idea to save our democracy. We have sworn to protect the constitution of the USA and by having a draft this will allow for future generations not to fight in stupid conflicts. Future generations of troops will have their parents, friends and families elect candidates that are peace seeking rather than war mongering. Lets face it many of us were just useful idiots that signed our lives away into Indentured servitude. I know it is a herd pill to swallow but the truth shall set you free.

  263. congress lover says:

    We exist to serve congress, THEY fight wars, they put their life's on the line. they deserve every penny they get and should get an 100% increase in pay every month w/ no pay to taxes. all hail the extrememly inteligent members of congress. to you outstanding job.

  264. I know this sounds bad as a military member…but if this plan goes through….I am done…I will take my 13yrs in and leave….the point of committing to 20 yrs of service is that early retirement check. I started in the military later in life than the norm…and my at my age I can't afford to continue if the current benefits are not going to be there. This is yet another lovely program developed to continue to protect the pay of those in congress. Seriously why should they have to take a pay cut right. It's not about whether it is fair or not to those who decide to stay in the service for 20yrs…that is part of the point….you stay for the benefits….To all my military brothers and sisters…please write your arguments to your congressmen and women…let them know your disgust.

  265. i would first like to change the term "retirement" to "pension". the term retirement infers never having to work again, and earning enough money to suvive off of for the duration of your life. You will see that there are a lot of civilians who do not feel for us because they are in a financial bind and can not understand how after 20 years we can "retire"! Also, no argument should be made that, "i went to war, therefore I am due my compensation"! We all volunteered to do this job, knowing the possibilites, heck even being giddy about going to war. Now you scream about "compensation"! This statement not only cheapens our contributions, but greatly reduces any valid argument in our favor. -continued-

    • sorry for the lengthy writing, however…i thought you all would be more upset if you found out the following…most of the money paid to retirees is actually for medical, not pension paydefense spending is only 20% as opposed to WWII 90%/Korean War 70%/ Vietnam 50%/ Cold War 30%.. …here comes the biggest reason to scream…google search……"Wall Street Defense Industry Interests want repeal of military retirement..I nearly died reading it!!!!

      • all of my posts are actually in reverse order, so dont shoot me until you read the enirety. had to cut and post

  266. What should instead be said, is that we continued to serve under the pretence that our government (not country, the people who we swore to serve and defend, are our country! We have lost sight of that fact.) has sworn to us (contractually), that it would be there for us upon completion of at least 20 years of service, and seems to now be willing to default on its promise to us, as we not dare do to them! I have myself looked at the fiscal challenges our country is faced with ( challenges created by our governments unconsionable over spending and borrowing, and our willingness to give increasing amounts of personal responsibilty and power to the Gvmnt. by relying on them for social programs (handouts on the backs of the taxpayer)
    and something must be done, lest we lose our country while only thinking of our generation. Which is a contributing factor to our current predicament!

  267. I have read the proposal and agree with it in as much as creating a mindset of planning for your own personal future, creating flexibility for all who choose to serve, and creating cuts in the budget to help our country. I however strongly disagree with no grandfather clause, putting my money in the hands of Wall Street (crooked ***tards), placing any of the burden on the backs of the 1% of the population who serve and only the 17% of those, who serve 20 plus years, and most importantly, the proposal to contridict the contractual agreement between service member and the government, who like myself, have unfortunately, planned the rest of their life on the ASSumption that my government would adhere to same values that they expect of me. All we can do is wait and see, I am sure that, should this proposal go through (which I pray it does not without a grandfather clause) will be political "harry carry", and will serve only to degrade the force for future operations. (if you get out, you will be called back when needed, or sentanced to jail!! as long as you receive a check from them, you will forever be their slave)- signed-your brother in arms, 14 years in, combat decorated, fellow patriot of the American people and their way of life!

  268. Why don't the budget committee focus on congress members' pay, after servicing a term they get riduclous pay for the rest of their lives.. This policy need to change put them on the propose federal plan for the Military. Congress members need to apply for Social Security like the rest of us. . Add these figures and the numbers congress/ Representive receiving pay and you will see the outlay of federal dollars. Their medical benifiets need to be revisited and changes made or better yet, put them on tricare and insist they pay their fair share likewise..

    Since military members are not appreciated or rewarded adequately for their commentment, why not establish a for hire military fighting force..

  269. This is an e-mail that I received recently and would like to share it. because it foscus on controvesal topics that are being scrunized today……_

    _Entitlements ?????? I paid cash for my Social Security Insurance! Just because they borrowed my money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits like free health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days: now that's welfare

  270. This is a good, we have a forum to register opposition. Regardless of what we think or express we won’t have a say in this even by writing our Congressional Reps; sadly they know what’s best for us so vote on our behalf, which is why we are in deep debt with over 9% unemployment. Let’s get real here, the President (Obama, Bush, etc…) has little effect on spending – only Congress can authorize spending via funding. Yes the President may have an agenda and opinion but can’t sign a check allocating or spending $ without Congress authorizing it.

    Military retirement, like other entitlements can be reformed if done properly. The life expectancy of Americans has gone up because of the healthcare system we loath because of it’s cost but where do you want to be when you need the best healthcare in the world? Yeah me too! And so it stands to reason as life expectancy increases the burden on entitlements increases. Since 20 years was the service committment when life expectancy was 70 then it only stands to reason service committment should be longer since you’d be drawing entitlements longer. Pensions in the civilian world are being adjusted for the same reason so what makes the military immune? I have 31 years if service and I don’t want anything taken away that I’ve earned as I’ve already earned it. That said if I knew coming it the committment was 25 years rather than 20 then it’d be my choice. Change ww can live with – hmmm – I for one say keep the change we’ve been given and instead fix things and quit playing the blame game. I’m tired of hearing from volunteers for the job of elected office that they were dealt a bad hand by their predecessors.

    ck

  271. maybe all those civilians should that want to change our retirement should leave there familys for months at a time. they should also get shot at and have rockets and mortars shot at them. stay in a certian height and weight. Also be home with your family for only 9-10 months at a time. stop trying to change or retirement if your not gonna stop yours. If people dont want to stay in for the full 20 years then to **** with them

  272. Times a changing says:

    So the powers that be want to run our military retirement like a corporation now? does that mean that we can start forming military unions and have a say in whether or not we choose to fight "managements" wars for them? its time to start contacting our elected representatives and expressing our feeling about this. Me? I feel betrayed and screwed over.

  273. I'm going on strike….oh I forgot….I'm in the military and my opinion doesn't matter.

  274. Who would want to stay in till 20? Military will lose major experience.

  275. If congress really wants to cut some budget fat, then let them roll back their own pay to 2001 levels, and then use the same system our military use both while they serve and after they serve. Then link their retirement pay to how long they served and then only let them draw it after they reach retirement age. Seems only fair to me.

  276. Too bad the elected officials only care about one thing …… re-election – they do not care about the military and regularly attempt to block military absentee ballots. And I have to admit while votes count the only way to get any interest in our military plights is to have an effect on those elected officials.

    ck

  277. Too many of you are letting emotions cloud the issue. I am active duty and a veteran of OEF and OIF. The fact is that only a fraction (less than 20%) of people in the military stay until 20 years. That means the other 80+% get no benefits for their service. What about them? I'd like to see those veterans that don't serve 20 years get something out of it. Let's also not forget that military manpower is also going to be on the chopping block. How would you feel if you were involentarily seperated at 15 years with no benefits? The fact is that the current retirement system is NOT sustainable. I applaud anyone who makes a career out of the military, but the US Government cannot afford to pay your way and pay for your family's medical expenses for the rest of your lives. Not only that, but many of these retirees drop paperwork and then roll straight into a civil service job. In those cases we're paying them a salary and retirement. There needs to be an overhaul to make the system sustainable. Otherwise, the soldier/sailor/airman/marine is going to suffer because the DoD will be paying out benefits instead of investing in future weapons systems.

  278. I don't recall the Defense Business Board asking me nor did I see any surveys asking how I feel about the current military retirement pay system. Had they asked me I would have said no, do not change the system. I have given many years of my life to the military and let’s not forget the years that my wife and children have given. How dare you try and take away what I am earning with literally blood, sweat and tears. Many things in the military are privileges but I earned that monthly retirement check. So you the leaders of this country need to reciprocate and leave our pension alone. Maybe you should look at the pensions of our senators and congressman’s instead. Clearly the members on the Defense Business Board who are retired from the military will not be affected by the possible changes. So they don’t have to worry do they.

  279. How is it that EVERYONE else gets to decide about MY retirement? I’m the one who has put up with all types of bull$h**, long hours, missed birthdays, missed holidays, missed baseball games. I’m the one that has missed out on the smiling face after an ‘A’ was earned in math class. I’m the one who missed out on father/son basketball tournaments. Let’s not get it twisted, I realize I chose this career and I’m not complaining about it because maybe, just maybe, by me doing what I’ve done for the past 22 yrs, my son and daughter won’t have to.

    But what I DO have an issue with is how someone who has NO idea what it’s like to help defend this country gets to decide on how MY retirement should go. Who do you think you are?! Put yourself in my shoes for a second. Imagine flying to the other side of the planet to a land that is extremely HOT, dry, and miserable and working 16-17 hrs a day for 12-15 months at a time, sometimes longer, and not being able to see your family. Imagine not being able to call them when you want to call. Imagine bullets flying at you as you ride in a vehicle over treacherous terrain, wondering if this is the day an IED goes off. Imagine having to live life with the visible and invisible wounds of war. Imagine having to face your children with visible scars and trying to explain to them that daddy was in war and this is why his face looks the way it does. Unless you’ve walked in these combat boots, you will NEVER understand what it means to truly serve the country. You do it from behind a desk. We do it from behind an M16.

    Our retirement isn’t a project for you to experiment with. If you want to help the country’s financial woes, instead of voting yourselves for a pay increase, vote for a pay decrease. Instead of helping other countries, how about charity starting at home FIRST and then spread it abroad. It all boils down to greed, the almighty dollar. Some of you are so high on your horse that you look down on the rest of the population through your noses. There will come a day when it will all come to an END!

  280. worried American says:

    I am a retired Navy man, and this new bill sucks big time. If the Congress wants to save money, they should start with themselves, and the President. A full retirement after only one term, the President spending 118,000 dollars a flight hour for what. So him and his family and guests can fly all over the world and spent our money. How about the helo to Camp David every weekend, must be nice. Please America, take back what the Constitution says. Of, by, and for the people of the United States of America. People, we are going to hell in a hand basket, and no one is stepping up to stop it. They are all going on vacation.

  281. disGRUNTled03 says:

    After more than 10 years on active duty in the Marine Corps sadly I can't wait to get out because to be honest I do not like the uncertianty of my family's well being. That was not always the plan but well when you get wishy washy half ass "leaders" (or so they are called) elected to office, this is what you get. I'd like to say "thank you" to all the people who elected them to office. Good job America …….. next stop socialism.

  282. They must be tired of blaming President Bush, so now they want to destroy the very gaurdians that are doing the killing and diieing for the protection of this country first . Cut out all the Defence support for all the other nations we pay for each year before screwing our own first. We served and that is a fact. Presendent Obama has no Ideal how wrong these bills to kill the country is going to effect the stability of this country. Can anyone say give me liberty, freedom and the opportunity not to be slaughtered on there own soil. May GOD help us if we dont make a change for the good this election. SSG Reeves Retired U.S. Army 22yrs Enlisted Jun 74, retired Jun 97.

  283. Floyd
    All of you are correct in what you are saying. I've been on all four sides, guard, active, civilian, and dependent. We have to get together, and make ourselves and our opinions count. I am apart of the problem as well as every American. We set back and let those —-weeds, pass news laws, we've never heard of, until we violate them and find out. There are laws still on the books from the early 1800s. We have let a small group put themselves above us and no one is above the law, but they are doing it. There will be no future for none of us if we continue to let them take away our rights, and lead us into destruction and it will be the our fault. There is more ways to stop these things from going forward. We should all shut down for 8 to 10 days and see what they think, or no one shows up to vote, or write on our ballots, that we vote for the people and by the people.

  284. About to be broke says:

    Questions? Comments?

    These would be the guys to ask since it was their idea.

    http://dbb.defense.gov/contact.shtml

  285. All of you guys are whining about you would quit tomorrow. However, being in the military my commitment is to the country and not to a pension that only 17% get. This new retirement systems sounds fair. It make it so that if you are staying you are staying for a good reason and not just do your 20. It will eliminate plenty of dead weight that we have lying around and might actually make us an elite force once again.

    • Since when is it considered a "whine" if we are fighting for what we signed up for. Yes we all serve our Country. But what idiot serves his/her country for free? I'm sure if our land was being directly attacked, then yes, its citizens would defend this great land to the last spilled blood. But getting shipped overseas to Korea, and other locations, primarily to protect American businesses abroad IS NOT something that should be served and uncompensated. Protecting South Korea does not protect our country. Protecting Iraqi does not protect our country. Those are National Security and economical locations we support for the purpose of making money; out corporations making money. And so what if it's only 17% percent. I'm going to be an addition to that 17% percent. So you can keep your opinions to yourself, if you're not going to be part of the solution. And if you feel that strong about it, then why not give up your retirement; put your money where your mouth is nameless!

      Joe from SC

      • People should not state that private and public sectors workers are whining when it comes to protecting their econominc rights. Furthermore, if teachers unions and government employee unions were really that powerful, their salaries would be $100,000 or more.

    • D,
      The Obama plan is straight dumb! Yes it would cut alot of the extra weight in the military/DoD but there are alot of other ways to save money. It seems the US gov't is always trying to pinch pennies in all the wrong areas. Its not whining its called doing your civic duty as a free American speaking your mind…

  286. I read a quote once that if America cannot afford veterans we should stop making them. I have enough time to retire but I love what I do. God help the services if us older guys up and leave all at once, and we will, the day before the stupid plan is put in place!

  287. I agree with Floridabucheye TSP plans are just okay but a low ranking person can't live on it or even come close to living on it. There is no way a military person can put enough money in the system to get a decent retirement benefit, they just don't make enough money. This is just a way to screw the military enlisted folks. And a fine screwing it would be … In the end fewer would stay in the military and all that experience would walk out the gates and be gone forever. Who ever came up with this doesn't know what they're talking about …oh ya some General was on the board he would make out just fine the enlisted would get peanuts maybe just the shells of peanuts.

  288. I refuse to play the blame game like so many people tend to do. Everything changes, policies, benefits etc. However, the only thing that has been said that I agree with is that those that are already on active duty should be grandfathered into the old retirement program. This plan totally undermines and devalues military service. Regardless of your reasons for joining, you cannot support your family without monetary compensation. If this plan goes through, the next cut will be G.I Bill and other educational benefits, and so on and so on. This plan is an outrage and the supporters and developers should be ashamed of themselves. Let’s cut defense spending by severing ties on KBR, that should save a few billion per month. :-)

  289. I AGREE CONGRESSMEN AND PRESIDENT'S AND REPS SERVE VERY LITTLE TIME AND GET FULL MEDICAL AND PAY, MY HUSBAND WAS IN FOR 23 YEARS AND RETIRED, HE DIED THREE YEARS AFTER THAT, DUE TO WHAT THEY DID TO HIM WHEN HE FIRST WENT IN AND ENDED UP WITH HEPITIS C BY THE TIME HE FOUND OUT IT WAS TO LATE, AND THEY RULED IT MILITARY DEATH BUT WOULD NOT PAY HIM ON HIS VA FOR IT, IT SUCKS WHERE DOES HIS RETIREMENT GO, BECAUSE THEY WON'T GIVE IT TO ME, DIC AND I AM DISABLED SO MR. PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE RETIREMENT THAT DOES NOT GET PAID OUT??????? PAY YOURSELVES!!!!!

  290. jrehby@sc.rr.com says:

    It just goes to show that the DoD does not consider it's personnel to be the most valuable asset of the military. It's Earlmark spending habits with retired Officers starting business contracts, as well as the military (each branch) engaging in very expensive defense spending that really isn't warranted. The Air Force needs new planes and equipment; that I will agree. But does the AF need the F-22 or the F-35? No, it doesn't. There are no countries out there who are against us that demands such technology. And in speaking of this technology, it's a waste of money for an aircraft that costs more than 100,000,00 million dollars, yet has an FMC rate much lower than aircraft with more than 20 years of service. So the real problem isn't personnel being too expensive with medical and pensions. It's DoD contracts with military equipment that costs too much. And cutting personnel along with their entitlements is immoral, and shows that their true money from their mouth is towards its equipment. The F-22, while fancy and full of tricks, is the largest waste of money this country has ever wasted. And when it comes to medical complaints by the DoD, perhaps they should not have gotten rid Doctors. The Army still retains surgeons, so what's the problem with the Air Force? I'll tell ya. Too many fighter jocks running this branch, and flushing the service right down the toilet.

  291. MAJ Christopher Kiss says:

    The biggest threat to the national security of the United States is the stability of the economy. The current system of military retirement is a large portion of the military budget. Veterans pensions will be over half of the defense budget for 2012. It seems as though the military itself will be causing economic strain that is not supportable and ultimately counter to our national security.

    • MAJ Christopher Kiss says:

      Changes to the pension system are likely overdue and for the most part in the best interest of the overall economy and subsequently the security interests of the United States. The preservation of the all-volunteer forces is also primary, and the current proposed changes seem to fall short of a real solution. Retirement is a significant motivator within the military culture, which motivate a significant portion for retention and competition for advancement. The release of this pressure, I submit will drop a significant discriminator which has kept our military so effective.

      • MAJ Christopher Kiss says:

        Ultimately, changes must and will occur. What changes and how they accomplished are critical to ensuring the overall security of the U.S. The balance of a sustainable economy will rely on the efficient use of resources, which will not only depend on the initial costs of defense, but also the quality of our military, which is only as good as its people.

        The views expressed in this blog comment are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

  292. You can blame Corporate America for the mess of our economy aided and abetted by corrupt military people (active duty, reserve, and retired)..

    By the way, civilians in this country have vitually no labor protections when it comes to health and saftey conditions, overtime pay, working hours, etc for the last 30 years. There is also the tremodous wage disparity between the labor force and the CEOs no matter how well educated you are. Many civilians have to work two or even three jobs to make ends meet and get fired for calling in sick and/or for being involved in union labor activities, so you arguement about protecting our economic and labor freedom is nil and void.

    • Not true at all. That's what the Union's are for. Unfortunately, the GOP is seeking to destroy the Unions who fight to protect the rights of the American employee. But here's a news flash for you. You mentioned overtime. *Laughs* Guess what friend. Military members are not paid overtime. We work 60 to 70 hours a week, AND have to sacrifice up to 1.5 hours a day performing physical fitness to meet standards. And if you fail to meet those standards, your chances at a 20 year career are over. Not so with civilian jobs. You could weigh 290 lbs, eat junk food, and still maintain your job. Now about calling in sick, military members are not permitted to do so. They have to report to medical clinic, and if the doctor feels that the mission could be hampered from a sick member, that person is sent home until the next duty day. Why is this important? Who wants a sick member working on million dollar equipment? If I were a pilot, I sure's heck wouldn't want someone sick working on my jet. But I do agree with you that there's a huge disparity between the white and blue collar workers. American corporations continue to push job overseas to India and China to avoid paying fair wages. It's funny how the GOP pretends to be Pro-America, while it engages in foreign labor practices, while screwing the American worker. They say we're expensive, but has anyone ever looked at what the uneducated CEO gets paid? It's absurd! Although I disagree with you about American employee's rights and protections, I fully agree with you about the pay disparity between the classes.

      • CEOs don't want to talk about how much they get paid. There are 3 things people don't want to talk about in America – sex, money, and poltiics. I agreed it is absurd with the CEO pay. It is also absurd with the huge amount of bonuses and stocks that CEOs own compare to little or nothing of bonuses and stocks that is own by the employees.

    • There's a difference between Generals and privates as well.

    • Your comparing a "Chicken story" to the life of an American war fighter? Get a life.

  293. Many soldiers have stated that their bodies have been shot to hades after fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and deserve pensions especially disability one. Guess what you guys are lucky. Many American civilians work in factories where they can get cripple in a matter of weeks. Read this article about a chickan factory in Alabama and then tell me that American workers have it easy when it comes to physcial destruction of their bodies.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/152168/2_big_lies_a

    • You're missing the point. American civilians are not making sacrifices for their country. You can't compare the military man to factory workers. Besides, if the injury was caused by the factory, then the manufacturing company should be held responsible for the persons injury, just as Uncle Sam is responsible for the injuries of it's military members. But let's not forget how many American civilians are drawing disability or social security for their injuries. I know quite a few civilians drawing this. Sure it doesn't pay much, but then neither does the VA, unless you're 100% percent disabled. But even that isn't a lot of money. Finally, it's not "lucky" to be part of something honorable knowing that you will be taken care of should you suffer injuries in service to our National Defense. Working at the Pepsi Cola plant does not contribute to the security of our nation…no pun intended to the factory workers. I fully understand that our economy is weakened because of declining factory jobs. Our greedy CEO's and American corporations are pushing jobs overseas to hire cheap labor in order to "Capitalize" on their profits and dividends.

      • American workers have made too many sacifices for corporations. And yes i can compare military men to factory workers. When you look at most of the deaths in America during the 19th andthe early 20th centuaries, it was the American worker who paid the butcher bill.

        The trouble is we don't hold American corporations responsible and they want don't want to be held responsible for causing death and destruction on their workers.

        Defense companies do not contribute to our security of our nation when they overcharge on products that don't work and then they demand that the government paid them on cost overuns or whether their products work or not.

    • american101 says:

      How many civilians do you know that have had to pick up pieces of thier team members from an IED blast? We should be compensated for it or not, We are lucky?? We are lucky because when we do deploy, we see the horrors up close that we smell burning flesh, that you may only see on the TV on the 9 oclock news and go to bed after its over in your nice warm comfy bed, while we sleep on dirt sand rocks, yeah we already get paid less than the average, and our bodies are not the only thing that is damaged you think after all that our minds are still intact, yeah do not compare what we do, to anything in the civilian world, your saying american soldiers, airmen, marines, and seamen should not be taken care of after serving as defenders of america and the people live here?

      • How many Americans manage to pick up their lives after their jobs when overseas? What is the purpose of having a military defend your economic freedom when it has been taken away from you and then many soldiers, marines, and seamen can't get a good paying job after their term of service. By the way, many of these servicemen are supporters of laissier faire capitalism and then they complain about the lack of corporate loyalty to America and the military.

    • Let's give the chickens weapons and let them start shooting at the workers and then maybe well be on the same page

    • workers of all types have problems of some sort of another it is no different then being a police officer they get shot at now when a persons arm is blown off or missing a foot they deserve to be compensated yes on the disablity portion of it the law is that the military must put you out in the orginal condition that you cam in, but this is not always the case one lets say if a perosn threw there back out while on active duty they will be medicaly reitred but upon seperation they complain of back problems they would get a 10 precent rating now with all the troops coming home only 20 precent will acutal file a claim and 5 precent will try to file a claim of ptsd only a medical dr. needs to put in the final form to which states as to what the service members have a service member cannont just walk up to a claims person and complain ptsd it is important to keep copies of medical records and there claim has to be in the CFR you and I can go to joe shmo DR and there is a 90 precent chance on getting on ss disablity which won't cover the rent

  294. Blaming a bad economy on military expenses is absurd! The Defense budget utilizes roughly 10% percent of the overall budget. The rest goes to social programs, civil-service jobs, pay and pensions for political leaders, etc. And I'm not sure how the poster seems to believe that a weak economy theoretically causing a weakness to national defense, ties directly or indirectly with defense spending. It's as though the post is suggesting that the best way to maintain US national security is to decrease defense spending. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

    Our economy is weak because of greedy CEO's and lack of Corporate spending on American's. Take a good look at what Ford did. How did they manage to increase their profits without taking any bail-out money? They shut down facilities in American (Michigan) and moved to dirt-trash places like India. American Corporations are seeking to maximize their profits and/or dividends by purchase cheap foreign labor, basically utilizing them as legal slaves. With poor conditions, low pay, VERY LOW wages, it's no wonder why they're able to turn a profit. Yet who suffers from this? The American public or the "Blue Collar" workers. CEO's and American Corporations are weakening our Country with the largest sums of money going overseas. So how in the hell do they expect America to buy products made overseas if we're having to settle for jobs at Wal-Mart? Sure their will always be doctors, lawyers, and other jobs requiring years of education. But not everyone can be a doctor, or lawyer, and there are just too many people in our Country to fill such positions, even if they were all qualified. We need more manufacturing jobs, and wages need to be far better than what they have been in the past 30 years. It's funny how the automotive mechanic is earning the same wages in the 1980's. Meanwhile, CEO's and major executives continue to see spikes in their pay. So don't blame the weak economy on the military; blame the corporations from greedy Republicans! YES! The GOP consists of greedy people who do not put their country first! American workers may be expensive, but it's well worth it. You are investing in American's, and are contributing to a stronger economy. But when the blue collar worker has to struggle from pay-check, to pay-check just to make ends meet, what else do you expect him/her to do? Nothing else they can do except rely on government assistance, of which all of the GOP hope to ruin.

    Lastly, a poster tries to compare factory worker injuries to military. Well this poster seems to forget that an injured civilian employee can claim Social Security disability; it's the same with our VA compensation. Besides, the civilian employee doesn't have to leave his/her family for months or years at a time. The civilian employee doesn't have to risk getting shot at by an unknown enemy. Yes this is a volunteer force, but we do this knowing the compensation we might receive, thus making the risks worth it for two reasons: monetary compensation, and the chance to serve our country.

    In conclusion, the American economy is weak because of greedy CEO's and American corporations who refuse to invest in the American worker, and are instead shipping jobs over seas and selling those products here in the United States, for the same price as if they were made here. It is also weak because wages have not increased enough since the 1980's, with most construction workers and auto mechanics earning the same wages within the past 30 years. And finally, military members deserve what ever compensation they get, IF NOT MORE than our American political leaders who receive government health care and expensive pensions for serving a mere 4 years in office. If anyone needs to take a back-seat in pay, it's our political leaders who are using tax dollars for their own benefit. Oh, and how about ending the rather expensive tax-subsidies for BIG OIL companies when they don't need subsidies. Giving them a tax break to search/drill for more oil is absurd; we're talking 12 billion in 10 years; that's more than enough to strengthen the federal budget and provide student loans.

    Joseph from SC

    • In some way, military expenses can wreck havoc on the economy if all the good paying jobs are send overseas and there is no way to paid for the military, not to mention all the waste and fraud that goes on in the military and defense industry (should be called the war industry).

      Otherwise, I agreed with your viewpoints about CEOs and corporations.

    • TG Peschke says:

      Gosh Joseph, you sound JUST like the communist I fought against. Perhaps you forget that a company exists to make a profit. If the CEO is greedy, AND crappy, he will be thrown out by the board of directors. Your gripe should be with the government that regulates and taxes business until it has no choice but to go overseas. You want to make a diffeernce? Vote for the person who will swear to support and defend the constitution form all enemies, foreign and domestic… and half of those enemies reside in the uppers offices of the government.

  295. Case in point friend. Our economy is weak because of greedy American corporations pushing manufacturing jobs overseas to hire cheap slave labor, in order to capitalize on their profits; this screws the American economy and the American worker. Military members deserve the extra cost of fighting for freedom. If the American military member isn't well compensated (and believe me, we're not unless you're a retired Officer), then who would "volunteer"? If anyone think's that military members are overpaid, or overcompensated, then sign up. Why not join the military? The Army and Marines are both short handed, and could use a few good men. If not, then you've got very little to complain about. At least you can come home to your family and not have to worry about living in tents, located in a very hot desert, and eating what ever the Dining Facility manages to cook up. Sure we're a volunteer force, and we're willing to make the sacrifices, but ONLY as long as we're compensated for our injuries, and earn our education funds, and/or retirement as well. No soldier, and I mean, NO SOLDIER gives his/her life for freedom without cost or compensation. I can't say that much for our Political leaders though; must be nice to get retirement for life for only 4 years of what they call "service".

  296. american101 says:

    the way the government is behaving, looks like its time for another american revolution!!

  297. chiefcrooks says:

    If the plan is to cut spending, it looks like the plan would cost more money in the short run ( Pay present and grandfathers retires) plus money for all member . Since only 17% now retire, It may cost more in the future!

  298. Make congressmen/women complete a min of 20 yrs before they earn "45-50%" of their pay. And give military personnel with 20 yrs equivalent retired pay based on their rank.

  299. I am a currently deployed service member in Iraq serving my second tour, Ive been in the military for going on 8 years now, yup I think this is it, its about time for me to hang up my boots and join the civilian sector again, I love my country, but I need job security and this is just unacceptable.

  300. I don't blame you Chris. For years, I was one proud member of the Air Force who tried his best to encourage members to stay in. Now days, it's just not worth it. With the ever changing PT standards, retirement pensions being threatened, constant 12+ hours of underpaid duty, and boring/useless chemical warfare exercises, it's just not worth it; at least not anymore. I'm proud of the Air Force for how it once was; a service full of pride, hard work, and plenty of time to party, or spend with the family. Now days, it's all about the freaking Pilots; little kid pilots flying expensive toys. Do your time Chris, and get out. Don't give them another ounce of your blood and life if they're not willing to compensate you for it. Hell as much as our young troops are spending time in Iraq, you may as well buy property there.

  301. Well as soon as they pay the military commensurate with private business and make it equal such that spouses can be gainfully employed and shave a career too, pay government workers on the same scale and remove lifetime benefits for Capitol Hill, they can change the retirement plan for our military. Until the , LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!

  302. Go ahead and change it but make it a choice , retiree can take the higher of the two methods of computing. Grandfather older people who are on second enlistments or over 4 years vested. If it is not better then dump it. Just one more thing to take away. When retires got 50% of nothing there was nothing wrong if they only got $300 a month but now that that same retiree gets $900 they want to reduce it………..

  303. To make this fair, assuming that the push to end military pensions until age 58 or 65, they should enable the Enlisted force to remain in active duty beyond 30 years, as is the case with Officers. Why is it that Officers are permitted to remain in service beyond 30 years, but not the Enlisted? You can't say it's because of education, because there are plenty of SMSgt's and CMSgt's with more education than most Officers. Heck, my Flight Chief, who is trying to make Chief, already has his Master's degree. Education is not that difficult to obtain, yet it seems that only the military (or other government services) award education, while the private sector, especially with the middle class, are rarely awarded or compensated for their education.

    My point is if the Enlisted member would be permitted to remain in active duty service as Officers are permitted to do, then some may be fine with the proposed pension plan. Those who choose not to remain in service would at least have a 401K plan. But to be honest, this plan stinks, and quite frankly, puts their pension plans at risk. We all saw what happened with Emron, and how many 401K's were lost. That is one of a few good reasons why I reject this new proposal. It's only purpose is to free up more funding for the Military to buy equipment, and in most cases, it's equipment that is not needed; at least not yet. Besides, PEOPLE should always come first; that's a fact. Wars are won by technology, but more so by people. Without people, technology means nothing.

    Finally, for you Fighter Jocks out there who seem to agree with this new proposal, don't get too comfortable. With the Air Force experimenting with unmanned aircraft, your comfort zone may not last too much longer. How many of you are willing to remain in service, knowing that you'll never acquire flight time for your future Delta Airline jobs? Still want to tough it out and remain in service? Or will you jump ship and let the Enlisted force pilot these unmanned drones? It's not as though you need a college degree to play video games! *Laughs*

    THE PLAN STINKS! Avoid it like the plague!

    Joe

  304. I will try this again, MILITARY FOLKS HAVE NO RIGHTS, ENLISTED PEOPLE ARE PROPERTY OF THE US GOVERNMENT. like my husband of 24 yearsin the Navy, Comparing military folks to DoD is apples and oranges. LEAVE OUR BENEFITS ALONE IS WHAT I SAY.

    • Army Staff Sergeant says:

      I agree with you I am in the Army and been in for 11 years. To me they should have never changed rules when to the power away from the higher enlisted side and I mean E-5 to E-9. Well think about it we have that come in and are looking trouble

    • Living In Reality says:

      Of course you do, as long as you get yours who cares. Let the collect when they are 65. I am sure you are ok with reducing SS, Medicare, Medicaid etc as long as the greedy like yourself get yours. Disgusting

  305. OK, Guys. This economy is bankrupting our nation. We're borrowing more than the Treasury gets in revenues, and our national debt continues to rise. Our current pay and benefits are not bad, by all accounts. And the great majority of us will complete our military careers without ever having heard a shot fired in anger. Frequent moves? Was that a surprise to anyone when they signed up? I'm retired Infantry and enjoying Tricare-For-Life plus Medicare. There is no gatekeeper to tell me I could get by just fine with a less expensive test. Hospitals and Doctors are happy to see me since Uncle Sam will pick up the entire tab. I do like the part of the proposal where extra credit in your 401K (or whatever it'll be called) will be given for dangerous assignments.

    • In short you have your benefits let someone else sacrifice. I am retired as well and I gatekeep myself I do not let them do useless tests and I do not live at the doctors. This is considering I have a chronic disease as well. I do not see why the bottom of the economy should continue to sacrifice everhing and the rich do nothing including not serve leave the benefits alone.

    • Yeah. We know you are infantry. You did not need to tell us that. Still dumb after all those years.

    • Dick B – don't buy that crap that your retirement check is what is bankrupting this nation. Money just doesn't disappear – it gets redistributed. It's not hard to figure where the money went – there are many people that have done very well in this "recession". Many corporations are reporting record profits, and a lot of politicians have investments in these very same corporations. They figured out they can increase their profit margins by cutting personnel. What they didn't count on was that they economically cripled the very people that purchase their product. So now the politicians are looking "elsewhere" for funds since the economy is in the shi^&^^. DON'T DRINK THEIR KOOL-AID! You were promised benefits in exchange for risking your life on the infantry front line!

    • Dick has some good points and I don't see it as a "I got mine" view either.

      This article's plan is obviously flawed & neither would or should ever get passed… However, the need for a retirement overhaul is an obvious one. Any system that doesn't account for changes (like life expectancy increases in this case) will eventually need modification. When the avg lifespan was 60 a person could retire with 20yrs service and expect to collect mil retirement for 15-25 yrs (based on payments till somewhere between age 53-67). Over time, an increased lifespan caused that expectation for yrs collecting retirement pay to go up to around 25-35 yrs and then to 35-45 yrs. Current medical advances make it more likely now that someone just starting their mil career will easily live into their 90's or 100's. That means 60-65 yrs of retirement pay for 20yrs of service. I'm sorry but at some point you should be able to realize that this doesn't make any sense.

      At some point along the line (whether it was at the 25-30, 35-45, or current 60-65 yr period of retirement payout), you have to see that an adjustment is "eventually" needed. My friends, "eventually" has definitely passed and this revamp is long overdue…

      One possible change is below. Anyone currently in retirement would be completely unaffected. During the transition, everyone already serving could choose between the current or new system. People leaving with a disability retirement or service connected disabilities would receive benefits as they currently do.

      Potential New System:
      Upon 20yr "active" retirement you:
      1) Get immediate medical, space A, base privileges, etc. Basically, everything "but" retirement pay. By itself, this is a huge benefit if you think about it rationally.
      2) You are allowed to choose either *A) start collecting 50% pay at age 65 "or" B) collect 20% retirement immediately with a raise to 30% at age 65.

      Upon 20yr "reserve" retirement you:
      1) Same as above .
      2) You are allowed to choose either *A) start collecting 40% pay at age 65 "or" B) collect 10% retirement immediately with a raise to 25% at age 65.

      With >10yrs but <20yrs military service (at least 5 of those yrs on active duty) you:
      1) Are eligible for 15% retirement pay starting at age 65.

      * In both 20+ retirement systems, each additional yr would add 1% to your retirement pay (i.e. 40yrs service yields 70% or 60% pay depending on an active or reserve retirement).

      Btw, yes I am military. Right is right, no matter what your connection to a particular issue. This is an issue we need to realistically, logically, and rationally address in a non visceral manner.

      Semper Fi

      • I am waiting for your plan for CON-gressional adjustments to their TAXPAYER salaries? Thanks for throwing the vets under the bus! Where is your solution for lifetime WELFARE? BILLIONS in tax refunds to illegals? Instead YOU decided we are the problem, LMAO!!! Post the number of 20 year retirees that actually retire and what percentage of the nation that is! If you deserve a "reduced pay for reduced service" then so does every 20 yr vet. I have a great option for you, send your "retirement" check to any of the charity organizations that support our wounded warriors. Obviously the government takes good care of those!

    • Over 40 cents of every dollar spent by the Government is borrowed money. How much of that 40+ cents is given away in tax cuts to individuals and cooperation. Borrowing money to give it away makes no sense. Before the Government starts cutting I think they should put an end to some of these tax cut. Also it is time to audit the DoD, It has been years since the DoD stood for audit. I served 20 years, Korea and 'Nam.

    • Navyvet says:

      Dick when every illegal alien gets free health care and nobody works for their government transfer payments ie welfare does your tri care really seem like a fair compensation in comparison? I work for the VA spent 2006-2011 in the navy and am a combat vet! The worst part is everyone should know that a service member has always been able to contribute special pays and bonuses to tsp so no change and service member will probably lose the saving deposit plan for deployments. I also have a business education and what is killing our economics is not the military but Obama is using the military as a way to keep it afloat. Examples

      2011 stopped military pay to make the budget
      2011 Reduced Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits
      2012 Taking away earned benefits

      Heres the facts for guys on Active Duty
      Do your 4 start a roth ira and claim everything when you get out so maybe you can get some healthcare like mexicans

      • Charles says:

        Navyvet,

        Just a note, everyone in America gets free emergency medical care, which isn't even close to what Tricare does for me.

        "2011 stopped military pay to make the budget"

        Military pay was never stopped!

        "2011 Reduced Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits"

        Not reduced, they added even more bennies!

        "2012 Taking away earned benefits"

        No benefits have been taken away! If so what were they?

        • Decreased access to MTF' s, limited to NO space A, Tricare Prime stripped do to distance, loss of COLA increases, Commissaries? Increases to TRICARE with surpluses, soon to be BS of 401ks. NOBODY will do 20 with the same bennies as civilian plans. Education benefits? Yup benefits are only going up, lmao.

  306. cntryboy85 says:

    they said that 20 years of military service is not enough to earn full retirement? OK so for 20 years i miss my family birthdays, holidays, anniversary, weddings, funerals, graduations, child births, and a lot of other important events but that isn't enough. i have only been in 7 years and i have missed my sisters graduation, my son's birth, now i just hit my window and was told "we need you in japan so you are going, and your wife probably will not pass the over seas screening." so i get to go spent 2 years with out my wife in japan. we have only been married for a year. but that isn't enough for us to be entitled to our full retirement after 20 years of service. But you get a politician who only does one 4 year term, gets nothing accomplish, misses nothing in life and we pay him his full wadge for the rest of his life? how is that fair. you talk about needing to save money start by making them serve 20 years before they can earn retirement and even then only give them 50% of what they were making and tax it. i can personally say that if they change the retirement i will get out after this term if not put a 1306 in for early out. because i would hate to think that i wasted 13 years of my life.

    • I CONCUR. Recently retired US Navy, That's what's WRONG in the current administration. No one has any a$$ to CHOP the wasteful perks, retirement, and other wasted benifits these bafoons recieve at the top ,congressmen/senate at the servicemember expense who sacraficies
      everything to serve to our great country.
      The fact is, they didn't serve in the Armed Forces. Only to sit of office, cheat the US taxpayer, do nothing -but make government larger(increase the national debt,), with wasteful spending. . .it's pathetic I'm tellin' ya'.
      I'm always told 'Leadership by Example'. So why don't the bozos we elected . . . alledgely. PULL THIER HEAD OUT!!, and 401/TSP thier own
      A$$, starting with the podus.

      • As Vet’s we all love to bitch about how Congress should be working for Us, but the reality is Congress work for Big Oil, Deep pockets and their Party. Until We the People decide to remind Congress that their service is founded on the principal of Government by the People for the People and we want it back not thing will change. We have to start by going into the voting booth forgetting the Party you think you belong to and Vote VERY incumbent out of office. It will take 6 to 8 year to get the long term Congressional members out more than 40 members have over 30 year on Capitol Hill, that longer than we served.

    • Yet the idiots in Congress get better medical care for a cheaper price and get a pension for serving a lot less than 20 years. Take their benefits away first and then see how they like it.

  307. It is time to face reality! Government pensions should be in line with the public sector. We cannot afford the out of balance pensions anymore. My pension pays $264 a month for 20 years service with a salary of $37,000 a year. My tax dollars are paying these government pensions which are unreal in the real world. They can threaten all they want that they will not stay in if the pensions are changed. Then come out in the public sector and try and find a job with good benefits. It will be a wakeup call for you.

    • Greg,

      I agree it is very difficult if not gutwrenching to find a public sector job with good benefits but please also understand the sacrifices a military member makes. The list of sacrifices are very long to possibly include the ultimate…a soldier's life. 20 years or more in any branch of the service is full of these sacrifices.

      • How long, how many and how much do you think we are paying for elected officials that never got in harms way, but have a pension forever, even if only served one term and never pay anything for their medical? And they get to give themselves raises as they see fit.

        • You said it Dave!! DO AWAY with the Elected Officials Pensions and Medical.. Make them do 20 years at least to be able to draw a pension.

    • I see people comparing their civilian jobs to military retirement. It's like comparing apples and turnips. After 20 years in the civilian sector you should have a house mostly paid for. Not the GI because he sells his house for a loss every three years due to PCS. Your Spouse has a career. Not the military spouse who has to quit the job they spent 1 year and a half trying to get, if they can get anything better than fast food, to move. Never able to establish a real career.

      Lets not even talk about family separation. How many consecutive months have you spent away from your family and children. Ever had family members pass away and been in a foreign county and can't get home in time.

      Did you risk your life for 37,000 a year. Unless you were police or fire I doubt it. Don't try to compare the turnip to the apple.

      All the veterans are asking for is that the promise given be kept. This country is not broke, it needs to quit wasting money and giving tax breaks to groups that don't need them. It needs to keep its word. Retirement is not a hand out. We earned it! You can't give me 20 years of my life back,

      • Simply a good way to put it. I appreciate your words and support them 100%. My husband took care of my kids overseas and I barely saw them. We should be GRANDFATHERED when they start up the program. I didn't do any duty away from kids but I sure felt sorry for the guys who had too.

    • David Weller says:

      Hey Greg, if you can't beat it, then why didn;t you join the service dipstick!!!
      How many times in yoiur career did you pick and move, leave your famil, live in a desert, get shot at, shot down, wounded, etc.

      Besides, this is not a fix, and here is why dummy:

      1. They are trying to sell it to thoise who do not wish to go the full twenty, do you realize how many go 15 or less that would get paid from this plan, do mthje math stupid, 90 percent of the miitary.

      2. In this deployment cycle, most do not make it to retiement that do not get out, or get killed or disabled!!!!

      Like our congress, you are only looking a scrwing the people out of thier money and rights.

      If the rich are saying tax me (over333333 dollars of income) and congress refuses, guess who congress is protecting, CONGRESS!!!!!

      That's who screwing us.

      So tell Baynor to get over a colored man as president and do his freaking job!!!! tELL oBAMA TO BUIDL THE MILITARY AND BUILD THE FLET AND WATCH THE ECONMY GROW.

      LEAVE THE MILITARY RETIREMENT ALONE AND REINSTITUTE MILITARY HEALTH SERVCIES AND TRAsH TRICARE.

    • Retired and Proud says:

      Sigh, the reality is not the DoD or Civilians but the government. We sit here and point the finger at each other, while all politicos laugh behind our backs. I served over 20 and i deserve my pension. Also all the young men who have died or become wheel chair bound, or disabled. Same goes for the civilian sector, a better health care plan and workers comp. I see everyone getting angry at each other; we should be working together as Americans to rid ourselves of the leeches which serve in D.C. We need to question money spent, like 3 billion to Pakistan to support their Military infrastructure, 9 billion last month to for foreign aid to another country because of Hurricane devastation and so on. Everyone needs to start questioning spending outside our nation. I believe if all pensions where pulled/ or reduced drastically from all Vets, the possibility of an internal revolt could happen, I for one, would not support politicians who are getting richer while the poor get poorer.

    • Retired and Proud says:

      Example:
      Teachers and First Responders Back to Work Act of 2011 – Vote Rejected (50-50)

      Last week the Senate rejected consideration of this bill that would allocate $30 billion in grants to state and local governments to pay to hire or retain teachers and $5 billion in grants to governments and other groups to pay for law enforcement officers and emergency personnel. This was one component of the president’s broader jobs bill that was rejected earlier in the month.

      Sen. Bill Nelson voted YES……send e-mail or see bio
      Sen. Marco Rubio voted NO……send e-mail or see bio

      • Specops90 says:

        This has nothing to do with Military retirement and if you, or anyone else, thinks that us paying more money (taxes) for these type of programs as you mentioned you are being fooled. It didn't work when President Obama tried it the first time and it won't work now.

    • Did you put your life on the line for your fellow Americans, I think not. Be happy with your $264 a month and shut your cake hole. Serving in the Military has nothing to do with your 9-5. Oh and your real world is much different that the man or woman keeping you safe so you can have your "real world" job. I don't need your wake up call either, I have been trained to stay up if necessary to keep you and your family safe. You would have a wake up call if you had to defend yourself, be happy you don't because I betting you couldn't.

    • you may find more of them getting jobs and higher unemployment for the now "public sector" for one thing when was the last time you went 6 months to a year without seeing home for a mediocre pay check all the while takeing fire dodgeing land mines yes 20 years of military is more then equal to 40+ years of so called public sector and most employers would gladly replace you for someone willing to do 18 hour days for the same pay check…..

    • Greg

      Just for your info. LESS THAN 1% of US population is serving in the US Military. I retired as an E8 with 21 years. Top 3% of enlisted force. Get around 24K a years in retirement before taxes. Got an MBA and BS while I was on active duty while I worked and was deployed. Probally top 1% of enlisted education level. Got out and making 100K+ a year with a fortune 500 company with a pension and 401 match. I guess your one of the 99% that passed up the opprtunities the militry had to offer. Sorry buddy. Sounds like you always miss out on alot of opprotunities. Probally a problem with your decision making process. Try working on that. By the way I love and earned the scared cow retirement and the job I have now. Still disagree. Where were you on 25 Dec 2003? I was in Nasaria Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • SOUNDS like Greg wasn't in the Military or he got booted out.. If YOU WERE NOT a Military member, THEN YOU BETTER join up so you can bad mouth our EARNED RETIREMENT and BENEFITS!!! I Did 20 Wonderful years in the Air Force! 20 years of deployments all over the world, doing my job so YOU CAN BAD MOUTH what is due me!!!!

    • Really Greg what civilian job do "you" have were you have people trying to kill you??? Your a goofball. Man up and serve and when you are getting low pay living in a desert or jungle or tent like I did then you might understand what it is like. We who served do not make the wars our duty is to serve our country and a promise was made that if we serve and risk our lives and bodies we will be taking care of. Believe me as a disabled Army veteran who is in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, no one is getting rich or livi8ng a good-life off a disability check.

  308. One thing we forget is that none of the changes affect CONGRESS!!
    I think any changes should affect them as the military. BTW, they only need 5 years as opposed to our minimum 20 years and they will never be shot at.
    Maj BAC

  309. No president would ever sign into law a plan that would do away with reitrement for military members at 20 years or more. You would loose top leadership positions. It would cost the government more money to hire contractors to go to war. Besides our government is too broke right now to change anything but their diapers.

  310. Served 20 yrs, and to tell you the truth, you see the changes. My contract says I will get FREE, healthcare for life (and my family) if I were to serve 20 years in black and white, someone decided a few years back to charge the retirees some money. So as the economy sinks deeper into a deep hole, Congress decided to throw a lot of cash to the big banks, and automakers, then to take some money back from the good old retiree. Good luck to us all…I see a 401 K coming, education benefits gone, pay freezes, coming

    • There has never been anything in writing that states you get free healthcare. It states that services will be provided at a military facility as long there is manpower available to support the need. The current system is amazing for military retirees and costs very little to maintain TRICARE benefits that allow you to visit any provider.

  311. Before we start talking about taking benefits away from the military and those people receiving Social Security, all funding that has been set up for pork projects added to bills should be eliminated, budgets of members of Congress should be reduced as well as their salaries, and any monetary gain members of Congress receive while in office or after they are out of office, if related to actions they took while in office,from supporters/lobbyists, etc. should require payment of 50% of the amount to the Government.

  312. Charles Grapes says:

    The People running this Country have there heads too far up the Backsides,send all the Illeagles back to there own Countrys,Quit giving Aid to every Country in the World, take Care of Your own Country First,Congress is the ones that start the Wars, The Troops Fight while Congress sits on there Asses and try to figure out how to take more away from our military, Send Congress to the Front Lines see how long they last

  313. I see people comparing their civilian jobs to military retirement. It's like comparing apples and turnips. After 20 years in the civilian sector you should have a house mostly paid for. Not the GI because he sells his house for a loss every three years due to PCS. Your Spouse has a career. Not the military spouse who has to quit the job they spent 1 year and a half trying to get, if they can get anything better than fast food, to move. Never able to establish a real career.

    Lets not even talk about family separation. How many consecutive months have you spent away from your family and children. Ever had family members pass away and been in a foreign county and can't get home in time.

    Did you risk your life for 37,000 a year. Unless you were police or fire I doubt it. Don't try to compare the turnip to the apple.

    All the veterans are asking for is that the promise given be kept. This country is not broke, it needs to quit wasting money and giving tax breaks to groups that don't need them. It needs to keep its word. Retirement is not a hand out. We earned it! You can't give me 20 years of my life back.

    • PATRICK O'DOONOVAN says:

      MICHAEL, YOU HIT NAIL ON THE HEAD, HOW CAN YOU COMPARE, 20 YEAR OF MILITARY LIFE WITH CIVILIAN LIFE, WHEN CIVILIANS RETIRE THEY GET THERE RETIRED CHECK UNTILL THEY DIE, WHY SHOULD WE NOT GET IT UNTILL WE DIE, MILITARY RETIREES DIE ALOT SOONER THAT RETIRED CIVIANS, I DONT SEE CIVIANS GOING TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIED EVERY YEAR, GETTING SHOT AT , COMING HOME WITH PTSD,BLIND, MISSING LIMBS.

  314. UNION,UNION,UNION,,,that should fix uncle sam & his sidekicks

  315. I would say, what ever is good for our military should also be good for Congress !

  316. willard vogelgesang says:

    According to what I'm reading on this the board said they would not Grandfather this proposal for military retirement pay. If that means after 17 years being retired you want to change it like the civilian federal employees this is going to change the retirement much less from what I get now. If this happens more foreclosures more homeless you can't change this when you already live on a fixed income . This is insane.

    • Burt Benson says:

      As I read it, this proposal would not affect current retirees only those serving now active and reserve.

    • Before Congress breaches my military contract, they should look at changing their retirement plan. They get a retirement after servicing ONE Term!!!

  317. There is a 28th Amendment to the Consitution is Just waiting to be ratified by a few more congress people. It states "Congress shall make no law that does not pertain to them also".

    Jerry. Mustang Major (Ret)

    • Hate to disappoint you, but there is not a 28th Amendment to the Constitution waiting to be ratified. I agree there should be, but there is no proposal at this time.

  318. Congress don"t give a damn about veterans , look at the wounded can.t

    even get proper care, look at the homeless vet's. We can voice till red in the face

    they just don't care.

  319. require all politicians to have at least 4 years of military with our awesome benifits.
    tie there annual cost of living to the military so when they vote 1% for the military they also get only 1% instead of 1% for military and 35% for congress.
    make them take a 50% of there base pay when they leave office.
    make them for there health and dental insurance when they done there term.
    oh yes and for sure make them move to a different state or country every 2 years.
    make them do 18 hour days for 6 to 8 months every year and make them live in the worst part of the town or country instead of in a mansion.
    that is just for starters i am sure there are many other things that would save country much money and get the vets points across

  320. Charles Emery says:

    I think that this plan should be applied to Congress first, studied for 20-30 years to see how it works out and then we'll talk about applying it to the military. And no, I'm not a retired military person….but I have friends who are and they earned far more than they will ever collect.

  321. Carzell Lott says:

    I”m a retired serviceman with 39y 8m 22d this country will never pay me for the time I served,
    now just pay me for what I have done and I myself will do my own investment for what I want.
    Do try to push anything on me like when I was serving< I had no choice then but now I doo, so leave my money alone. Use your own.

  322. Steve Wallace says:

    'Bidness' as usual.

  323. P. DeChirico says:

    I don't agree with the changes. I spent over 40yrs without my family because of my military job and locations. I earned my retirement pay and don't need some goofball fooling around with it. My wife and I live within our means and that money is making it payday to payday. Civilians pay structure is different for a reason they have other means to increase their cost of living.

  324. these politicians will never cut into their retirement package. we are always one of the first ones to get benefits cut along with ss and medicare. all of us in the military and our families need to UNITE, UNITE, UNITE and VOTE THEM ALL OUT IN 2012. we have to spread the word. get them all out in 2012!!!!!! we can only do it if we do unite. strength in numbers. we need to let the politicians know that we are sick and tired of their selfish, self serving attitudes. they act like pius people, holier than thou, but in fact they are incompetent, lack compassion, and think they are our saviors. we need to let them know that is not true and we are not going to take it any more. VOTE THEM ALL OUT IN 2012!!!!! STARTING AT THE VERY TOP.!!!!!!!!!!

  325. Carl Wilcox says:

    I am a retired disabled vet, with 21 years in the USMC. The retirement I receive, I EARNED. The Government could save money by putting Congress on the SAME PAY SCALE as the military. They don't deserve the retirements they receive with the health plans that are not available to the American People. It is time to elect people that are dedicated to looking out for OUR country instead of their greedy motivations.

  326. lloyd l white says:

    LLOYD I would lik to make a comment to all of this.. I am a 25 year U.S.M.C. VET. Lost my hearing while in vietnam. Started my carier at 99.00 a month retired at 1200 a month. Through all of this I spent 25 years looking for a retirement. Now you take away everything we as military men and women fought for. it stopes at the DOD MC CAIN and all the rest. Cut there pay see how they would like it .Leave us alone. We worked hard for what we deserve. look at yourself DOD when cutting our pay and insurence. would you cut your own?

  327. Isn't this a breach of contract? I served 20 yrs and retired in 2004 as an ITC.
    My retirement certainly isn't enough to live on, but it pays my mortgage. Imagine the foreclosures from this cute little move to redistribute funds to something else Congress thinks is more important. They say military retirement pay is a "sacred cow" and it should be because it was PROMISED to us. While we were serving we had to adhere to different rules and regulations than the civilian population because we took an oath and PROMISED to abide by these rules. In exchange for the sacrifices we freely made we had the pride and satisfaction of knowing we served our country and had a nice benefit package we could count on because it was PROMISED to us. Everyone knows the real "sacred cows" are politician's benefit packages and corporate profit margins. It's been a long time since this country had some serious civil unrest – maybe that's what is needed.

  328. OK – changes might have many advantages AND many disadvantages. However, the question that comes to mind is how the members of congress will have their plans altered? After all, we pay retired military 60 years for serving 20?? How about we pay members of congress and supply numerous benefits for a lifetime just for serving any amount of years. My Grandfather, two Uncles, my Father, my Husband (who died from Agent Orange exposure), and my Son – all served, all veterans of conflict. None of them have (or had) 60 years of pay with additional benefits.
    Vote 'EM out now!!!!

  329. For all the people who don't think the military deserve this benefit, how about letting the Military Unionize and when they to send them to war.

    The Military Union gets to vote to see if they feel like it or go on strike.

    How's that for a wake up call for all you people who don't think the military retirement system should be left alone and instead cut every federal/state/city/local employee benefit first.

  330. Lost benefits vet says:

    In answer to we EARNED it Yes we did but we also entered into a contract. We allowed them to use our bodies and life as they saw fit and in return they agreed to benefits if we were injured or disabled.

    Also as well as compensating us for harsh condition 24 hour a day service to our job. Being without our families and extended periods of isolation as well as life threatening situations due to combat or job related.

    The Civilian world if asked to due this as a part of their job description would say that it was crazy or insane. The only other groups of people who also share these risks are Police, Firemen and all forms of Law enforcement. They receive the same type of benefits but at a much higher pay rate. Maybe they should pay us at the same scale and see what that does to the Nation Debit.

    The tax payers and the Government get a real BARGAIN with using us and our lives.

    • Please read up on the FERS-Law Enforcement (the Federal retirement system for Federal Law Enforcement, to include FBI and DEA). They earn 1.7%/year accrual, vested at 5 years, eligible to draw at age 62. If they serve 20 years, they can retire at age 50. For that they contribute cash to the retirement fund, and pay SS.

      Yes, the taxpayer WOULD get a bargain if we get put under FERS-LE.

  331. Yes, we DID earn our retirement. For those of you who don't feel that we earned the benefits that we receive after our commitment is completed, I say, HOW DARE YOU! If you were not willing to go and serve for your own country and see how it feels to go without your family to a foreign land where a foreign language is spoken and often times where Americans are not much welcomed, then I say, HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN about a little bit of retirement pay to keep us going in our golden age and about a medical plan that pays for all that went wrong to our bodies because of our service to our GREAT nation? We went through financial woes, family disruptions and alienations, holidays and birthdays alone, all while we are REQUIRED BY CONTRACT BY AND WITH OUR GOVERNMENT to do everything we are instructed to do, day or night, 24/7. Don't come on our website complaining about how this nation is out of sorts on its overwhelming debt. The debt comes from MISMANAGEMENT of funds, not a mismanagement of military personnel. Get a handle on this: RESTRUCTURE from the TOP. That's what all the big companies do when they get in over their head. They refigure what they can pay, throw out all the top dogs that don't really need to be there and, voila! They're now saving lots of money in pay and benefits. They NEVER go back on their retirees or their current employees and force them to take less than what was promised at the time of the beginning of their contracts. It's ILLEGAL to do so.

    • Harry M. Pieper says:

      Great write up! Harry M. Pieper SFC (R). might add that during my service, divorced twice. Pay is based on grade, E-1, E-2, E-4, E-4, did not and could not support the needs of a family of two, then three, then 4 persons. Why not pay congress the same for their service starting with an E-1 pay and then review their service record for promotions to the next pay grade for starters! See how many would due 20.

      • I would at least waited till I was an E-4 to get married I know it seems ironic in my statement in my best case I made E-5 when I transfered to my first shore duty command through the star program but I had more then 40k in savings from 1986-1993 when I got married
        spent it in less then a year but where am going at is that young men and women alike think they are going to extra money or make rank faster then a strike of lighting 99 precent of miitary folk go into mass debt thinking they are a player for an example there was this chief both him and his wife mad chief when he found out his wife spent 400 dollars on a dress he told her to return it and get one for a 100
        and after she used it she put it on EBAY I told my wife I don't make alot of money and we were very tight our tax return or any extra money we come into we treated ourselves I hope you get remarried and be frugal
        in thailand my i bought my wife a dress for 40 dollars it was her birthday gift and xmass gift she even stated if is ok I said yes but we won't buy the 200 dollar dress

    • Many American workers earn their retirement; however, it was taken away from them after working 20 to 40 years. If you go to a foreign country, then you should at least try to learn the people, their culture and speak their language with an open mind instead of a close mind.

      Furthermore, many of you veterans hate government while at the same time taking government pay and benefits. You guys and gals are hypocrities. Moreover, when you get a job in the private or public sector job, you spend much of your time knocking down the unions even though you get better pay thanks to the unions. Now you know what the American workers had to deal with for the 31 years. Welcome to the real world of the American work.

      • active duty 12 says:

        Hypocrities humm I take it that you do not know anybody that served the military then. I will tell you this for some the military vetrans on here that have served or still serving. I stand with you, but for like a certain individual I stand against you. I am in the military for 11 years, my father served 26 years in US Marines. How dare you talk bad about the women and men that served their country and gave everything they had.

    • By the way, many Americans can't join the military due to a variety of reasons such phyiscal and mental disabilities, so you can't not accuse them of not servicing in the miltiary when it was not their fault particularly when their ailments came from the systematic polluation of the land, air, and water by the corporations and/or lack of affordable health care in this country.

      It maybe illegal pn what the big companies are doing; however, this is what happens when you have a government that is in the back pocket of corporations aided and abetted by military servicemen and ex-servicemen who suppost the laisse faire attitude of the corporations and rich people.

    • robert vazquez says:

      Im a recent retired vet I agree totally what you say ; I served 2tours in iraq , 2 afghanistan , and before that desert storm , and Im from the common wealth of puerto rico a territory of the us in the caribean ; we have so called americans that talk the talk , but are not willing to walk the walk in serving this great nation of ours , to those vets that sacrificed god bless , and for those so called americans that never serve go bleep yourself , these vets sacrified alot you would not understand what it means to go to war.

    • This is the thinking of OBAMA he thinks and other civilian thinks that the military and any portion of it is the sole cause of our debt which is bull shit
      anyway thank god am grandfathered or I will sue under the 14th admendment pesnsions both govenment and military are protected under the 14th admendmeant I will myself will sue under this admendmeant and yes I will name every member of congress and the president and vice president in the law suit not mention I will claim on my tax deduction under the theft and loss portion the value of my pension from age 46-100 which will amount too a total of 500k over that period of time based on reciving 1240 per month and my va disability at a base rate of 1026 which 2266 take home per month which is a big slump of change and yes you can sue the government if you can sue the SSA you can sue anyone

  332. When I joined the service in 1960 I didn't go in because of beatiful retirement package when I finished. I stayed 20 years because I was proud to serve and felt like I made a difference. Obviously I am grateful for the benefits I EARNED through years of separation from my family, serving in combat, and accomplishing a lot of work in keeping our country strong through a strong Military. I would have been hard pressed to agree to the loneliness, isolation, stress, hardship and the likelihood of becoming a casualty of war had I did my 4 years and came out into the civilian world. I would have told my bosses to kiss my ***. I earned my retiement and benefits along with all the rest of the sevice members who may have to take it in the shorts because the people in charge "in't been there, done that and ain't got the tee shirt."Our Own Mr. McCain may have done his part, But he isn't threatened by this because he is protected as a congressman whos bennies are't up for grabs. I really wish We would unite against this garbage while I'm still alive enough to help.

  333. Calvin Williams says:

    Well, if you keep chipping away at this benefit you will not have a military to worry about. All empires fall and this is a start to that end!

  334. Why would a system be concerned about those who serve "less" than 20 yrs? Why would the military be concerned about comparing a pension or retirement incentive compared to that of Federal Employees? Why? How does the Federal Employee compare to that of an active duty member (on a 24 hr comparison? Yes, a Federal Employee comes to work and what not, but does that Federal Employee endure the same rigorous activities/duties as an active duty member? Is someone unhappy about their unplanned retirement status compared to that of a planned retirement status that active duty members invest in, that motivated him/her to instigate into our personal matters? Join and enjoy for 20 yrs, then come back and see if you stil have the same stance on the issue!!!!!

    • A simple focus on the job/work requirements of members of the military should convince all but the "dimmest bulbs" in Congress that there can be no comparison between miltary service and "other" federal government employment. First there is the "danger" component. No other form of government employment, with the possible exception of law enforcement officers and fire fighters (the vast majority of which are state, county or municipal employees anyway – who by the way typically DO have a "20 Year" retirement plan of some sort), face the threat of death/grievous injury that miltary members are exposed to when deployed to a combat zone.

    • However, even if you put that argument aside, show me one form of government employment, be it local, state, or federal where the employee has no limits on work hours, i.e., no overtime, comp time, etc. As a member of the military, you do what you are told regardless of the number of hours involved. There is no holiday pay or "time and a half" for extra work. We call that getting your job done, or, when it is outside of your typical work assignment, a collateral duty.
      For example, when underway aboard the good ship USS Surface Combatant, Petty Officer Jones has to maintain the equipment that his or her division is responsible to take care of AND stand watch for some number of hours each day, maybe as much as eight out of every twenty four hours. When in port, there are also going to be duty days when Petty Officer Jones stays on board for twenty four hours, regardless of whether this "duty day" falls on a weekend or other holiday.
      Bottom line, military service is unique and that alone merits a different type of retirement system than the one that covers other federal government employees.

  335. cntryboy85 says:

    i think what is going to end up happening is that they are going to pass this "civilian" sector retirement policy then we are going to go from 110% manning to 50% manning. which is going to be great for advancement but it is going to show congress that they screwed up and lost the top 10% of the military. i read some where that "the military's job is to fight wars. that has been and always will be the job of a young man/woman." i disagree you need people that have been in for a while. we have seen things understand situations better. i am a engineman if you keep replacing my rate every 4 years then you have some one who probably has no clue how to fix a engine. then you dont get underway and then those young men/women cant fight the fight. what is sad is that was posted by a ret-col from the army

  336. What do all of you expect from a country that uses their military, then always forgets them when it's time to pay the bill.I belived them when they promise in contract to provid free medical care for life if I served 20 years.After several conflicks,a loss of two marriges,a plate in my wrist, a replaced sholder a replaced ankle, a pacemaker. I have a back injury that can't be repaired.I've never left the jungle have you. I was spit at ,cused at when I got home,but I didn't comeplain . Others were in worse shape.Icompleted my militery .After that I looked and saw the goverment strip ssan,set a winfall tax..give other goverment trillions of dollars and still doing so. SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. Why would the govern use their brain now? They can so why not. whose going to stop them. No one listen, no one wanted to do anything.
    Thank s ED

    • old granny says:

      ED you are so right my husband was in Veitnam during agent orange and now has medical conditions cause from that. Not only was he treat like a dog by the Government also the protestors when he came home wounded he was only 17 years old when he went in and came back physically wounded and mentally it makes me sick to know that Americans would treat our military people who went through hell over there. He has been trying to get his benefits from agent orange and they have dragged it on for over 2 years now and they keep putting it off, it took 5 months to get the papers I guess they want you dead before you can get anything.

  337. We don't make cars in the Military. It is not a Business.
    It is Mission Driven, not profit driven.

  338. Our govt. doesn't care for those of us that gave up so much of our freedoms to go on deployments and be separated from our family members. We are the ones who are deserving of those benefits that the govt. said it would give us. But the people in the govt. are a bunch of self-severing individuals.

    • And to top it off I don't see the goverment doing away with their retirement.

    • You have people in the private sector that are a bunch of self-serving individuals and many people in the miltary (a government agency) are self-serving individuals.

  339. This article's plan is obviously flawed & neither would or should ever get passed… However, the need for a retirement overhaul is an obvious one. Any system that doesn't account for changes (like life expectancy increases in this case) will eventually need modification. When the avg lifespan was 60 a person could retire with 20yrs service and expect to collect mil retirement for 15-25 yrs (based on payments till somewhere between age 53-67). Over time, an increased lifespan caused that expectation for yrs collecting retirement pay to go up to around 25-35 yrs and then to 35-45 yrs. Current medical advances make it more likely now that someone just starting their mil career will easily live into their 90's or 100's. That means 60-65 yrs of retirement pay for 20yrs of service. I'm sorry but at some point you should be able to realize that this doesn't make any sense.

    At some point along the line (whether it was at the 25-30, 35-45, or current 60-65 yr period of retirement payout), you have to see that an adjustment is "eventually" needed. My friends, "eventually" has definitely passed and this revamp is long overdue…

    One possible change is below. Anyone currently in retirement would be completely unaffected. During the transition, everyone already serving could choose between the current or new system. People leaving with a disability retirement or service connected disabilities would receive benefits as they currently do.

    Potential New System:
    Upon 20yr "active" retirement you:
    1) Get immediate medical, space A, base privileges, etc. Basically, everything "but" retirement pay. By itself, this is a huge benefit if you think about it rationally.
    2) You are allowed to choose either *A) start collecting 50% pay at age 65 "or" B) collect 20% retirement immediately with a raise to 30% at age 65.

    Upon 20yr "reserve" retirement you:
    1) Same as above .
    2) You are allowed to choose either *A) start collecting 40% pay at age 65 "or" B) collect 10% retirement immediately with a raise to 25% at age 65.

    With >10yrs but <20yrs military service (at least 5 of those yrs on active duty) you:
    1) Are eligible for 15% retirement pay starting at age 65.

    * In both 20+ retirement systems, each additional yr would add 1% to your retirement pay (i.e. 40yrs service yields 70% or 60% pay depending on an active or reserve retirement).

    Btw, yes I am military. Right is right, no matter what your connection to a particular issue. This is an issue we need to realistically, logically, and rationally address in a non visceral manner.

    Semper Fi

    • The only part I disagree with is the difference between retirement for "active" and "reserve" they may not do the military as a "job" all year like active members do but they are still deployed as much if not more so than "active" service members. My husband is on his second deployment in 3 years and from the numbers I've been told (by the army) more than half of those currently deployed are "reserve" so why should they be deserving of less than those who are "active"?

    • Bet you're an officer. Or got money in the bank.

  340. Question: With all of these idiotic pledges being signed by politicians, why isn't there a pledge to not cut into the military retirement system? That is, why doesn't MOAA or one of the other military lobbyist organizations follow Grover Norquist's strategy of painting politicians in a corner through a pledge? As long as these great political leaders of ours keep signing these pledges (once the obviously racist stuff is pulled out that is) why not twist their arms and make them sign a pledge with a catchy title like "The Veteran Protection Pledge?"

  341. These two unjust and illegal wars are costing us 3 to 4 trillion $. Why don't we just stop doing things like that? They have caused us to be less safe, not more safe. Some will say, "We can't just pull out!!!" That is pure bull-shit! If you are doing something wrong……just stop it!!!!!

    • Why not start revamping how the government operates? I wouldn't put the blame on the military, put the blame where it should be. The people running this great country into the ground. They are the ones in the wrong!!!!

  342. The average service member who stays in up to 20 years would not live to see there retirement or enjoy it.. Congress needs to stop being selfish.

  343. active duty 12 says:

    I am in the military now. I have 11 yrs in. My dad served 26 yrs in the military and drew his retirement on the old system. Nobody says stay in the military for 20 plus years if you want that is fine. The 401K is not enough money to take live on. Think about if you a family , a few kids or just a house well that 401k just went up in smoke. Every year taxes out grow what ever retirement that is out. Also since when does anyone who served less than 20 years get to draw retirement.

  344. Why are the civilian jobs being outsourced………because of the greedy union pricks who do minimun wage work, but get rocket scientist pay, just for standing on an assembly line and screwing in a couple of bolts here and there for eight hours a day.

  345. I believe that the Military deserves all they get, THEY WENT, to fight YOUR Wars, the ones that you (people who complain) were too afraid to fight. How dare McCain agree with Obama about the cuts. YOU CAN FORGET MY VOTE BUDDY!!! UUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMM are you giving up your BENEFITS Mr. McCain???? Yeah, sure!!!!

  346. A lot of the guys who actually see combat (i.e. DESERVE the cushy benefits of a military retirement the MOST) do not end up serving 20 years. The military chews them up and spits them out to the morass of the VA. Meanwhile, someone that will never be fired upon in their lives gets a full pension, just for having stuck it out for 20 years. Not fair in the least…

    • WTF do you know about it? Have you ever even read the constitution? It's clear you've never sworn an oath to defend it. Butt wipe.

    • you only get 50 precent at high 3 so if your pay is 2500 base at 17 years of service plus any pay raise you still get the 17 year pay marker anyway
      my take home retirement is only 1240 it has taken me nearly 7 years to get that and am 10 dollars short because i give the st of ca that for taxes
      the only real cushy is that you have to be an 04 on reitrement an admrial gen and yes an E9 with 30 are banking 1240 in los angeles won't cover the rent thank god am able to rent a room from my sister in law and am working aetting 10 an hour which is nothing that is keeping me afloat

  347. Welcome to my new blog. I hope you will enjoy your stay.

  348. Here we go trying to do what some other country is doing….Quiet as it's kept the rumble about converting to a 401k like system is very similar to what the German Army ( and others) does for its career soldiers. However, in attempt to set the record straight, what the American soldier gets is not a pension when he or she retires-it is half salary! We don't draw a "pension" until age 62. Civilians almost make improper comparisons. When we retire at twenty years we still can be recalled to active duty. No civilian I know of incurs that risk.

    • you are recalled for a 10 year period after seperation from service that is if you are not medical retired nor you are rated 50precent or higher but go ahead and recall me a big pay raise for both for being on active duty and an increase in retirement works both way and a big thank you…..

  349. This is a follow-on to the above. Further, unless you retire at the pay grade of O4 or higher you will have to have a second income to live reasonably well. Also don;t forget that "retire military" also includes thought that are medically retired as well. The bottom-line is that many of us (enlisted in particular) are living longer than a certain group of &%$#holes thought we ever would. Now we have become an economic liability vs a situation that regulated itself, i.e., a certain percentage of us died before we collected enough ret pay to make A difference. The mil retirement plan is working-don't screw with it!

  350. Actually, the average US Congress person retirement if they serve for 20 years is just over $61,000 per year. Not including the social security they paid in at a rate of 6.2%.

  351. I wonder the legality of the changes being proposed. I entered the military under a contract. If my contracted is changed immediately, is that a breach of agreement? If so, I believe a grandfather clause is necessary. If not, I guess I've fought 20 years for the wrong freedoms.
    Also, I believe another issue is at hand. Two 10 year wars are waged and now the military service is being attacked. The last few years we've had a number of near Government closures and each time the military is threaten. We're being told that we don't have the money in this economy. Yet Congress does not speak of decreasing their benefits. Nor will you hear them declare a decrease in their pay raises. A Congressman can serve 10 years on the Hill, put this country in a strategic mess and receive a lifetime of benefits. We on the other hand received an empty "thank you for your service" and a number of threats to our heathcare and retirement. My 2 cent is that we're asking the wrong questions. Should our system be modified? Yes. At the extent being offered? NO Should the military continue to sacrifice while others continue to avoid the call?

    • Unless things have changed since I retired, if you read your contract it doesn't say much of anything about what sort of retirement you will receive.

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