Report Compares Military and Civilian Pay

January 27, 2011 | Terry Howell

A January 20, 2011 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that military personnel are paid more than most federal civilian employees. The CBO report, which was requested by Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), attempts to compare regular military compensation (base pay, basic allowance for subsistence, and basic allowance for housing) with the federal cash compensation (salary and overtime).

Several news sources and blogs have picked up the fact that the CBO report indicates that a typical servicemember is paid more than 75 percent of “comparable federal civilian” workers. Some are using the CBO report to support the arguement that the military is paid too much.

Specifically, the report states that the “median for enlisted personnel in 2010 exceeded cash compensation for most federal civilian employees with a high school degree and perhaps some college education.” In addition, the report’s author writes, “median cash compensation for enlisted personnel was at least as high as the 75th percentile of earnings for federal workers with comparable work experience.” The findings were similar for military officers when compared to their counterparts.

But is the comparison fair?
Many federal civilian workers may correctly argue that they serve in harms way alongside active duty members and have comparable circumstances. However, the CBO appears to see it otherwise. In fact, the final section of the report lists the factors which make comparing the two compensation systems difficult. Not the least of which are what the report refers to as the “intangibles.” These intangibles include frequent relocations, deployments, greater responsibility at earlier career points, and hazardous working conditions, not to mention the unlimited work hours (24/7 on call). The report’s author states that quantifying those intangible elements among military and federal civilians is “extremely difficult.”

Note: The report also mentions the combat factor, but combat related compensation was not included in the direct cash comparison.

Why the report and why now?
Some speculate that the request for the report may be related to Rep. Hoyer’s call late last year to freeze military pay  along with federal civilian pay. Hoyer has declined to indicate where he may head next; according to a spokesperson from Hoyer’s office, the congressman is not ready to make any judgment yet.

Read more about Hoyer’s original call to freeze military pay.

Read the full CBO report:
Analysis of Federal Civilian and Military Compensation.

Comments

  1. I have been from E1 to E5 during 3 enlisted years including 12 months in Vietnam, later I went 01 to 05 with tours during ODS and OIF. I have also been up the civil service ranks from GS07 to GS12. So folks I have the background to say I know both systems. During my GS years I carried a badge and a gun and arrested folks who didn't want to be arrested. Now, since both military and civilian careers are not analogous I suggest that all my fellow retirees back off being critical of Steny Hoyer. Concentrate on the entire Federal budget crisis. Scope the roots of the crisis out. We have hugh war debts because the Republican President who took us to Afghanistan and Iraq didn't want to raise taxes to pay for the true cost of the war. As soon as the first air strike took place in Afghanistan and later Iraq the U.S. public should have been levied a cost of war tax. Also President G.W. Bush should have been getting Hollywood types and wounded vets to go out on War Bond drives just like in WW2. So my fellow retirees don't rant about Steny Hoyer, rant about "W" who wanted guns and butter and low taxes all at the same time. OBTW, did you think that the high pay all Officers, Warrants, Senior NCOs and compared to RVN junior enlisted received came from the tooth fairy? No it came from money "W" borrowed from China and other foreign nations who bought U.S. Treasury Obligations.

    • Go fuck yourself you liberal piece of shit

    • Bob Violette says:

      Hey LTC,
      I can appreciate the breadth of your experience, but most of your email is a rambling about the fact that you think GW screwed people over. I too am retired, E9 MCPO with the Navy. I am now a GS-13. I can see that there are some pay differences and think that the Military has in fact been the benifit of large pay scale increases over the last 20 years, higher than any other group (civilian or GS). The pay difference from enlisted and Officer are too large and teh officers pay should be reduced and spread to increase the pay of junior enlisted. The SCNO are continually doing the work of the Junior Officers and that leaves JO's with too much time to kill. Time to focus on all personnel and not the QOL of Officers.

      • Bob,
        Well put. I can't agree more. The gap between enlisted and officers is too large of a margin. I'm a MCPO, still active and have seen for years Junior Officers (not all, but a good amount) ride on the backs of enlisted crew that ensures mission success. A freeze on miltary pay is not the answer to over come the mountain of government debt. Why should any of us suffer when we are less than 2% of the wealthly. That 2% does create jobs and should not suffer either,but they should team with government processes because a good amount of the present congress don't have a clue and brings no value or solutions to the table when it comes to people's QOL, economic issues, and the importance of have an iron fist military power. You want to save money, start with Congress.

    • Mr Furley says:

      Stimpy Hoyer is a damned fool who cares what he thinks?

    • officersareworhtless says:

      get off your knees, obama doesn't read these blogs

    • Sir I too am a vet with 3 tours in Nam .A place I can thank for making me a disabled vet.And I am also a retired GS-12.First sir you need to stop your liberalism attitude and look at the whole picture.When you do you will see it is virtually impossible to compare the pay of military vs.civilian counterparts.Step back and be realistic

    • 3WarLTC you on point, regardless of what other may want to think. All these comparisions originate from the budget deficit and what we need to cut (or add) to reduce it. Many have forgotten that President Bush inherited a surplus budget. But that was lost when we entered a second war front with Iraq and then had a major tax cuts in 2003, the same year we engaged with Iraq. In essence, we fought another war front from borrowing from other countries and paying higher interest on the loan which makes them richer and the US tax payer poorer, except the wealthy who were granted a tax reprieve from paying the same tax percentages as ordinary Americans.

      Now the topic is what do we cut from the budget and that is what all the analysis is all about. The first thing we need to think about is reversing the massive tax cuts. Or we can just decide to keep having major deficits and let all Americans pay 16 to 20 percent on their federal taxes. We have to fix to the mess that was created earlier or this financial situation will be the norm from now on.

    • You are misinformed, there was a Democratic majority in congress under Mr. Bush. You might also want to look into the percentages of holders of US Treasury obligations – you would probably be surprised at how much is held by US individuals and institutions. Where did that rant about RVN soldiers come from? If you really are a retired LTC and served alongside me in that war so long ago, you certainly must know that Mr. Bush wasn't president back then. Two Democrat presidents (Kennedy and Johnson) were the holders of the office during that time, and it was finally ended under the direction of Republican President Richard Nixon. I would also suggest that you get over your hatred of President George W. Bush; his 8 years in office ended quite some time ago. By the way, LTC, since you are obviously concerned with the growing national debt, I know that you are happy that a Federal judge ruled Obama-care unconstitutional today – if that aberration isn't stopped the current national debt will soon look like chump change!!

      • Pappy Denton says:

        The Democrats had a majority only in the House by 5 votes in 2007 to the end of the Bush term.. The Senate was controlled by the republicans his entire period as President.
        Bush's term ended in January 2009—–not so long ago. He is responsible for the meltdown of this economy and the loss of several million jobs.
        You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your made up facts.

      • Right on Wayne. Give it to 'em.

      • WilliamAF20 says:

        But, the president avoided going to Congress for approval to go to war initially. And, once there, it would have been political suicide for the Congress to deny "supporting the troops". Congress had no choice but to continue the unfunded war.

    • Let srevisit the former selective service laws and institute a required national service requirement. At that point your arguement MAY have some validity. Freedom is a right protected by ALL who serve (military and civilian), but military personel must forfeit many of their basic rights in order to serve – Veterans holidays – on call 24/7/365 throughout their enlistment and beyond officers indefinately. Continually transitioning from posting to posting. Leaving their families behind to defend all of us friend, family, stranger and even foe in our lands.
      Comparative analogies are illogical and cannnot be accurately measured. The stress of being in places of hostility under fire by fanatics usually with little regard for their fellow human beings, without loved ones and not fighting for flag, honor,country, our politics or any other of those feel good warm and fuzzy phrases people through out, but fighting and sacrificing with all the training and knowledge to attempt to get themselves and their team,section,squad,platoon and even themselves home just to make be allowed to enjoy the freedoms they gave so much for that the majority of our nation simply take for granted.

      • Hoyer and the rest of his democratic brethren have no regard for the difficulties of service life or actual GS life in their marbled halls and protected suites.
        I am speaking as a retired U.S. Army First Sergeant (E-8) as well as a former U.S. Army civilian employee GS-9-13 physical security specialist and firmly believe that those soldiers carying the burden of work and are exposed to the ultimate dangers are not paid enough especially with the outrageous gap between experienced soldoer and newly commissioner officer and warrant officer. Senior officers are definately out of the scale, but alligning civilian salary would be counterproductive, those inordinate monies paid to flag officers should be spend in proportion to experience of those junior enlisted.
        Your entire Presidency arguement is crap. If in fact you had joined us in Vietnam and somehow have been still active to perform in OEF or OIF (which seems a bit flighty) you know that the Presidency does not just declare war without our legislatures affirmative vote. By the way, more than 70% of your sitting democrats (including our commander-in-chief) have never known military or real government service by any means.

        • Most of Ronald Reagan, Bush, Senior, and Bush, Jr., top cabinet officials never serve in the military and most of them tried to avoid military service at all costs. Even if some serve in the military, they tried to avoid going to Vietnam like Bush, Jr., getting a coveted position in the Air Guard to avoid getting shot at over the skies of North Vietnam and Ronald Reagan avoided going to the front lines during World War II. I guess the Hollywood style spoiled him too much.

          Nowadays, you have too many Republicans who have never known military service. Furthermore, you have too many business people running for office who have never done a day of government service. Even if they did some kind of government service, it was a high paying political appointee job. None of these guys and gals ever work in the rank and file government positions.

          The pay disparity between workers and the CEOs have never been greater in this country since the 1920s. We are now going to know how our grandfathers, great grandfathers, and great great grandfathers lived back in those days on a little slave wage.

    • You may have been on both sides of this study but you forget the crooked acounting from the CBO. They have stacked the numbers forever.
      They compare civil service and the military why not compare military against non government jobs? There you will get a better comparison. While you are at it why do military members quailify for government assistance because they cannot afford to by food and need assistance for housing? If they want to freeze pay how about they cut congress' pay and benifits and put them under the civil service program. Take away their great pention plan and put them on social security.
      How about they cut off all benifits to illegals? How about the stop paying anything to the UN and stop all foreign aid.
      Don't insult the readers of this by saying we need to help the poor in foreign countries. How much money gets to the "poor" and how much stays with the governments?

      • Congress *is already* under the civil service system for retirement and health care. Read up on FERS and FEHB.

    • I too have been up the ladder on both sides as an enlisted man and as a GS employee. The biggest difference was as a GS employee if I got tired of it I could walk, as a military member that was not an option.

    • TED -66-VIET says:

      Bush and the rest of the chicken hawks in his administration also are responsible for the $6,000,000,000. Bremer "lost " in Iraq , when they shipped in shrink wrapped pallets of $100 bills.

    • Scot Nelson says:

      I am a vet that served in the last 25 wars, I am Obama brother-in-law, Hoyer's sister, Kennedy’s son, an officer, an enlisted soldier, a general, a GS 15, a reserve SES. I was there when they destroyed Obama birth certificate. Believe me? Thought not. Nor is 3warLTC believable. He is a wantabe. We have all seen his type in our years of service. Just ignore him.

      • Bigsargekas says:

        If his "credentials" were the same, and his outlook was that of your conservatist belief; then you'd totally agree with him. So how about you take your ignorant, biased way elsewhere Nelson. Be ignored.

    • Pappy Denton says:

      You are right on with your commentary 3WarLTC. I too spent 3 tours in Nam flying off carriers as a Naval Flight Officer and later worked as a GS-12. What you are seeing in the remarks here are the result of millions of dollars spent to re-write history and twist facts. These people have been heavily influenced by the right wing radio and TV media and they have allowed their thinking to be taken over to the point they actually believe George W. Bush had nothing to do with crashing the economy of this nation and it was all the fault of Obama. Notice how they have been brainwashed to believe providing health care for their fellow Americans is a bad idea. They actually think that forcing our business people to furnish health care for all Americans is a good idea. No thought is given to the fact that first, the United States is the only industrialized nation in the world to force their business people to do this thus putting them at a strong disadvantage in competing in the world markets.. Secondly, this creates a hodge podge health care system where all kinds of levels of health care is provided at usually very high co-pays to people who cannot afford to pay it or no health care insurance is offered at all resulting in millions of our fellow Americans being without health care. They will tell you they are against government run health care but when you ask them if they are on Medicare or use the VA most will tell you they do with the explanation that "they earned that" even though VA is a pure 100% run health care system where all the doctors, nurses, etc., hospitals, clinics, offices are all government owned and run. Of course Medicare is also a government run health care system. But, none of this matters as their twisted logic allows them to believe that it is OK for them to use government run health care but no one else has that right.

      • Pappy, excluding the military tell me what the government truly excels at? And you now have no problem with turning over 16%+ of the economy (healthcare) over to the government and expect it to be done efficiently? I could scrape up some wonderful land here in Louisiana to sell you. If you truly believe that providing every American quality health care is viable, then you have missed the discussion. Quality health care is available in Canada under their National Health Care system as long as you don't die or your illness isn't severe, but if you need a cure quickly, what Canadians do is cross the border and pay for care in the U.S. If Obamacare isn't defeated, the economy will suffer and healthcare of Americans in general will suffer.

    • This is a stupid rant about the war and Pres Bush. The military should be paid more than the Civilian employees. You don't see many of the b'crats in DC working at midnight. And if they do work at night, they don't have to hide behind their desk to avoid getting shot or worry about their desk getting shot down. As a matter of fact, don't stand near the door of any federal building at quitting time, you might get crushed by the stampede. I lived in the DC area for 33 years and was also in the Navy Reserve during most of that time. I have seen it first hand.

    • David Miller says:

      Why pee off the audience with "W" bashing. Your point is spot on. We fought two wars and passed the bill to the next generation. Don't blame all the debt on the wars though. CHeck the math. Most of it is driven by domestic spending. Let's shed our party affiliation and fix this lethal debt issue!

    • What a fool you are,
      Still banging Bush?
      Bet youwere neve in military at all if yes E2 at best

    • Let's be careful here or we could end up back in the James Earl Carter years when Military was gutted by the Congressional Underfunding and enlisted men were on food stamps. The underfunding caused the navy to shorten overhauls on our submarines and we lost the Scorpion.
      The Congress quit aiding South Vietnam. We had to endure the sordid evacuation of Saigon/HoChiMinh City and then watch the murder of a million of our friendlies by the North. Then Cambodia invented the killing fields as the dominoes in SE Asia started falling.
      Then our Annapolis trained Nuclear Engineer listened to the State Department & started pulling our$$ and support from leaders friendly to us with any Human rights issues. This led to the oil crisis, the Russians moving into Afghanistan, and 12.5% mortgage loans as a bonus to the gas lines.
      Oh, the sweaters in the oval office, trying to run the Iranian rescue from the situation (eight dead two helicopters destroyed in the desert) and the inflation rates.
      Those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end! Now Obama the Hoyer are trying to bring them back again!

    • I could be wrong, but you sound more like an anti-war or anti-anything not Liberal. The 1990's had major budget cuts that allowed military housing to crumble under our feet, vehicles & other vital equipment piled up in the motor pools for lack of funds. People like Hoyer have little respect for the military & cut it's budget @ any cost. I enlisted from 1988-1996 & deployed to ODS & know first hand how bad the budget cuts were. Unless you considered the flowers planted @ the entrances of all Military bases and Unit Headquarters to please the politicians & their dog and pony shows, unfortunately they only made it to the parade grounds & the mess hall for a meal, If it wasn't a private catered affair. The military budget is bloated & could be cut, but to have politicians like Hoyer do it is idiotic @ best. Allow the Services to & allow them to cut lawmakers pet projects inserted for votes. But in my opinion, the military should make the same, if not more than the do nothing idiots sending them to fight our wars.

    • When the people in Congress stop voting themselves a pay raise every year when they live off of expense accounts and don't have the same expenses the rest of us do then I'll stop calling them morons and being on their cases rather then listen to people that say it's the presidents fault. I'm no fan of our last president or our current one. If a tax and war bonds were what was needed then Congress has a way to pass it even if the president don't want it. It's time for all the fat politicians to get off their rears and do what they were elected to do, and that is represent the people and not their own individual interests.

    • Nice to hear the truth for a change. Fight wars that are not related to the defense of the nation and is turn put our children and grandchildren in debt. I have to say that many political decisions are for the sake of politics and not for the long term health of our nation.
      MLinLC Sergeant Major USMC

    • stoneypiper says:

      Before I run off with my opinion of ANYONE who thinks enlisted young people are overpaid, thankyou for serving and being the tip of the spear protecting this country when many civilians lost site of what service members do. OK.. Hey I am glad the MAGIC Life Fairy worked your way.. That is NOT Always the case!! Vietnam service time is alot different then today. Today's enlisted can't retire E-5 in some services, which is ok because the world turns and time changes. But today most service members will NEVER have your Magic Life Fairy turn their lives out ok. Most won't get a chance past 8 years not even close to your O-5 level of pay. try and be young today with dreams of being a career military person. Those who serve won't even get a chance at being a GS07 or above. It really angers me to hear from people who HAVE to itemize their taxes to say that 1040EZ people need to get paid LESS!!

    • CWO Robert Hullinger says:

      Does that arm hurt from patting yourself on the back? As far as being "fellow retirees" don't honor yourself. I am not ashamed to attach my name to the remarks I make. I respect those that serve and my political opinions don't merit undermining the unity of being a member of a proud cadre of honorable men and women who go into harms way. Your rant tells me that you are made of the stuff that career politicians are made…99 percent hot air and bullshit. Please do not consider yourself my brother-in-arms. I find you to be a Judas and a disgrace to all military men and women. You would betray me and every other veteran and military member and their families for the sake of your personal politics. You are the enemy and your remarks are treasonous to all men and women who serve. The next time you betray us have the courage to put your name on the treasonous remarks you make.

      CWO Robert Hullinger, USCG (ret.)

    • John Latham says:

      Wonderful. But I note the comparison of enlisted to their work experience counterparts still compared us to individuals with a high school diploma or "some college." For the senior enlisted, this is what makes the pay scale a joke anyway. The days are long gone when you could become a Sr NCO with a high school diploma or "some college." I had to complete my Bachelors to be competitive for promotion to MSG in my field

    • Fat cat liberal LTC. Did you turn down the "W' money? You could have you know.

    • I agree that you are rambling. Sounds like you got stuck in the office to long with other disgruntled GS's. Not like a Colonel.

    • Retires Wife says:

      This is not all "W" falt as you would like folks to think. The men before him had a big hand in all that has come about. The current seated man has added more employees to grow the government and grow the debit! It is time however for folks to start acting and realizing that we, the American people are going to have to change our ways.
      My husband is Army retired, a mustang. I have 2 active duty sons. And yes they have been to the middle east.

    • Woodstocke says:

      3WarLTC – A very thorough response – lacking veracity and depth but thorough.

    • another Obama loyalist. you have been overpaid as a GS-12.

    • Yeah, all true, far as I know. But remember that the Bush regime also hid the body caskets from the news (still ongoing). Troop displacements after 2am,, same as for the dead Americans coming back. And, illegal to photograph.

  2. Please keep your comments on topic. Thank you.

    • Retired Wingnut says:

      The active duty are leaps and bounds ahead with regard to leadership and should get paid more. I've been on both sides retired enlisted SMSgt and deployed to Desert Storm in Saudi Arabia. Now a civillian and the biggest problem I see is a very poor civilian leadership development and training structure. They really have no clue as to the kind of training and responsibility military folks received. They use me like some administrative assistant or secretary even though I'm a retired SMSgt and now a GS-12. They offered me to go to their leadership institute, so I looked up the course outline and it was at a lower level than the first leadership school I ever attended as a Junior NCO. They have no method of assessing and/or crediting you for leadership training once you tranfer over. Many of these silly villians have the idea that all military people know is how to do is dress up and play war games.

    • Retired Gunny says:

      I find it staggering anyone can compare military service to civilian employment. Especially a civilian federal job.
      Besides the well documented facts of military life, those working for the government as a civilian can simply quit or change jobs at any time. Military service members do not have this luxury. Yet the civilians are better paid, have better working conditions, work less hours for the same or more pay and the vast majority never have to leave their families for any period of time.
      I cannot agree with Joe strongly enough when he says for the people who have the audacity to compile this data to sign on the dotted line and truly serve their country for a minimum of 2 years like we have. Maybe then, they will have the good sense to tell whoever asks for this type of comparison that the comparison simply does not exist.
      The politicians need to stop using our sweat and blood as political talking points.

    • Does this include all the hours the service members put in. Waking up at 0500 to go pt, then working until 1800. Then an hour drive off base to get home (even though I only live 5 miles). So putting in 12 to 15 hours on normal days (not including deployments and field training) and spending all this time away from my family is probably worth a little more than what we are currently getting paid. I sure hope those members of the CBO who is discussing this and putting out these stats have at least served in the military!

  3. Roger Pickering says:

    I'm retired from the US Army Reserves and I am a Federal Civilian Employee. IMHO, it is a difficult comparison to make. The study sites high school and some college, but does not take into account military education (which would be difficult to compare to civilian education) and military experience. And as this article states, factors such as hazardous working conditions (for some), deployments and risk of deployments, and so on. Really, both are serving our country and both are deserving of decient, livable wages and recognition for their service.

    • …there is no such entity as the US Army Reserves. The US Army Reserve is comprised of Reservists. Reserve is plural, like deer or bear. Same with Navy Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, etc. Just sayin….

      • no need to know says:

        i totally agree i was active duty and then went national guard and for those who have never served on active duty some would say that the national guard is the military's best kept secret and thats a load of hog wash active duty is the only way to go. When i did my once a month obligation i kept telling people i was going to play make believe. Get pissed off all you want for what ive written but its the truth….

    • mikey00349 says:

      "Really, both are serving our country and both are deserving of decient, livable wages and recognition for their service."

      I'm retired active duty. I remember working 12 hour shifts and when 1630hrs came all the civil service picked-up their lunch boxes and left while the GI's stayed. I guess that's part of that 24/7 thing – I'm just saying.

      • And you get a check every month to compensate for that extra work. Civilians under FERS won't see a check until their mid-60's and had to pay into that retirement to boot.

    • John Latham says:

      Beyond what you mentioned, most enlisted who stay in have to have more than "some college" now due to the up or out rules. To get promoted to Sr. NCO you practically have to have 2 years of college and in some fields need a Bachelors to make MSG – I know I needed it to be competitive in Military Intelligence.

  4. Those are doing the comparison and making all the complaints need to join the military and deploy to a combat zone several times. Then and only then, can they make a rational descision…

    • Concur

    • Dave Reason says:

      I agree they need to do a few tours and get their butt's shot at or off,,,,

    • Your spot on Joe. Not many of the politicans have ever served in the military. I have to many words and not enough time to give my camparison.

      • That is so true and so sad that the men and women that send our troops in to fields of war have never put themselves in harms way to defend our nation.
        If I had my way, before you could run for any federal political office, you would have to serve 4 years honorably in one of the armed services.
        After being shot at, shelled and living far from family, they would take a little more care in playing policeman.

        Also, I've been out for years now, but when I was in California, I had people in my platoon that had spouses on welfare, because they were way below the poverty level, even when provided with base housing.

        • I agree, only I would add — serve in active duty, not reserve or NG. I remember a time when all in the reserve or NG did it to get away from active duty.

          • azazelcain says:

            well let me set one thing straight… i'm in the reserve.. been doing it for 7 years now.. before that i was active for 4… i'm a crew chief for F-16s, an E-6 now in the reserves.. during the week i'm an Air Reserve Technician (ART)… what is an art? well.. it's a federal job doing my reserves job as a civilian and dependent on me being in the reserves.. which means.. if i get out of the reserves.. i lose my art job… i'm a wg-11 step 5.. topped out on the flight line… and i work more now in the reserves than i ever did in active duty.. considering i have weekend duty every month.. i also have my own AEF rotation which means i've gone to the desert every year… gen bradley recently created an AFI stating that now i have to wear my uniform in civilian capacity… thus stripping every ounce of dignity from this job and turning this country into a communism… on top of that… i work with E-3 and 4s who, if they live off base, make more money than i do not to mention all the health benefits and retirement i never see… not to mention they just put a freeze on federal employee raises and colas… so yeah.. i think the comparison is definitely needed.. no.. i don't think the military gets paid too much.. well maybe officers.. but give us federal employees and especially ARTs a break.. oh and did i mention ARTs don't ever get bonuses because the govt feels we have to be in the reserves.. so we have to re-enlist.. thus.. no bonus.. where as Traditional Reservists get a bonus everytime they re-enlist..

    • no need to know says:

      People should spend 15 months in a war zone then try and do a comparison in pay

      • ex-nuke says:

        don't join and then complain. thats what you get paid for. ALL-VOLUNTEER FORCE
        Bunch of cry babies. Get Out

    • You are exactly on target. The two jobs are complete opposites.

  5. Joe Snuffy says:

    The military work more hours and have less time off than the federal employees. How many times do federal employees work on federal holidays? How often do military people work on federal holidays? I work in the hospital and I find it distasteful that on federal holidays such as "Veteran's Day" the military doctors and nurses are often working because the civilian (federal) employees have these off!

    Any attempt to compare federal employees to military is a futile effort. The jobs are very different and the working conditions are very different.

    • Are you saying that VA Hospitals have no staff on holidays? Come on Joe, Federal Civilian employees also work holidays and weekends too. It is just like the military, non-essential personel are also off in the military.

    • Yeah holidays, Military gets the better deal on those. Taking extremes is not required, this is a medium comparison. I was Navy, in combat deployments. I’m now an Army civilian and we don’t get 3 weeks on and 5 off here. Im usually 6 days a week regardless. Plus holidays aren’t always off, thats not a fair assumption. Plus in the military I worked Christmas, Newyears and Thanksgiving EVERY single year I was in UNLESS I took leave to the states.

    • Retired Vet says:

      Agree, but it goes way beyond simple Holidays. Really want to talk to the CBO gang that deployed for 12 months, went through a reset, and MRX and then deployed for the 4th time. For every 12 months deployed we should give our Vets and extra year toward retirement. Did CBO look at what deployed Federal civilians get compensated when deployed, it dwarfs what our solidiers get. So, I question their methodology for collecting the data. This type of reporting is ridiculous. How many Federal Civiilian employees have spent 2 or 3 Christmases and Thankjgivings in a war zone???? After being deployed the big, bad secret is, for everyday on the ground, under incrediabl e stress, our troops need a day of recovery time, do they get, no. They get their 30-60 days leave if they are lucky, not wounded, and starte the reset which is a burner. How many soliders vs Federal Civilans have been wounded or killed in the line of duty????? So, it goes on and on, this country wanted a volunteer Army then they better be willing to compensate those young troops. Would be easy to refute the CBO on this. How many miliary personnel participated ????

      • "Did CBO look at what deployed Federal civilians get compensated when deployed, it dwarfs what our soldiers get."

        Sorry, but if your are talking about Contractors, your right.,,,BUT, DA Civilians who deploy have to pay taxes, (we don’t get an exception for being in a war zone), And we deployed with units and I will tell you, yes we got shot at. The only way we made extra bucks was overtime, and they stated bitching about that, they wanted us available 24 hours a day but dint want to pay us. And oh by the way allot of us spent time on active duty, in multiple war zones and have earned our blood wings. I love active duty guys who wine about DA civilians all the time, until they get a few months from retirement, and then come knocking on my door on how to get in federal service

        • John Latham says:

          If you didn't get danger pay that was a percentage of your base rather than a piddly $250 a month you were screwed by your agency. The DACs working with me got it AND it was factored in as part of their high pay under the old retirement system -something none of the military allowances are part of.

    • Maybe at the VA, but I work for the army, and soldiers never just have a 3 Day holiday weekend, like when I was Active duty, there is always a extra "training Holiday making it a four day weekend, the only way a DAC gets a four day is with leave, Many a holiday weekend I am the only one besides the staff duty in my building. Don’t get me wrong, that’s what I signed up for when I joined federal service, all I am saying is I don’t cry alligator tears for the GI's.

    • AND don’t get me started on what a E-4 makes now compared to what I got 25 years ago. When I was a junior enlisted you almost never saw anyone below E-7 with a new car (and it wasn’t very fancy one) now we have E-4's with decked out HUMMERs F350, 4X4's and brand new dressed out Harleys, are there GI's hurting for money of course, but is usually because of poor spending habits not income.
      Again I am not saying it is wrong they are getting for pay, for what they do, it was actually shameful what we used to get paid, I knew plenty of E-5's with 10 years in and a couple kids who qualified for welfare, so leave their pay (and mine alone), if the Government what’s to save money stop dumping millions overseas into countries who can support themselves (Japan’s military) or ones who hate our guts no matter how much we give,
      Additionally, how come when ever there is a great natural disaster The first words out of anyone’s mouth is were is the U.S. we need aid!!!, but China, and other economic powerhouses give nothing or token small coin

    • Content DOD Civilan says:

      You overlook regularly granted Command "Training Holidays" most Soldiers enjoy providin them a 4 day weekend monthly. I am a retired Soldier and now GS employee. I received far more "Time off" as a Soldier. Now to take advantage of these "Training Holidays" I am forced to burn annual leave. The fact that we DOD civilians get Federal Holidays off is basically equalized as the vast majority of Soldiers get them too. I understand there are specialty skills that must work on Federal holidays as a requirement of their profession. However, most of those that work the Federal holidays are allowed Compensation periods at other times to offset the disparity. I know things come up that interfere with that as well, but to say DOD Civilians get more off time than Soldiers is simply not true.

      • Not sure what military you were in with all this time off.I served 20 years and can remember numerous times at sea where we were on duty working for two and sometimes three days straight with no sleep.Didn't seem like time off to me guess things were different in your military than mine and by the way I was making a whopping $99.00 per month at that time figured out one time to about 38 cents per hour. I will have to agree to one statement though pay is MUCH better now than in 1955.Now I will get off my soap box just injecting a few facts into the conversation.

    • When was in the Army I remember getting a four day holiday, instead of three, that was the norm in most places.

    • Sarah Miller says:

      I am a wife of an Enlisted Marine and the hours that he puts in is hefty. He works on the average 12 hours a day but sometimes longer, and what about the 24hour duty shifts, and not mention when he is in the field for weeks at a time. Most of the government employees work like 50 hours a week with a few exception.

    • Do realize how stupid that last remark is? Do civilian hospitals close on holidays? Get real.

    • 1st of all your not working BECAUSE civilian employees have off. Your working because your active duty and you raised your hand and took an oath, if you dont like it then you have a choice to get out… Dont take your frustrations out on civil service employees just because they have off on the holiday.. You guys get to pick when you want that holiday off, sometimes you get lucky and get the actual holiday off and sometimes you dont.

  6. I am always entertained with discussion on military pay and benefits. The cost of an all volunteer force is what it is. If the citizens want a less expensive personnel cost in the military, then maybe it is time to not use an all volunteer force. The freedom of not having to serve comes at a cost. Military pay and benefits usually shifts with the difficulty to fill required positions within the military. Recruiting may not be difficult as a whole now, however, it was not long ago that it was a problem. This contributed to the escalation of the current benefits package over the last 10 years. So any discussion regarding military compensation reductions should include the concept of mandatory national service in some capacity as an alternative for cost reduction.

    • Additionally, there are many DA civilian positions, GS 3 – GS 5 that could be filled by a civil service requirement. Not everyone that would serve under a system where national service is mandatory would have to carry a rifle. If service were mandatory, many of these jobs could be filled by such a system at much less a cost. When the cost of a Soldier serving went up, some roles previously filled by Soldiers shifted to GS or contract workers that also placed upward pressure on wages/benefits.

    • Chuck Pierce says:

      You will forgive me but this nations will never go back to a national service. It requires a military that is much larger than the present one and the training cost would be much higher as the turnover would be much higher. When talking dollars and cents the leadership need to look at programs not personnel, the military is about a 100K to 150K smaller than it should be. I as a retiree believe the retirement system needs to be looked at (DOD is the only agency that has to budget for its retirees). Presently only 18% who enter stay to the 20 year retirement, that retirement is much to young, the full retirement needs to go to about 25 years and the retirement need to look more like a 401K or the Civil Service retirement program. Just some thoughts.

    • HOW STRANGE THE CIRCLE. I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN, DURING THE 60'S AND 70'S. I WAS E6 WITH LONGVITY, PRO PAY AND HAZARD PAY AND WAS STILL ELIGIBLE FOR FOOD STAMPS. I HAD TO SEND MY WIFE AND CHILD TO LIVE WITH HER PARENTS WHEN I GOT DEPLOYED BECAUSE WE COULD NOT AFFORD TO LIVE OTHERWISE. IF THE MILITARY IS STILL ONLY GETTING 75% OF CIVILIAN WAGE THEN WE NEED TO REDUCE THE FEDERAL CIVILIAN PAY SCALES NOT THE MILITARY PAY SCALE.

    • I guess we can make your job a volunteer force too. May we freeze your pay?? I bet Congress doesn't decide whether you get a pay raise or not

    • Dennis Habern says:

      For John:

      It is time to return the DRAFT to its honorable position in our military,

      for both male and females.

  7. Chuck Pierce says:

    This is like comparing apples and oranges. No job in Civil Service can compare to what the young soldier does for a living. The Civil Servant is paid overtime for work more than 40 hours per week, the soldier works more than 40 hours per week almost every week. I am a retired soldier (served both as an enlisted and an officer, I was in the combat arms) and spend an average of 3100 hours a year on the job based upon the journal I have kept for many years, I also spent an average of 180 nights a year away from home. When the CBO figures compensation it needs to understand that the military is not the same as a civil service or any civilian job. Look at the number of hours worked for the compensations given, the Service Member is grossly under paid.

    • Larry Pierotti says:

      Exactly, what is NOT considered is that a Civil Service job is essentially 9 to 5 where as active military is a 24/7 environment. I bet when a Civil Service person takes vacation for a long weekend, they are only charged for the work day vacation, where the military is charged for every day (including non-work days) they are unavailable. Apples to oranges is the best comparison that can be made

      • Your buck private also gets 30 days a year of leave as soon as he's on active duty. A brand new civil servant gets 4 hours of leave per pay period (2 weeks). So that's 8hrs (1 day) per month off – or 12 days per year. Less than half of what military gets.

        So your comparison about counting the weekend vs just work day doesn't hold water.

        • depspouse says:

          If they have the ability to take the leave. This inability to take leave is why they had to up the amount of leave military personnel were allowed to accumulate. Even then many loose their leave due to inability (mandatory training, deployments, etc.) to take leave.

        • let's not forget to multiply the civilian by three times … there are 24 hours in a day, not eight!!!

          civil servant gets 4 hours per 80 hour period. so the 8 hours(1 day) per month equivilates to 24 hours(3 work days), or 36 work days or a total from 1 August to 20 September of work days off – just a wee bit better than the 30 Monday to Monday days which is our vacation.

          damn, got to teach you how to count too …

          • I have no idea what you are saying. A work day is defined as an 8hr hour. It takes 8 hours of leave to get to stay home one day.

            I double-checked, and they actually earn 13 days of leave per year, not 12. I had forgotten that there are more than 24 pay periods per year.

            Federal employees receive both vacation and sick leave. They earn 13 days of vacation leave a year for the first 3 years of service, 20 days a year for the next 12 years, and 26 days a year after their 15th year of service. Workers also receive 13 days of sick leave a year. (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm)

    • Paul Sheppard says:

      My name is Paul Sheppard and I am a Major in the US Army. I want to state that my comments are mine and do not reflect or represent the US Government. I would like to offer my opinion on the subject. Comparing the pay of civilian or civil servants to the pay of a soldier is somewhat incomparable. However, oftentimes the, comparison is made. I have worked as an auditor for the state of South Carolina and the pay was decent. My yearly salary was approximately $32,000 a year. Once I entered active duty, my pay doubled as did my responsibility. As the auditor, I had a set schedule. It was a 37.5 hour work week. Anything more than that was considered overtime. There is no overtime in the military. Soldiers work until the tasks are complete, which sometimes equate to working ten to twelve hours. I believe many fail to realize how much work a soldier does and the sacrifices they make. I do believe that the government has conducted a thorough study of the salary ranges for the civilian workers and have attempted to pay soldiers a fair salary in comparison to the civilian counterparts.

    • So true. When I was active, the average day was 12 hours long. 5 days a week.

      Besides, any federal worker who thinks they should be paid the same, can just enlist. Then they will be a 'huge pay raise. (ops. was that sarcasm?)
      :)

    • Dennis Habern says:

      The reason why we are viewing so many obsurd comments comparing

      military and civilian pay, is because most Americans have never worn

      the military uniform and therefore, civilians have no idea what our military

      members endure in a war zone or being isolated from their familiies

      for at least 1 year where dependents are not permitted to accompany

      their military spouse.

  8. I have to agree with most of the comments, how can they determine the pay btwn military who are on call 24/7 365, where civiliams work 9-5 get most holidays off, have unions backing them, if they feel they are mistreated, of course don't yell at them. I worked with civilans at times during my career, a lot of time I seen oh it's quiting time, time to go and have a cold one, where military if the job needed to be done today, you stayed until the job was done.

  9. I know we are at dificult times with the military budget. And I think the answers are right in front of us if we just look. My opinion is that an infantryman is an infantryman no matter what service. So look at the basic breakdown in paygrades in the service. I was a Sgt. in the Marines and during that time I was a squad leader. The rank for that position was an E-5 in the Marines. I led and trained my squad of 12 marines, which had 3 fireteams with a E-4 corporal in charge of each team. And the rest of the squad being e-3 lance corporals and some junior marines. Now look at the army a squad leader is an E-6 staff Sgt. with their team leaders being an e-5 Sgt. And usually the rest of the squad being e-4 specialist. Now both are infantrymen doing what infantrymen do. Now think of how large the marines are compared to the army. There is a huge difference. Now I’ve been told that this is do to the army wanting to get it’s numbers in recruiting. Don’t know if true. But all the marines I have served with have answered the question the same. I joined the marines to be a marine. Anyway I think the army should look at the marines and ask themselves why am I paying more for what another branch does for less. And for general info an E-6 staff Sgt in the marines is a platoon Sgt and you quest it in the army it’s an e-7 Sgt first class. I am seeing some major cost savings here.

    • ltwcharlie says:

      Try comparing the USAF. There you find A/MC/N 05's (Lcol/Cdr ) doing the same work as USAF 07'S ie. Generals and A/MC/N 04'S doing the same work as USAF 06's Cols.

      The USAF needs to to Congress every year for officer grade relief ( and maybe enlisted for all I know ) but they never cut people but instead continue to pursue the policy of increasing their General / Col officer structure. Pure nonsense – just so they can control every program, meeting or unit they can assigned too. The problem is they cannot make decisions because they are not allowed by the Hdqrs.

      Example – USAF BGen in charge of Iraq flight training detachment of about 5 to 7 people. Comperable A/MC/N unit of probably 100 officers would be commmanded by an O5. Rediculous.

    • LordRussell says:

      I was a an E5 doing an E7s job at my last duty station. Granted, I became promotable to E6 within about 4 weeks of ETS’ing into the unit, but never made the points. Yet there I was. Now what about that costs savings plan there? Not to mention the fact that during my tenure there I also headed a retro-fitting of a bunch of ‘tech support’ gear that saved the command in excess of $100 grand, but do you think I got any kudos for that? Nope…

      OH, and for anybody out there still in service… I can’t confirm the regulations, but there is INDEED a stipulation that states that there is a 10% reward/incentive to the soldier (or respective member of DoD, not trying to start a fight here) of the amount SAVED by the government by said ‘soldier’ or team that came up with the money saving advantage. I had learned this too late to be of benefit to me, but let it be of service to you. BUT FIND THE STIPULATION FIRST!!! Otherwise it will be for not.

      Not only will you help save money, but you’ll put a few bucks in your pocket as well. Food for though anyway…

    • I made E-6 in 5yrs in the Army and got out in 7yrs because I was not making enough! I was also the Senior trainer of the Ft. Hood Air Assault School back in 1991 and my NCOIC was also a E-6 who was doing the job of a E-8!In Germany,my Platoon Sgt was a E-6 and so was most of the platoons I know!True,Plt Sgt's in the army are E-7's but if there are no E-7's,they are filled with E-6's!So there you are,the army was doing cost cutting even before you joined the marines!

    • I am in no way dis respecting the Corps, but you cannot compare how things are done in the different services. Because the Corps is small compared to the rest of the armed services. With your train of thought right from what I just read it seems you want the rest of the armed sevices to drop to a corps size to save money just because the Marines operate at corps strength. Did you forget that the U.S. is fighting a war and bodies are needed to fight this war. It'll save money but at what cost.

      • I don't think he was being disrespectful of the Army. Some Marines don't understand that the Army has a different mission than the Marine Corps. The Marines are a small, light, fast moving assault force. Not saying that the Army doesn't have the same types of forces within, but the Army is better suited and outfitted for large scale operations and big theaters. If it weren't for all the "Joint Chief of Staff" bull about who's force is better, we would be a much stronger nation. When a rapid strike is needed, instead of using the Marines, everybody wasn't a piece of the action. I am a Marine and always will be and that makes me a little biased, but I do realize that in combat, if I didn't have the Navy giving me a ride, the Army cooking my food and the Air Force delivering my mail, that it would be a lot harder.
        PS – Just kidding about the Army cooking. :) Everybody knows the Army does laundry. :)
        Semper Fi

        • ret-itcs says:

          LOL! Agreed and Semper Fi brother in arms from a retired navy sort! Yes, it's different. One thing my last ship (an amphib) did was refit one of the smaller marine crew places as nice as we could for the marine E6 set. Thicker mattresses, nicer curtins with a marine logo and such.

          There's just no clean relation totally among ranks between the branches. Fire control alone is a big one. A marine alone can fire if they need to but a bit more control is applied with a ship's weapons system that's a wee bit more powerful than a rifle. ;-)

        • Wow…So what happened in Fallujah when your "Rapid Strike Force" was landed locked without your big brother (the Navy) and me and my "cooks" had to get the Marines out of there? We can measure johnsons all day but the reality is you are equipped to be a landing force. The Army is equipped to take it deep. And yes we have our special operations that make the rest of the services look weak with the exception of the Seals.

      • I think the Marine's point wasn't what the total end strength should be for the Army, he's point out that in an Army infantry platoon, there is a requirement for more senior leadership than in an equivelant USMC infantry platoon. Same mission. Same responsibilities. Less total cost.

    • 20andstillgoing says:

      Then there is a cost for joining your beloved corp, isn't there! If you ask me making an informed decision is a product of doing your due diligence and considering the future. Regardless of what branch you join you should take consideration what you want to take from the experience.Most people do their time get out and continue on with a civilian life that would have been accomplished regardless of what branch they joined.
      It seems like you , just as many others, buy into the Marine marketing program. If you are a career Marine, then I applaud you. But there are many countless "Marines" who serve their initial contract (some don't finish it) and then spend the rest of their lives advertising their colors as if we are all supposed to be impressed. If it's so great – retire! You being a marine and doing a job for less money then another service should give you a sense of accomplishment, but instead you are coming off as a fool for doing while others get paid more for the same job. Do want good marines, soldiers, airman and sailors do. Shut up and do your job! Mission first!

    • USMC1 a squad leader in the US ARMY is an E5 just like the Marines.

  10. The government unions managed to get their raises tied to the military a long time ago based on the false argument that they "might" serve alongside military in combat zones. The difficulty finding civilians to fill out the provisional reconstruction teams in Iraq and Afghanistan shows that was indeed a falsehood. Granted, there are a few, well compensated civilians doing their work, however the National Guard and regular military has had to pick up the slack because of the shortfalls. Time to break any/all comparisons of military and federal civilian pay once and for all.
    The most interesting aspect of the above discussion is that many GS HR professionals actively seek to prohibit military from filling GS rolls. There are many ways they ignore or skirt the hiring preference of veterans. As one HR GS 15 told me: "We know how to get around hiring preferences, no sweat."
    As a disabled vet with federal hiring preference, I was aghast when a Veteran's Affairs GS 15 deputy told me "We don't worry about disabled hiring preference." That was the VA! If they have that attitude, why even think about an equal system…it is unequal and definitely swayed towards the civilians.

    • Retired NCO says:

      You are absolutely right. Many years ago when I was a young E5/SGT in the Army Reserve, I applied for a GS6 position. I know for a fact I was better qualified for the position than the GS-11's hand picked man or should I say "buddy". I had been Active Guard and Reserve prior to that as a Unit Clerk for a Reserve unit for five years before I applied for the position. I processed pay, personnal actions, all the administrative functions for a 90 person company. The GS position was a Unit Administrator for a smaller Command than I had as an E5. The civilian system is all in who you know, not what you know.

  11. As a military spouse, our life is dictated by the military. They decide where we live, when my husband comes home, etc. My husband must be available 24/7 to the military. A federal employee decides where they want to live and can quit if they choose to. They can go home after a day of work ,be home for every holiday, be at their child's birth or birthday, etc.. I'm not certain if miliary takes home more money with all the little extras or not but I know that they offer the goverment a lot more than a federal civilian employee. The federal employee does not sign over their life and that is what a military personnel is altimately offering for their pay. Ponder that…..

    • You're mostly correct. However, there are emergency/essential civil servants who are just as much on "recall" as military are. They work seven days a week, are awoken in the middle of the night for emergencies.

      I'm active duty, but drive a desk and work 9-5 without exception, so it goes both ways.

      • Proud AF Wife says:

        you are correct there are essential personnel who are civilians but it comes right back to…they can quit their job anytime. They can find a job tomorrow, give two weeks notice and leave all that behind. There is a massive difference on the level of commitment. My husband cannot decide two years into a four year reenlistment that he's just going to find himself another job. I was raised in a military family, I am former military, and my husband is active duty..is the pay better for military better than it was back when my father was serving? Oh most definitely and our housing is coming out of the 'would be condemned if it was in the civilian sector' stages but we still pay civilians more to stand our gates than we paid the men who used to stand them before. I'm not fully awake and I think I've rambled a bit but the point remains..it starts at commitment and works its way up the differences ladder.

      • I'm not sure if I got what you mean.. There might be "civil servants" (as you call it), but they can still be home after the said emergencies – probably get paid OT, too.. I'm a proud spouse of an active duty personnel even though, I may say, it's difficult to have one since all the years our kids were growing up, he was never around.. He's always out at sea.. What kind of compensation do you think is as worth as being with the family comparing with active duty's 24/7, 365 days a year and mostly out of the country??

        • As a Civil Servant I pay taxes on 100% of my taxes, while our military counterparts pay on less 50% of their take home. That in itself in an inequality. Why should taxpayers pay for your housing and food costs? I always thought that was what a salary was for– no?

          • Joe Fed:
            As retired military my comment is simple. If military life is so easy and better than what you have Just why don't you quit Civil Service which you can and JOIN the military where you Can't???Problem solved everyone happy.

    • Happy go lucky! says:

      Amen! I am a military spouse and I totally agree! When our husbands are on deployments for 6 months, the civilian workers are at home in their beds or spending time with family after a days works. There is no comparison. They need to take a long hard look and see the differences.

    • Fed Employees only dictate where they live, what job they do, etc. Unless this Fed Employee is married to a military member…Then we are in the same boat as you.

  12. Charles Harding says:

    I was told by my First Sergeant, "being a ditch digger in Iraq is infinitely more dangerous than being a ditch digger at home.” The author states “quantifying those intangible elements among military and federal civilians is “extremely difficult.” It’s more than extremely difficult, without calculating in the differences in risk; you don’t have a scientifically or economically valid comparison. And to suggest that the difference in risk is immaterial is deceptive. Stating education as the key driver of compensation skews the data. It makes the younger, less educated, less experienced, military force seem overpaid. But when you factor in risk, indentureship, and family sacrifices, deployed military life is vastly undercompensated.

    • Another factor seemingly missed is how do they quantify the work day when comparing the two. Is the assumption that an E-3 in a Navy squadron is doing a straight 40 hour work week (or any number of other service examples)? Factoring in subsistence and housing allowances is also screwy, since eligibility is not consistent across the board for all ranks and all locations. This report has an odor to it, and it ain't sweet; but judging by who requested it, I'm not surprised.

  13. Charles Harding says:

    Who digs ditches in Iraq for 35,000 a year? Soldiers and Iraqis No one else! According to the AFL-CIO website, (http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/pay/) the average CEO makes 1.04 million dollars. Last year Gen. David H. Petraeus made less than $300,000. (http://www.dfas.mil/army2/militarypaycharts/2010MilitaryPayTable34.pdf) (O-10– >38years)
    And notice 99% of the military makes less than him! It doesn't take a PHD in mathematics to understand, from the top to the bottom the military is undercompensated.

  14. Between deployments and field excersizes I have spent several years of my life living on the ground or folding cot. More than once I have looked at my pay vs. hours worked and realized I was below minimum wage. Not to mention living in the snow, mud, or dust. I can't believe that there is any way to accurately compare the two. A high school graduate in the civilian world might be sorting mail or answering phones. A high school graduate in the military might be leading or teaching or making decisions with lives at stake while being responsible for millions of dollars of equipment (ie tanks).

  15. Also, in the real world families usually have two incomes and both spouses can follow and progress in their career fields. In the military where they are moved every couple years the family lives on one income a lot of the time while the spouse is out looking for another minimum wage job to help support the family. The spouse is alway starting at the bottom because of frequent moves.

    • Don't forget the enlisted member that after 20 or 30 years is left with a bunch of rent receipts or memories of base housing or worse living in the barracks. I hope their numbers included the single enlisted member that is penalized financialy and DISCRIMINATED against for not having a dependent when housing allowances are handed out. Its great to be a military retiree when these allowances are not figured into your social security and you come up on the short end!!

    • I couldn't agree with you more on this point … I've been a Mil Spouse for 23 yrs.. my husband retired last August after almost 25 yrs of Service.. I've raised the Kids primarily .. gone to College several times to try and get ahead to no avail .. The only offers I get are for what they Call ' Entry Level' jobs which is a corporate way of paying minimum wage it's insulting to say the least .. So I thank you for posting your comment … Marie

    • Happy go lucky! says:

      Oh my gosh, you have said a mouth full! There should be more programs for financial aid for military spouses to attend undergraduate schools.

    • Ben There says:

      Im glad to see you are trying to be proactive and your wife is actually trying to work. When i was on active duty a few years ago many spouses stay home and either popped out kids for more BAH and a bigger house, or watched TV. Remember, in the civialian world there is no BAH or BAS, so you should take that into account when you do your math. Oh, and don't forget all your training holidays and long weekends when you're in garrison, and your 30 days of leave per year.

      • As for GS benefits here are a couple of facts you can spout out next time you decide to comment:

        - 3 days sick leave each year; 13, 20, or 26 days of vacation leave each year, depending on years of service; 10 days paid holiday each year (DO SOME MATH AND THAT IS ABOUT 39 DAYS A YEAR PLUS LET'S NOT FORGET COMP-TIME, THE "59 MINTUE" RULE, AND YOUR ABILITY TO WORK FROM HOME OR ON A ALTERNATE WORK SCHEDULE TO ACCOMODATE FAMILY LIFE)

        - Two of the three parts of FERS (Social Security and the TSP) can go with you to your next job if you leave the Federal Government before retirement. (NOT YOUR MILITARY STUFF IF YOU DECIDE TO LEAVE EARLY)

  16. Albert Franklin says:

    If that were at all remotely true, then every branch of the military would be bloated: oh wait, that's government itself!

  17. im in naval aviation on the enlisted side, my buddies and i are constantly comparing ourselves to the outside world, heres how we break it down. we work on average, 60 hours a week, excluding watches and deployment. that being said we are stationed in california where the minimum wage is roughly $8/hr. and in california anything over 8 hours a day is overtime(time plus one half). we also work nights and the galley where we are supposed to eat for free at, is closed or unavailable to us during our awake hours and work hours. anyway, if you take the 40 hours X $8.00 you come up with $320, plus 20 hours at $12/hr=$240. 240+320= $560/week. that is just about our two week pay check. about $100 less. bottom line, we make less than minimum wage in california

    • Tom Lushia says:

      Isn't the military providing you with housing and food? Civilians provide these things for themselves.

      • Therein lies the problem with the report. It's trying to get a "total compensation" picture of the military and then compare it with a straight cash compensation on the civilian side. Apples to oranges.

        On a side note, re-read the original post and you'll see that he indicated that oftentimes he and his fellow service members have to provide their own food.

      • -forfreedom- says:

        Understand that most soldiers include their housing and food compensation when they compare their pay to the civilian world. I.E. I'm a SSG in the Army, I've been to many schools, also have an amount of college education, I've been enlisted for 9 years. This is my 4th year in Iraq. Currently I'm deployed to Iraq. I work 12 hour days, 7 days a week. I have had one shift off (day prior to christmas we went to minimium manning) during the last 5 months. So lets calculate the following, 12x7x50=4200 hours a year… (I'll subtract 48 hours hoping that I get 4 shifts off this year, notice I already subtracted 2 weeks for midtour leave.) So we have 4152 hours…. divide that by the estimated 56,000 I'll make during the year (that includes housing and food) (remember that I'm still taking care of my family back home with that money)…. I make about $13.49 an hour (IF YOU DO NOT FACTOR IN OVER TIME) (IF YOU FACTOR OVERTIME I MAKE MUCH LESS)(WHILE PROVIDING FOR MY FAMILY AT HOME WITH THIS MONEY)…….

  18. William barth says:

    How many of the federal employees go without seeing their spouse and children for over a year. How many of the federal employees work in an environment where they are constantly being shot at? How many of the federal employees work in an environment where the temperature can range up above the 100 degree mark for months at a time and have to carry an 80 lb pack on their back plus body armor plus a weapon and upwards of over 200 rounds of ammunition.
    Come on let's hear how many of you do that on a daily basis?

    Ok, you guys in the CBO make fists and put them up to your eyes thumbs facing inward, now start turning them back and forth and make whimpering sounds like you're crying. Now go home.

    • I can't believe the comments to your statement. Yes it is an all volunteer military and yes we volunteered…..but for all those comments, think about if none of us volunteered…..YOU would be doing the job that William described. So stop being so unappreciative. You get to enjoy sitting in your air conditioned office, at a desk, eating whatever you wish, when ever you want, going home to your family after 8 hours of work and sleeping in a comfortable bed after taking a nice hot shower and all the while knowing there are men and women out their keeping your country safe and free!!

  19. Rep. Hoyer, great guy, not. Gets paid over a million dollars a year and probably only actually works for about six months of the year. And this guy is looking to cut the "Federal" employees wages. Rep. Hoyer I will take your job of arguing and ignoring most of those that voted for you for a mere $200,000. There, we just cut out another $800,000 from the budget.

    • How do you figure that he makes over a million a year?

      Your own link provides his salary – although the listed salary is for his service as majority leader. He no longer makes that pay (as minority whip) and now makes what nearly every single member of Congress makes: $174,000.

      Only $850k less than what you said.

    • Andy…. he dosen't get over a million a year, on a Senators pay that is. Maybe $150K plus benefits (still alot but you way over exagerated)

  20. Oh yea, Rep. Hoyer's so called pay. What a ridiculous amount of money!
    http://www.legistorm.com/member/287/Rep_Steny_Hoy

  21. These appointed committees and Congresional Leaders need to stand in front of a mirror wach day and take a long hard look at themselves. It is not the Airmn, The Soldier, The Seaman, The MArine or Coast Guard Specialist that has caused this Nation's indebtidness. It is their legion of previous Leaders and current non-military head hunters that are trying to unravel this Country from the inside out, starting with the it's strongest foundation, the military. All branches of the service, all active duty members (Families included), the Civil Servants, the volunteers (Including Retirees) are all family and have supported each other trhough the thick and thin. DO NOT let them tear our integrity and values down through their mis-information.

    • I agree. I worked as a Civil Service employee for 30 years. I would never want to be in the military. I was a ido with 5 children. I did work a lot of overtime without pay. I brought work home many nights. Packages and information had to get quickly to commamders. I did it out of loyalty for the service of my country. That's why I don't underdstand all the parceling/contracting out of work to people that get paid minimum wage and have no idea what it is to do your best and be loyal to your mission. Our military and those in mission essential positions deserve every penny they get. They go places and do things I would never want to do.

  22. We need to rise up and educate them all on our responsibilities and capabilities in defense of this Nation and the Constitution. Write your Congressional leaders regarding their lack of truth, and provide them with current and factual data. As a retiree, I will wan you our benefits are gradualy eroding, and being revoked each and every year. WE all are important, whether in a military suit or civilain attire. The missions are the same, however, the position takes you in different directions. Unfortunately, civilains are not paid overtime unless prior approved, so, unfortunately they appear to often seem as they are cutting and running out. I mean for these opinins to be positive and hope that everyne understands it is time to come together as one, erase the lines, and defend our jobs and benefits and turn Congressional eyes to where they really need to be looking and not at the work horses that make our DOD run with Pride, Honor & Integrity!

    • Dennis Habern says:

      For Retiree:

      If the DRAFT was re-implemented for both male and female, this

      thread would not have appeared, nor would I have had to entered these

      truthful comments, if you follow.

  23. Looks like Rep Hoyer is going after the military voters who voted their minds and removed them from the majority in the House.

    A little vindictiveness can go a long way…say, all the way to the 2012 election!!!

    As for the CBO report, this is no less or more than the skewed results on Obamacare—GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). Rep Hoyer new what results he wanted and framed his inquiry to meet that end!!!

    11.2.20112, the next day of reengineering the Congress.

  24. Gary Campbell says:

    This report is BS. You can not compare a 6 month deployment (24/7 – restricted to within 600 foot area, actually working 20 hour days, sleeping in an area that measures 6.5 feet x 3feet x 2.5 feet, and giving up all choices (freedoms) such as what to eat and wear during that 6 months – things that civilians take for granted) to a civilian job that works 5 days a week for 8 hours a day and can still go home to their family every night. And oh by the way, the civilians are not getting shot at or living under the constant possibility of getting blown up.

    • glenn everingham says:

      Im amazed that the right leaning military which is dominated by republicans who rightly want to cut the budget think they are to be excluded from the process of cutting the budget.So you military republicans think you wont be included in the cuts.Dream on.You should of voted democratic then.The military has to be included in the cuts with a budget of over a trillion.Wake up.Bring back ther draft i say.Everybody thinks the other guy needs to be cut but not them.It should be a sharwed sacrifice.

    • Oh Gary, your so hostile. When you joined the military, did they promise you a
      8-5 workday with weekends off, or were you somehow expecting you might be
      deployed to a conflict or war zone, and one with no shopping? Milt pay and compensation now days is very good for most, compared to 18 yrs ago when I retired. It needs tweaking, to much of the budget is now spent for retirement services, pay and perks.

    • There was a report that came out from the Iraqi war, that stated there were a lot of civilian contract workers that were being killed, and some by their actions saved soldiers lives. But the military only reports military dead. My combat time was when I only made 200 dollars a month. All I cared about was staying alive and going home. I could have care less, what civilians made compared to me.

    • Ben There says:

      You would be surprised how many federal technicians our in country serving, either in uniform or civilians, right next to you. I have seen Intel guys plan ops, participate, and have to de-brief over a 5-7 day period with maybe an hour nap here or there. Many wharehouses run 24 hour ops, and then they get on the road to bring you your re-supply. When i was in country the logistical convoys were hit more than combat or prescense patrols. So, actually some of are living in the same conditions as you, and take the same risks as you.

  25. You know I figured out my hourly wages during my last deployment, easy math pay/hours working in a month…I was making like .33 cents an Hour.

    Can I have min wage please?

    • When I entered service I had no assumption that I was being compensated on a hourly wage. The military receive a salary, it is not a salary in which one expected to get rich upon. Compensation in the military today and actually for the past 20 years is such that the average service member will not exit the military and immediately be propelled into a civilian job paying an equal wage.

  26. Yall need to look at this study…they have are claiming an E-1 1 year experience Starts at 40K a year. http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12042/01-20-C

    • WHAT PLANET DID THESE PEOPLE FALL OFF OF? HAVEN'T THEY CUT THE MILITARY ENOUGH. WE ARE STILL THE WHIPPING POST!!!!

  27. Marcus Crawford says:

    Again there is a hard comparision to Military ot Federal employees.
    The Solider joins knowing the commitment he/she was taking.
    I also feel the Congress pay should be attached to the Military/Federal employee's pay sysytem. After all they are federal employee's. So then when they give themselves a big pay raise it will be 1% less than the military receives. The military mantains two homes while stationed around the world and they don't receive any extra pay so neither should congress receive any extra pay for maintaining two homes. This is a dream for we know Congress with never go for this. After all they do work for us, don't they.

  28. Scott Enos says:

    I would love to see the USA try to hire straight Mercenaries to handle our military obligations around the world. There is absolutely no comparison between military and civilian pay!! I'm retired Navy and I certainly did not retain my full pay when I retired unlike some in the Federal Government who only have to serve one term to get it all!! Why is it that some people just continue to try and degrade our military?? Unbelievable!!!!!

  29. NoMoreMrNiceGuy says:

    Military don't get paid overtime. I wish I had when I was on port and starboard along with 3 section duty for 20 months. They are on call 24/7. How can you put a price on that. I did a rough estimate and figured that the Government owed me 6 million at the end of 1997. I was generous to them and subtracted what they paid me. So you can start by paying you bill Steny…..

  30. ExUSAFMechTech says:

    Well, yeah, the average military weenie is paid more than the average civilian weenie (Federal employees, of course); that free medical/dental and 30 days paid vacation time every year, along with free housing and what amounts to a minimum of $10/hour ain't exactly chicken feed. And that ain't including the free meals for enlisted types living in the dorms/barracks/etc….. If I could, I would sign up again in less than a heartbeat — but the DoD says I'm just too old.
    Now, all you weebs cryin' about "Obamacare"…. How ya like that FREE medical and dental yer gettin'? Time was a soldier had to pay for his own doctorin'………

    • yo dumb ass it ain"t free like they promised we pay for it. shut the f up beach

    • Sorry dude but if you were actually ever in the Air Force as your screen name suggests, you DON'T remember ever paying for your own doctorin' as an active member of the Air Force. And it isn't free for retirees.

  31. Fe Fi feny Steny Steny bopenny All we have left is to mock these idiots. This loser never served a day in the military. He is a fool. This is who he is you can tell a tree by the fruit it bares. Never even shot a BB gun.

    # Social Issues: Hoyer is pro-choice.[10] He voted against the Partial-Abortion ban bill in 2003. Hoyer supports affirmative action and gay rights.
    # Gun Rights: He is rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record
    # Privacy: Hoyer claimed to oppose providing immunity to telecom companies but has come under fire for negotiating a bill, described by Senators Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold as a "capitulation", that would provide immunity to any telecom company[11] that had been told by the Bush administration that their actions were legal.

  32. Looks like he was comparing civilians to the fat a*es in Washington. You know who you are. Rear Echelon MotherF..ers REMF. Lots of fake medals and awards that they give each other. Like a hillbilly family all inbred.

    • Without the personnel in the back supporting the Grunts, etc., you would survive about five minutes and then be gone. Cry all you like about the medals, etc., as a Marine I did pound a type writer and also went out to the field. Got promoted faster than the average ground pounder, but then again I had two plus years of college, etc. As for medals, only got the basis ones, National Defense, Campaign, etc. didn't realize I was supposed to write up my own recommendations for the higher ones.

  33. Any federal employee willing to go in harms way, be separated from family and friends, and possibly come home in a body bag is welcome to apply —

    • yea i hear ya. Those cry babies are at the club crying in there beer wishing they had the balls to join the military. Now they want to dog us because they lost there dignity when it was there for the taking and now they are to old to join the best fighting force in the world. i AM NOT BASHFUL WE DESERVE TO BE PAID MORE THAN ALL OTHER FEDERAL EMPLOYES 10 FOLD MOST OF THEM ARE JELOUS MONEY GRUBBING CRYBABIES WHO HAVE LOST TERE CHANCE TO BE WIT TE ELETE

  34. obxpuparazzi says:

    First, anyone who says the military is paid too much should immediately be sent for a tour in Afghanistan, so they can compare the luxurious amenities over there with those here.

    Second, this does not take into account the hours. When my husband was active duty, we divided his salary by his average hours, and he made significantly less than minimum wage.

  35. I served one enlistment.

    Now I am a federal civilian scientist. I am GLAD the military is paid more than I! They have it rougher than I ever will (even if I do get deployed to Afghanistan in May!)

    Please, Congressweasels, do NOT cut military pay or benefits!

  36. Dale DAV 100% says:

    I served five and 1/2 years active duty enlisted, eleven and 1/2 years active duty officer and the rest air national guard time. Any enlisted personnel may become an officer, if the requirements are met. If you are going to freeze the pay of an officer above the rank of Captain, then do so for the enlisted above the rank of Sgt5 (E-5) ALSO. No one in the Military is over paid!!! Show me any Civilian Civil Servants who have served in Battle Zones, pulled remotes, and relocated every four to five years. Unless they are married to a military person, it doesn't happen. Only exception, a big pay raise and promotion, other wise they Home-Stead.
    Oh, by the way, I made far more money as a Civil Servant, than I ever did in the military as an Enlisted and later as an Officer. As for civil servants, they do not even come close to the performance of that of the military.

  37. If military pay is higher than civilian pay then it's about time! There are a lot of passionate comments regarding this article. This country uniting, coming together, being on the same page, whatever you call it…can only be accomplished by RTD. Let's Reinstitue The Draft. Every man and woman living in this great nation should have the privilege to serve their country. There is no greater honor. Granted, some people are not cut out for service, due to physical or mental limitations. Citizenship 101 = honorable military service. We should have a medal for that. P.S. Pray for peace in Egypt.

  38. Nathaniel Emery says:

    First if you are serving in an active job you can be retired after 20 years. You do not collect any BAQ or BAS when you retire. So you are really retiring on a quarter salary. Not a secure job for the average active duty worker.

  39. Vietnam Era Vet says:

    I would not deny them their pay, even at 100% of federal civilian pay. Comparing civilian pay to military pay is asinine. There are very few in civilian life who routinely train to avoid being shot while trying to complete a mission on behalf of the United States. Or risk having vehicle after vehicle blown out from under them. Or watching as comrades bleed to death or disappear in cloud of smoke from an IED.

    And, beyond that, who would be so arrogant as to deprive the families of military personnel the means by which to live in the absence of their spouse and mother/father.

    The military earn every cent of what the people of the United States provide to have them preserve our freedom at the risk of losing their lives.

  40. To all who reply, please realize that the federal employees are not the ones complaining about the pay of the military. The OMB may have prepared the report, but they are not representative of federal employees.

    Also, it is worth noting that very few civilian federal employees receive overtime pay. They're expected to accomplish their work within the number of hours planned for them every pay period – 80 hours, no more and no less.

    It is also worth noting that the average civilian federal employee doesn't earn the six figure salary that seems all too common within the Washington beltway – even with all the benefits added in.

  41. im2wolves says:

    Once again the CBO puts out a report that shows it doesn't know what it's talking. Never mind the intangibles, let's get to just one tangible: "work week". Let's say the average civilian works 45 hrs. a week that includes sleeping on jobs, playing games on computer, time at water fountain, etc. That comes out to 2340 hrs per year. Military personnel work 8736 hrs. per year (there ain't no going home just cause mortars are hitting the place where you work). Divide the military pay by 3.7 and then do your comparison CBO. The bottom line is that Military personnel don't get paid sh*t compared to civilian personnel.

  42. Please tell me how many civilians were for being over weight – how many were fired for failing a PT test – how many hours a week are civilians exercising PRIOR to starting the normal work day. Evidently the CBO is made up of a bunch of civilians who more than likely never served or dodged the draft with other career politicians. Lets make sure all the civilians are subject to urinalysis and are on salary by the month 24/7.

  43. We're all preaching to the choir here. Anyone who as served active duty in any branch knows there is NO COMPARISON to just about every civilian job. When I was drafted into the Army in Sept. 1965 my monthly pay (E-1) was $96.00 per month. Two years later when I was separated from active duty it was about $200 per month (E-5). A few weeks later, after returning home, I was working at a Sears store selling electrical light fixtures and appliances and was earning about $180 per week on commission. I'm glad that our military personnel are earning more today. They are putting their lives on the line every day for us. Thanks to all who are serving and to those who have served.

  44. Man I'm feel sad for alot of you, not ONE person said how much FREE HOUSING, FOOD, HEALTH CARE, DENTAL ETC.. ARE WORTH. You are a bunch of girls. Oh i work 60 hours this and minimum wage that. Cry me a river! Civilians don't get these items on the MEDIUM, they get to pay for all of that.

    My housing in Texas $900 plus utlities (military gets a same comp for that) $200
    My medical insurance $120 a month
    My dental $60 a month
    My food is approx $500 a month eating at home.

    Now shut the hell up. I was proud to make what i made in the military and never had issues with money. All the money I got was mine to keep, I didnt need to spend a DIME unless I wanted something NOT what i needed.

    Yes im prior military now a civilian, funny is you all picked your jobs and your branches of military you have no one to blame but yourself. It was entertaining to say the least of how many crybabies we have in the military. Heck look your on the internet, probably at work OR during your ON CALL 24hrs LOL! Better then letter mail I had to wait for.

    • Crying nobody is crying just like you said we picked our jobs and branches you did too. Aint nobody tell you to be a coward and get out when they started deploying Soldiers. You chose to be a civilian so

      My housing in Texas $900 plus utlities (military gets a same comp for that) $200
      My medical insurance $120 a month
      My dental $60 a month
      My food is approx $500 a month eating at home.

      is all on you. Your choices baby!

    • Nothing to pay for? Sounds like a one shot enlistment spent in the barracks living on chow hall food. Anything else would just make you a liar. I don't shop at the commissary or base exchange frequently and I don't spend $500 on food any given month for 2 adults and a child. Sounds like you need to go work for Steny Hoyer. He needs some folks good at making up numbers.

  45. Spoken as a true idiot.

  46. The study does not surprise me. despite what the military has been saying for years the average member of the military is making excellent wages that will not be equaled in the private sector. Do not get me wrong a service member earns every dollar they take home, 24/7/365 is a way of life civilians are incapable of understanding as is military life in general. However the situation is masked by the contracting of many military functions in deployed situations. We have stripped the military during peace time to cut the military budget. Then upon deployment we find our services contracting out for truck drivers, food service, fuel handlers, ammunition handlers, medical, security personnel, etc at wages we would never pay military personnel. We arrived here from a point where back in the mid 70's when I entered service we had soldiers on food stamps, living in poverty, we fixed that situation and in the process created a totally different one, to which there is no easy solution at this time.

  47. How can they compare civilian and military. My husband is in the Army that is a 24/7 job. You don't just work 40 hr weeks and that's it, you are on-call just like a doctor. You get no overtime and frankly the pay sucks. If anything the military needs a raise. If they are looking at officer pay maybe that may get close but most people are enlisted. I feel that Washington thinks we are sitting on our behinds instead of working. Maybe if more of them had the guts to join like many of us they would know how what the military actually does and how we live before making such ridiculous statements.

  48. So how many federal workers were killed in action last year?
    How many returned from an 18 month deployment to find there family gone?
    How many worked 12+ hours /day 7 days a week for a year at a time with no additional pay or comp time?
    And how many times has representative Hoyer been shot at?

    Perhaps we should have the CBO compare the pay and benefits of our legislative leaders to the wages of those guarantee this countries freedom with their blood.

  49. John Hawbaker says:

    I am a major with 12 years of active duty as an Army officer. The CBO study is interesting but has too many "intangibles" which many posters have already commented on. Some of these were listed on page 8 of the report, although without explanation for how things like multiple moves, deployments, or health issues affect their assumptions and figures. This necessarily leaves a wide gap in the CBO study’s logic, which makes this study not relevant.

    That being said, we still have an all-volunteer force for several reasons, some of which are listed. Greater group solidarity is the most important, and generally stems from shared misery. The group with which I feel the most solidarity is the group with which I shared the most hardship, which was far outside of the contract of any federal civilian.

    Soldiers, including this soldier, are not in the Army to get rich. The pride of serving the country, especially in time of war, the skills acquired, and the “group solidarity” are the reasons many join and stay in the Army, even if they won’t admit to it while they’re in. This report might not be relevant, but it does highlight some of the advantages of military service.

  50. Military Vet says:

    Hello all. I am a VET, after serving 10 years military pay is too much based on lack of education that most active members have. The only reason why the pay is the way it is, is to aid retention efforts, not that the service members earn it; any one can show up to muster and collect a pay check; and that’s what most do. I saw in a previous post one reply outlined about being in the line of fire, well sport, u volunteered to serve. Some people act so gug-ho but are in it for the money because they could not cut it at a regular job. Let’s face it I have been in the zone and I can tell u there is no dodging bullets 24/7 unless u are in a hot zone. For the guys and girls in this situation there pay should remain the same, but for the ground pounders hanging out at the local PX and bowling alley it should be cut. The free ride for all will stop once all champains are over with, and don’t let me get on the case of these weekend warriors who for 10 – 15 years gotten certain benefits for show up at the reserve station to goof off; now when the war effort started thinks the US owes them the world since they had to do maybe three tours that equal 18 months; hmm out of 10 – 15 years playing weekend warrior that time does not sound like much…when u serve, u serve with pride…and all of us who have been there know that military life is a sacrifice..but the weekend warriors whim are not use to this complain..and most of them have jobs when they come back that are protected by federal law.

    • YOU ARE A DICK HEAD PEROID

    • Military Vet says:

      Also, to add to my input most military pay is based on tenure. E-7 and above don’t really do any work. I have saw this with my own eyes.
      BAH that service members get is not taxed or included on any W-2 for tax purposes. The average e4 and E5 makes at leased 40k, when compared to there civilian counterparts whom do not have a college degree and only make 20k or less. Now for these military families whom live in housing rent free and/or whom decide to have 3 or more kids… The military is not welfare and when that 20 year mark comes your wife/husband will have to get out… Let’s see what kind of job being in the combat zone gets him. The average e4 – e5 makes 40k, this is a rate most states won’t pay to teachers, but will give thisto some ground pounders who don’t care nothing but about that check on the 1st and 15th? Something is wrong when teachers make less than most e4 – e5′s

      • Ok where do i start! Are you sure you are a military Vet?? I dont know about you but i earn my pay. And for you to go bashing the Weekend Warriors as you say, they are the main ones overseas bursting their behinds. Over half of the Soldiers over there are Weekend Warriors. Just because you went to one unit on the weekend and they were playing doesnt mean they all play on Battle Assembly weekend.

        sounds like a Disgruntled Vet to me

  51. For the most part these so called government workers are Fat Dumb and Happy. They can,t be fired wirth out a act of congress, so they hange on for 20 or more years in the same job, there is no up or out slystem with these guys. Can't even bellieve any one could compare are fighting forces to the civilian system. Let them try getting shot at just once and a lot of them would gone the nexgt day.

  52. USNavy ET4 says:

    I served 2000 to 2005 as a Sat Com ET in the Navy. Quick comment on education. The comparisons on education between civil servants and military personell is also unfair (I can only speak for enlisted). I was told that since I was working a highly technical, highly math intensive position, a lot of my training would be looked at buy potential employers as the equvilant of a college degree. Since leaving, I have been repeatedly asked by employers if I have a college degree. The two plus years of training (including 7 different “c” schools) is ignored. Not only that, but for the positions I did get, I had to accept less pay because of the lack of that degree. I know numerous people that worked various skill sets that have the same problem. A civ’s time is respected in their position. A civilian works a tech job, that time is accounted for. Why isn’t my time in looked at that way?

    It’s another reason why vets have such a difficult time upon leaving the service. A FC1 told me that 15 years of working boomers and fixing tomahawks qualified him to drive a school bus. Show me a fed employee with the same sort of problem!

    It’s sad enough so many of us end up untreated for mental problems, homeless, and no jobs to return to, all while doing a job most Americans don’t even consider. It ****** me off to know end to know a senator that probably never served is suggesting pay freezes for those that are serving!!!

  53. This is what I've been saying all along. I don't take anything away from the troops on the front line. However, the military I am familiar with have been lying on Panama City Beach their entire careers doing nothing at Tyndall AFB drawing $60k a year with all things considered and racking up retirement for age 38. That's BS

    • Shut up and join. If not keep it to yourself.

      • Calvin, lying on the beach doesn’t define a career nor does it describe the frequent and short notices for deployment. As an IDMT my training gets me me not so much as a basic nurses helper at best. My belief is that the military does this on purpose. If we had the same responsibilities in the civilian world the pay would be higher! I can take a BP now and a temperature and get barely minimum wage. While in the service I could suture, give Meds, put on casts, do head to toe exams, minor surgeries, dental repairs, food inspections, gram stains, UA’s, and testing water all while deployed to a desolate god forsaken country. Seems fair to me. Not to mention the management of people and supplies and budgets.

    • mikey00349 says:

      Calvin – If you think $60K per year for a family is a lot then you need get your head examined – really! Certainly, couldn't put or help put a child through college and support the family.

      Ret USAF…

  54. USNavy ET4 says:

    By the way, it’s the number one reason I am going back to school for a engineering degree. What’s sad is the number of public state universities that also does not take that training into account when trying to convert it to credits. I think making it through ET “A” school more then demonstrated that I don’t need to take a algebra class!!

  55. Here's a point. If a civilian worker get pissed, flips off his boss, and quits, nothing happens. If a soldier does the same thing, he goes to jail……

    • Army MAJ J says:

      If a civilian government worker gets pissed and flips off his boss, he doesn't need to quit, and probably can't be fired–instead they'll "reassign" him or her to a different job. It literally takes an act of Congress (or a crime) to get someone fired from government service.

  56. This is one of those arguments that could go on until the end of time and there would never be an acceptable consensus. Like most of the folks that have written, I started out in the foxhole and thirty years later it seemed as though I was still in that foxhole when I picked up my LES. Also like most of you I competed for the next highest grade to earn a few more dollars, but more than that to serve and lead. Even though we don't think about a number of benefits and advantages other than pay, they are there. I served militarily, worked with civil service and as a contractor. I also went to a combat zone six times. I said it then and I will say it now, I always had a choice to stay in or get out and job satisfaction always meant more than the pay. Now that doesn't mean that you work for nothing. I was a facilitator for the Transition Assistance Program for five years. I heard the same argument. I work for min. wage ! Where else can you find employment that furnishes Medical, life Insurance, housing allowance, a clothing allowance, food allowance. If you do have a hazardous assignment give you extra pay and if you are separated from your spouse, get some extra pay also. I feel that if want a job, go to Burger King, if you want a career ….. well the military worked for me. Take a drive through the Housing area , who owns the new cars, the campers, the trucks and boats and RV's. These folks aren't paying for those Big Boy Toys by making min wage. I'm sorry, I think the military pay is as close to their civilian counterparts as it will ever be.

  57. RETIRED VET. says:

    I AGREE 100% BRING BACK THE DRAFT. THEN MAYBE EVERYONE WHO BECOMES A CONGRESSMAN COULD WALK A MILE IN THE SHOES OF A SOLDIER. I THINK IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY SERVE. IT SHOULDN'T BE A CHOICE.

  58. I will make sure I tell my wife that I made to much money during my 24 years. She still remembers the hell holes that we lived in overseas and in the states, how we moved over 31 times. How we shared meals with our next door AF Military family because the rent was $500.00 a month more than what I received. We never asked for a dime from the Red Cross or ACS. My wife worked two jobs when she could. You can take your report and, well you know what you can do with it!!!

  59. As a military spouse. I know for a fact that my husband does not get paid nearly as much as his civilian counterpart. A civilian who does the same exact thing gets paid 3 times as much as he does, and gets all the same benefits we do. This article is based on what? What job? Who?

    • mikey00349 says:

      Lexy – You are probably correct in most cases if you compare the GS type civilian to active duty enlisted. However, when you compare the WG type civilian worker (blue collar) type to the active duty enlisted the active duty comes pretty close if not more.

      Ret USAF

  60. Civilian - ex Navy/Army says:

    For any Congress person to ask for this type of comparison just shows how little they know about the military. Pay and allowances can be compared till h… freezes over, but the intangables of being away from ones family for long periods of time, for being a target every time you turn a corner overseas. Along with many others things can not be compared using a “$” sign.

    Maybe the congress person should have to spend a year overseas in a forward combat area before they sit in a Senate or House seat should be required. Then they may think a little more about the military.

  61. I was in the US Navy for 14 years as a machinist mate and from my experience I would spend approx 75% of my time with the Navy and 25% of my time with my family. This was calculated from working hours on board ship Mon to Fri of 0730-1530, duty every fourth day (sleep on ship overnight and go home at 1530 the next day), local ops around San Diego (1 wk out at sea 2 wks inport, 2 wks out at sea 3 wks inport, and various combinations of ops out at sea and inport whereby the out at sea component you did not see your family at all), and a six month deployment every 18 months. I have found that the avg civilian spends 25% of his time with his employer and 75% of his time with his family based on a 40 hour week. By my calculations the US Navy member should get three times as much as the civilian employee (75% spent with navy versus 25% spent with employer), so until that happens complaining about military getting slightly more than civilian is a moot point. If you think the military are overpaid then join up and get some of that fantastic pay or continue in your civilian life and shut up.__Jon__

  62. If you think they make more money, GO JOIN UP!!!

  63. Go ahead and let the military pay suffer. They will regret it!

  64. And why again are you amazed! The next time they need someone to deploy how about you volunteer. You along with the other guy do not put your life on the line at any time and your with your family year round. How about lets go without a military and see where the US stand and then you will see why WE shouldnt be included.

    • glenn everingham says:

      Your missing the point.The federal budget cuts IS what its all about.Anybody and everybody who gets a check from the goverment will have to sacrifice.P.S. How about going back to the draft and all of us sharing the burden.

  65. mikey00349 says:

    The comparison is easy. Just about anyone other than active duty has the luxury of "planting roots". Wife getting good job and husband getting good job. Essentially establishing themselves permanently in the community. Active duty will "never" do this. By the time most active duty retire (early 40's), maybe 50's now days they can't work up the ladder and establish themselves because of their age. Slice and dice it any way you like. At the end of the day and at the end of their career, the active duty member/family still has the disadvantage due to PCS's and TDY's.

  66. If they compared salaries based solely on experience, did they ever consider the civilian counterparts are in positions they are overqualified for?

  67. Fine, if you truly believe that miliatry personnel are overpaid
    Tomorrow morning Tell Yours sons and daughters to sign up and Volunteer,,, after their first deployment to Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq.. ask your kids if they truly believe they are overapaid.

  68. Military personnel are on duty 24/7, Holidays, Kids and Wive's B-day, Wedding Anniversary, 2 of my sons born twice while i was on deployment. i am over paid..
    Stan Hoyer… Go ahead and tell your son and daughter to QUIT IVY League School to enlist in the Army…

  69. Why this report at this time? Could it be that the Obama administration in addition to already curtailing or eliminating critical defense systems such as littoral combat ships that could fight pirates (Muslims) in shallow waters, 5th generation fighters to stay ahead of the Chinese, anti-missile defense for allies, armored vehicles for troops, replacing shrinking number of Navy ships, wants to reduce the pay and benefits of those put in harms way?

    Could it be meant to demoralize troops like permitting open homosexuality in the military, putting women in direct combat situations, and forcing both chaplains and others to accept immoral politically correct philosophies in order to continue in the military?

    And will Obama continue the time-honored practice of breaking faith with those who served by supporting the breaking of promises made to service people who make it to retirement? Personally I believe so although I hope I’m wrong.

    • Army MAJ J says:

      Bingo. Sadly, Recce, I think you've hit it on the head–although I don't buy that he eliminated the littoral combat ships to appease the Muslims. He, like most other politicians who have never served, just doesn't really value the military.

      Time for everyone to go out and buy a copy of "Starship Troopers" and see how governments really should function.

    • ex-nuke says:

      YOU'RE AN IDIOT

  70. I spent 12 years active duty…just got out in 2007 as an E-6. I hired on as civilian Federal Law Enforcement as a GS-7 WITH special Law Enforcement Pay schedule and I STILL took a $12,000 per year paycut going civilian. I did not want to go civilian…I was forced as a result of being a single father living overseas with a mentally unstable VA disabled exwide in the states. I was still asked to deploy and could not.

    Not only is the pay worse, but the professionalism and promotion potential is even far worse. It’s absolutely WHO you know and not at all WHAT you know.

    Yes, I deployed 12 times in my 12 years and lived in FL, Okinawa, Korea and Texas. But, the pay was still much better. Imagine paying for your medical ($164.00 per payday), getting taxed on 100% of your income and having to pay for dental for YOURSELF and into your own retirement. It takes its toll.

    Still, I have to say, I make 50K a year, and do it all alone with my three sons, aged 7, 9 and 11 and I live in a nice home with land. Budget, save and you can live a good life. If you have 4 credit cards and a brand new pickup and toys in the garage…dont complain. I prioritized and bought a nice home and put savings away.

    The military earns every penny they make…but the article IS correct. Fed civilian gets paid MUCH less. That is a fact.

  71. this is all garbage the politicians complaining easily make more money and they dont do a damn thing plus they get to spend every night with there families and live pretty much were they want to live.total BS that they would even think of freezing military pay and total BS that they consider the military as higher paid ya maybe the military is higher paid….if our armed forces got to work 9-5 like them ha fat chance on that our fighting guys and gals are grossly under paid for the dangerous hard and long work they do lets take all those crying politicans and stick them in a transport company in afghanistan for a few months and see were they stand and when there done with that we will throw them on patrols!

  72. Jerry Goza says:

    I spent 4 years in the Military 1961-65 and I retired after 30+ years as a federal employee. NOT one time during those 30+ yrs was I ever shot at and I might add, never once was I forced to relocate!! This is BS – Leave our young Military Guys & Gals alone – Their pay falls way short for the great job they are doing, they catch enough hell as it is and the sacrifices they make is heartbreaking!!!!!!!!!!!

  73. Also, not everyone has the luxury of planting roots. In the civlian federal system, they close prisons, or force relocate you as well as mandatory overtime. Happens to me all the time and I was transferred from Indiana to Texas in order to keep my job. Furthermore, IF you plan on promoting…you might as well plan on relocating. Until a homesteader retires or someone moves, there ARE NO positions open except entry level.

    military was a GREAT life. Only two downsides were having to have and relocating. Otherwise, I LOVED it.

  74. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Farrells-Fight/1http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/art

    When more of those underpaid federal workers come home from an honest days work like the 2 examples above, I'll listen to this tripe. Otherwise not interested. Have Steny Hoyer walk point on a few dismounted patrols in Helmand Province with the 3/5 Marines. Might get his attention. Otherwise he should shut his yap and get a real job.

  75. RetiredSailor1 says:

    The repot is total BS when you take into account the hours and conditions Our Troops work in. Maybe if the report said Air Force only and non-combat Army I would buy into it.

    Marines and Sailors work ungodly hours period.

    • I'm sure many of us have seen different hours from different MOSs of different branches. While you may or may not have seen some Soldiers or Airmen who worked less hours than you think you did, remember that that is your personal bias and experience. For every person that holds your views, there could be a dozen on the other side that claim to have seen Sailors work much shorter hours than any other branch.

      Unless you have some study that says that members of one branch, on average, work more hours than members of another branch. Until then, it's all personal bias and speculation.

      • RetiredSailor1 says:

        Hey I was just giving the Air Force and Army the business, nothing personal. Everyone knows Sailors and Marines get the shaft in peace time and war time.

        For decades the only deployments most of the Air Force and Army saw where party deployments to Korea, Japan, Germany and so on.

    • Sorry retired sailor you will need to quantify that remark. I was Air Force and My wife still is. She is a Combat Camera and spends her time with Army and Marines in the dirt all the time when deployed. What exactly was your job?

      • RetiredSailor1 says:

        Aircrew Survival Equipmentman. I saw how the easy life of the Air Force and Army was when I was in VAN-OP Det Whidbey Island.

  76. RJBAre, Really? I deployed 12 times in my 12 years under Spec Ops for Kosovo, Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, Anaconda…etc. I got out in 2007 and hired on as a Federal Correctional Officer and got stabbed twice in my first year. We work 16 hour days, mandatory OT, double backs, nights, every weekend, holidays…etc. So, dont think we all sit around doing nothing…LOL!! Do some research before you talk smack. I know of PLENTY of military servicemen/women who spent all 4 years in an office and many more who spent entire 20 year careers never deploying. Just want to clear that up.

    • Drop it, Rob. You think YOU're badass? I've been deployed fifty times, all with Navy SEALs and Special Forces! Even with Spetsnaz and Mossad! I'm only thirty years old, but I've got more than twenty-five years of combat experience. I've killed thousands of people with my bare hands, and you think your job was hard? I had to build an igloo every night just to sleep in. Do you know how hard it is to build an igloo in Iraq? It's not easy. Especially since there was no electricity, after you made snow out of your own sweat droplets, you had to learn how to crank the generator that ran the freezer. But of course, we had a lot of energy, because back in my day, all we are was bullets and C4. Everybody else I've met has a really easy job, but MY job is worse than yours could have ever been!

      … What's funny is that you will realize how obviously sarcastic and false my post is, without realizing that the rest of us see how obviously false yours is. Keep it up, mister badass.

    • Great, I deployed somewhere every year but 3 of the 23 I was in, wahhh. Should have stayed in 8 more and not whine. Research? Research what? Most military jobs have no civilian equivalent in reality so any comparison is moot. You are correct, I did not research federal corrections officer vs special ops. How silly of me not to have made that mental leap.

      I see the same thing in your post I saw in the other. Someone not smart enough or lacking the intestinal fortitude to do 20 or longer and probably bitter about it. So dump on those now serving. Phhhfffftt. Not worth my time

  77. I beleve that anyone who has not been in the shoes of these men and women who defend our country, dose not know the in's and out's. I think the study was based off at least an high grade E-6 and above. I work for the Federal Goverment and I am a GS-12. I have done an comparision of what I make and what a military person makes and I make as much as a Major. I did some compairson and most military (young enlisted) are same as a GS-4 or 5 with all of their entiltments. So this study is on a higher ranking enlisted. My Granddaughter is married to an enlisted (E-3) even with all of their entitlements they are just makeing it in Little Rock, AR.
    I agree that no one should be able to run for Congress or the President (unless they are medicaly disqulified).
    God Bless our Troops and the United States of America.

  78. This whole comparison thing is apples and plums. There is no comparison.

  79. Your life is constantly on the line, of course the military SHOULD BE paid more than federal civilians!! lol is this a JOKE????? If you ask me, soldiers are not getting paid enough to put their lives on the line and be away from friends and family.

  80. RetiredSailor1,

    Air Force only? Ever heard of Combat Controller, Spec Ops Air Force, AC-130 gunships, MH-53 &60 gunners? I love how uninformed other branches are and they are IN the military. You are biased JUST to be biased. Please, DO your HOMEWORK before you talk BS. You make yourselves sound ignorant.

    ALL 12 of my deployments were in the dirt, in the middle of nowhere, in a tent, or out in the open. I also know of sailors and army personnel who never stepped foot in a foreign country. Get real.

    • RetiredSailor1 says:

      Hey I was just giving the Air Force and Army the business, nothing personal. Everyone knows Sailors and Marines get the shaft in peace time and war time.

  81. Talk about throwing fuel on the flames !! 99.9% of the comments I agree with on here many were just exactly what I was thinking of writing in this comment section But will spare the readers the repetitiveness of doing so , Get your heads out of the sand Washington both are serving but one clock's out and goes home to family and Military does not have that to look forward to and when a military man gets fed up with all the crap flung at them each and every day can not say "I am mad as hell and i'me not taking it anymore " … " I Quit !! " and If he does find a way to quit It will haunt him the rest of his natural life , Not so with Federal Civilians you just quit take your 401k and move on it's like comparing Apples to Oranges

  82. CPL Thompson says:

    People think we get paid to much. I am serving now, in Afghanistan. I am away from my wife and son for the next 8 months. We work more the 12 hours a day, 7 days a week . We get shot at and blown the **** up we are the people that keep you dumb *** mother ******* safe and allow you to say so much ******** go **** yourselves and leave our pay alone. Only reason for you to mess with our pay is if your over here doing our jobs. We should get paid more you spend a year away from family always smelling **** ponds and sewers, watch your brother in arms get blown up or shot and watching him/her die in your arms yeah **** YOU…

    • thank you for your service CPL its a shame how everyone looks down on all of you but they would never think of going over themselves cuz they cant bare to not have that 9-5 and weekends off any more your service is much apreciated by me. i am currently in the procces of joining and plan to go voluntere to go over there. stay safe out there and keep your head high.

    • john mcgruder says:

      thanks for your service, but you are way out line. my son in law is ncis, he's served two four month tours in iraq in the past 12 months, missing christmas twice and his son's first birthday. and as a former state department employee, we had employees, kidnapped, killed, tortured, living away from families, etc. you're not alone.

  83. Here we go again, the government finds a way to make things look better than they are.
    The military is paid more than civilians, BS!
    Even if it were true, do civilians live in tents in less than desirable conditions, risk their lives 24/7/365? Do civilians have to maintain a high level of physical fitness, while constantly being tested, have to step on the scales and worry if they are 1 pound over weight? Are civilians told how to wear their hair, what kind of clothes to wear every day, what time to get up, go to bed, when to eat, what to eat, given meals not worth eating, expected to go sometimes days without a bath?
    How many civilians are expected to live in hostile environments day after day fearing for their and their friend’s lives, while wondering if they will see their families again, and watching their friends lose arms, legs, eyes and their life. Are civilians promised great benefits and pay, but later find out their employer lied or changed the rules and took part of it away. How many civilians are constantly subjected to background checks, and random drug testing?

  84. How many civilians receive medical care where doctors are not accountable for their actions, and can’t take legal action if the doctors don’t treat them properly? How many civilians are constantly scrutinized about their appearance, their clothing, if they have a string on their clothes? How many civilians don’t have a choice where they work every day, and for how long?
    How many civilians are required to miss their family’s birthdays, the birth of their children, their children’s ball games, school functions, graduation, and the funerals of loved ones?
    I am sure I forgot many other extravagant benefits the military enjoys. The only over paid person in the USA is a politician. Politicians can say anything but does that mean it’s true, after all politicians never lie, right? Like inflation is lower now than in 43 years, when a bag of potato chips costs $5.00, and it cost me $48.00 to put ¾ of tank of gas in my car? Yeah right.
    Do politician really think people are this dumb, or are they just this stupid?

  85. Hoyer's another elitist congressional idiot who wouldn't know an honest day's work if it kicked him in the a$$ (and an honest day's work WOULD probably kick him in the a$$, too), and the CBO "study" is stupid. Civilian federal employees may have a traffic accident on their way to or from work, or they may even have an accident at work, but they don't have much risk of being shot or blown up.

    Apples and oranges, plain and simple.

    • Hoyer is the poster child for the study and legislation that really needs to be undertaken. Term limits on useless congressmen.

      • I take your point, but Hoyer is hardly a poster "child" for anything. He's a long-term politician and probably a grandfather and should know better. But he's also a liberal idealogue and probably just can't help himself.

        Term limits, YES! No more than 12 years for any of them, either in the House or the Senate, or a combination of both — but no more than 12. Then, get back into the private sector and make an honest living. And no lifetime retirement, either, and the same health care the rest of us have to use.

  86. Politicians should pay attention to what's happening in Egypt, because unless this government changes it might just happen here and sooner than they think!

  87. When the revolution comes who will protect the politicians? The Military, lol!

  88. Primo Benavides says:

    Left, Right, Left, Right. I truly believe that it is NOT fair. Lets see. When I was in the NAVY, I worked port and starboard, 8 hours on and 8 hours off almost my whole entire military career. During my 8 hours off I had to do PMs that were scheduled for the Week, Month, Quarter, Year, which took another 4 to 5 hours after my Radiations And Intercept Operations Management (RADIOMAN) shift was over. So I slept about 2 to 3 hours everyday when I was lucky to get it. Yea, I can not see my pay been compared to Civil Service. I don't know about the other services, I've seen Marines do Running Guard which is pretty close to our Port and Starboard. So you figure it out. How much money was I not paid that I could have qualified for in overtime. Truly there is no comparison. Its obvious that who ever fabricated this report has never served in the real military. Respectfully, USN SPECOMM 1970-1992

  89. I am 20 yrs old and I am going to college trying to earn my degree. I am a little confused as to why we are compared at all to the civilians. Everyone I work with work 7 days a week the majority of the time, those days are 10-15 hrs if were lucky. Even if you weigh the benifits that we recieve, I believe if you avg the pay by the hour we do not make nearly as much as civilians. The civilians that I see do not have it that bad off. They recieve benifits as well so we need to also include that.

  90. Salaries of the military can't begin to compare to that of the Banksters on Wall Street.

    Washington cannot keep taking from the hard working people of America to cover for those in Wall Street and Banks. We would never be asking the CBO to analyze this if Wall Street and the Banks had not partnered with the Fed and Treasury to steal the American people of their money.

    Of course the military should get paid more than any equivalent civilian job. The civilians don't have to go into harm's way when the chips are down and conflict is the only option after our politicians have failed us.

    Why don't we require that everyone in Congress and the executive branch sign up to go into harm's way like the military? If you did, the money would come fast and plentiful.

    I am ashamed that the small differential our military is given is being taken away to pay for Wall Street's stealing and the Governments corruptive practices.

  91. There is no comparison. Military is on call 24/7. I am a Federal Worker and Retired Soldier. Some here display incredible ignorance with statements like us civilians being fat, dumb and lazy. Actually the posing I am thinking about reads like a poster child for the Stupid Society wrote it. We all work hard. Someone, probably from Colorado or Arizona or Texas is probably havng an orgasm reading this. We are all part of the government, Soldiers, Sailors, those wonderful Marines, the Air Force, and even the Coast Guard. We need to stand together because some people really want our pay turned back to where it was in the 60′s (Military….you want your $76.00 per month in direct deposit or cash?). They will get their way unless we get a grip. Oh, and on a final note: I am not dumb, I am fat, I am not lazy and like all other Feds, I can be fired if my supervisors want me gone and know how to complete the paperwork!

  92. Lots of cogent arguments here against Steny Hoyer’s obvious grandstanding (that I don’t imagine will get too much traction in the House while we’re at war). The point I have yet to read is that Hoyer’s ignorance can be obviated by our troops pursuing their degrees while on active duty. Get the diploma that backs up your work experience and broaden your horizons (and opportunities) BEFORE you get out. It saddens me to read about an E-6 leaving after 12 years and struggling with taking a pay cut. I may catch heat for this, but pursuing higher education was always encouraged. Sure it’s tough, but it’s not impossible (and the return on investment is well worth it). Finally, before you club me with hateful responses, I say this because I know from personal experience. I completed my AA degree while a Navy E-4 assigned as an infantry corpsman with 3d Marines, then took a break while attending a 13-month long ‘C’ school, got back into school at my next duty station (while also working part time, and with a young family, as a young E-5). As I finished my Bachelor’s degree I decided to apply for a commission, got accepted by the Air Force and went to Special Ops Command (after continuing on and getting an MBA). Like most on this forum, I too have frequently deployed and was wounded 3 times, so I know well the “intangibles” the CBO report references. Awaiting medical retirement now – due to my wounds – I, like many others, leave military service (21 years) and take a GS-13 position with an intelligence agency. Gang, I’m nobody special, the opportunity’s there for everyone. So referencing the Movie Heartbreak Ridge, I’ll be Gunny Highway to you young warriors and tell you “don’t give the ***** the satisfaction” (meaning Steny Hoyer); get in school, earn your degrees, and continue to achieve greatness!
    Maj Dave, Air Commando & Wounded Warrior

    • Navy corpsman in the 3/5 Marines saved my nephews life recently. Can't say enough good things about those guys. Good on you Maj Dave and well said.

  93. What exactly does your comment have to do with the topic these comments are under? Where were budget cuts mentioned in this?

    • My point is directly related to Hoyer’s grandstanding(that’s frankly what it is), and is directed more at the comments left here about post-service veterans struggling. The article mentions nothing about budget cuts other than speculation that Hoyer might be relating this CBO request to his proposed military pay freeze. Again, I say obviate the whole argument by pursuing education while on active duty. I’m trying to provide actionable and realistic feedback – telling Hoyer to have his kids drop out of a life of privilege and walk a sandy mile in our boots is probably going to fall on deaf ears…

  94. tim lancaster says:

    amen brother…

  95. HMC/USN(ret) says:

    Any comparison between federal civilian and military pay is ambiguous at best. While some civilian employees may go into hazardous situations, most do not. How do you compare 24/7 availability required of the military. Or the duty/watchstanding requirements. Or deployments – My first shipboard assignment as an IDC, I spent 12 of the first 13 months onboard deployed from home port. A couple of instances (due to patients requiring care and that I could not immediately med-evac) I put in 36-40 hour days. This report is nothing but an attempt by a Dem of screw the military. If the report had said that military personnel were underpaid, it would have been buried and never seen the light of day.

  96. No argument that Soldiers should be paid at the level they are being paid. However, there are numerous Green Suit Jobs that have been converted to Federal Civilian with no change in responsibilities. What Federal Civilians don't get when deployed is the tax exclusion and hazardous pay equal to Officers and NCOs. Yea, there is overtime but it is tightly controlled and often captured as comp time vice cash. What is also not explained by the CBO is also abuse of the system by TDY babies who go into the theater for 10-15 days and reap the same benefits that Soldiers in true harms way reap. I personally know a few that are assigned to CONUS HQs but make sure they go on short deployments to get that tax exclusion. TDY in Qatar for a conference is not exactly living dangerously, but Tax Free and HZ. So, lets keep this in perspective before slamming Federal Civilians. As far as extended deployments Federal Civilians do get differential pay, but that doesn't kick in until day 42. I say tighten the rules on some of the so-called HZDuty and tax rules for places such as Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait.

  97. Retired E7 says:

    First of all, the topic is not about budget cuts. That said, anybody who has served, or is currently serving, in the military knows that when the budget gets tight, it is usually the military that gets cuts first, and deep. I spent most of my service time having my pay "capped" to less than inflation rates to save money for important programs like welfare. Often times, as a Senior NCO, I spent what little extra I had on basic supplies for my troops, as we were not able to procure tools, office supplies, etc, due to budget cuts. We have/will continue to take our fair "share", but it shouldn't be at the expense of bloated government and grandstanding congressmen.

  98. The real concern is not whether you reduce military and federal employee pay, but why are these crooked politicians trying to reduce our pay? It's because they stole, abused and used our tax money to buy votes to get themselves re-elected year after year! Now they want us to argue among ourselves about an issue that should never be. This is the way government and politicsworks; it's like telling your kid I'm going to give you two choices that ' I CHOOSE ' so you won't home in on the real issue . . . Gov't theft of our tax dollars! If you ever hear the gov' or politicians talking about giving back someof your income tax, that's to keep your mind off all the other stuff taxed

  99. I just commented on this issue afew minutes ago and I can't help taking my own advise. The part these political crooks leave out is " WE DO NOT LIVE IN A SOCIAL WORKING SOCIETY" we are paid more because our work is more technical, hazardous and because most people won't or can't do the job the military does! So why are we paying any politican more than minimum wage? Their jobs are not complicated, it's not that dangerous most of them are lawyersny and there are plenty of them; so if we cut their pay to military pay levels how much would the CBO calculate we the tax payers would save? They would never vote their pay down that low so they give you two other choices military or federal or both should be cut.

  100. Military get paid extremely well compared to when I was in. Remember, a lot of troops that go over to Iraq and Afghanistan never see any combat, the REMF'S sit on the base and collect all the benefits of what the grunt makes without the danger. In nam we resented, and the grunts resent it now.

  101. I used to have to get together details for a lot of things that needed to be done on base. I am overseas now, as a civilian. Those details are now done by TCN's paid to do them. In our office, the soldiers do very little and with no details to have to do, the only hardship is being away from their families, which I am too. We both serve our country, shouldn't we have respect for each other, instead of I'm better than you, or I deserve more.

  102. Well we all know it can go on all day defending both sides some jobs might pay better on the other side. But I believe we all should agree that the military along with the many benefits has alot of great responsibility and is very different from civilian life.
    With that said there may be some civilian jobs that require long days of work and working holidays and yada yada. But if ur a cook to a typist to infantry you are bound by the same rules and regulations and can be told what to do on a drop of a dime. Now that is where the differ is. And that is where the military stands apart.
    We should get way more pay for what we do what is required. Look at the reservists. No one mentioned them. They live two lives both bound by military and civilian rules and regs. What about the father of four who has a mid level job of ten years comes to work to find he is laid off. Making unemployment at $300 a week. But yet is a Ssg and being in the military has to keep the bills paid or will eventually lose the security clearance. Or when he takes a tour active duty for the consistent pay has to deal with the fact that sooner or later the tour is gonna end and he will be back on unemployment. But he can’t land a job while on tour cuz no one will hire someone who can’t even come in for interview. Then what if the good father does fall behind on bills? He would most likely lose his security clearance and that never looks good on either report of evaluations.
    Yes maybe we do get paid more on some occasions but what we do and have to do along with what we put our family and friends thru I am positive all would agree we don’t get paid enough. Most of us volunteer and yet we have to sit back an see some guy who makes way too much money tell us our pay is too much but yet when there is a riot they call the military to protect him. Hmm yeah active and reserve. Paid too much for what we and families go thru??? Wow. Makes me wanna stay in longer and feel appreciated.
    Thanks. Ssg of 12 years

  103. So what, they should make more, instead of cutting military pay, how bout cutting all of congresses pay and benefits, reforming welfare so the welfare kings and queens don’t keep getting rich for doin nothing, the list goes on and on of things we could cut instead of military pay, come on now…

  104. Colonel Chris says:

    First, this study was entirely bogus. To attempt to compare the salaries of each is impossible due to the unique conditions faced by the military. When I see studies such as this. I realize how little the experts truly understand anything. We all know where cuts should be made. We all know why they won't be. And we all know what the end result will be.

  105. I would like to see the data that was used to compile the report.

    1970-1974 I was in military intellligence, Duty MOS 98C, highest rank attained – Specialist 4, base pay $462.90, monthly pay $621.30 (with rats and BAQ which I never saw), yearly salary $5,554.80. Civilian equilvalent (GS 7) sitting in the next desk (when I was in the States) $10520.

    1977-1995 Duty MOS 74F, computer programmer, highest rank attained – SFC (E-7), base pay $2152.20, monthly pay $2840.70 (with rats and BAQ, yearly salary $34,088.40. Civilian equilvalent (GS 12) sitting in the next desk (when I was in the States) $40298.

    These numbers also don't take into consideration the length of service and training (my time) to obtain promotions.
    (Minimum time in federal service to obtain SFC – 11 years PZ, 9 years SZ)
    (Minimum time in federal service to obtain GS-12 334 series – 5 years.

    …and yes even enjoying the "good life" of a 'rear area pogue' I spent over half my career (21 years) in some real armpits. …and yes computer programmers and MI people do spend time in the field and away from home and family.

  106. Happy go lucky! says:

    Oh, and by the way when our military people are hurt due to being in the military when they are shot at or get hurt while in Iraq or Afghanistan, what happens to them? Are they treated fairly after they are hurt and can no longer go back and serve? Well the civilians sit at their desks until retirement and then they go home a reap rewards of retirement! My husband did chose his career, but at the same time, he did miss out on a lot of family events. Can the civilian workers say the same?

  107. Ben Around says:

    I have over 19 years in service, Army Reserve, Regular Army, and National Guard, to include AGR. I am now a Federal Technician. Much of my past six years has been spent in supply, and yes, I have been mobilized. Active Duty pay is very good considering the state of our economy. Where as my federel technician pay is well below where i feel it should be. In the technician program you must maintain an active status in the National Guard, so we are both Military and federel employee. If it means fixing our economy and lowering our national debt, we should all do our part and accept a pay freeze. If poloticians are going to pick and choose who will recieve a pay raise, it should go to the federal employees. I agree that our Active Duty members should make more, but the gap between our pay should not be this big.

  108. For my part in the Military, I started at the bottom and worked upwards. I worked in the field for a period and then got a staff job for a period. Ususally about 4 years. After 4 in the staff job it's back to the basics in the field. Why? To get a touch of reality before going back to another staff job. This rotation made me a better individual in the staff jobs. I knew where I came from and what it was like in the trenches so to speak. These civil servants need to be forced to work in the trenches for half of their time (at least) they NEED TO REALIZE how life is, especially without their civil benefits. They are so far out of touch with reality, they are blind. (draft their butts)

  109. How many civilian employees/DOD qualify for food stamps and WIC. I can't name one, but I can name hundreds of military enlisted and retirees including myself that does qualify.

  110. john peppers says:

    Retired. 99.9% people do not realize CBO stats in all cases are formula directed to a specific end statement. CBO is garbage in and garbage out as the member of Congress directs. I.E. – CBO in Obamacare debate declared $500 billion in Medicare savings because this is what the "formula" direct of Congress provided to them. Then turned around and spent that money without declaring outlayed and excluded $250 billion on "DoC Fix" as not spent. This was all part of CBO then saying Obamacare saved over $750 billion dollars. CBO = garbage in and garbage out.

  111. deeplantation says:

    Thanks for the wake-up call this AM. Tell you what, every member of Congress and the Executive Branch takes a cut and we can start talking. I don't know too many (but I know there definitely are some) federal workers who are on call 24/7 their entire careers. That's just the start of it. Cut the slack in the federal work force + cut programs + Congress no-pay for 2 years; and same with the Executive Branch, including the President. Then and only then start attacking the military. We who are active duty, reserve, guard, and retired undertand and know the hardships that earn the difference in pay. And by the way, calculate out all the hours on call and 12-16 hour days, weekends lost (with no comp time), vacation days lost forever, and the military it Underpaid. If we cut the pay and benefits, we will lose many military and potential military. Or is the end-game to destroy the military in the USA?

  112. Served Proudly says:

    Civilans reluctant to join ,quick to comment on the military ! Once you have served at least 2 years on ACTIVE duty do you have a valid opinion about the military.Anything else is just incogitant speech ! My 26 years on ACTIVE duty gives me the right to comment on the military !

  113. Marine1994 says:

    I was an enlisted Marine from May 2001 to May 2006. I made sergeant in 3 years and Honorably discharged. I was an outstanding Marine; 1st class pft, expert rifle X 5 years, and no NJP's. I thought the pay was great. If you consider a single Marine living in the barracks does not have to pay rent, does not have to buy food, does not have to pay for medical and as long as he or she does not spend his/her money foolishly, they should do well. Here is the amount that I took home after taxes on these dates 2-15-2006 $1050.78 on 3-1-2006 $1037.99. This is right off of my L.E.S. and I lived in the barracks. Also keep in mind that the government workers that people are complaining about getting paid more and so on…Most likely served in the Military. They were smart and got out and worked in a job that they were able to stay home. I have posted comments like this before. If you want the government to save money I think they should cut back on officers pay. With my experience most of them come in late and leave early. Plus they get flight pay, hazard pay and all kinds of other benifits. I only had two CO's that I respected because they were not afraid to get their hands dirty.

    • micah ross says:

      I got to agree with you on the officer pay, I do know some great officers, (all if them were prior enlisted) but most of them are overpaid and underworked. I got to disagree with you on some other points though. I was married coming in, so I never lived in dorms but some of my best friends did. The size of those rooms, along with no private bathrooms or any other basics you would find in a normal home makes the comparison value drop significantly. And the new guys nowadays only bring home about 1200 a month. That’s about the same as you make at Starbucks. Like somebody else said, how many civilian workers vs military are on welfare. I do thank you for your service and got nothing but respect for you. I’m not a marine, but myself and several guys in my shop have all agreed that if anyone in the service deserves to be more rewarded its the marines.

  114. john mcgruder says:

    retired military & civilian. E1-O6, 30 yrs, US, FRG and Vietnam theater active, the rest reserve, no combat. GS11-SES-4 25 years, Justice and State. all comparisons suffer. some are overpaid and others underpaid, but for the most part, total compensation is too great. even if salaries are in some cases low, federal pensions are draining the budget. the military has enjoyed significant pay increases as lobbyists win concessions and respect for the military grows. the pension benefits were set when salaries were depressed. amazingly, reports show that many in the military don't know the true value of their compensation package. we need to move to a simpler salaried system, even at higher salaries if need be, to eliminate all the tax free pay and benefits. then the troops will know and america will know what we're paying. it will be more fair to everyone.

  115. If they are so concern about the budget and cutting somewhere why don't they start with their house first. The President, Congress, Senators, their aids, staff, Governors, Lt Governor, Majors, put them on pay freeze and a 10% cut in pay. Now there's where we would be saving money. It's so easy to put a pay cut or freeze on the little people and expect them to do the work, but don't bother my pay and my comfort. I'm a single Mom with a disabilities with a child who has a disablity working 21 years for the Federal government, just have got a promotion for doing duties way passed my position description for over 6 yrs that puts me in the $40,000. range. Now you freeze me from getting another raise. Military personnel and Federal employees work harder than any of our top executives with no thanks or money. It's a disgrace that some of these employee have to get food stamps, now that's a crime. How many people working under the President, Congress, Sentors, Governors, Mayors have to have food stamps then put their lives in danager to protect our country.

  116. Here's my advice to everyone still in the military. do your 20 yrs. youll start getting paid retirement after that. then go get a civilian job making much less. nobody in my world can retire after just 20 yrs.

    • depspouse says:

      After 20 years, you cannot fully retire on military retirement pay. So it is not really retiring. Yes, you get retirement pay and can get another job; however, since most military specialties do not equate to civilian jobs, you have to start at a lower pay scale than the other people your age in the civilian world. The retirement pay basically offsets the difference of what you would be making in the civilian job if you had started your civilian career in your late teens or early twenties.

  117. RedWing55 says:

    Yup, you'd be doing real well. My son (SGT (11B) in 3/1ID) is preparing for his 3rd combat tour and he has only been in 6 years. As a SGT, he gets about $2400 a month when deployed, he also has the privelege of working 14 – 16 hours a day (usually 7 days a week), while being shot at.

    I retired as a LTC in '05. Was deployed for 18 months during that period. I figured out my hourly wage for my last duty station (spent 6 years in that assignment, including the deployment) and I was being payed just under $10 an hour. Let's not even talk about the medical issues for a lot of soldiers.

    Steny Hoyer is an idiot. The Constitution requires the Government to provide for defense of the nation, no where do I recall it requiring foreign aid, welfare and a lot of the social services that we waste money on.

    If Steny really wants to help bring the budget under control, how about spending less money? Nope they can't bring themselves to cut spending, just talk about how they need to shaft those of us that have given our lives to this nation.

  118. This report is a statistical analysis of the pay differences and it's well known that anything statistical can be skewed to favor the desired results. For example, let's choose this factor instead of that one, then let's weight this one more than that one, ad nauseaum. Pretty simple to do; they then fail to mention exactly how they arrived at their results to make it seem a valid, creditable report when in reality it's pure BS. "Don't look at the man behind the curtain."

  119. It is correct. I paid military over 20yrs and it does appear that they make more than civilians. Most of military pay is not taxable. They can use the mortage interest deduction to reduce their taxable income, however they recieve a non-taxable housing allowance.

  120. Randy Clark says:

    I'd love to see my local Social Security Office employee sent to Iraq or Afghanistan for 16 months, being shot at and dodging IEDs, separated from their families, living in the sand, eating MREs – - then see how loudly they scream! Each member of Congress has an annual expense accout of $1.5-million dollars. Why not bitch about that and leave the Military alone? How about the BILLIONS we send to countries who HATE us – - BILLIONS in AID money. All you Liberal cry babies never said a word about Nancy Pelosi's Gulfstream 550 private jet. Our country is upside down. Picking on the military to cut the budget! PLEASE! Randy, USMC/DoD Ret

  121. Larry Johnston says:

    If there is a fair comparison, It may be with non combat personel that are the support people for the front line troops. Should a Capt. of payroll receive the same as a Captain in a Cadre position. Should a E-5 Air Force Technition receive the same as a E-5 grunt squad leader. I am a strong supporter of the Draft. SFC larry Johnston ret.

  122. SSgt J. Crowder says:

    Last time I checked, no IRS analyst was asked to gear up and walk point on patrol or escort some convey of fuel to AF/PAK. When your life is on the line, a little extra in the pay envelope is the right thing to do. Plus, in the service, you do what you're told to do, regardless how long it takes. You gotta stay awake 48 hours, you do it. You cover your buddy''s butt when he shoves outta the hole and he does the same for you. Extra Pay, you bet your A##.

  123. Dennis Habern says:

    Part 1:

    The congressional maniacs in Washington need to cease infringing

    upon our military benefits, because it is we military, retirees and active

    personnel that have maintained a sense of vigilance to keep the United

    States safe, where most of Congress, including the pretender whom

    resides in the White House, abhored the thought of wearing an American

    Uniform because they thought that they might be called upon to serve in a

    war zone, and have to pay the ultimate price as so many other Americans

    have commencing with the American Revolutionary War in the 18th

  124. Does the comparison take into consideration retirement benefits? A lot of the military active duty compensation is not figured into their retirement pensions and pensions are one of the biggest problems.

  125. Dennis Habern says:

    Part 2

    century, many forgetting the words of wisdom spoken be the late John

    F. Kennedy (JFK): "ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU;

    BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY." With the call to

    Political Correctness instead the call to Patriotism running rampant in

    the United States, is it no wonder that our country lies in a poor state

    of indecision, especially being misguided by a weak and cowardly

    president who's bent is to completely destroy the United States and our

    methods of capitalism, as he leads the American sheep to slaughter, into

    the folds of the darkness of Socialism, in which no country has survived.

    2012, cannot come soon enough, if he is not impeached before.

  126. They’re “comparing apples to oranges”. How many civilians are shipped off for a year or better and routinely exposed to hostile fire or improvised explosive devices? How many civilians have a job that could be remotely classified as “dangerous”? Our military deserves to be paid more than their civilian counterpart.

  127. This has to be a joke. There are no civilian jobs equal in hardship and risk that Marine grunts do. Remember the so called non partizan CBO said the Obama health care would break the countries economy that is until they were called to the WhiteHouse for a meeting then suddenly they said it would save a trillion dollars. CBO and congress are scum.

  128. Dennis Habern says:

    Has Rep. Hoyer EVER worn the uniform of the country that he projects

    allegiance to? The same question can be asked of the entire motley of

    545 Congressman with the exception of John McCaine, because we in

    the military are quite aware of his heroic story, needless to say, we cannot

    comment so favorably on the current pretender to the White House and

    his Congressional "COMRADS."

  129. Some a-hole politician in Washington telling me (enlisted man) that I am over paid. When is the last time he was sleeping in the desert, being shot at or hbombed. When was the last time he was seperated from his family for 18-30 months, come home for a few months and then gone again. A-holes like him don't know shit about the military. You figure out the hours worked by the average military person and they make .15-30 an hours. Bite me you stupid bastard!

  130. Dennis Habern says:

    Has Rep. Hoyer read the comments above? Therefore, in his infinite

    wisdom, how does he justify his comments concerning military pay

    versus civilian pay. If it is true, I am happy to see our service men and

    women receiving their due, therefore, what is the problem of paying our

    uniformed members, what they deserve, regardless if they might slightly

    more than a civilian. I do not care for this competing attitude perpetuated

    by Rep. Hoyer. He should remember, if was not for our folks in Uniform,

    he might be in a concentration camp learning how to speak Arabic. I

    hope that I have made myself clear in this rant that favors our military, and

    lot our lazy Congress.

  131. depspouse says:

    I do not believe there is an accurate way to compare even two military people who have different career paths let alone throw in federal employees. Some military personnel sit at one duty station for 12 years working 40 hour weeks never deploying or going into the field while others move ever two or three years and are in constant rotation for deployment yet excluding haz duty pay, sep allow, and tax benefits they get paid the same. Yes, I do realize this can add up to be a substantial sum; however, most the time the one deploying does not get to choose whether they want to go and receive the extra pay. The only accurate way to compare the two systems is to compare like jobs. Even then you can only quantify what they receive not what is taken away i.e. time away from family, moving every three or so years, etc.

    I would like to point out that neither pay scale is a secret so federal employees and military personnel both know what they are getting into before they take the job. If they did not like it, no one made them sign on the line. The question really is not how the federal employee and military pay relates to each other, but whether their pay is fair or not for what they do.

    • So true!
      I had a First Sergeant in VA Bch go from Private to 1SG, and his first deployment (to GERMANY) was just before he reiterd. Me, on the other hand, I had to pack up every two- three years in order to make rank. I never had any savings, I was never able to buy a house, and now as a civilain, I am FINALLY able to save some money towards a retiement.

  132. These bean counters are a bunch of idiots. I got off active duty after 15 years because as a civilian I make more money, get more time off, and if I get tired of the job, I don't have a damn contract like I do in the Army! However, I stay as a Reservist because I love my soldiers, the adventure is nothing like ANY civilain job, and I love my Country, and if they could bottle that and sell it, there would be no reason to send us on multiple deployments! WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY, WE SERVE BECAUSE WE ARE PROUD, AND WE ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY, AND A WHOLE LOT MORE! I AM PROUD TO BE A SOLDIER!

  133. Bravo White Falcon says:

    I feel you could never compare military pay for 24/7-365 with any civilian job.

  134. soldierdad says:

    Apples and oranges comparison. Anyone who has any first hand knowledge of what members of our armed forces are called to do 24/7, clearly understands this comparison is truly ridiculous. No amount of compensation would be appropriate for what they are doing for us every day at home and abroad.

  135. Yeah the CBO, this is the same group that said the passage of the Health Care Reform was going to reduce the national debt right?

  136. Bigsargekas says:

    WHY DO POLITICIANS GET PAID SO MUCH MONEY????? I'm no liberal(conservative either), but if they want to take from the rich and give to the poor….look no further than D.C. It's sickening how much money, benefits and perks these liars and thieves receive on an annum!!!

  137. The difference is that the military people give up many of their basic freedoms to ensure freedom for the rest of the people in this country (civilians). Civilian workers in the government (for the most part) are free to leave when they choose. I believe there should definately be premium compensation for the loss of freedoms.

  138. I just want to see this same congressman push a study of how congressional pay/benefits/free meals/free hotels/free flights, etc compare to the civilian and military pay and lifestyle. Then we can talk about reality and who gets what!! Bet they don't "waste" our money on that study–oh and don't forget their retirement for the rest of their lives–oh and also their medical.

  139. Mostly great post except for the idiot demmielib who is still fixed on BUSSSSSSSSSH,
    Keep drinking the koolaid, maybe you will OD and blow up.
    get a life.

  140. Hard to disagree that the comparison is silly. Exactly what we've come to expect from our elected leaders. In defense of the civil service work force (I'm AF retired, and now in the private sector), most are only permitted to work 40 hours per week. Many (certainly not all) would gladly work longer if it meant performing a quality job they could be proud of. Pride is one of the major factors that sets the military far above our civilian citizens. What the unions used to accomplish is now mostly covered by law, so we need to get the unions out of the federal public sector.

  141. I can't believe that anyone can make this comparison. Firstly, the lower ranks in the military actually qualify for food stams. After having spent 20 years in the military, I find it hard to believe that military salaries and benefits are even close to comparable to civilian pay, especially based on the requirements of a military position versus a civilian job. There IS NO comparison. The only people that could possibly be foisting this propoganda on people are recruiters.

  142. hahwheeler says:

    So this sounds like to me that it's not bad enough to down size the Military and add to the unemployment line but possibly adding to the food stamp line. There's still military families on food stamps! So risking your life for your country isn't worth the pay check you recieve! What a complete utter BS! The Socialist Obama crew need to go! My fellow Vets and Active duty brothers and sisters take the one voice you have! Use your Vote and get these bastards out of office! Love you all and please be safe your country still needs you! Fair winds and Following seas! HT2(sw) Discharged do to down size!

  143. I frankly have no problem with military members receiving higher compensation than their civilian counterparts, if indeed any comparison between the two can be considered valid. They earn it.

  144. Congressional research is skewed, as usual. Justification for paying no attention to it has been well presented here. Getting rid of a million government employees would help Congress' fiscal challenges.

  145. L. Field (USA Ret) says:

    …. except for the part where you consider GETTING SHOT AT (plus all the other conditions of the environment , ie IEDs, very long work cycles, deployment stresses). A net cash out comparrison is rediculous!

  146. Congressman Hoyers, is overpayed compered to other postions of copmparitve vale. He gets a stafe an office expecise, all paid by the people and a pention for one turm when was the last time if ever that he put a uniform on and live on E2 pay.

  147. Civilian employees are paid overtime. I retired in 1998 and when counting all the hours I put in finally broke the minimum wage 2 years before when promoted to E-8. When comparing my earnings with a civilian counterpart in the private sector we discovered he made 3 times more over his 20 year career compared to mine with the same responsibility minus the frequent deployments and hostile environments. In simple language, I would have to work 60 years to make what he made in 20. Even if I were paid 100 percent of my active pay I would not live long enough to come close to equal his pay. If you believe in freedom you understand the sacrifices our military men and women for everyone's benefit. Try criticizing congressional pay for our elected representatives and their staff.

  148. Travelerusa40 says:

    If you want to SAVE money look at CONTRACTING AND R&D. Contracting is always under CONTRACTING find the purchases made under”SOLE SELECTION” this ie where special ops and any O6 think they have an immediate need so they purchas what ever when ever. R & D? this us flushed with congressman desires to bring big government manufacturing to small towns to make the congressman look like a HERO. Well the truth is YOUR KILLING SOLDIERS over common sense! The Congressman want to add this inthe budget known as an ear mark. You have O6 in the procurement afraid to say this product is ineffective congressman we need have tested this and it is ineffective. The congressman put so much pressure on the 06s that they just do it. Well after 100 million or billion dollars the local town are happy the Congressman is a God for pulling this off, but at what cost? The cost of a Soldiers Life. How many, I don’t know. But when they find this widget or part that completes this defective defect or product we have just saved a town until the next contract or congressional ear mark, we have know realized what a few key procurement leaders and congressman already new and recall and destroy 100 million a billion dollars worth of junk, and have left soldiers on the battle field. Yes, true American Heros that have saved an American town for how long? 1 year? 2 years, I don’t know but why doesn’t some look at everything that had been recalled due to an oversight in R&D and just ask your self ? Was it an oversight or was it an ear mark? Get more controls in place, find the expert per that area then you will make a real change. Who did this Great Finding that a lower enlisted MAKES MORE MONY THAN A GOV EMPLOYEE? ANYBODY IN THE ARMED FORCED COULD TELL YOU THIS AND HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY RAND OR WHOEVER? STOP THE BS YOUR BEING WATCHED!

  149. I see some posts from supposedly ex-military members who claim they received more than adequate pay for their service. Apparently many of these pseudo-military people don't realize the quarters allowance usually doesn't come close to covering rent and utilities even in areas receiving COLA. I was stationed in one place where the cheapest available quarters was eleven hundred dollars and utilities was another three hundred dollars. We did not receive COLA and my QA of seven hundred fifty dollars didn't come close. We lived within our means to make ends meet doing without.

  150. and I believe things cost at least twice as much.

  151. Yeah, the military makes more money: that's why so many of our military families are on food stamps and welfare!!!!

    • How about a study to see if congressmen and women are making too much? A dual status civilian technician working in a Army Reserve unit has to maintain their military status in order to keep their civilian job. Where in the civilian sector do you have to maintain height and weight and physical fitness standards in order to keep your job? Maybe law enforcement or some security entities. There is no overtime pay for a soldier when they have to get the job done and no union steward to complain to. However, the point was made that we decided to join and we chose the life style. So, the debate will continue from now to kingdom come. My only gripe is an elected official who continually votes raises for themselves want to take money from those who support his life style by putting their life on the line. What a joke!!!

    • Hellscreamgold says:

      If a military family is on food stamps and welfare, something isn’t right. Someone right out of boot camp makes around $1400 a month….if they are married, etc, and eventually get off-site housing, they also get a housing and food stipend.

      Hate to tell ya, but $1400 a month is well above the poverty range for a family of 2-3 people. Include in the housing and food stipends, and they are well above poverty levels and easily low middle income.

      So….if a military family somehow qualifies for food stamps and welfare, they must have an ******* of kids. And well, IMO, they shouldn’t be getting social services for their piss-poor planning, and us taxpayers shouldn’t have to make up the diff.

      Morons like Doctj need to learn some things before posting on the internet.

      • Hellscream. Join the military and you will realize we don’t get paid that much for how much we work. I get 6 days off a month and for 2 weeks a month 24/7 enduring that time working in the middle of a desert. I don’t go home after work enduring that time. They have contractors that work here and only work for 2 weeks a month. They get paid 2800$ for 2 weeks. I just got my W-2 and my end of year pay was 20k. I am single and the army provides me with one room that I share with someone else. Renting a room costs 300$ a month if that last I knew. I am not saying that we are poor. But it’s definitely not over paying for the hours we work and all the other **** we do ect.

      • Hellscream, you think you know allot but you are one of the Morons who needs to learn before posting on the internet. based off of what you think you know, $1400 is about $17k a year. Thats the equivalent of $8 an hour in the civilian world, which kids in high school make just as much if not more, without having to worry about all the dangers of the military. Now if you think you can support a family of 2-3 with $17k a year then your more ignorant than you think.

    • Douglas R. Siegel says:

      Thank you!

  152. "Dependant" says:

    A Non­par­ti­san study… is there such a thing? The Military should be paid more! Do civilians spend months waiting for their spouses to return and then leave again? Do their children attend 3 or even 4 high schools like my son has had do because of a deployment and a forced PCS move? We are a Navy family and we were not allowed to stay overseas while my husband was deployed for a year. We were forced to return stateside for a year without follow on orders. Then we had to move again after the year was up. My son has really struggled. But that is nothing compared to what many military families face .Did they factor in the income loss of the spouse do to mulitple moves? Most of the time civilians get the same if not better benifits then we do and do far less!

    • Amen…..thank you for everything you endore.

    • Shorty McGhee says:

      While I do agree that sometimes our lives are disrupted and hit rough spots. I do not agree that we should be paid more. I didn’t see anyone holding a gun to your head when you signed on that dotted line at the MEPS and I have never seen anyone hold a gun to someones head at a reenlistment ceremony. Yes, our lives may be disrupted, but this is the life we chose. Civilians don’t spend months waiting for their spouses to return from war becuase they chose a different life for themselves. It is the same situation for spouses. You chose to marry that man or woman in uniform and you must deal with what you chose. Honestly, I am sick and tired of this atmosphere of entitlement that spurrs from military life.

      • Thinking Wright says:

        You are correct. We do sign on that dotted line. However, the “intangibles” is what justifies the military member getting paid more than many civilian workers. If you were to try and pay an E-6 the civilian comparable pay which would probably be about 40k-45k/year he or she would become a federal civilian worker. I have been both and the civilian worker at that level will likely not be supervising anyone, not need to deploy for long periods of time, and not have to support short notice extended hours (because its against the union rules). The E-6 would likely be supervising 4 or more troops, deploy for 4-6 months per year (at least), and work short or no notice extended shifts (without overtime) whenever needed. This is why the military split positions and hired civilians into positions that did not need to do any of the above that your average E-6 would do. It is a cost savings to hire civilians for a non-essential military position but militants are maintained in positions that they need the duties of an E-6 to fulfill. Hopefully you can see that what i’m trying to tell you is if you were to try and pay the average E-6 at the same rate as a GS-7 you would not have a military. Most militants would do one tour, see they can get paid the same as a civilian for less “intangibles” incurred, and we would not have anyone probably above an E-4/E-5 willing to stick around for 2-3-4 tours of duty. How does a business (the military is a professional business) run without managers and leaders?

      • Experience says:

        Very interesting no one holds a gun to a civilian employee either. Military members choose to enlist or gain a commission based on their own personal lives. I would most say they serve with pride. They give up rights that most civilians don’t realize or understand. Free speech, freedom to wear our own clothes, have to shave , have short hair, no tattoos, and the list can go on. No enlistment/commission is and was a choice but I would venture to say it is pride that keeps them in. It is commitment to doing something achieving something, belonging and most of all proud to serve the people of this country not just the government but the people. Those people who stop you on the sidewalk to say thank you. They know that they sleep safe at night because of the military sacrifice to stay awake all night to insure they are. Can you put a price on one American life? Yes not all military members work the same hours or have the exact same job. Pay differences for job specifics should be adjusted through the military branches. The way the system is now looking at a office worker compared to a civilian office worker you might see a comparison but where do you find a civilian living in a tent eating MRE’s digging fox holes and not having any contact with family for months on end, exceptional but compensated for it maybe. The pay would not compare. So yes we volunteer but don’t forget our pay is calculated on a 24 hour clock. $30,000 per year looks good for accounting in reality that breaks down to $30000/8760= $3.42 per hour.

    • I like the line from the movie “The Right Stuff”, where the pilots’ wives are talking and Gordo’s wife says how her old college friends talk about how ‘dog eat dog’ and ‘cutthroat’ it was on wallstreet, and how they would feel if every time their husband walked into a meeting there was a one in three chance he wouldn’t come out alive. Yeah, NOW tell me that the military personnel and their families doesn’t deserve better, or why so many civilians can talk about “pressure” on the job and yet think that the military isn’t a “real job” with “real” skills.

  153. According to the article, it uses Basic Allowance for Housing as compensation. Go look at the size for the dorm rooms for E-1 and E-2s. Tell me where you can find and apartment that size in the civilian quarter. You can't. It's not allowed! There is really no fair way to compare military compensation with civilian compensation. They are two different roles entirely.

    Even if you took a military job with a civilian counterpart (aircraft maintenance), the aircraft worker punches a clock and goes home on schedule, collecting overtime for more hours worked. The soldier, sailr, airman or marine works till the job is done (8 hours, 12 hours, 16 hours or more) and receives the same paycheck each month! NO COMPARISON!

    • “Go look at the size for the dorm rooms for E-1 and E-2s. Tell me where you can find and apart­ment that size in the civil­ian quar­ter.” Um, yes, yes you can, and I did. As an E-3 stationed in Hawaii, I was allowed off post living due to overcrowding in the barracks. I looked at several studios and it did come down to what I could afford on my own little VHA w/o dependents. So… um, yeah, I disagree with your statement.

      As far as hours and pay are concerned, I can tell you as well that yes there were times where I had to pull a 50 hour week but rarely, and now, the soldiers that work under me, hardly get a 40 hr week and complain when they have to work a solid 8 hr day. Now as a Govt Civilian I am work in excess of 40 hrs and not getting paid any more than that because of budget cuts and understaffing combined. The compensation I get, Comp Time. When do I get to use it though during the365 days that it is valid, when we are so understaffed? Yeah, you see, everyone likes to moan and groan, but the truth is that we all have our own +/- that make things work for us. If my job was so bad I could always look for another one. If the military life is so bad, when your tour is over you just don’t reup. ‘Nuff said.

      • Less than 40 hrs a week? really!? Maybe they need to do some manning chages, but most of don’t work that few hours. While in the states, I pulled 24 hrs shifts (multiple) per week, and then some regular days as well. I could easily spent 60-80 hrs a week at work. Now that I’m deployed, I work 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Thats 84 hours for the math impaired. On top of that, I’m on call 24/7 as well, either here or back in the states.

        As far as “if the military life is so bad…” I don’t do it for the money, I do it because it needs to be done. But having enough money to take care of my families needs is important.

        Heck, in 2003 as a 2Lt, I qualified for foodstamps. As a college graduate and officer.

      • Gregb
        what was your job when you were in? I have been in a while and I have always put in more than 40 hours. PT in the mornings 5 days a week and then work 9 hours. I guess you never went on field exercises or deployed either? On field exercises the hours were long and sleep was little. You need to go to NTC and have fun there to really appreciate it. I support combat arms, I do everything the infantry does, I just need to be licensed to do my job. You had a nice poage job, why did you leave?

        • If your not 11B then you are a poage. Try being infantry at NTC. Every 2 weeks is a field problem. It sucks but all in all I still love my job

    • What about submariners it’s crazy for 80 a month more it’s about 120 hour weeks 18 hour days 6-8 hour wAtches good food but barracks are 14x10x8 for 3-4 men rarely do u get out in time in by 630 out by 8 ……every day also bah is taken completely if u live in housing so it should always count many people are on food stamps not allowed to get a second job and are being written up for their struggles because they are making the navy look bad while trying to take care of their family……it happens everyday ….ask somebody…they pay u for food take it all back pay u for housing then take it all back…… Grown man 3 kids making 750-800 bi weekly as an e1-3 is common even some e4 they max at 1000 bi weekly for the circumstances it’s not even enough in some cases…smh I would ask for another analysis

      • I am truly amazed about how many people think they are underpaid in the military. I would like anyone who is enlisted to find a better paying job in the civilian sector. A single E-2 with 6 months of duty living in Raleigh, NC (low BAH) takes home about $1200 biweekly. Get your facts straight. I have also known many sailors who lived on base and collected foodstamps and such but drove big new trucks and had a bar tab the size of a car payment. Some people do struggle, but most bring it on themselves. People should take responsibility for their finances.

        • Hey big navy last time I was in, the command wouldn’t let someone apply for bah/bas until they made NCO. Btw I didn’t see 1200 biweekly until I made e4 with high bah… So I think your full of ****.

        • Douglas R. Siegel says:

          Big navy. We do serve because it is a way of life that we believe in. True! And we don’t complain until some one that has no service back ground rattles the chain. We love what we do and we agree that some of the rear echelon troops have it good. However, not allthe troops have it so easy. And we could always get out and become civilians and get rehired as mercenaries. We would make triple the money we make now. Would you be willing to pay then?

  154. Ret. Major says:

    I am impressed by the quality of the comments, especially compared to those on other sites. I served 36 years in the Army Guard with Active Army tours. I concurrently taught school for 32 years (high school and college students). It is very difficult to compare a military job to a civilian job–federal or civilian. In my unique civilian job in teaching and operating broadcast media, I was also on call and sometimes on duty 24/7. My teaching required many more hours than the 7 1/2 in our contract, my records showed over 60 hrs per week on average. When on military duty it was an around the clock duty. As a teacher I was physically attacked twice and had to work under the threat of physical attack by unruly students. (My school's administrators didn't maintain school discipline well in the final years of my experience.) But in the military I was never attacked overseas or stateside–but is was always a possibility. That situation is another of those intangibles. You never know what someone else has to deal with unless you walk a mile in their shoes.

  155. They did forget to mention that the pay is only similar, if you're married. If you are single, your pay is cut in more than half!!!! Married E-5: 2,800 a pay check if you're in hawaii. Single E-5: around 1,050 a paycheck.

  156. LTC Patriot says:

    Pappy; You need to get your fact Right! The Dems controlled the congress from 2006 until this month. The Reed-Pelosi "Drunken Sailor" spree is the primary and lead reason we are in a fiscal mess that all our Grandchild will mock us for. If the other Americans who failed to wake up this past November finally get a clue in 2012 … we'll have the repeat of the 1980 elections that is our only hope for the future!

  157. I served in the US ARMY for 6 years and now work for the federal govement the military are on duty 24-7 and dont have the choices that civlilans have. the military solider has to do what to do what hes told. ive been working for the federal goverment since the 80's and what i see going on.the federal govement, is hiring people who have no ideal what it means to be a solider or to have served or care about the ones that are in or have served. when you have walked miles in a soliders boots then you can report or compare. alot of federal civilan workers get hired because they have the education, or know someone, not because they served and have been in the trenches. unless you are or have been a solider dont talk about it be about it. do whats right. the solider is not paid enough for what he has to do for his country or what his family is taken thru.

  158. Retired MARINE says:

    We all know that the only ones crying about what little we recieve for retirement each month and what little bit the active and reserve personnelrecieve monthly isn't even a drop in the barrel that civilians recieve monthly.I had one of those civlian GS workers working with me at MCAS New RiverNC and he made more than anyone in the unit including the Base Commander. He went home at 1630 (4:30 PM civilian time) every day.Those of us on active duty worked in 12 hour shifts 24/7/365 and did not nor do any service members ever get one minute of over time IT WAS AND IS OUR JOB TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY. all the big wage earners in DC want is to put more money in their pockets at the expence of the Military. If I could  would gladly return to active duty and go back into combat again even though I am disabled if nessessary  in order to keep this country safe. These idiots who run their mouth against us (yes I still am a MARINE 100% and will be until I die) need to be put in our possission, HA they would refuse to go .even if they were forced to. Probably would scream foul I am to important to go anyhere. They make more money in one year than most military make in 3 years. LEAVE THE MILITARY ALONE.

  159. All of you quit bitchin and get back to work. A bitchin GI is a happy GI.

  160. Retired MARINE says:

    Rep. Hoyer and his croneys in DC need to start taking less from us and start taking from the big company CEO's and congress members who make more in one year than any military member makes in four (4) years. A four (4) star general does not make near what those thieves make. Better yet send all of them into combat for a year.Military personnel give their lives for this Country and all anyone wants to do is take from them. And GOD forbid that a member of the military get disabled because thay are then treated like dirt.

  161. No comparison. What is the combined military death toll in the last few years compared to GS workers. Enough said.

  162. I am retired Military and that should not even be a comparison. With all the moving, frequent trips to Iraq and other not so great places the young soldiers are not paid nearly enough. They absolutely have no life and if they have a family they sacrifice a lot. Not to mention some of their lives are ended at a young age or they are severely wounded that it affects the rest of their life. I just can't believe it was even be mentioned that they are paid to much.

  163. i am retired AF enlisted…… I have only one thing to say. I went in making about 600 a month. i left with making about 1500 a month. Now does any know a civil service job that can double your pay in 20 years??????…… now there is a study…… but at least i didn;t have to pay for medical expences when i was in…

  164. Steny Hoyer is in the pockets of the Civil Service Unions. He has insisted on a pay raise for the civil service employees equal to any proposed raise for the military for decades. In effect he has piggy backed any support for the military to get raises for the civil service whether deserved or not. The office I was in while on active duty allowed the GS14s and GS15s to write their own justification for up to $15.000 bonuses each year. When is the last time a person in the military got a bonus. Also another thing that irritated me was the difference in relocation allowances for civil servants versus the military. Check it out, their benefits are huge compared to the military. Of course they move less than the military and the military could not afford to pay the same, but the point is is it fair! Another sore point is that the military faces a mandatory retirement, usually right at the prime time of their career, needed for a vibrant military, but is it fair in comparison to our civil service brothers and sisters! My son worked at the Dept of Education and he said you had to watch out a 4 p.m or get trampled in the halls as the civil servants exited the building.

  165. MGySgt?USMC/Retired says:

    "Creative Finance is a Lost Art."

    I have been actively engaged in Military PAy and Allowances since 1964 and I am here to tell you that we "never" received compensation for what we had to do in the name of "Providing for the Common Defense."

    Whoever did the report must have missed most of his Economics and Finance courses on his way to getting a degree in BS.

    It is my belief that the outcome of the report was determined Before the report was written in a brazen, bold, and I hope futile effort to 1) give the current Sec. of Defense an honorable way to retire from active bureaucracy without admitting he was part of the Bush White House who sold us down the river and 2) misdirect any Federal Oversight by those who actually know what is going and has gone on, from nailing him to the barn door.

  166. MGySgt/USMC/Retired says:

    part 2 to "Creative Finance is a Lost Art"

    Civilians, who have never served in the Armed Forces, have absolutely no idea of the realities and extent of Military Govenment Service. With the possible exception of Fire Fighters, Undercover Alphabet Law Enforcement and Intelligence…and I use the term by the dictionary definition not as is often portrayed in the NEWS…Officers in the Field and on Foreign Soil.

    To have a report made by those who have no real experience, I believe, in the actual subject or scope of the report is absurd.

  167. If you think it's such a good deal why don't you enlist.

  168. E-6 Retired says:

    Plain and simple, there is NO comparison. But do take into consideration the better retirement of GS. They can use military time to increase there's but not visa-versa. All the others comments cover almost everything so won't repeat……….

  169. The military enlisted starts out pay wise as a dismal untrained employee and as his skills and rank improve along with benefits can support a family and live reasonably well, at present much better than many civilians. This does not take into account that many in the military are subject to 24/7 in conditions that semi skilled civilians are not normally subjected to.

    My four years in the military subjected me to three combat zones and a lot of recon that certainly tested all my training, my accumulated pay made my family a bit more comfortable but I can tell you my civilian life has been a hell of a lot more prosperous including my retirement and I never again worked for the government after my discharge. I really don't think that civilian life is comparable with the life of a military person and the pay recieved in the military is one of choice and the honor to serve.

    The best to our troops…..

  170. Ultimate SeaBee says:

    I bet 3warLTC voted for Ubangie!!!!

  171. DDietleMSGTUSAFRet says:

    I spent 23 years on active duty serving in the US Army and the US Air Force and am now a federal officer and have to say, IT'S ABOUT TIME.

  172. Let him be the one to dodge a few rounds, be wary of IED's. better yet, be a parent who has had not one but two over there, and get that phone call from a post operative child who was injured in an IED incident.[ am thankful that it wasn't a knock on the door. Having been military I know what that knock means.] So before you rant about the pay differences,put yourself in their boots and man up. Basically they are deffending your right to make statements like that…put up or shut up.

    • My sons are both active duty and a daught in law is reserve. Show me a civilian that is called upon to go from point A to point B in less then a 12 hr notice. She me a civilain,police and fire fighters excluded,that will do what these men and women are asked to on a moments notice.. I have had to pack an mergency bag several times. I have also been there when the orders have been handed down to move out.. My grandchildren have seen their dad come and go more time then they should have to. So for this rep to make a big deal about the military making more then civilains..he needs to drop whatever it is he does, lace up a pair of boots, grab a pack and weapon and go where ever he is ordered to.Then ask why the pay difference

  173. I am in the Navy and have been for 10 years. I returned last year from a 1 year tour in Afghanistan at a detainee center.

    With the raised tricare fees that happen almost every year at some point, the increased dental fees, and in many areas the decrease in housing allowances many people in the lilitary took a pay cut this year.
    Oh, almost forgot, I take orders on what to wear, when to wear it, and have very little say into my daily routine.
    Am I asking for more money? No. What I want is for people to quit comparing us to the civilian sector/ federal sector.
    Just keep getting all your holidays off and seeing your families every night , relax knowing you are safe and will not be shot at or bombed, eat what you wish, go where you want and leave us alone.
    Just thank us for what we do and carry on with your lives.

    • Your statement about TRICARE fees is completely off the mark. When was the last time the fees were raised? Once. When the TRICARE Prime program started and established the enrollment fee for retired enrollees. And that fee is $460 a year. Sounds like a lot when you have not had to pay any premiums for the most comprehensive health plan in the country, but my premiums for self only health insurance w/Blue Cross as a fed employee are about $200 per MONTH. That said — I have nothing but admiration for our active duty military who are the most deserving and often unappreciated Americans. Thank you for all you do! I especially admire our young enlisted troops who seem to do the most dangerous and exhausting jobs. Long hours and low pay beats unemployment, but appreciation goes a long way! Perhaps a restructure of the pay to reduce the growth in the top-heavy ranks where O-6′s with over 20 years can afford to have their pay frozen much more easily than can the E-4 with a family to feed. Thank you for all you do to protect us!!

  174. I was away from my wife and son the whole time, I averaged 14 hours a day 6 days a wek, (84hours a week.) The base was frequently bombed, including the building I worked in. There was no city to go and relax in or decompress in. After I hurt my back I was told I probably had a herniated disc but they had no MRI's available there so was told to wait until I got home. "in the meantime all we can do is medicate you." I was given muscle relaxers, pain killers and ambien cr, my living space was a plywood hut with very little privacy and a broken heater. Afghanistan is very cold and I went to slepp many nights able to see my breath, we had mice in the hut with us and I went to the bathroom in a port-a-potty the whole time.
    Not to mention daily hands on close quarters work with known terrorists.
    While I do not do this for money it sickens me to hear about how we are even or better than the civilian sector.

  175. In a free market place the only way to make these comparisons is to look at turnover or retention. If the military pay gets too much higher than what those folks can earn, all things considered, than retention goes way up and turnover goes way down. If Federal employee turnover takes a dive, then it's an indication that compared to other civilian jobs their pay needs adjustments. The fact that Federal employee turnover is very low compared to private sector indicates they are not underpaid. Occasionally military retention is higher than needed, but usually (as is the case today) it is not and bonuses are required to help keep enlisted folks in. Senior officers (O-5/O-7) may be in a different category, but jr.-mid grade enlisteds are not overpaid.

    Ret. O-6

  176. D.J. Woodburn says:

    Comparing civilian employment to military duty is comparing apples and oranges. Anyone saying different only need to look at the whole picture, injuries, illnesses, wounds, deaths and how many people lives are instantly and permanently altered by an action that takes place on the job! Military pay and benefits would not be equalled should they be doubled or tripled! Apples and oranges my friend!

  177. Blackwater employees have it easier than many military and how does their salary compare to the military? What other civilian job is comparable to a military E-1 to E-6 paygrade.

  178. VicIsSickofliars! says:

    This is a total bogus report. I served as a GS-10 first then a Active duty, from E-6-8 I made less as active duty, almost 30% less. They are re-arranging the numbers to justify screwing the active duty out of their retirement…..dang them liars!
    They are using the tax exempt pay to justify their freakin bullshit!!!! My final pay of 52k per year does NOT match my civilian counterparts who make 75K, sure they pay alot in taxes…duh…BUT they also have a TSP plan for retirement…see this is their way to screw the active duty!! Active duty want a retirement plan then join their TSP and PAY into it!!! Now that extra money you had to live a decent life is gone, cause now you have to pay into a retirement program….such damn liars!!! Someone please Choke that committee to death!!!

    • VicIsSickofliars! says:

      ok my numbers are off, but E1-7 does NOT make the same or more period. my counterparts made 59k to 69k plus they had location pay also. The point is simple, they are doing anything they can to screw our troops. This in NOT a democrat or liberal issue, This is ALL repukes, NOT paying the bills but hurting those who are NOT strong enough to defend and fight back. FIrst thing they need to do is cut their pay and pay back that 2.6 trillion that was in social security…remember money they used to pay for a war(s)?!

  179. I would just about guarantee that the CBO figured the sailor’s work week on about a 40 hour week (or close to it). Try running the numbers based on 18 hour days, seven days a week when at sea.

    PS: How many of the civilian workers are getting shot at; killed in airplane crashes; washed overboard; or shipboard fires? Not many I suspect.

  180. I understand that the average citizen has no understanding of the difference between a GS or Pogue but after serving my country for a little more than 24 years as an Infantryman I think that something that they have no idea what it takes to defend this country

  181. Wow, I believe a lot of you are out in left field on this and really don’t understand how the two systems differ. I retired in 2007 as an E-8 w/21 1/2 years of service. When I retired, I had civilian job offers and I was selected for E-9. I looked long and hard at the differences in the pay and retirement structures. For me, it came down to getting on w/the new and letting go of the old; staying would have prolonged the inevitable – Military Retirement. Now, I am glad I left and it has worked out for me.

    As a Military member, you DO have to consider the tax benefits, the health care benefits, time off (72 & 96 hour weekends, 30 days per year; and no one, I mean no one, in the military takes leave for one day off), etc. When I did a straight numbers crunch, considering the factors listed above, I established that by the time I lost base pay, BAH, commuted rations, pay a **** of a lot more taxes, and included health care premiums, I would need a GS-11/step 1 position, plus my E-8 retirement pay, JUST to equal my total pay benefits package while in the military. So, if I wanted to get ahead of my military career, I would need a position that exceeded a GS-11/Step 1. Now, I was fortunate enough to do that and I have gotten ahead.
    With (active-duty) military retirement, I started receiving it the month after I retired. Other than my service, I provided no contributions, the sum of my retirement is not dependent on the stock market, and I didn’t have to wait until a particular age to collect it.

    As a Gov’t employee, I will only receive 1.1% of my pay (per year), if I work for the Gov’t more than 20 years, otherwise it will 1% per year if I leave Gov’t service sooner (vice 2.5% per year for military). If I want to collect a Gov’t retirement w/o it being further reduced, I have to wait until I am at least 57 yoa. If I want to get matching funds for my TSP, I have to contribute to the TSP and then my earning potential is stock market based (the military can and I did (while on Active Duty), contribute to the TSP as well). The third portion of the FERS retirement is Social Security Based (which applies to military personnel also).
    When I entered Gov’t service, I lost boat loads of free time off. I only received 4 hours of leave per pay period to start (or about 2 wks leave, vice 30 days military leave). If I want to take one day or a few hours off, I have to submit for leave.

    Also, when I entered into the Gov’t, because of my organization and my job field, I had to sign a mobility agreement saying I would PCS or deploy if the Gov’t needed me to. I was given “orders” (not invitations) for an Iraq deployment (where I am still at) this past September. I had less than 30 days to prepare my family, affairs, and conduct pre-deployment training (like Military members do) and be into theater. While I am out here, you can rest assured, if you’re a DoD Civilian, you’re not the priority to the military and I receive ZERO (I repeat ZERO (0%)) tax benefits as the military and contractors do. I am on orders to Iraq (again – After being here as Active Military) because the Gov’t has converted my Job Field to nearly all Civilian and it is still needed/required in the forward operating environment. My Daughters (one of whom is a senior) & Wife are enduring the same separation concerns and hardships as any other deployed Military members (except all of those nifty support functions that are advertised on AFN only apply to Military Personnel & families and not deployed civilians).

    If you haven’t deployed in a while, come to Iraq and see where the USF-I would be w/o deployed Civilian Federal Employees working 12-18 hour days.
    I would offer that unless you’ve been truly on both sides of the fence, don’t try to make a logical comparison. I am by NO MEANS saying military personnel should not continue to receive pay & benefits increases; it’s just that there is and always will be differences in benefits, some of which can easily be compared and some that cannot. I am very fortunate for the position I have and truly enjoy continuing my service to the Government and Military.

  182. Maybe Hoyer wants to initiate the ‘Draft”..take away benefits and freeze pay(while inflation catches up with military pay again) and nobody will want to join..especially once the economy picks back up and jobs become available.

  183. So if the military isn’t paid enough and civilians are paid more? Why aren’t people separating and working for the civilian sector? Wouldnt that be the smarter of the two?

  184. And the military uses their pay structure and benefits to retain people saying its better….so DONT leave and reenlist. And then they say they arent paid enough in these forums?

  185. If you want a fight, just mess with a Soldiers , country, family, food, and MONEY!!!!! Just keep it up congress, our voting block is larger then any union that supports you.

  186. Climb to Glory says:

    I am an E7/SFC on active duty at Fort Drum. I don’t see any civilian employees picking up Joe from the MPs at 2 A.M. If you are not married you don’t get BAH and if you livc in the barracks you can’t receive BAS. Many Soldiers get married much earlier then they should due to the extra pay. That’s why we have alot of domestic violence problems in the army. The civilians need to go back to school because their math skills need help.

    • You’re falsely representing that military members do not receive BAH and BAS compensation because they live in a barracks. They are compensated for housing and food. They are provided housing, electric, water, sewage, trash, probably cable, cleaning supplies, probably linen & blankets, and depending on their duty station, maybe even internet. They are also provided with a dining facility for which they can eat in 3-4 times per day (if mid-rats are prepared), for free. Even if they blow/waste the rest of their money and are broke for the rest of the month (no worries, a roof and food).

      Take the avearage salary, factor in tax and healthcare benefits (which are substantial), add on “provided” housing and food provisions, of unskilled (or apprentice level) 18-22 year old E1-E4. Now, compare that to the pay & benefits of an equally skilled (or college student) civilian. You will find for that catagory, the military member is compensated substantially better than their civilian counter-parts.

      Most military personnel do not fully understand or appreciate the value of their “ENTIRE” pay and benefits package until they get out or retire

      • Climb to Glory says:

        I understand what you are trying to say but until recently single Soldiers did not get their own rooms. In the army Soldiers do not get linen, cable or internet. There is a different standard between the services. The Air Force having the highest standards of living. As a current Platoon Sergeant on active duty, I know exactly what my Soldiers get compensated for. An entry level doesn’t deploy for a year to 15 months. Civilians do not pull 24 hour duty several times a months or have to pass an Army Physical Fitness Test every 6 months just to keep their jobs. They don’t have to pickup their subordinates from the MP station or civilian authorities at 0200 in the morning. Civilians don’t have to wake up 0530 daily track their subordinates whereabouts and conduct physical training in the elements. Civilians don’t spend days and sometimes weeks in the field, training in elements. Get your facts straight before you question me.

        • Son, short of the linen, cable, and internet, you did not refute one point I made. I only retired from the Marine Corps as a Master Sergeant in 2007. You’re preaching to the choir here, because my facts are facts. Prior to my retirement, I even had the misfotune of being assigned to an (operational) Army base, where it was easy to see that Soldiers were coddled and “Standard of Living” was a primary concern of the Army leadership. Not a problem, while in Garrison, it should be a big priority.

          You are arguing symantecs when you pull out linen, cable, and internet are not provided; those things are cheap and/or luxuries anyway. But, the fact is – you do receive the rest.

          The difference between you and I; I have been on both sides, you have not. I assure you, when you move to the civilian sector, you will long for the days when you could just arbitrarily cut out for an afternoon w/o taking leave, have time built in your day for physical fitness; receive 30 days leave per year, or not pay health care premiums or deductibles. And, those troops aren’t a burden, you will miss them too…

          Oh, one more thing, I am writing this from Baghdad, Iraq… While you’re at home, please think about my family whom I didn’t see during the holidays.

          S/F Mac!

  187. Larry Walters says:

    Yes the military makes more money then the Feds because the difference is the military,s life is on the line 24/7/365. As a retired Fed employee GS12, I can turn down unwanted assignments…..they can’t. I am retired from the AF and civil service.

  188. i am a federal civilian employee/full time Air National Guard member. I dont think we make enuff pay comparded to my active duty bother and sisters. I am on call 24/7 with my job and get no extra pay for it, i dont get free health care. i have to pay for my health care and benifits. i have to take leave anytime im put on orders. i am always ready to go when a tdy comedown. i am a E-5 military and a WG-10 civilian pay grade. I make a least $2000 dollars less a month than my active duty E-5 that is doing the same job as me. I’ve been in the military for 12 years and deployed more times than most of my friends in active duty. We do not get paid overtime. We are lucky if we get comp time for anytime after are 9hr work day.

  189. Dave Morris says:

    I spent 8 yrs active duty, got out and joined and retired from the reserves so I have seen both sides of this arguement. This artical brought up overtime and if I worked for a company and recieved overtime and was required to be there and not at home I would recieve overtime weather I was working or on standby waiting to start my next assignment. I was forced to stay during a blizzard until the next morning, 32hrs pay, 16 of it overtime, 8 of it sleeping as the contract give an eight hour break after 16 hours.
    The point I am getting at is I bet this artical does take into consideration the overtime I would get for being on deployment.
    Even if we did not get paid O.T. for the time away from home on deployment we work a lot more than 40 hours a week.
    I am not complaining just pointing out a fact.

  190. Why is there never a report on how much congress and the senate make. How about a report on their expenditures and benefits to see if they are over paid. Leave our military pay and benefits alone. They and retirees included deserve their pay and benefits if not more. Put yourself in their shoes and your life on the line and I guarantee you will not complain and be more than willing to give what is deserved. Thank you

  191. If the military is getting paid more now it is about time. When I was active, after Vietnam, we were like 2nd class citizens in this country and were paid very little compared to civilians. I could never understand the comparison since most GS (not all) never even come close to time and hours spent serving. Remember in the military you go and do what you are ordered without question or choice. As far as entitlement, single junior enlisted rarely received BAQ and BAS. Maybe they should just bring in the draft then we can reduce pay and everyone gets a go in the gulf region.

  192. Lets not forget that we are 24 x 7 and our pay is based on that fact. When deployed to the AOR we work 12 to 16 hour days under fire and having to walk through **** that most americans would never do.

    The comparison is flawed to that degree alone and now will come the grand military pay reduction efforts because the Democrats hate the military and our national security. Remember Al Gores out sourcing of the military resources to contractors, or the draw down by Clinton that made us weaker and vulnerable to attack. Remember 9/11 is a direct reflection of the Clinton / Gore years.

  193. I read somewhere, someone suggested that congressional officials should be paid like the military. Maybe five grand for the first two years in congress, six grand for years three and four, 65oo dollars a month for less than six. Instead of winning and election and coming right into 174,000K a year. I agree with that suggestion. This would force politicians to serve the people who put them there at least the majority and not the party they show loyality to…Serve the people.

  194. Hellscreamgold has no ideal what it is all about to be in the military nor does the congressional officials because they make the rules and then like someone else said that civilian’s (government) does not go though what the military does, but the next thing they will say is, “You joined the military”, now what I have to say to them, who would be pertecting them, that is when the Draft comes back into play, myself and my wife both feel that the military does not get paid enough and should get a raise each and every year. I am sick and tired of hearing these people say these things and not to know what they are talking about, first thing how many Tank drivers in the civilian work, or how about loading bombs on planes and so on. For those that think they know what the military does and get paid let them do what all of you go though, (myself when I was in before being Retired under Medical), also how many of the civilians have bullets fling by. FOR ALL OF YOU THAT ARE IN STILL THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND I WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT YOU AND VETERANS.
    Ret.

  195. Hellscream­gold has no ideal what it is all about to be in the mil­i­tary nor does the con­gres­sional offi­cials because they make the rules and then like some­one else said that civilian’s (gov­ern­ment) does not go though what the mil­i­tary does, but the next thing they will say is, “You joined the mil­i­tary”, now what I have to say to them, who would be per­tect­ing them, that is when the Draft comes back into play, myself and my wife both feel that the mil­i­tary does not get paid enough and should get a raise each and every year. I am sick and tired of hear­ing these peo­ple say these things and not to know what they are talk­ing about, first thing how many Tank dri­vers in the civil­ian work, or how about load­ing bombs on planes and so on. For those that think they know what the mil­i­tary does and get paid let them do what all of you go though, (myself when I was in before being Retired under Med­ical), also how many of the civil­ians have bul­lets fling by. FOR ALL OF YOU THAT ARE IN STILL THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND I WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT YOU AND VETERANS. I have not read to many of these and this is the first time bloging about anything.
    Ret.

  196. Jason Wells says:

    I have to admit I’m a little concerned. How long are servicemember going to whine about pay? We are paid fairly. Is our job difficult? YES! Do some people get paid more for doing less? YES! That doesn’t matter. I don’t not want anyone to take from someone else and give to me. I’m am in the military to serve my country. The pay tables are no secret. If you want more money work hard and get promoted. If you can’t get promoted and feel that your pay is too low then get out.
    This country is broke. It isn’t fair. The military isn’t to blame, but that is the way it is. The American people cannot afford to pay you a huge salary.
    The American servicemember is admired for his or her sacrifices. Don’t tarnish that image with your complaining that you aren’t paid enough.

  197. Yeah 20k for 24/7 kicking in doors risking everything, totally fair.

    • I am all for fairly compensating military members, but come on…

      It’s simple then…get out! Recruiting isn’t a problem!

      See what a Police Officer makes in middle America..same risks…

      E-4 Median Compensation – 3 years service

      Basic Pay $19,983.60 $19,983.60
      BAS $2,913.72 $2,913.72
      BAH $8,496.00 $10,920.00
      Cash Total $31,393.32 $33,817.32
      Tax Advantage $2,013.48 $1,696.20
      Regular Military
      Compensation $33,406.80 $35,513.52

      If the servicemember isn’t receiving cash for BAH/BAS, he’s still receiving the benefit, for which he doesn’t have to shell out cash for. You might not like that tax advantages are calculated in, but it’s a fact, IT’s BIG… This scale also doesn’t include healthcare premiums that civilians pay and military members do not…which could be as much as %500 a month for a family of four.

      The scale above also does not include other special pays/bonuses service members might receive based on skills or duty assignments.

      Does anyone here really think an uncollege educated 21 year old (even if they’re in the military), is worth more than this? Does anyone really think there are many (equally skilled and educated) Federal Civlian Employees out there making this same compensation at 21 years old?

      • Experience says:

        $35,513.52/8760 = 4.05 per hour. No civilian in thier right mind would work for that hourly rate.

        • Ya, tou’re being foolish now… I spent 21 1/2 years in the Marine Corps and NO service member works like that either… If you are working that much continously, you’re a fool for staying…

  198. Greetings fat bodies, those who can’t spell worth a D***, and to those other ones who have never been in the military.

    I just want to say why are you complaining? Who gives a **** how much this person makes or that person makes? Grab life by the horns and get everything you can out of it! Why should everything in the world be FAIR?!?!

    I was in the Army for six ****** years, and I made the best of it. I had my 24 hour duties on the weekend with no comp time and still had to get up at 0500 to go do Physical training on Monday morning. I’ve pulled my 36 and 48 hour work days to get the mission accomplished because the job needed to get done, it needed to get done right, and I knew that if I quit for a while the person picking up where I left off would SCREW it ALL up and would have to start all the way over. Did I complain? Sure. But you know what? Who gives a skunk’s rear end.

    You know what I hear on this long winded board?

    WAA, WAA, WAA!

    Do something besides friggin whine you **** ********! If you don’t like the military then GET THE **** OUT!!! That’s what I did! Now I get paid big bucks to do much less! Oh, yeah!

    So in short: SFTU and make the best with what you got. Or you friggin whiners can just keep asking for a handout and comparing each other’s handout. Losers.

  199. This debate will go on forever, but I will say just one thing. If the congress decides to make the military its whipping boy as it has done so many times in the past, then be ready to see a mass exodus from the military and a return to the draft. The actions of the current administration is a recipe for disaster in our military. The repeal of DATD, the downsizing of the military’s strength and the cutting of the budget including the freezing of pay and benefits, the constant extending and multiple deployments for units that have been sent in harms way, are all going to take their toll on the last super power of the world. While all this is taking place the Chinese are building their military and expanding their presence throughout the world to become the next super power. So, when the U.S. is at its weakest and the once proud military is reduced to a second rate super power, the world will have to find a new savior.

  200. K. Foster says:

    The biggest thing we can do is to take away that pension that Congressmen get after they serve. I have heard that they don’t pay into social security because of this? Take away their security blanket and make them like everyone else and watch their how they vote change? Now back on track. Do government employee spend time in the field training all year, run PT every day, perform maintence on their vehicles, jump out of airplanes, on call 24/7, on and on. If they think the pay is unfair then join the military….but oh noooo!.. can’t do that! Good grief!!!!!

  201. datafreak says:

    Were is the study comparing federal civilian pay to the rest of America? Or military pay to civilians? I thought there was a huge gap there. This study really means nothing otherwise.

  202. Harry Stevens says:

    I have listened to you poor broke people who continue to complain about what we get in the military and it makes me sick.I was drafted my first hitch,the next six hitches I was a volenteer ,my four brothers didn,t have my option,my baby brother died from agent orange before his 41st birthday,so how much is too much?what we need is to bring back the draft ,close the borders so you can,t run and get you and your coattail polititians on the front lines for 2-4 Yrs then you would understand what goes on in the real world of the military.Freedom has never been free.28 Yr..Vet.To my comrades,Thank you.

    • As a 21 year vet thank you for your service, and send the politicians to the front lines to see just what the price of fredom realy is.

  203. Dale Freeman says:

    I agree, they need to restart the draft so people like Hoyer have to serve so they know what it’s like how about hoyer recommending that they freeze their pay for two years.

  204. Jim Poole, USN (Ret.) says:

    Rep Hoyer was looking for “facts” to support his position. He should be horsewhipped.

  205. Charles Ream USMC Retired says:

    If they want to freeze the military pay then also freeze them from any deployment for the two years.Semper Fi Thank You Vets for your service

  206. There is no way to compenstate for the long hours /ratio of death on the job/ sacrifice of dependents for lack of stability in raising a family/unreasonable retirement compensation/which denies the ability to save for the future and time to invest in the 401 K programs or stock market or to retain a homestead for future value. The Federal Employees work a comfortable work pattern that allows for health maintenance and the military moves at the directions of the need to protect the Federal Employee , so he or she can retire healthy and live longer. After I served over 20 years of Military Service I find my fellow Military members are dying faster than I can maintain records, while the retired federal employees enjoy cruises and prolonged life. I do no recall any federal employee statistics on agent orange cancer, so I can assume they did not serve in those locations. The PTSD problem is not a problem of the Federal Employee nor is the lose of limbs or body internal organs.
    The Military is Volunteer and Patriatic and we should consider the sacrefices in our calculations.
    GWG USMC Retired

  207. Douglas R. Siegel says:

    Leave it up to a so called true patriot who has no idea of what service to our country really means.
    It is people like him that have run this country into a third world state and then blame the men and women who serve this country for being broke.
    I am ashamed to say that I serve so that people like him can reap the benefits.
    I served 22 years. I bet he served not a day. But benefits from our service so that he can back stab services. Get rid of him!

  208. Michael Diotte says:

    It’s about time they pay our Military Service members what they deserve. We should remind our dear Congressman the price of freedom is not cheap. The high tech equipment our Congress purchases takes educated individuals to operate. Maybe individuals like himself should grab his musket and sword, jump on his horse and go fight. Oh wait, he wouldn’t be able to go far because he’d have to be home for a nice dinner and a shower. I spent over 20 years in the Air Force not making enough money, I can’t recall anyone ever complaining about our counter parts in the Federal Government making more than the service members. It’ about time the Military Service members are compensated better. I think they should look at Congressional pay and see if they are over compensated. What in the world is wrong with these people? Our Military Service members could never be compensated enough.
    for the service they perform. I want to thank every US Military Service member, past and present for their service to the greatest country in the world. Without their sacrifices, Rep Hoyer wouldn’ t work in Washington.

  209. Bob Marks says:

    Back when Reagan was President CEO’s were paid 27 times the average worker now they make 270 times with far less taxes to pay. Pay the military 270 times what they were paid in the eighties and then freeze everyones pay.

  210. We don’t need to bring back the draft; we need to make prior military service a prerequisite for federal elective office. We require the president and members of Congress be of a certain age and there’s no reason we can’t amend on an additional requirement.

  211. Ray Wetherington, USN(Ret.) says:

    Only a “Dumb-o-crat would make such idiotic comparisons. Why in God’s name do we continue to elect these kind of people to positions of power and expect anything other than this kind of appreciation(or lack of it) for those who spend the better part of their lives ensuring America remains “free, proud and productive”.

  212. John Lemon says:

    I'm retired Air Force. Over my 20 years I watched civilians who worked for the Air Force. Airmen were on duty 24/7. The civilians worked a 40 hour week and got paid over time. Civilians can strike if they don't like their working conditions. The joke around our office was, "How can you tell the civilian? He's the one with the coffee mug in one hand and a clipboard in the other." But they guys who really piss me off are the DV's. (Congressmen, Cabinet Members etc.) My job in the AOR was in ATOC. We had quite often DV's that wanted to "assess the morale of the troops in the area." John Murtha came to PSAB once. He was supposed to RON but after he did the tour of the base he left because it was too hot. Then we found out the real reason why DV's visit the AOR. If they spend just 24 hours in a hostile zone, they get their pay for the month tax free and they get hazardous duty pay. Just 24 hours! All the perks we had to be in the AOR for 45 days to be eligible for. What's wrong with thsi picture?

    • Let's not over exaggerate on how hard service members work. I speak from experience. I was medically separated and I come from a military background, including my dad, my stepdad, nearly all of my uncles, my sister, my husband, and my brother in-law. I have experience in the operations of all four major branches.

      It is true that the military works more than 40 hours per week, but that is mostly if you are including PT and if they are preparing for deployment. For the most part, enlistees work 9-5 with 1.5 lunch. And let's not forget about the additional days off per month…the extra 3 or 4 day weekends that the military often enjoy.

      Furthermore, it's funny to me that the Air Force would make a joke about civilians when, compared to other branches of the military, they are the joke!! There is no branch as relaxed than the Air Force!

    • Charles says:

      John Lemon,

      "Then we found out the real reason why DV's visit the AOR. If they spend just 24 hours in a hostile zone, they get their pay for the month tax free and they get hazardous duty pay. Just 24 hours! All the perks we had to be in the AOR for 45 days to be eligible for. What's wrong with thsi picture?"

      Congressmen+Hazardous Duty Pay+one month pay tax free? Do you have a link for this information?

    • retiree says:

      Until recently, you (the military member) only needed to be in the AOR for one day to get combat pay/haz duty pay and tax-free status. That was recently changed due to all the MILITARY abusing the system by doing 6 two-day trips a year and getting their military pay for the year tax-free as well as their haz duty pay.

      Civilians do NOT get said benefit. They can get overtime, as well as a removal of the cap on pay (normally they cannot make more than a Congressman), as well as some benefits spelled out by the Foreign Service Act of 1980 (http://transition.usaid.gov/policy/ads/400/fsa.pdf). However, it is nowhere near as automatic, nor does it happen instantly for one month based on just showing up in the country.

      As Charles says, I too would like to see the pointer about Congress getting military benefits in a combat zone.

  213. wayne woods says:

    hoyer needs to go front lines hottest place and see how long he would last i didn’t think we in america would elect someone that dumb and stupid to office you keep messing with the military and you will wind up with nobody to defend this country thanks to all vets for your service sfc woods 22 years us army

  214. I love your comment FLIPMYLYD! Well said

  215. Oh yes! Have just read the article on Hoyer and his ludicrous basis for comparison of civilian and military pay rates – the biased data fed to the CBO results in a highly biased report. Note how the dice were loaded to get the result Hoyer and his friends in Congress wanted:

    Many fed­eral civil­ian work­ers may cor­rectly argue that they serve in harms way along­side active duty mem­bers and have com­pa­ra­ble cir­cum­stances. How­ever, the CBO appears to see it oth­er­wise. In fact, the final sec­tion of the report lists the fac­tors which make com­par­ing the two com­pen­sa­tion sys­tems dif­fi­cult. Not the least of which are what the report refers to as the “intan­gi­bles.” These intan­gi­bles include fre­quent relo­ca­tions, deploy­ments, greater respon­si­bil­ity at ear­lier career points, and haz­ardous work­ing con­di­tions, not to men­tion the unlim­ited work hours (24/7 on call). The report’s author states that quan­ti­fy­ing those intan­gi­ble ele­ments among mil­i­tary and fed­eral civil­ians is “extremely dif­fi­cult.”

    Note: The report also men­tions the com­bat fac­tor, but com­bat related com­pen­sa­tion was not included in the direct cash com­par­i­son.

    Why the report and why now?
    Some spec­u­late that the request for the report may be related to Rep. Hoyer’s call late last year to freeze mil­i­tary pay along with fed­eral civil­ian pay. Hoyer has declined to indi­cate where he may head next; accord­ing to a spokesper­son from Hoyer’s office, the con­gress­man is not ready to make any judg­ment yet."

    Loading the dice, eh, Hoyer?

  216. CJB US Army says:

    Why is an E5 with one child who qualifies for WIC and Foodstamps and then gets deployed for 3 of the last 5 years comparable to a civilian federal employee with 4 or 5 years of service that makes more? As having done both I can tell you it’s not even close.

    • E-5 at Camp Lejeune, NC, receives a total pay compensation of $48,048.oo per year (base pay, BAH, Commuted Rations, and clothig allowance). This does not include family sep pay, imminent danger pay, hazard duty pay, or any other entitlements thay may receive. Of that $48,048.oo they only have a taxable income of $31,580.00. If I am correct, it is only this $31,580.00 that it is utilized for computing WIC and food stamp eligibility. If you were too add in this added benefit as well, then their total govenment pay, allowances, and benefits goes up even higher than $48,048.00. The median family income in the U.S was only about $46K in 2009. That puts an E-5 above the average median family (before any other entitlements they may receive). Plus, the E5 only bears a tax liability on $31K of his pay and most states waive State Income tax for military members. Another (well deserved) added military benefit.

      I said this elsewhere. Make sure you’re comparing EQUIVALENT militay and GS grades/experience when making your assessment. Don’t compare an E-5 against a GS-13 and say they’re not equal. Because, they will not be.

  217. Had I not retired from the military in 2007, I was selected for E9 and would very well be an E9 still today. My total pay and benefits would today be $93,168.00; with a total Federal tax liability of $70,480 and no state income tax (I was a Florida resident). I wouldn’t be paying any healthcare permiums or deductibles. Today, I am a GS-14 – total salary $111, 956.00 w/all of it being a Federal and State tax liabiity. These are approximates – Tax Liability (Federal only at a lower rate) at 28% on $70K is approx. $19,734. Tax Liability on $111,956 (Federal and State at a higher rate) is about $43,662.oo.

    S0 E9 – $93,168 – $19,734 = net $73,434.00
    And GS-14 – $111,956 – $43,662 = net $68,294.00

    Now, my numbers are approximates, and could probably argue a few bucks here and there… But, it could be argued that my pay in the military would be very comparable if not greater than my pay as a civlian (and don’t even say “but you get military retirement too”, they’re completely seperate).

    When you do side by side comparisons, ensure you’re picking somewhat similar military/civilian grades. Don’t arbitrarily compare what someone made as an E-5 w/5 years service (20 years ago) w/their current salary w/5 years in federal service today. How about E-5 to GS-5 w/equal number of years in service.

  218. KM, thanks for your service and a honest look at the numbers. I'm afraid the military (myself included when in) has an inflated outlook on what civilians make and have to pay for. I work with sailors everyday in my civilian job and all it seems they look at is the hourly wage. Sure I make more per hour but it is ALL taxed. The military dosen't grasp the magnitude of this benefit. How about the early secures, 72's and 96's (3 and 4 day liberty) which on the civilian side costs us money or vacation time. Paying for short and long term disability in the event of injury at work or on off time. I'm salary and do not get overtime, only straight time and only after the first 10 hours are given gratis.

    • Gordon, thanks for the comment. The loss of those 72′s, 96′s, and “just take a day if you need it” benefit, as well as a drop to only 4 hrs leave per pay will hurt your feelings…

      There are some very attractive benefits that military folks won’t fully appreciate until they’ve left the service. My first year after retiring I had to stroke a check on 15 April… Never did that while I was in the Marine Corps. That hurt my feelings again. The unfortunate part about military folks (like you, myself included when I was in), is they want the your pay and they want to keep all of their benefits too! That’s not realistic.

      • KM, you and I think alike! I turned down 9 also. And I've had to stroke an April 15 check every year for the past 15. Actually, this year, my tax exceeded my total retainer!! The entire value of my retainer went to uncle plus an extra 3K.

  219. Someone always has to find a way to justfy taking away the COLA pay raises away from our military familys. Until that person walks in there shoes and trys to live on there income they should not speek. I know there happy to have a job as a lot of Americans don't have jobs, but for what our Military empoyees do and the hours they put in if you added it up all the hours worked for the inlisted lower ranking personell they make less the mid. wage. And when the the Navy guys go out on the ship they take money away from them… go figure the one time they could get ahead they take it away even if its just a few hundred ever cent counts when your away from home and the family is trying to get by. They don't have extra to go eat out go to movies
    buy the kids new clothes.. So you can not justify taking away their rasies. If the goverment would give less to countrys that take our monies and get rich we would not be in this situation..Keep our money at home where the people here made it and need it. One out of four chielden in our country go without food everyday go figure…. Lynda B

  220. I think that everyone as said it all, but most of the civilians do not but thier lives on the line like the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces do every day…..

  221. What ultra Liberal…started this B/S…. If your a Civilian..and you have this wild idea from some back door…lost soul.. who can't think for him/her selfs..
    I say step up to the plate and joint some unit.. the USMC would love to let you get your chance at the top pay..Do it..
    USMC 66-72 VietNam 67-68 WIA 12/67
    Semper Fi,
    Marine

  222. Todd Pettibon says:

    if you want talent…..you gotta pay for it.

  223. I am sick of all you people sitting here talking about federal civil service employees like our job isnt hard.. I am a reservist and a civil service employee for the military… I do the same job as a civilian as i do in the military and i deploy… I am deployed right now… And i have 2 children back home. Maybe not all of us, but some of us do the same things Active Duty does as a civilian and we dont get the pay or the benefits that you guys get unless we are in military status… Not all federal civil service employees are the way you people are talking… And yes i do get paid over time in civilian status ( when they want to give it to us) and when i do get overtime, it gets taxed majorly and i still dont make as much as i do in the military. I get almost half of my paycheck taken away in taxes while Active Duty get a few hundred. So you people have no idea what your talking about… Maybe you should get all the facts before you decide to come on a public site and say that we dont deal with the same level of stress and same issues that the Active Duty does and say that we dont deserve the same respect, pay, and benefits that they do.

  224. Well i am in the Reserve and i am also a civilian and i am deplopyed right now so i know how this goes…. And i do the same job no matter where im at or wether i am in uniform or not… So dont tell me that i dont deserve the same pay and respect that the military does… I am both and i get raped in taxes on the civilian side… I make alot more on the military side of the house than i do civilian… Not to mention now they want to make civilians who are also in the military wear their uniforms every day to work and NOT get the pay, benefits, and our stripes dont matter. Im a Staff and a brand new SrA has more power than i do as a civilian in my uniform. Now most of them respect me and my rank but thats just the way it goes. I cannot be in charge of a crew or anyone even though i am wearing my uniform and to most people i look like im a Staff, but in all reality i am a civilian and they just decided that we need to wear our uniforms to look "uniform" with the active duty…

  225. To compare military service to those civilians working for the goverment can not be compaired fairly. The enlisted members sign up for a term of service wether it be 6 yrs or less they have made the sacrifice of thier lives. The civilians don't get a call in the middle of the night saying come to work we are on alert, the civilians do not pull 24 hour shifts 7 days a week at times.
    The civilians have the unions and the choice to quit if they wish, and to seek employment elsewhere. The Servive Member has the UCMJ, Chaplain and the rest of their enlistment.
    I have been both a Enlisted Member and a DOD civilian. The civilian side can't compare totally to the active duty side.

  226. I think ALL Americans who complaign about our government should get together and DO something other than sitting around whining, Lets grab our balls and our civil rights, march up to Capitol Hill and call them out. MAKE them do their jobs or we fire them. WE are who makes this country what it is and we let the Gov. crap all over it. I SAY ITS TIME TO TAKE A STAND, DONT VOTE THEM OUT…THROW THEM OUT!!!

  227. Retired MSgt says:

    It is illogical to compare military pay/compensation to civilian. I retired from the Air Force in 2007 after 20 years, and was making $71K a year as a MSgt. Yes, after all my pay, allowances and flight pay that was what I was making. I did not include the additional $15K I made in deployment pay and per diem. Granted I was a flyer and earned an extra $400 a month, I still agree that I was paid very well for my service. I retired at 39 years old, with a $25K a year pension!! I have VA disability pay on top of that and bring home over $36K a year without leaving my house! I could not think of a better way to spend the first 40 years of my life.

    MKJ, USAF Retired

  228. Retired MSgt says:

    It is illogical to compare military pay/compensation to civilian. I retired from the Air Force in 2007 after 20 years, and was making $71K a year as a MSgt. Yes, after all my pay, allowances and flight pay that was what I was making. I did not include the additional $15K I made in deployment pay and per diem. Granted I was a flyer and earned an extra $400 a month, I still agree that I was paid very well for my service. I retired at 39 years old, with a $25K a year pension!! I have VA disability pay on top of that and bring home over $36K a year without leaving my house! I could not think of a better way to spend the first 40 years of my life.

  229. actually in times of national crisis the president has the power to declare war for 90 days, after that if congress hasnt approved a vote on it is withdrawn and the war is ended.

  230. Sorry, but there is no comparison between military pay and civilian federal employee pay. They may be compared by numbers, but you can't compare by risk.

  231. ron davis says:

    Hello, My Name is Ron and I am new at this. Here is my question. Ii it possible to have my FERS retirement converted to civil service retirement. I entered active duty on February 1983 and got out on April 1988. I then entered civilian government service in November 1988 to present. However, people who never entered the military but entered civilian government service at the end of 1983 were able to come in as civil service retirement, which means they never had to pay Social Security and have a larger portion of their retirement.

  232. john son says:

    paracites

  233. J Wilch (E-6 Ret.) says:

    Mr Grunt, I retired as an E-6 which I received as Scout Section Sgt(19D30) of a Cavalry Scout troop. My job consisted of supervising 3 other Scout cars (vehicles) which was commanded by an E-5 (sometimes an E-4), driven by and E-4 (sometimes and E-3), with 2 more crewman (Scouts) which wereeither an E-3 or E-2). There were times when I would lead my platoon (4 M-60 tanks) on maneuvres which was called "Scouts out!" Sir, I wasn't doing it for the money, I was doing it for my troops ( I took my responsibility of protecting them) to my heart. I felt that they were given to my by their families to protect and train and most of all bring home.

  234. J Wilch (E-6 Ret.) says:

    Guy, I think this idiot (Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.)) was never in the service where he had to either freeze his arse off or drown in the pouring rain on some lonely post that over looked an enemy that wanted to kill him.

    Guys, the way I look at it, whenever these idiots want more money for one of their pet projects; they either go after the Military or the Vet because they look at us as stupid.

    I haven't receive a raise on either my disability or Military retirement for two years while they have. I even have to pay my own disability comp out of my Mil. Ret. (Concurrent pay) thanks to the Clinton Administration.

  235. USAF AMN says:

    I think its funny how many people on here say." quit your b***hin you volunteered" "nobody made you join" If this is the case why dont you shut up about "how much military makes" and join yourself. I dont think it really matters what the difference is. it was your choice to either join or do whatever it is you are doing. Its like being mad that mcdonalds cooks get paid less then a 5 star restaurant chef. they are both cooking. But it was your choice of which one you are doing. I also think its funny people are concerned we(military) are getting paid to much when actors/actresses are being paid millions to remember lines on a piece of paper. This is just my opinion…

  236. I spent 20 years in the Air Force EOD field. I retired in '85. From '65 to '85 I had 17 PCS assignments. My first home that I owned I bought after I retired. The first car that I was in the US long enough to pay off was after I retired. My hearing is all but gone, my balance destroyed by explosions but I was happy to have been part of the US military. Now, I wonder if it was all worth it. Our country is going to pot the unions and their greed has all but destroyed American industry. We complain about jobs going overseas but we are to blame right here by demanding pay many times over what businesses can get the job done overseas. Our greed and whining is the downfall of this country along with a President and his admin. pushing us closer and closer to socialism. Is that what we want? If we vote these people back in for another 4 years we then deserve what we get.

  237. Trying to compare Military pay to civilian is a shame, because the civilian works straight hours, and every dollar in that hour they earn they get paid for it. Also they pay time and half if they work overtime. They don't have the experience what the military has, because joining the military is not for everyone . It has to be a special person to get in and train to make it. Anyway Government pays civilians more than our soldier's pay, put it that way. Military works twelve strait hours with no overtime. Don't get me wrong in both professional jobs Military ,and Civilian are very different. How about if the Government sent Civilians overseas to war . What they are going to do? They don't know anything, because they are not soldiers . Our Soldiers are under pay but there will never be enough to pay them back. Congressional Leaders have no idea about our soldiers what they have been through. I just don't understand why they have to mess with Military so much. It is a waste of time, they should focus on how to run the Country. Instead , we should be comparing the welfare to illegal aliens to see what the differences are. Nobody ever brings up anything about welfare . They stay home and get paid from the Government , they live in housing ,and are not working, and we support them. Government should have investigators in each States to find the people who are living on Welfare but are able to work. They shouldn't get welfare for being lazy. That should cut spending quite a bit so we can all pay tax together to make this Country a better place to live.

  238. Buzzzard says:

    CA gets $4 billion dollars from the fed to save a minnow! I think it would be a good thing if all pet projects were ended… Let the Fed shut down! I'm an E-5 in the USAF. We got a 1.6% pay raise this year. That's something like 20 whole dollars for me. Woohoo! My power bill has gone up 4 times, the cost of milk has almost doubled, and they've cut my welfare too! Yep, I qualify for financial assistance because I have kids… sad I know. A brand new officer in the military make more than an enlisted E-5 that's been in 12 years. Ya'll see something wrong with this picture? Military officers and federal politicians need a pay cut!

  239. Are the people doing these surveys taking in consideration the Military work 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. 6 months to a year being deployed. The threat of combat any time. The living conditions aboard ship. I seem to remember when I was in which was a number of years ago getting up at 05:30 in the morning starting work at 07:00 working to 15:00 the only reason I was not working till later I was going on watch from 16:00 to 20:00. Being on a cruise for 6 months. Come back in and after about 2 to 3 months out for a couple weeks this went on till the next med cruise. I know thing have changed but Look at the Marines, Army, Air Force on Land And Navy there too plus at sea with the threat of death at any time due to the nature of the people we are fighting. Congress asks so much but give and take away so much ot threats all the time. If Congress doesn't watch out think about it the Military may get tired of being treated like they don't count then the Draft will have to come back. because they will get tired of being overlooked. You give away billions to countries that hate us. Think about it Iraq liked us for a couple months and then they started killing us and how many Military lives have we lost compared to the billions we have wasted there. When will you get it we are looked at as a money tree. Cut off aid to countries that don't fully support us and our National debt will go down

  240. I would like to a member from each party and from the house and senate go aboard a Navy ship that deployed and live and work in the deck department (that is living in a deck department compartment and working the same hours as a deck seaman and eating in the same mess hall) And the Elected Rep. must have been in the House and Senate for at least 15 to 20 years and be treated no different as a regular seaman.

  241. To Waterman:

    Reagan, Bush, Senior, Bush Junior, Nixon, John McCain, former California governor Pete Wilson, and a whole slew of politicans service in the military before they ran for office; however, they when you look at their political records, they were not good at helping the veterans and only needed the veterans when it came to getting votes. Having veterans elected to office is no guarantee that you will be heard let alone be helped.

  242. Draftee says:

    Many of you have no experience of working in a coal mine because it is the only sole of employment in the rural areas of the West Viriginia, Kentucky, etc., and the coal mining companies owe the entire state political and judicial ystem. so unless you experience some kind of dangerous civilian work like coal mining, you have no clue and you should shut your mouths.

  243. Draftee says:

    Sentor Sean Duffy complain about his salary of $174,000 was not enough support his wife and 4 kids, plus he has to paid off his student loans, and paying the bills on his two houses and his two cars. Funny how politicans and corporate leaders think the minimum wage is a princely sum while their salaries are a pauper's wage

  244. lol….that is hilarious if you thank an E7 with 10+ years has a base pay of over $84,000. I wish….that isn't even close to being true, not even if you add hazardous duty pay, tax free, seperation pay, sea pay, and housing allowance….I know because I see the paycheck coming in twice a month.
    I am ashamed of Americans that state that the military is overpaid. These are the men and women that keep you safe, that defend your country, that keep you free. They risk their lives for Americans, they miss births of their children, Christmas, birthdays, soccer games, their child's first words, first day of school, graduations, and the list goes on. They are away for weeks, months, and sometime over a year serving our country just to come home to prepare to go and do it all over again. They give up all this to defend YOU and you dare say they are over paid.

  245. Jane I've seen what your reffering to. But that military person in that office can be called in to work at anytime, can be deployed at anytime. They cant just say no. Well they can, the difference however is the military memeber goes to jail, the civilian gets another job. You cannot compare active duty military to Civilian employees.

  246. I was an E-7 at retirement the pay I always felt satisfied with my bought ouses and cars easily enough not all of them were new but all were better than my neighbors when I was on recruiting duty. I was also able to invest in Gold from $34an ounce and bought until it was over 300, so I am comfortable retired and still have most of it.

    • Maybe you should use some of that money to go back to school. Most E-7's I served with during my 20 year career were able to construct a thought out, well worded sentence. Of course, threr were those like you that obviously fell through the planks.

  247. You can still never put a price on risking your life for your country….so you can never truly compare it to civilian pay, if you do then compare it to what civilians get paid to risk their lives over there…..you will find a giant gap, as they get paid substantially more.

  248. I'm posting this because of all the crying, being done by ,our so called leaders in Washington D.C. and the miss treated , under paid or jobless individuals in this Nation.This will be short and sweet.. I joined the Marines in 1961, saw my first combat in 1965 on a wonderful Carabbian Island. On my return to the States I had orders to Vietnam. After 20 months there I returned to the land of the great PX. Now I'm not trying to impart any negativism, I had all mud, rain, rocks, food (from WW2 if you could find any after a week or so of enjoying the flora and fauna of the region), sauna (without crowding,unless you were being shot at) a person could enjoy. On return to the States, after wiping the spit, and other home coming gifts, and learning new words and phrases, we were all gather in a building to be briefed and debriefed . We were all told we would that we would not be deployed or transfer for at least a year. After 3 months I'm sent on a Cruise. I return from the cruise to see I had orders for Vietnam. Turned them down, and a month later sent on a 6 month cruise. On returning from that I had orders for a Top Secret Base (only Combat Vets). I was giver 4 days to checkout and report to my new command.
    As I sated before I'm not trying to cry on anyones shoulder, quiet the contrary.
    I enjoyed the career(24 years) I chose and wouldn't trade with anyone. So I don't understand why people in the civilian are crying about being underpaid, not being able to find a job or not enough government subsidies.
    As a footnote: In or round 1970 I was a Sgt.(E-5),with a daughter and wife and I qualified for Welfare and food stamps. Instead I got 2 part time jobs.

  249. I am both an NG Warrant Officer and a GS pay scale employee. If I can no longer perform my military job I will be out of a GS job within 30 days. Both jobs are very demanding especially since Sept 11,2001. There seems to be no end in sight. True with the economy in shambles and good jobs scare to find I count my blessings for my position. True no job is perfect but at least we have a job. Without the civilian work force the military can not do their jobs. Both go hand in hand. Each of us needs to work alittle smarter and make a difference even at our level.

  250. I know one way to save billions of dollars, why not give every veteran who is eligible for health care an access card just like our government gives to illegals. This way our inefficiient over bureaucratic V/A hospitals would not be needed and can shut down, saving literally billions of dollars. Now the veteran, like illegals can use his/her card to select the specialist he/she wants, not what the government has to offer. Why should veterans have to go to these out dated, costly, bloated, bureaucratic facilities when they can make the choice they want with one little ID card. SEIU wouldn't like this very much.

  251. the armed forces just do the will of the politicians. Nobody is asking you to go to the middle east…you are probably a college drop out and can't do anything else with your life

  252. Construction Worker says:

    I have been a union construction worker digging dirt and busting concrete for 25 years until i ruptured two disks in my neck,and a couple in my lower back, now I drive a taxi. I did not get a 20 year pension all I got was laid off due to no work for the disabled . Now I make $50 a day driving a cab 12 hours a day, my wife left me for a retired military guy because he gets a pension and can stay home at 40 years old and play on the lonely housewife internet sites all day long. I am not asking for any sympathy or pension because I knew exactly how much the job paid and how hard it was just like any soldier who accepted a job with the military! Retired military have it made.. Period!!! Pensions,medical, cola every year, free education and at retirement time every disability is just another bonus on your monthly check all paid for by complements of people like me who if by chance did make it to 70 years old will be able to collect social security which by the way I actually paid for from money I earned which is not a entitlement .. Oh thank you so very much Military Man for everything you did for me, I just honor and respect you so much I could just puke

  253. Construction Worker says:

    I have been a union construction worker digging dirt and busting concrete for 25 years until i ruptured two disks in my neck,and a couple in my lower back, now I drive a taxi. I did not get a 20 year pension all I got was laid off due to no work for the disabled . Now I make $50 a day driving a cab 12 hours a day, my wife left me for a retired military guy because he gets a pension and can stay home at 40 years old and play on the lonely housewife internet sites all day long. I am not asking for any sympathy or pension because I knew exactly how much the job paid and how hard it was just like any soldier who accepted a job with the military! Retired military have it made.. Period!!! Pensions,medical, cola every year, free education and at retirement time every disability is just another bonus on your monthly check all paid for by complements of people like me who if by chance did make it to 70 years old will be able to collect social security which by the way I actually paid for from money I earned which is not a entitlement .. Oh thank you so very much Military Man for everything you did for me, I just honor and respect you so much I could just puke

  254. You people are severely confused. There is NO comparison between GS and military Soldiers. How many military children and spouses have to relocate on average every 2 years. This relocation puts strain on the family. A GS worker chooses where they want to work Soldiers are told where they will go and if their family came come.

    Secondly, there is a reason why we have the military rank system and pay system. I have been both enlisted and officer and the idea of saying leveling off the pay scales why stop at the military…go to Congress. How much does a Congressman make when you include all of their untaxed benefits? Level off the GS system pay scales. There is a HUGE difference between a GS 13 and GS 7. If we want to play the leveling game play it with all areas of government and not just in the military.

    Lastly, the military that you old people retired from is not the same war we fight today. Vietnam is by no stretch in comparison to do two consecutive, simultaneously wars (ie OIF and OEF). THe Vietnam War was one war with one country. The current wars America is in includes: Afghanistan and Iraq while keeping North Korea, Iran, and Russia at arms length. The amount of stress that a military Soldier faces today is to the level tha PTSD is a common place within the military. Soldiers are on their 6 and 7 deployment to a combat zone. How many Pre- 911 veterans can say this?

    In conclusion, Congress is not doing enough for Soldiers considering all the variables and constraints.

    • Actually you are very wrong!!!! Most military do not relocate every two years. In fact, enlisted members only relocate every 6-8 years on average. Aircrew members in all services relocate the most frequently with that being about 3 years for officers and 4.5 years for enliste members. On average, in garrison, an active duty member only performs 31.5 hours per week of work and works 5 days a week. The large majority of all services do not deploy regularly and are not in harms way.
      Your comparison of GS to military is skewed. A GS-12, which is a major equivilent only makes about 57% of what an active duty major makes. I'm a Lt Col so I think I can vouch for those numbers.

      • Are you high? I was enlisted Air Force Weather for 9 years and I PCSd 4 times and deployed twice. I have never known anyone to stay somewhere longer than 5 years at one duty location. We heard about "homesteading" but i don't know anyone who did it.

      • Wife to a hero says:

        Ya.. ok Lt… My husband works from 6am to 8-9pm every damn day.. 31.5 hours a week my ass!

      • Wife of a hero says:

        My current husband has been in the service for 10 years, he has PCS'd 4 times. And he has deployed 4 times with orders for a 5th already.

        My late husband was in 9 years, PCS'd 5 times and was on his 4th deployment when he was killed.

        Every 6-8 years my ass.. You know NOTHING!

    • Paul Sibert says:

      You are out of your mind comparing our occupying countries to the combat in Vietnam. A good week in VN was only 200 KIA's while a bad week was 500 – 600 KIA's. Try to remember 1965 through 1969. You stayed in the bush until R&R or were wounded. No cell phones or computer games. I doubt your occupation in Iraq is keeping Korea or Russia at arms length. If it's so terrible, do not re-enlist. Not too many folks re-enlisted in VN.

      Yours truly a combat wounded 11B4P with the 101st ABN in VN 67-68.

  255. that is why most of them come in the last day of the month and leave the first day to get both months tax free

  256. construction worker you made your own decision of being what you were so dont cry

  257. Let's see, hum, a pay raise for a Colonel (O-6) (over 20 years) stationed at the Pentagon with Dependents. He or she presently makes $182,754 per year (BP $11725.50, BAS $239.96, BAH $3,264, all monthly). The Taxable income is $140,706, non taxable allowances equal $42,047.52). Now dont forget the free Park Pass for him, all of his family, the tax free commissary and AAFEES, great Medical Care and Dental Care, and subsidized transportation allowance. Now depending on whether he/she is a pilot or doctor some more annual bonuses may apply. Can Fox News, CBS News, NBC new, or ABC do a story on what the military pay entitlements really are before we beat up more Federal Civil Service people who pay tax on every dime they make in the United States.

    Heck, an O-3 (over 8 years) with a family makes $102,221.52 per year in DC.
    An E1 (over 3 months) with a family makes $44,897.28 per year in DC.
    An O-9 with a family make $222,144.72 per year in DC.

    Don't forget on these folks their allowances are not taxable. For example if the O-9 lives on the economy the $3297 in BAH and $239.96 in BAS received each month are non-taxable annual allowances totaling $42,443.52.

    • Ken you know very well that the majority in the military make no where near that much the way you manipulate the truth you must be a liberal union member. Not 1000 of you civilians is worth 1 of our military people. Don't forget most don't get those allowances.

  258. I’m a GS-07 former soldier and let me tell you, soldiers pull in significantly more than their so called GS equivalent. A married E-4 pulling in BAS and BAH tax free with no medical to worry about makes more than me, hell an E-3 probably makes more. I’d cream my pants if I was making what an O-1 or W-1 was making. So for any soldier thinking the grass is greener on the other side think again. But I do put up with less BS, but not by much.

    • John if the military job was so great why did you get out. You must be a liberal you don't tell the truth. If you are not married you don't get the benefits and you know that. GS's I have worked with were good people who worked well but, made a significant amount of money over me. In 1971 I was paid $180.00 per month and the liberals in congress thought that was to much. After taxes $68.00 every two weeks . There is not one GS worth what we pay our military.

  259. Fearnain says:

    There is absolutely no comparison between military and civilian pay! How many civilians work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay? My husband was SCHEDULED for an 84 hour work week, but usually worked more hours than that. How many civilians are jailed if they refuse a transfer? How many civilians can be shot at, bombed, or kidnapped while doing their jobs? How many civilians have to pack up their families and leave their homes for another location at a few days notice? Or have to leave their families for a year or more to fend for themselves? How many civilians are routed out of bed to dress in uniforms to go downtown to get subordinates out of jail at 2 AM? How many civilians have their health so destroyed by workplace or environmental factors that they live only a few years beyond retirement? A millitary serviceperson's life is not his/her own; the military controls it completely and without mercy; they have little choice.
    As a military veteran, military widow, and mother of a military veteran, I can say that the millitary pay scale does not completely compensate for the sacrifices made in personal freedom or hazardous duty or separation from family.

    • William P. Anderson says:

      Did you know the military technicians are military on weekends and serve right along side of you when deployed?
      Many many many technicians have been deployed just like you.
      Thank you for serving too.

  260. I work with Civilians every day. I am stationed at a base in NJ which only totals 250 service members, and about 2000 civilians. My work day starts at 0730 and I get off at 1600 on a good day. However when the civilians decide that they want to get some overtime and do some testing for whatever reason they always make sure we are there along side with them. Just few weeks ago I was working 6 days a week closely to 14-16 hours days. I don’t like NJ and was not stationed here by my choice but all the GS guys who work her e are from NJ and love that they are close to home in addition they have their own desk, most of them have Government Cars compared to my Work Center which only has 3 vehicles for about 34 people. I can tell you most of the GS guys I work with are great people and they are prior military and constantly brag about how they make 32 bucks/hour overtime.
    Every morning when we are outside in the elements forming up and having to listen to our Sup for 20 min they drive around making fun of us.

    I can compare us two all day long, but let’s face it I would love to transition to the GS work force when I get out. They are paid fairly nice and in my opinion the Federal Government needs to give us the service member a better chance to transition to the civil work force.
    Come on GS guys, quit getting but hurt that I get crappy BAH for NJ which I am wasting to Rent, unlike you guys who are going to remain here for the majority of your career and are investing your pay to pay off your mortgage.

  261. I work with Civilians every day. I am stationed at a base in NJ which only totals 250 service members, and about 2000 civilians. My work day starts at 0730 and I get off at 1600 on a good day. However when the civilians decide that they want to get some overtime and do some testing for whatever reason they always make sure we are there along side with them. Just few weeks ago I was working 6 days a week closely to 14-16 hours days. I don’t like NJ and was not stationed here by my choice but all the GS guys who work her e are from NJ and love that they are close to home in addition they have their own desk, most of them have Government Cars compared to my Work Center which only has 3 vehicles for about 34 people. I can tell you most of the GS guys I work with are great people and they are prior military and constantly brag about how they make 32 bucks/hour overtime.
    Every morning when we are outside in the elements forming up and having to listen to our Sup for 20 min they drive around making fun of us.

    I can compare us two all day long, but let’s face it I would love to transition to the GS work force when I get out. They are paid fairly nice and in my opinion the Federal Government needs to give us the service member a better chance to transition to the civil work force.
    Come on GS guys, quit getting but hurt that I get crappy BAH for NJ which I am wasting to Rent, unlike you guys who are going to remain here for the majority of your career and are investing your pay to pay off your mortgage.

  262. B.Thinking says:

    An E-1 to E-4 barely makes 26,000 to 28,000 a year pays no tax which is true,buthe or she must pay for uniforms,boots and all the rest of the trapings that go with being in the military.The civilian who serves him food over seas gets about 60,000 a year tax free. A tippical GS worker trumps that easily,if they didn't they would have been in another line of work a long time ago. Stop Crying.

  263. Idmtmedic says:

    Good ole patriot huh? Gotta love the respect.

  264. Idmtmedic says:

    Lmao, yup livin the high life. Of course THIS is where you post the trouble CON-gress has with making such a low wage right?

  265. I have been in the reserve, guard and active service of both the Air Force and the Army for 27 years and in Fed Service as an agent for 16 years. Military gets leave that takes 15 years to get in fed service. They also get BAH which would give me a 1750 or so tax free dollars a month in housing. They also get free med and dental which costs me 400 a month. I was in the Border Patrol which has higher standards than the military and where people kill and get killed. About 250 to 300 law enforcement in the country are killed each year in the line of duty. The military fights wars but in between it is pretty safe unless you violate the safety management rules. You cannot say the feds make too much and say that the military does not make enough. The military folks want the same base pay but all the benefits also. Oh if forgot active duty gets 50 percent of base pay as early as age 38 and feds in LEO positions can draw it at 50 at 33 percent of the high 3 earning years. No one mentioned the commissaries yet or the tax rates on earnings.

  266. Alright you want to compare? Compare this. A cashier who works at the commissary with a high school diploma to a bottom rank man who peels potatoes in the galley of a carrier. There is no freaking comparison. This white trash idiot who joined the navy because he had no other option in life is getting way more in pay and benefits with no more risk to his life than the lady ringing up your groceries at the commissary. A minority of military personnel see combat. This statistic has held true ever since the civil war. A guy with no education has a much much much better future than his counterpart who takes a civilian job. People who see combat: a lot of marines, pilots, army infantry, etc. deserve to give us civilians a beat down. The rest of you can kiss my ass. Oh yeah you're only having trouble supporting yourself and your wife and kids in the service with food stamps because you chose you chose you chose to have a fucking wife and kids. You ever hear of the baby boom after World War II. That happened when people left the service after the war to have kids.

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