Debt Panels Target Military Retirement

November 18, 2010 | Terry Howell

In last week’s blog on the President’s “Blue Ribbon” debt panel’s plans to cut the deficit, the suggestion of overhauling the current military retirement system seemed to go quietly unnoticed. This week a second panel has announced their plans to gut the military retirement system.

To be clear, the panel’s suggestion is not to tweak the program, their plan is to replace it with a new program that would allow members to retire after 10 years, but not start drawing pay until they reach 60 years old.

The debt panel’s suggestion is short and to the point, it simply reads: “Reform military retirement system to vest after 10 years (not 20); defer collection until age 60.”

However, before the ink dried on the “Blue Ribbon” report, a second debt panel’s report, dubbed the Debt Reduction Task Force, set its cost-cutting sights on the military community. The bipartisan Task Force, co-chaired by former Republican Sen. Pete Domenici and economist Alice Rivlin, offered a detailed plan for overhauling military retirement and TRICARE.

The Task Force proposal would tie military retirement to the government-funded Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) with vesting after 10 years. The Task Force’s plan would start paying retirees at age 60 for those who serve 10 to 19 years and at 57 for those who serve 20 or more.

In addition, the plan would base the retired pay formula on an average of the highest five-years of a members pay – not the highest three-year (High -36)average. 

Read Tom Philpott’s article, New Panel Targets Retirement and TRICARE, for further description of the Task Force’s proposals.

The idea of cutting the cost of military retirement is not new. In fact, over the last 30 years the DoD and Congress have introduced two major changes aimed at trimming the cost. 

Change one – Until 1980 military retirement pay was computed based the retirees last month’s pay. Servicemembers who joined after 1980 fall under a program known as the High-36 program, which uses an average of the retirees highest 36 months of pay to determine their baseline for retirement pay.

Change two – In 2000 the DoD began offering a Career Status Bonus/REDUX retirement plan. This plan offers members a taxable $30,000 cash bonus on their 15th anniversary if they agree to serve at least five more years and accept a reduced monthly retirement check.

In 2001 active duty servicemembers were given the opportunity to start contributing into the same Thrift Savings Plan as other federal employees. The Uniformed Service TSP is similar to a 401K without the matching funds offered to federal employees. The TSP is tauted as a way to help servicemembers set aside money for retirement. However, many saw this as yet another signal that the government was looking to phase out the current military retirement plan, especially when the Army began piloting a “matching contribution” for new Recruits a few years ago.

Some fear DoD is looking for a way to replace the 20 year retirement system  – the debt panels’ suggestions finally give them that opportunity.

Let the DoD and your elected offi­cials know how you feel about these pro­pos­als.

The full “Blue Ribbon” debt panel proposal can be read at: www.fiscalcommission.gov. There is also a link on the site for submitting feedback and ideas.

The Debt Reduction Task Force report can be read at the Bipartisanpolicy.org website.

About Terry Howell

Before becoming the Managing Editor for Military.com, Terry served 20 years in the U.S. Coast Guard as an Aviation Electrician’s Mate and aircrewman. In his final role in the Coast Guard, Terry served as a Career Development Advisor, where he provided career, finance, education, and benefits counseling to servicemembers and their families. Since retiring from the Coast Guard, Terry has authored the book, The Military Advantage, managed the content for TurboTap, the DoD's online transition program and VAforVets, the VA's transition assistance website. Terry earned both his Bachelor's and MBA at Corban University using Military Tuition Assistance and his GI Bill benefits to help cover the cost.

Comments

  1. Thompsonf07 says:

    keep from messing with a system that has worked for years

    • Remember the Tea Party, Someone might find a way to oust the US Government and all of their crooked ideas if this keeps up.

      Patriot

      • The TEA party supports reduced gov spending. Remember, our gov is broke and on the fast track to financial collapse. We either cut spending now or wait for our country to be in ruins.

        • We need to cut wasteful spending. Taking care of military veterans and having incentives to attract intelligent & honorable men and women doesn't in the least way fit into that catagory.

        • If you want to stop wastefule spending, start with congress. The military does its job. That is more than can be said for our elected officials. Remember they keep their salary for life and they do not pay in for their medical coverage. So you tell me, why they don’t lead by example? Our country is supposed to be a model for democracy, not elitism!

    • So now everyone who's ever served 10 years (but not 20) can collect retirement, instead of getting "nothing"? :^D

      • Dirtboy - USAF says:

        Don't kid yourself, the amount of money they will really get is so small it isn't worth the time. You won't make a monthlt house payment. I'm the Florida Retirement System as a Deputy Sheriff. I'm vested at 6 years and can draw then, butit is like 109.00 a month.

    • So if this crap gets pushed through the goverment is going to garuntee all the retired veterans get jobs so they can provide for there families still right, and what about all of us that have/need disability pay what happens to us?

      • I think your disability pay comes from the Dept of Veteran's Affairs, while your retirement pay comes from the military, in an amount reduced by the % of disability. They are talking about reducing military pay, not disabled vet's pay.

    • I strongly agree. Getting rid of Military retirement would force more bankrupcies, forecloseures, divorce, etc. Have any of the members on this panel served in combat, or a branch of the Armed Forces? Leave it alone, and quit trying a easy way out to cure Government debt…. We should all be writing signed letters to our Congress members asking for the panel to stop bulling Militart Retire's and their families. Semper Fi!!!

    • Guido Sarducci says:

      Your choice is lose a little or lose it all. There is no option for having no financial "skin' in the game.

      Frankly, with unemployment at 9.6 percent there is no reason to inflate the cost of military service. Getting people to enlist isn't the problem.

      • You are right, getting people to enlist isn’t the problem, but keeping them will be once they see how hard the work is, how much they give up for the same retirement plan as a civilian who can go home and spend every night with their family.

        Cut welfare and the unemployment rate will go down.

    • The best overhaul they can do is term limits on all the Congressman, Senators and Reps. Then start cutting their salaries like I'm having to cope with. They also need to have the same insurance coverage that we do. I retired after 24 years, from the Guard. I already can't draw a dime until I'm 60. Screwed again.

    • Just like the civilian model, "fix shit" that isn't broken. Six Sigma coming through! Choooo Chooooo!!!!

  2. Anthony-USMC says:

    Maybe they should create a panel to overhaul politicians and the overpaid saleries they receive!

    • Members of CONGRESS SHOULD NOT get paid more than the average SOILDER, SAILOR, AIRMAN, OR MARINE. And they should NOT BE ENTITALED TO A CONGRESSIONAL RETIREMENT.

      • tiredofit2010 says:

        and should get the exact same accomodations that they military members do…single they get barracks life, married with accompanied family they get senior NCO quarters at the nearest military base!! There are a number of bases in/around the DC area…ENJOY you employees of We The People!!

        Oh and as far as the working conditions…give em a cube!!

      • I agree and prior to being elected they should be required to serve at least 2 years in the service. Maybe then they might understand just a little of what we experience.

        • Agree with the 2 years of service for all to serve in Congress or the Senate. Also bring back the draft, every able American should serve at least 2 years prior to their 26th Birthday.

      • AMEN Larry………..we have email this to the Pres and hopefully you and others have…….

      • Jeff- US Army says:

        Yes, I agree with Anthony's comment. A senator could only serve ONE term & have benifits for life. Their Med plan appears better than the average American, who voted the politicians to serve THEM!!!

      • Guido Sarducci says:

        and would you like a million dollars, a lear jet, and a Unicorn with that? I only ask because you're assertion is patently absurd. Of course a congressman should make more than the "average" person in the military. A sargeant makes more than a private, a colonel makes more than a lieutenant and a congressman makes more than most people in the military because it's a CIVILIAN government.

        • Not only that, but the decisions they make have much farther, longer-lasting effect on far more people and at a much greater cost. I want smart people who the majority of us agree on to make those decisions- not some 19-year old kid like me who walked into a recruiter's office one day.

      • I couldn't agree more with you and Anthony. Congress exempts itself from Obama care, has an unbelievable retirement program, and outrageous expense accounts. Their sense of entitlement and greed knows no bounds.
        They are clearly out of touch!
        As I have mentioned before, Obama and the rest of them talk about how much they appreciate the military men and women…..what pure, unadulterated HYPOCRISY!!!!
        Here comes the DRAFT !!!!

      • You are absolutely right! Let us see how many will go for another term, I bet NONE or may be one. These politicians are the one draining our reserve, and also thedepartment heads and medium rank staff whose jobs are overwhelmingly overlapped anyway. WHAT A JOKE; an insult to American people, specially with the member of the military, whose life are always in danger. My husband served for 23 years, he is is very proud of it.

        • I served 20 years myself and Iam 70% service connected as well these politicains with all of this education and money still can't get it right and they never will they they really don't care about the average Joe on the street.Its time to really overhaul Washington I definity agree vangie LETS FIRE THEM ALL!

    • R. Seratte says:

      Hell you know congress will never let that happen. Better yet no can run for office unless they serve at least 8 years in the military not in an office.

    • Dusty - USN says:

      Thank you for speaking up about something I have long felt.
      I love how Wyden, here in Oregon, blah blah blahs about overhauling this and that agency for waste, but I never see him speak of overhauling congress and how wasteful they are.

    • Amen! In addition, they need to limit Congressional terms to 2, just like the President! It would keep people from hiding in politics and away from knowing what the real world entails. Their retirement salaries and receiving exceptionally good healthcare compared to others is a sore spot, too. They should have to use the same health care that they mandated for the people of the U.S.A. My biggest complaint will be if they end retirement for the military, but keep their own retirement. Yes, they are serving their country, but Congressional reps are not putting their lives on the line daily for their country.

    • CW2 Smith USA Ret. says:

      AAAAMMMMEEEENNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • globe1trotter says:

      I CONCUR. I remember getting a little 1.something % raise back in the 80's and I believe Congress got a big fat 23%. They will always come to the retirement community 1st, because we've already done our time and spent our lives and they know we can't take it back.

    • AMEN!

    • larry yoders says:

      Great reply because as we know the politicians always vote themselves a raise every year.

      • Serious Larry…what's up with that? Shouldn't we, the tax payers, approve their raises or not? Sure we vote them in, but why can't we control their pay too?

    • Calvin Morrison says:

      semper phi

    • Eleanor Cheesman says:

      Thanks! I agree with you 100 percent. I have thought this for years. They won't do it…they think they are more important!

    • ProudArmyWife says:

      That is what I keep saying, but sad to say this will never happen! They want to take from the hand that has defended them and thier families for many generations. What a nice way to say "Thank You!" Kinda like a slap in the face if you ask me.

      • This can happen! Veterans groups are very powerful. If we would all join a veterans group and make our feelings known it WOULD have an impact.

      • Master Blaster says:

        Amen to that!, this is an out rage! and very depressing..all these years for what nowdays. bad enough I risk my life for my country, now my lively hood and hopes of having a life to enjoy with my family is in the hands of some nuckle heads who never laced boot one is now gonna take away what I earned?..very sad.

    • AMEN,Brother!

    • ya, congress should be included in this retiree reduction. they get their
      pay after serving only one term???

    • I AM WITH YOUR THINKING, WHY DO THEY ALWAYS PICK ON CUTTING MILITARY AND SOCIAL SECURITY WHEN THE POLITICANS GIVE THEM SELVES BIG RAISES AND NEVER PUT THERE LIVE ON THE LINE IN WAR ON ACTIVE DUTY AND DON'T STOP "BORROWINTG" MONEY FROM SOCIAL SECURITY THAT NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, GETS PAID BACK AND MOST OF THE TIME IS JUST FORGIVEN AND FORGOTTEN, ,BUT YET THEY ALWAYS CONTINUE TO PICK ON MILITARY AND SOCIAL SECURITY.???????

      • Guido Sarducci says:

        Jean,

        Despite talk of "cutting" social security and the military there has NEVER been an instance where these things have happened. Never, as not ever, have wages and benefits been slashed. The net result is we have a huge deficit, and 72% of the cost related to that deficit can be found in defense and Social Security. That's the reality.

        • texmex1717 says:

          There is a reason why this has never been touched.
          The people who defend your fredom now and the ones who have already defened you deserve what little benifit they get after spending a lifetime serving. The reason we are in debt is not because of the Soldiers fighting on the front line. So why punish the ones that keep you safe each and every day.

    • I agree maybe it time the american people look into what politicians get along with there retirement

    • I believe that the reps should get paid for what the have done that totally
      benifits this country and it people. I think that they might get $2,000.00
      a year.

    • Chop military retirement and watch our best and brightest leave..

      • I have to agree with you on this. I have been retire for almost two years and have to wait until I turn 60 before recieving my pension. It is sad for what they want to do. Politicians need their pay cut down to nil.

    • Best idea I've heard in a long time!

    • AMEN Sir,

      First cut politicians to four year term, no wage adjustment or increase. Then you Republicans GO for it…No one will give their life for the USA so you can plan on starting a draft. I have a hard time reading what Domenici/Panel are even thinking about. Do Politicians know about Military Life…some families qualify for food stamps.

    • Amen! What a great idea. Lets see if they really earn their $150K or more a year pay?

      • They don't earn their pay. If they earned their pay they would have been on top of the budget and what was going on with the housing market and such. Lets do what they do with teachers, pay for performance and even keeping your job for your performance. I think most should get an "F", and loose their jobs. Not too long ago we were in the black – we had a balanced budget.
        Congress picks the easy way out by targeting the Vets, the elderly – the people who sacrificed for this once Great Nation and paid for these ideals with our service and some even paid with their lives. They look at us and say we are weak, we are the easy target. They say we will not fight back. They are wrong! If our elected officials won't listen then we have to write the media. TV stations, news organizations, news papers and such – consolidate all the help organizations like the American Legion and such into this goal and build our numbers. I remember a campaign call Just Cause. This is truly a just cause – for every comment that we post here we should copy and send to CNN and local news organizations. If our politicians don't want to listen to us, maybe we can get someone in the local and major news stations to carry our message to congress.

    • Bravo Zulu! All My Brothers and sisters that have served and are serving now are doing it because of the Same sorry People that want to cut what little they do get. They are Not Asked if they want to go they are order by the same Fools that are running around giving themselves pay raises and gettting a MAX retirement for what? Hell they shouldn't get a dime for screwing up this country!

    • Not a bad idea!!!!

    • Hooah!!!

    • Barrt-USAF says:

      Couldn't agree more with your comment. It's interesting these "career politicians" don't impact their salary yet do not lose any sleep on cutting the salary of men and women that put their life on the line (not to mention the personal sacrifices to the military member and his/her family) every day of their military careers.

    • Like Glenn Beck suggested, Congress pay should be reduced to what the Average American citizen brings home yearly. They should receive the same medical treatment as the Veterans. Military Veterans should be paid a much higher wage and retirement for their sacrifice. The system has it all backwards now…if I were in charge…I would reverse the Congress and Miltary pay/benefits as it currently stands.

    • GAHAN USAF says:

      That sounds like an excellent idea, better yet lets create a military panel for all the politicans .If they have ten years and leave or voted out,no money till they reach 75 yrs of age. change the time in service to their country to 75 . for those who leave early, if the have at least 2yrs to 25 yrs. deduct the yrs from 75 for their Retirement age. or get off military. We all in the military earned what got.if we had't fought for country, where would they be today. It bothers me to even think about. We only a 10thof what they get,and alot of are brothers did'nt even get that 10%. THEY GAVE THEIR LIFE. 20-1/2 yrs served

    • I say let them serve 4 years. I also say we should get to vote on their pay raises or cuts. If it is fair for them to vote on the pay raise, why is is that I cannot vote on my pay raise.

    • Okay; lets reduce their pay so everyone can complain about all the money they take under the table. Which is already a problem, but worse if we do that.

      I'm all for setting their pay by proposition vote by the public at large. But don't be surprised if all of them quit and nothing but even worse criminals run for office!

    • I agree 100%

    • AMEN!!!

    • MSgt Forin Ret. says:

      I agree with Anthony, the politicians give themselves a raise every year along with all the employees that work for them. Plus the fact they can retire with almost their full pay after one term in office. I gave the Air Force 21 years of my prime life with promises that the government would take care of my benefits but they are slowly taking them away year by year.
      Just a bunch of lies, just like everyone in congress speaks… our representatives in congress don't give a damn about us just how much money and benefits that they can receive.

      • Guido Sarducci says:

        Master Sargeant,

        With respect you made a choice. You CHOSE to give the Air Force 21 years of your life. While I respect the service (as a Marine Veteran) I disagree with your opinion.

        Congressmen are under FERs and it's time you all got brought into the fold as well. No more separate (read special) retirement for the military or the USPS. We simply can't afford it.

    • Wayne Moyer says:

      Also limit the congress limit to how long they can serve. Make their annual increase tied into the COLA also. Take the savings and put that towards the National dept. Then maybe we get back to a congress that will do all they can to pass sensible legislation.

    • Well stated and concise. No retirement for them, let them draw from social security like the rest of the nation. And let them utilize Obamacare as their healthcare plan.

    • Yea if they put their butts on line like we all did the would be raising all hell because OUR benifits are being screwed with..

    • honorcouragecommt says:

      I strongly agree on this one…those M%$&^#&&% F(*&)&* needs to cut down their salaries and benefits and most specially their C^^(^(&^^& S^^(()staff that drain our money. They don't know what the F0707&(&^&& they are talking about.

    • AMEN TO YOUR COMMENTS, ANTHONY AND LARRY. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN WASHINGTON………GET OFF OF THE MILITARY. POLITIICIANS GET TO RECEIVE A RETIREMENT AFTER JUST ONE TERM OF SERVICE (2, OR 6 YEARS?) AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT REVAMPING/CHANGING THE MILITARY'S RETIREMENT SYSTEM WHICH IS BASED ON "YEARS" OF SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY??? PREPOSTEROUS! AND SHAME ON ANY PANEL LOOKING TO CHANGE THE MILITARY'S RETIREMENT SYSTEM. WHY DON'T YOU JUST RE-INSTITUTE THE DRAFT?

    • God bless you for having the guts to say what everyone in America is thinking. I agree that they should look at cutting the overpaid, under work, vacationing idiots that come up with this crap! We have served our country and followed our orders with very little pay for 20 years or more. The POLITICIANS are the ones who NEED PAY CUTS to reduce the debt.

      • Guido Sarducci says:

        Once again, Debra, when looking at total compensation you have to look at whether it's necessary to preserve force mission capability AND whether we (as a nation) can afford the cost. The answer to both questions is NO.

        Your decision to serve was a choice. It's a volunteer military. I respect the decision and honor the service… but it's time for EVERYONE to have some financial "skin" in the game and that includes DOD.

    • I agree with Anthony I served 20 years in the Navy and have been retired going on 11 years .Every politicans should be ousted after 4 years because they get too comfortable. The majority of these so called patriots have never served their country the way we have down on the deck plates,,in the fox holes,,and in the deserts.Many of us have have been seperated from our families for months and even years, How many of these so called patriots,if it came down to it would shed there blood other politicians? How many of them would say( I got your back ) and take a bullet for each other? I have to say not many,they would run to their summer home in the Hamptons or some place like that. It is time we overhaul Wahington from the top down. I pray one day we get a Leader that is not a millionare but just an ordinary street smart person with savy and won't take any BS from the rich and powwerful. I say lets (TAKE BACK Our COUNTRY)!!!!

      JWW USN RET.

    • These politicians also get a retirement after serving one term that is BS, I will bet only a handfull served, So they have no clue what we do and have done, They serve a term of two years and that is it, I wonder if thier retirement is going to get cut and if they will have to wait till 60 to recieve half thier pay

    • AMEN!

    • I was thinking the same thing. If the Senet and the House and the other Government offices had to take a "revision" in their pay system to bring it around to the norm of everyone elses pay systems. Thay might not be so quick to change the Military's Retirement Plan

    • concur with this. I will bet the military would be more willong to adjust if the politicians would give up some of their expensive retirement and health perks.

    • Tim USN Ret. says:

      Thanks Anthony. Darn right! This panel is nothing short of a disgrace. It is not the fault of our service personnel that Congress went and spent the country into oblivion. Now, when the check comes due, the first cuts that Congress wants to make is always the military. It never changes. It is time we cut their salaries and benefits until they get their mind right. Screw them all!

      • You said it right my friend!! My husband served a little over 20 years, and he had to fight for the little bit of disibility he got. And now they want to go after the military, what a disgrace it is. It's almost criminal.Some of those in congress are so full of greed and themselves that it is sickening!! Keep the faith guys and gals. God bless you all!!

    • I was thinking the same thoughts. A very good idea.

    • I agree with Anthony- USMC.

      ED.

    • After serving more then 20 years in the Navy I strongly believe that it is our right to receive retirement upon completion of service. If you want to talk about saving money over retirement and government spending. Well… From the President on down. He/she can do 4 years in office and collect big dollars and have a security service at there beck and call. It has been well put throughout that everyone making these decisions sits behind a big desk, thinking because they visited the area, they know how it is to live and serve under the conditions. First thing they want to do is take the money from the military man.

    • Amen to that. You don't hear Senators and Congressmen talking about their VERY lucrative retirements…which they don't have to serve 20 years to earn.

    • Semper Fi Anthony. I agree with you 100%. Steve.

    • Starr, 1SG says:

      agree

    • You and I both agree with this. This is utter nonsense, Like you, I
      think too, the Govt, needs to start with oberhauling the personnel
      in their system, and get someone in office that will use thier head
      for something besides keeping their ears apart.

    • Barry-USN-Submariner says:

      I think you have smashed the hammer on the nail! Why Isn't there a board or panel to overhaul the overpayment of the politicians in Congress? Why are Politicians, in Federal Prisons, receiving their full retirement pension after being convicted of a Felony(s). If you or I had been convicted of a Felony our retirement would be stopped by the same politicians that allow these Felons to keep their retired pay in PRISON!! The time has come to STOP: "DO AS I SAY! NOT AS I DO". 'We The People' need to develop our own plan to, not just monitor, but, correct the discrepancies incurred by our Elected Officials. If they are not going to use the same Moral Compass we use then they need to be re-calibrated!

    • Cherice Clarke says:

      I agree with you Anthony. I was in the Air Force for 10-years, but wish I would have stayed for 20-years. We need to write our congressmen about overhauling their pay. Great comment!!!

    • I AGREE 100% WITH YOU!!! WHY DO THEY GET TO VOTE ON THERE OWN PAY RAISE?? I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT!! THEY WOULDN'T LIKE THAT VERY MUCH I BET!!

  3. Bob Breitweiser says:

    Stop foreign aid to the countries that hate U S,and put that money into the VA system and retirement,problem solved.

    • STOP all foreign "AID" especially to ISRAEL who attacked and KILLED 34, wounded 171 U.S. Servicemen when they KNOWINGLY attacked the USS LIBERTY!! Remember the LIBERTY!!!

    • Bill Garry says:

      Amen, brother. If only the politicos would listen.

    • Way to much going to foreign goverments with no option of repayment.

    • Not only that, repeal Obamacare as well as stop giving benefits to the illegals in this country. These are other alternative steps to deal with the debt than screw over the military retirement system.

      • Obamacare, as you bigots like to refer to it, is a Health Care Bill meant to protect those Americans you serve from being ripped off by the greedy rich boys who run those companies. It also reduces the national debt. So if anyone, then you should support it! And furthermore if we repeal the Health Care Bill then I suppose we should repeal military health care as well. It's a govt run program too! As far as the illegals they just don't pay and the hospital cannot refuse them. That's the way it was and is, even before Obama came in to help clean up Bush's mess.

        • Joyce Todd says:

          Hogwash !!!! The bottom line is the Obama Administration wants to take away from hard working Americans…who have known nothing but "work" their entire life to give to the people in this country who have not contributed a single dime in any fashion. And Oh Yes !!!
          Let's just repeal health care for the military too…the very people who have devoted most of their entire working life for the many freedoms that we all enjoy…many giving their lives for that beautiful American Flag to fly freely. Obviously Joe…You are living in a deep, dark hole if you do not understand what is going on in our country…The Washington crowd (prior to the last election) call it "spreading the wealth" I say get a life; get a job; be responsible; quit expecting handouts; and if you are not an American … and you love this Country…become an American …join us, blend in, get a job, pay your taxes, take care of your family, and most of all, speak English !!!!

        • Joe I see you are like so many others blame Bush. Wake up man he has been out of office over two years. The present administration has increased our debt much more than Bush ever did.Wake up and smell the roses sometime and for goodness sake stop blaming Bush for everything.Get over it.

    • silverpoodle says:

      RIGHT ON !!!

    • globe1trotter says:

      AMEN brother!

    • Terry Fredricks says:

      Well put ! I need say nothing.

    • PHIL JOHNSON says:

      I AGREE WITH BOB STOP FOREIGN AID AND START CHARHING COUNTIES TO FIGHT THEIER WARS OR STAY AT HOME WHERE WE BELONG.

  4. Okay,so where are we going with all this and those who are proposing these changes are perhaps "Draft" Dodgers. They must understand that they are able to sit quietly because of those who are serving and have already served this "Great" Country!!!!!!

    • Unfortunately, I recall one panal members is a retired 2-star general. I also recall there was an admiral too….at least 2-stars.

    • Your not kidding, These are draft dodgers proposing this. These demented left over Woodstock pinko's need a trip to the front line in Iraq

  5. Sure, lets stick it to the guys and gals that risk their lives every day. Those who have served and are already living with broken promises and costs from retirements that were not there when we joined. How about readjusting congressional pay to 1960, which is still more than those jackwagons are worth.
    Chaps this Old Soldiers Ass

    • Earl, let's try 1860's level. Even then they would be overpaid for what little they do.

      • I would like to go one step further. Congress should be using the same system as all other people, such as , Social Security Retirements and Medicare Health Systems. There is no reason why they or anyone else should be exempted from the laws that are enacted. Their Retirement should be based on the same Requirements as the Men & Women that are away from their families and not knowing IF or WHEN they will ever get to see them again. I've been there and I know what I'm talking about. This would help our Debt much more than hitting the little guys who is putting their lives on the line 24/7. Bill

    • Amen brother these folks for the most part wouldn't make a good pimple on a privates butt. There overpaid and arrogent 2012 is coming well take out the rest of the trash

    • I agree 100%. Let the people vote shen and if congress should ever get a pay raise.

    • I'm with you cut the pay of all the congress and then they'll have enough to pay the men and women who have served and are entitled to it.

    • Thought these politicans were suppose to be citizen serving in Congress. Take away all their benifits and pay them only for the hours they actually work. No more free medical for life or tax free pension for these A–holes. They from them and give it to the men and women of the services.

    • I'm a big proponent of leading by example. I want to see these idiots:
      1. Participate in the same health care program they're gonna ram down the
      general population's throat.
      2. Stop taking ridiculous pay raises every year even when our economy suffers.
      3. Can't remain as elected officials for more than 30 years.
      (Hell, I don't even believe the founding fathers intended for anybody to make a career out of politics) and,
      4. Can't draw a pension after one term.
      If it aint good enough for them, it aint good enough for me either. The only reason I'm glad I'm not active duty is that I don't have to fight to save these morons' skins anymore.

      • wrangler122002 says:

        I would take it one step further as NCO's, we received those wonderful NCOER's, depending if the rater liked you or not your career was in their hands. I believe the politicians should have the same evaluation system and it should be available to the pubilc for view. If raises are in order, they should come from evaluations, like the Military.

  6. This is total BS. Write your congressman, voice your opinion so that this doesn't pass.

    • I agreeis this is crap from the highest order what I would suggest they first lead the.thi way and cut their outstandng pay and retirement. This brings to mind God and soldier all men adore in time of danger, not befor when dangers gone and all things righted GOD is forgoten and the soldier is slighted

    • you are right this total BS as far as Congressmen go I doubt that they would even care. as we use to say BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again)

    • B.S. I think this is a great idea, as long as congress and the senate and all the state polititions agree to the same rules, including the use of the VA hospitals. I say if such a plan is good for the polititions, then it's good enough for our servicemen. I'm betting all the politicos will be trying get into the military benefits system. They're just jealous they can't participate in the VA hospitals and the PA's we have for Doctors, and that they have to listen to the medical mumbo jumbo the english speaking doctors give them

    • wrangler122002 says:

      I have wrote my Congressman on several occasions, have never heard anything back. What does that tell ya?

  7. Pissed OFF says:

    I'll tell you what, if retirement pay at 60 happens for all of us Active Duty military, that's going to drop moral immensely! I predict the "all volunteer" force will be no more. What kind of idiots would even consider this as a good idea? Oh yeah, the idiots who this won't effect, sitting pretty behind an oak desk making decisions that would jeopardize our future. It's bad enough that the economy is in shambles, but to talk about denying us our hard earned retirement until we are 60! Your going to have alot of PISSED OFF military members in this country aiming to reclaim what was taken from them. Wouldn't want to piss off a bunch of highly trained people for some dumb ideas on how to save money. I suggest congress discovers other avenues of approach to keep all hell from breaking loose…

    • That's why it's important to get out in Vote…Learn everything you can about the politician you're voting for. If that doesn't help…run for political office..get in the fight. Honestly, when its not their backsides in the sling…they don't care. Change is good and has to happen….but I would strongly recommend that the politician think before messing with military members money…that is dangerous ground.

      • Welcome to the Army and Air National Guard. That's how we've operated all along.

        • That is a half truth! That only applies to part time guardsmen, NOT active Duty Guardsmen (AGR). Full-time Techs have their own retirement programs.

          • thats the real deal, even the techs gotta have 25 years and be age 55. guard still have to be 60 years old.

        • Another Dude says:

          Are you suggesting that those that serve on Active Duty for 20 consecutive years should have the same retirement plan as those part-timers that do a weekend a month and two weeks a year? Even though reservists/national guard can and do deploy and are full time members at times, for the most part they are not – and should not expect the same benefits as someone that serves full-time all the time for 20 years!

    • I did my 20 a long time ago and it usually always comes to this when it comes to balancing the buget. The first thing they start with is military pay.
      The goverment gives then they try to take it away, never bank on the governmonts promise's ask a native american about that. They keep on doing what they are trying to do and I believe Congress will have be drawing their helmets and flak jackets and the President will have to put on his Generals Helmet because they could end up fighting the next War.

      • Retired USAF says:

        Mercy, Moonpie03, your comment about the American Indians is so true. There is so much to be read between those lines. I had been questioning just how low our Senators and Congressmen would go, now I know. I guess it is just history repeating itself One thing to keep in mind is that we Military Members, active and retired, far outnumber them. And you are so correct in saying that they can find themselves on the losing end of a Civil War

    • Who,in their right minds would risk their lives day-after-day for a minimum of 20 yrs, or even 10 yrs, for the same retirement system that reservists have? Let alone, pay more and receive less health care?

      Keep on POLITICIANS! You will have America paying trillions of dollars for Mercinaries only to give up and go back to another country of their allegience. Actually, the POLITICIANS would rather give up and "talk" to someone like N. Korea.

      I've been there and I don't get enough retirement, now, for the for dealing the daily thoghts and reminders of Viet Nam.

    • Pissed Off,
      The kind of idiots who have no idea what it means to serve, no idea what it means to sacrifice one's entire life for their country…the kind of idiots who have never known what it's like to not to be able to feed a family because the pay is so low one has to go on food stamps while serving in the military…

    • …just destroy the Federal Reserve from illegally buying treasuries from Gold man Sachs at higher prices… than what is mandated to be bought only from the treasury department at fair market value….end of story. Retirement and SA saved!!!

    • VFW Veterans F=====d by Washington , you may not like the f—-ing goverment, but boy they love f—-ing us.

    • Perhaps that is the idea. The ones who have never been in the military and want to destroy the military. Remember the Hollow Army of the 70's "All volunteer Force"?
      You'll have the active duty troops leaving even if the economy sucks, reservists will start to leave as soon as Big Army starts to use them to flesh out AC units to meet world wide commitments.
      Pretty sweet and no one will see it coming.

    • Now you know what a 30 year army reservist who hasn't yet reached age 60 yet feels like!

      • Bill Garry says:

        I'm a reservist, too, with 7 years' active duty. But my last 15 were NOT full time and I knew the retirement rules when I got out. What the politicos are trying to do is to change the rules for those who DO serve full time, much of which is away from their families and in harm's way. They are breaking faith with the faithful, and they should be ashamed.

      • You had the same choices we had at 18. You want the same benefits for working 114 days a year? that doesn't make since to me does it to you?

    • Aussie veteran says:

      It appears you have the same breed of clowns in politics that we have in Australia, 40 years later as a Vietnam veteran I am still looking for someone in government that honestly cares for what we have done, they all mouth off and want to save $$$ but they are very quick to increase their own pay. you guys are not on your own, good luck over there in the USA……….David.

    • steve allen says:

      I spent 9 years active and 13 years in the Navy Reserves I have to wait until age 60 before I start collecting pay and Benefits. I was recalled 2 times while in the reserves I Have written to congress many times about this disparity between how active duty and reserves collect Benefits. I say it is time to the gap between active and reserve Benefits.

      • Dave Hamilton says:

        There was a simple solution you could have stayed on active duty the entire time like many of us did. You don't get it. If Congress is talking about gutting active duty retirement what do you think the chances are that you are going to get the same retirement system as a full time soldier?

      • Ken Fournier says:

        Come on.

        During your reserve time you got paid for weekend drills but went to your civilian job during the week. You did not have to deploy for 6 months every 18 months along with weeks of training for deployments. Active duty members are away from home 6-9 months a year, (US Navy), and 1-2 years for the grunts, (God bless them).

        When your family has a medical emergency, you get released from drills, for active duty, you have to suck it up. My mother went into the hospital for cancerr surgery, I was in the Persian Gulf so I could not be there for her. Same when my son was struck by a drunk driver while riding his bike.

        Your retirement is based on the fact that you are able to continue your full time employment, (with guarentee of the job being held for you if you are called up). We have to find a job at age 38-48, with few military skills crossing over to cvilian jobs. So we start at a lower pay level at our middle age while you have advanced up the pay scale during that same time frame.

        Leave our retirement alone. We paid for it with low pay, long deployments, frequent relocation, etc.

        • Tony, Sgt. PAARNG. says:

          I agree with you, and thank you for your service, as one veteran to another, but the Guard has come a long way since 9/11. Things in the Guard aren't exactly how you think it is. We serve 2 masters one federal and one state, and need more training than what you think in order to meet our mission. And deployments for Guard members are becoming more and more common. Going on back to back deployments, being deployed 2 to 3 times with in a 6 year spand is what guard personnel endure, while our promotion system is based on slots, it can be more difficult to achieve an advancement. The system does need to be fixed, to make it fair all they way around. You decided to stay in for your 20, congrats. You get all the bells and whistles by being active duty. Many of us chose a different road. You can't possibly blame us for making a different career choice than what you decided to do. The point is we are all in the same boat. No pun intended.

    • theres no need for vilance we have the power to get rid of them were just to stupid to do it its called the vote for some reason though the same assholes keep getting elected so its our own fault

    • Look I did my twenty and I know how pissed off I would have been if this bullshit came up when I was in. One thing we need to do is to call in our credit that was giving to AIG whose bill is over one hundred billion, yes that is right, so that is where the pay raise freeze is at, and the current talks of different retirement, so call in the money that is owe to us, the taxpayers from AIG alone, and give the active duty personnel a ten percent raise, thank you guys for continuing on the traditions.

    • The panel know the percentage of people that actually retire from the military. The percentage would surprise you. When they approved REDUX, people said it would hurt recruiting. It never happened . They know when most of the people leave the military.

    • IstSgt USMC RET> You have that right, couldn't have said it better.

    • Pissed OFF you are right on and I would stand with my fellow brothers and sisters…

    • globe1trotter says:

      there won't be an active duty if they do what they are talking about. Who in their right mind would stay….except people that don't have a choice.

  8. Without knowing the details of the original & subsequent considerations that determined current retirement policy I am still appalled. Perhaps those finding ways to reduce the deficit shoud revisit the orginal ideas and conclusions. As a recipient of these benefits for my 26 years of service, a reduction or suspension would be a slap in the face for all my family endured and sacrificed. Did we deal with it, certainly – you adapt and overcome. I now work in a fed.govt job and adjusting has been a challenge. My point being, nothing compares to the military lifestyle and you don't just grow out of it after that many years. Glad to be retired and out from under the pressure but this is more than disappointing, its outrageous! Its incredible that looking to change current retirement would even be considered.unless they are looking to improve. I know with a little thought, there are other ways to cut spending.

    • Lets all these panels what till 60 and get nothing and also kick them out of free health care. And don't forget serve but 1 term. And let them put on a uniform for a requirment.

    • They would not take your retirement away. If you acknowledge that you don't know any of the details how can you criticize? These plans impact future enlistee benefits not ones already agreed to. Why should someone be allowed to live off the the people's money for the rest of their lives beginning at 38? If service is sacrificial then it should not come with a sense of entitlement. Our government is overburdened with debt. Cuts need to be made everywhere.

      • B schmengee says:

        Yes, like health care and Gov't employees salaries and benefits. Chris you are an obtuse socialist

    • I agree with Diane. If this BS goes into law and is used they might as well forget the All Volunteer Force. Only idiots would go along with something like what they are dreaming up and they might as well plan on the draft including females this time. A lot of people have forgottern how talk was going around before the volunter force was started. With thinking like this it's no wonder the USA is in the mess it's in now.

    • Diane, will not effect current retirees. Just like the High 3 or REDUX

    • Ypu got that right. How about these civilian governement employees, i.e. congressmen (or persons) and Senators. Getting free medical care for life, and thier plush retirements!!!! Make them politico dirtbags pay for medical services like all of us reitrees. Cut their pay, make them pay for their junkets overseas "vivisdting" troops in places like Germany, Korea, and others. Or better yet, let them serve in Afganistan, Iraq or hey – maybe on the Korean border.

    • Jorge Esteves says:

      I too am appalled. The country is going through some though times do to the decisions politians have made in the pass and resent years. The wealth (Bank and Investment firm CEO's, Car company CEO's, etc) have made out like FAT CATS. Why doesn't Congress go after them? We struggle with our pensions which were earned with great personal and family sacrifices. Was I wrong when I held faithfully to: Duty, Honor and Country, thinking that whom ever came after I retire would care?

    • after i gave 26YRS of my life to serve this country and deprived my family of time that's a Bigg slap in the face Gov should go and serve themselves we're
      lst big time

  9. These "PANEL MEMBERS" probably haven't served a day in the Military. Most likely they sat on their asses their entire lives. How can any sane individual even conceive of taking from the individual who puts their lives on the line, day in day out! There should be a Panel just to Fire these kind of people. I hope we never cross paths! I'll show them what cuts really means!!!

    • retired/enlisted says:

      they gotta have fuel and food for their private jets and their entourage

    • Retiree, You hit that one on the head. At least for the"esteemed Senator". He doesn't have a clue and he thinks he understands the years of poor pay, long hours and extended deployments with crappy food, smelly roommates and Napolionic leaders. Just another reason for term limits and required military service for our representatives.

    • The very people that will decide what is best for the military are the same assholes that will recieve $15.000 per month for life, after one term in office. While our soldiers will recieve $1.000 after 20 years of service offering thier life day after day, We as retires our the strongest group of voters and should take full advantage of our strentgh and vote these so called leaders out of office an replace them with good men that have served thier country in one of the branches of service.

    • OldRetiredNavyChief says:

      A more judicious remedy would be for these "Blue Ribbon Panels" be dissolved and any bonuses they expect immediately terminated. The Congress of the United States should be put on a STRICT budget, eliminating their free healthcare, free and reduced meals, free haircuts (or styling), pedicures and manicures as well as their "entertainment" expenses on their junkets. The gross overspending by all members of the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of OUR GOVERNMENT must be put in control of WE, THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The government of The UNITED States of America belongs not to the elected, but to the electors (we who elected these oligarchs).

      • Aren't those "elected" officials supposed to serve us not punish us? Inorder to lessen the benefits they must look at their own personal spending using the government funds and cut their salaries off to compare the military and if they are not productive "kick them out" without pay. I think they should have a Continuation Board like the one for E-7 to E-9 rankings. Also, to include before sitting on their asses in their comfortable office why not have them serve in the military for few years as one of the requirements.

      • Retired USAF says:

        My dear admired and respected OldRetiredNavyChief ,
        I am in full agreement that our Congress be put on a strict budget and eliminating the bonuses Let's make them get OUR approval for those outrageous pay increases? Better yet, force them to give the military the exact same increases, with the same frequency? Oh yeah, let me re-enlist today! Same goes for those perks. They can more than pay for these luxuries out of their own pockets and have money to burn Not me, I live below my means, trying to prepare for the What If's. I never imagined the What IF could be MY Government!

        Just what percentage of the current USA population does our active, reserve, retired, and disabled military come to? Here's a clue, WE ARE MASSIVE. Why , we even have some Native Indians, along with just about every nationality covered in this massive population and WE ARE EVERYWHERE Long gone is the era when one could choose the military over jail/prison. Yet, that seems to be the mentality and criteria Congress and the Senate are using in their thoughtlessness. By the by, Whoopi Goldberg, most appropriately says that THOUGHTLESSNESS IS THE NEW MANNERS We see this everywhere, now I question is I have found the origin of this lose/lose scenario.
        Here's a possible solution!!! Employ the following, using the KISS acronym
        IF IT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE, IT IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER!!! Heaven forbid this cause them to gain some perspective and peek at reality!!!
        Retired Air Force

  10. Send our Congress and State Senators in uniform to replace Soldiers on deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan, then it will hit them in the face real hard and make them think what they are doing to our military.

    • I totally agree with you, I think everyone in the govt. should down a uniform and go to Afghanistan, and have the same pay as other soldiers, but they will be enlisted. Then see how there families like it too.
      Just pisses me off

    • Roger Mitchell says:

      How about stopping the Congressional golden parachute. Do away with the retirement of the Congress and stop exempting themself of all the laws they pass.

    • Send those worthless politicians who are what I call "Lifelong civilians" only on missions that they won't survive.
      Obama and his gang of politically correct asskissers are worse than Clinton, her draft-dodging husband Bill and their mob.

    • You are correct there are no high dollar lunches in a combat zone, just the bare meals, no tax money to steal, no beautiful high dollar escorts to have an affair with, and above all you can get killed.

    • why would you suggest sending a those people overseas , our troops have enough problems without having to baby sit and wipesnivling noses.

    • Phil (USAF RET) says:

      Can we make sure the Representatives and Senators are standing next to IEDs when they are tripped?

  11. Lorne Lister says:

    How do you get Congressmen & Senatores to go into uniform now when so many of them never served during either Vietnam or Desert Storm or Iraq & Afghanistan? The list of those in Congress who did not serve stretches from member of congress through the Senate to a Presidents who avoided Vitename throgh "connections" to a VP who had FIVE "college" deferments during Vietnam. "The only problem they have with vet is we are now living too lon. I was in for 20 years and have retired for 25 years. As a Personnel Administrator I remember in the 60s and 70s the life expectancy was only about 15 -20 years for 20-year retirees and less for the 30-year guys. All we have to do is die quicker and the problem will go away. Anyone want to be first. KI'm a little busy today!!!!!

    • Hey Lorne Lister, Old Charlie Rangel served during the Korean War era. He is just 80 years old now. Not many of his age left around and true, not many of present Congress served in the recent military wars. There is one man who was accused of being a "draft dodger-first class" during Vietnam war, and is well known and I'll not mention his name right now. You know him who is also married to a well know woman in the Cabinet now.

      • Democrat draft dodgers are no different than Republican draft dodgers. They both suck. I continue to ask the politicians that I communicate with a question…….Why don't you talk some of you children, grandchildren, and even some of your friends, to join up? If it is such a noble cause and important to serve, how about a contribution to the cause. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat

    • I agree with most of what you say but the President would have been too young for Vietnam.

    • Retired USAF says:

      Sorry Lorne, I'm sorry to inform you that your "all we have to do is die quicker and the problem will go away" comment HAS already been given too much thought!

    • Blackcoat says:

      Akin to you I too have been retired for quite a few years, (36 years). I am in agreement in your assessment related to those that want to change our retirement benefits etc. We have already made the necessary sacrifices and have earned what we worked for in the military. Now it is time for those in congress and senate as well as those in the presidential administration to give. In my opinion that which they want to do to us, they should do to themselves. Cut their pay at the same % as they want to take from us. Do to themselves, wait as long as they want the new retirees to wait for the retirement to kick in. United to me means that all make a sacrifice and contribution to get this nation out of debt. We the people need to band together and treat those that are supposed to be running this country for what they really are..extremely unacceptable politicians that care more about the well being of another nation (foreign aid) that the wellness of this country. Semper Fidelis. Retired Marine and 100% combat disabled veteran.

    • Looks like you got your monies worth collecting a retirement check for 25 years. I agree with the new life expecatancy levels that we won't be able to afford to pay someone for 40 years after just serving 20 years in the military. I could see paying that amount if the person served around 30 years in the military. They could then prorate the retirments down to 15 years in service and go with the 55-66 year retirement plan for anyone with less then 20 years service.

  12. csmjimmorrison says:

    These fluke heads on these panels have no understanding of the military. It's just as all the other recommendations that are being made by these people who have had no association with the military to undesand it. They are making a deliberate effort to destroy the military and they will if this succeeds.

    • smsgt usaf says:

      I totally agree with you all the way. Recommendations like these are coming from people who have never served this country from a military standpoint. Most of them probably ran from the draft when we had one. Nor did these fluke heads volunteer to serve!! Lets start a Tea Party to overhaul their pay and benefits!!!!

  13. this is just bad trying to cut spending with our military,this is what i think the dont ask dont tell should be in congress if they wont let gays in the military then they should not serve in the goverment all the gays in congress that have come out should be kicked out ,im retired navy ive served with many good [people] so thst how i feel

  14. It never fails…When there are cuts in the budget..Congress always start with the military and Retirees.
    When you're in the jungles and deserts, in the ice and snow and away from your famiy..no one talks about cuts. We are falling right into the hands of the enemies. How do you expect to retain an all volunteer force.
    Watch out young folk..The Draft is on the way.

    • Congress has a slogan for this action. Its called "We support the Troops."

    • Ray USAF Ret. says:

      I agree, ALL of the experience top grades will be no more. We need to maintain a secure MILITARY force to protect our country. Cutting retirement and Tri-are will cut inlistments. There are too many not going to look at the military as a means to insure that our leaders are looking out for us. No COLA, but White House gets their automatic pay that they past a bill on.

    • GET OVER IT! says:

      gonna piss you off here…
      One thing I don't agree with your message….cuts did not start with the military. It started with "ALL" of us. Some of us did not choose to go into the military. Nothing against the military, I respect each and every one, but the military does what "OUR" government tells them to do, no matter what. They are your boss, wanna get paid? Seems to me, you are now vested 10 years, not 20. That's good. Retirement age set back a little. Why be special? The general public has been facing this as well as you. We are all in this together, so as we, the general public, speak up and protect you, why don't the military speak up for us. Interesting? Seems one sided. At least the military have a pension plan, most of the public have 401k, which is ran through the stock market. Well, saw what happen there? Just speaking the truth. Stop whining! We all have cut backs! Better get use to it!

    • I have a retired (Vet) husband who has PTSD, TBI, lost the closeness he had with his first two children due to 3 of the 4 tours he was sent to. This also could have played some small role in his divorce to his first wife (who will ever know?) . He was unable to be with me as our daughter was born, due to being deployed to the sand box. (these are emotional issues that are completely overlooked!) There is currently a documentary on HBO "Wartorn: 1861-2010,". Very emotional for our family to watch. This documentary hit home so hard, how many children and young adults are going to watch this and say "no way!" Now the talk of pay freezes, messing with insurance, hearing those in service, or those who have served for short lengths to the 3+ decades complain about the unjust treatment of our Soldiers. Yup, Draft is coming. When we bash, abuse, attack our Nations Soldiers who sign up voluntarily, get sent to volatile areas or outright WAR, then have congress try to short change them after it's been our government who sent/send them over in the first place…who is going to sign on the line? What sort of promises can the recruiters say to encourage potential Heroes? The ONLY people who should be allowed to discuss, propose changes, vote and enact change are our military retirees, our vets, and the families of our fallen Soldiers. If you do not fall into any of these categories then your voice on the matter is just white noise in the background and should not count anymore than the North Koreans opinions count where our finances and health-care are concerned!

    • I hope if these non-veteran govt officials we have elected cut any of our pay or benefits in any way that it will be such a demoralizer for our active duty troops – who they constantly brag about being an all volunteer force will make the wise decision to quit the service before their next re-enlistment or retirement so there is no U.S. military force AT ALL. That way they would have to hire merceneraries like Black Water or reinstate the DRAFT (which I think should have been done a long time ago). I would venture to guess THAT would get some attention from these no-loads we have in Washington about how good a deal they have gotten over the years from our former vets.

  15. I'd like to retire after 10 years instead of 20 – and get the "rest of my life" started. Why is it bad that I have that option? Of course, I shouldn't get the same benefit that we get today – but I only did half the time.

    Not sure why everyone's knickers are in a knot about this. I kind of like the idea.

    • Ditto Matt! Most people complaining here are jumping to irrational conclusions about the recommendations. How many of these careerist would love to have the opportunity to move on with their life after 20 years? People here are getting fired up over nothing. They need to stop blaming the govt. and suck it up!

      • Tony, your an idiot. We have the opportunity to move on after 20 years.

        • Jay, I agree with you, Tony is an idiot. I gave 20 yrs and now i started a new career with the railroad. Having that military pension is a blessing. I started a new life but having that pension is great!

      • A. Richmond Jr says:

        Tony did you have any military service? Do you have any idea of the current retirement pay package?, doubt it.

    • So you can retire after 10 years and not collect your retirement until your 60. Lets say you retire at 29… this means you can't enjoy the benefits of retirement for 31 years.

      • If you live that long! By then, they will have come up with yet another system to cheat you out of your hard earned money.

      • Yes, exactly.

        That sounds blasphemous, but it's because we're so used to a system that provides full retirement after 20 years. These debt panels are saying we can't afford to do that forever, so we need to figure out some alternatives.

        Maybe some of the kids who get out after 5 years might stay until 10 if they would get a retirement package later on in life. They see 15 more years of active duty as a deal-breaker, so they EAOS. But maybe a chunk of them would do 5 more years. I dunno.

        Maybe the 20-yr system we have from decades ago is the absolute best system possible. Could be. I'm just saying that there might be other options than a single one-size-fits all approach.

    • Matt how long have you served in the ARMED Force services? Im guessing either you have served maybe 2-4 years or you not in the ARMED Forces because if you were and served 20+ years and retired or better yet you have 18+ years or served in a combat area you would understand so which one is it?

    • Former Bos'n says:

      As a Desert Storm vet who served 13 years and will never draw any sort of military pension, I think the 10 year provision sounds pretty good!!

      • Thanxs for your service. The choice though to leave was probably yours, you could have chosen to serve in the Reserves / National Guard for your branch and still accumulated towards a retirement, but you choose to sever all ties. Not smart. I always counseled every person to look at what they were leaving on the "table", but doing that very thing. Yes, the 10 year would be good for some people, but many of us love the military and shouldn't be penalized for doing the difficult things that are asked of us by our dysfunctional government. If they pass this, I'm sure the volunteer force will eventually collapse.

      • I retired with 22 years of service Army and my brother got out at 10 years of service. He totally regrets it now working for a little above mininum wage and barely getting by. Makes a big difference when your older.

    • Because this isn't what people have been told that they were getting. If you came into the military, and this is what the policy was, then there would be nothing to complain about. They are trying to change policy for servicemembers who are already enlisted to serve past 20 years. This would reduce what they should be getting by a possible 20 years.

      • the plan clearly states that it would affect future enlistee's NOT CURRENT ONES. I totally agree that you can't change the rules when someone is half-way to their 20 year retirement. This plan would only affect those who are still in grade school today.

        • Actually the plan says for those who are over 15 years. So many people over 10 years that have indefinite enlistments(over 20) would be screwed.

        • They told a lot of us that we would have free health care for life if we enlisted and served 20 years. Then they changed THAT after the fact. At 65 you have to go on Medicare and pay for it just like everyone else, in order to still be eligible for your "free health care for life" that you already earned once.

          They are changing the rules after the fact already, why wouldn't they do it again?

        • But they do change the rules, anytime they see fit to do so and at times, without warning. When my husband and son enlisted the promise was you serve your 20 with a honerable discharge, no break in service and you retain all your benefits – including medical. Three years after my husband retired (1992), in 1995 they changed the rules on the medical benefits for retirees and their qualified dependants. We now have to pay a yearly fee plus co-pay. If we are seen at a MTF (military facility) we still have to pay for Tricare Prime, if we see doctors off base, we have to pay a co-payment for office visits and pharmacy. What was left out of this article is they want to increase Tricare Yearly fee, increase all co-pays and decrease benefits.

          Don't ever say they "CAN'T" cause they "DO" and "WILL"!!

        • Dream on. I've seen too many promises broken by congress. They will do whatever suits them at a given point in time. This goes back to at least the fifities that I'm aware of.

      • Nothing new for the Government to back down on promices as they have been doing that for years.Those entering service in early 1955 were promiced medical and dental care for life after retirement. which they are not getting and to top it off some federal judge ruled that those written agreement werent legal after the fact so our Government can and will do as they please.

    • You LIKE this idea? Seriously? Really??? Wow… amazing that you are buying this BS!

    • A. Richmond Jr says:

      Matt, having been retired for over 15 years now, I've seen retirement issues in a downward spiral from an already total dissapointment. It's not at all what you think it is. This would just give them the opportunity to take more away from an already poor system. That's all they need Matt, a means to take fundings from the retired pay system.so they can continue to receive their pay raises. Have they suggested not receiving pay raises like retires haven't the pass two years. Think about it Matt !!!

    • I would like to say that to retire at 10 yrs would be good, if that was an option. But I think that this will only create a big problem in retainability. The young ones coming in today for the most part are coming in for the college and getting out. We have to give them these bonuses to even get them to stay in. I would say that shouldnt we really look at the ones making these changes(congress and senate)? I mean they get to sit in these offices for a short amount of time and get paid for the rest of their lives. How about cutting their retirement. They don't have to defend this country with their lives and they want to cut our money. How about them not having the ability but to serve but 2 terms like the president? How about them not being able to get the great health care that they get? I wish these changes could take effect more then them changing what has worked for the men and women that defend this great nation. It really makes me mad that they would even table such a thing.

      • yes, I am agree. Why those "m/F" don't get their ritirement pay at the age of 70 since they never served in the military and sacrified for this nation.

      • Steve i agree with you 100%; Congressman and Senators should start by looking at cutting their retirement benefits as well as looking at taking a huge pay cut. Maybe they should not be allowed to authorize themselves pay increases as well. Not only are they looking to cut military retirement benefits but they are considering a pay freeze for the next few years that will impact our active duty forces considerably. Hopefully someone will get them to pull their heads out of their backsides before they get around to voting on the changes.

    • You must be one of these guys that came in for the college money. your heart isn't in it so you would think the easy way out is the way to go. If you are still in the military go ahead and exit stage left, you are no longer wanted here.

    • In response to Matt. Personnally, I don't have a problem with the vesting at 10 years if they would still leave the rest of the retirment system alone. However, under the new proposals, you won't get the same pay. If you look closely at the panel's recommendation you will find that it is a 401K type system where you are expected to contribute. This is modeled very similar to the Federal Employees Retirement System. The basic premise for these panels has been that the military retirement system is too generous and it should be more closely aligned to the civilian world. Unfortunately, the military doesn't operate to a production schedule and our lifestyle ( at least for Marines) requires frequent deployments away from home and family – never mind putting yourself in harm's way for the nation. I don't know who would want to put up with that for 20-30 or more years if you could get a comparable retirement from the civilian world and possibly make more money.

    • That part is ok, and heck, I would have taken it 8 years ago… but now that I am close to 20, don't mess with I have already planned on… at least make this grandfather-able issue so you don't screw people over 10 yrs now. I chose to continue in the military after having kids only b/c of the good retirement. I had given 6 yrs beyond my committment, but chose to stay in primarily b/c of the retirement… suck it up 10 more years, and then be done. I

    • That is the typical selfish, short-sighted response I would expect from this generation. Way to REPRESENT and think of other people besides yourself, TEAMPLAYER!

    • Your right being able 2 retire after 10 years. But I totally dislike the 20 year service member not collecting until 57.

    • You reall aint so smart is you

    • 1SG Mario Sciacca says:

      there is nothing wrong with your choice to receive a pension at 60. The problem is for the rest that stay over 20 and received their pension at 57.
      Fireman and Cops (local, State, and Federal) can retire at 20. Is the Military less protective? Anybody remember burning crap on field training in germany? How about 12 months in Korea? No matter wheather in a foxhole or behind a desk. Hardships come in many different kinds.

    • Matt,
      A 10-yr retirement collected after age 60 as an option i sfine as long as the 50% at 20-yr option (+2.5%/yr) remains. Waiting until 57 to provide benifits is simply wrong. At age 30 or so you're still young enough to go back to school and start a new life direction. Try that at age 45 or later. Additionally, see what happens in another 10-20 years. They'll come up with yet another "good idea" to save money which will be anet loss to the family pocket book.

    • Matt, your not thinking son, yes, it would be great to retire after ten yrs, but, the knicker is they are banking on that you don't live to reach age sixty and so therefore you would never see your retirement. Oh, by the way you would also have to find employment to survive and hopefully reach age 60, the way it is right now, I'm retired, serve 26yrs in the Army, and I work for the next four yrs as a contractor, I am now retired completely at age 50. What a great feeling not to worry about your next pay check, my pension is what I live on and for us few who are completely retired this would get my knickers up, so this is why you should think about it, let's say you have retired after ten yrs and now they are doing the same thing again, trying to find a way to prevent your retirement or alter your retirement, I'm sure you would have your knickers all in a knot?

    • LARRY E, ALDRIDGE says:

      YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND READ THE SUBJECT , IF THEY LET YOU RETIRE AFTER 10 YEARS YOU WANT GET ANYTHING FOR IT UNTIL YOU ARE 57 ARE 60 YEARS OF AGE. DUD

    • Pissed off Airman says:

      The point of retiring is so you don't HAVE to work anymore. How the hell are you supposed to do that if you don't get to collect your benefits until you are 60. I enlisted, If i retire in ten, then i have to wait another 30 to collect. Hell no

    • Are you kidding, even the guys that do 20 years will only stert getting paid at age 57, and after 10 at age 60. that is rediculous you should read it first, and those of us that have been in for 18 years and are ready to retire at 20 and receive our due will be slapped in the face, sure you take the option but don't change my retirement!

    • Matt you are an idiot, I wonder how many years have you serve so far!

    • I have to agree with Matt. If there are no retroactive cuts, then everyone who signs up knows what they are getting into. Of course, those who predict a drop in the all volunteer force have a great point. Now, with the economy on the ebb, we see certain enlistment numbers. Once other jobs become available AND the changes in MIL retirement are in place, all predictions are out the window.

      Dutch

      • You don't have many brain cells left? do you. Read your second paragraph. It starts with "IF". There is no "IF" when it comes to the military. When they make changes, it applies to ALL.

    • Matt I don't know what world you're in but share some of the drugs your taking.

    • Don't forget that you can't draw your retirement until your 60 years old. The reason for this, is that they hope that you DIE before that age so that they don't have to pay. Look a little closer, and you will find that it must be given to YOU, and not to your family members, (i.e. wife/husban/children). If you are not alive, there is on pay.

    • Aaron (SFC Ret) says:

      Matt you must be smoking crack. Reservists that do 20 years get their retirement at age 60, those that do 20 years of actiive regular army get our retirement starting the day we retire. Do you really want to invest 20 years of your life, be broken and bent by the military, and then try to find a job as a 40+ year old man or woman? I don't think you've thought this through. I believe reservists that retire with combat time should be entitled to at least a portion of their retirement right away.

    • CSM William Kermode says:

      Then you have no idea what is going on, spend 30 years serving your country, where family and friends came second, and then tell me this crap is good. It is an insult to every man and woman who has ever served this great country. Command Sergeant Major(retired) and damn proud of it!!!

    • MAYBE BECAUSE WAITING 30+ – YEARS TO ACTUALLY GET THE "MENEFITS" IS JUST STUPID. i want people in MY military that want to be there for the country and the cause….. not the "benefits"

    • Well let me explain it to you Matt, those of us that served 20, or more years think that we deserve our 50 or 75 per cent for our service to our country and the govt. shouldn't consider taking what we have rightfully earned. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that the twenty plus years I served tokk alot out of me physically, and for them to take my benefits would set me and my family back dramatically, so speak for yourself, because it's pretty clear you don't have a clue about those of us that have already served twenty plus years.

    • Maybe you would benefit from these new "plans" for the military but what about those of us who have been retired for years. We are too old nnow to get jobs (if there were any) and we live on very fixed incomes. We waited for twenty years to continue our lives while our classmates got a twenty year headstart. This proposal would literally bankrupt the majority of all the older retirees.

    • And how much will a 10 year retirement check be? Take E-6 base pay and divide by 4. If it's based on the last 3 years average, better throw a year or 2 of E-5 pay in there too. Not worth the trouble.

  16. The "Obamacare Nightmare" must get funded, now we know how they will do it !
    PRODUCERS VS THE MOOCHERS – Welfare & Healthcare for the Moochers …
    But those who Produce & Preserve freedom – THE GOVERNMENT SHAFT !
    THE WELFARE BUDGET NOW EXCEEDS THE DOD BUDGET…
    CUT THE REAL WASTE & FAT – NOT THE MUSCLE !

    • The military is the biggest WELFARE state in the country. Think about it.

    • randy 25 year vet says:

      Wake up, you are blaming the wrong group, you have drank to much Tea Party propaganda.

      • obsessed2 says:

        Really. Here's Michelle:

        "You'll see more down the line that will show, not just in word but in deed, that we have to invest in our military, their families, and our veterans in a real meaningful way," she added. "Whether that's job training, mental health support [or] whether that's ensuring that people have access to the health care they need."

        Ooh, Aah. We love you Michelle. Where is the oohing and aahing now?

        http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/05/08/20787-milita

    • the whole Obama agenda is about punishing the producers and giving to the moochers.
      Dont cut welfare…… no lets go after DOD retirements.
      Come on, as a cop I have seen the fraud and waste first hand in welfare. there is enough savings right there to fix alot.

      Get it right Congress.

    • James wilson says:

      Stan, Did you miss the fact that Republicans had stripped the USA of Banking Laws with Bank Deregulation ????
      WAS THAT NOT A DIRECT ATTACK ON THE USA ????

      Did they shout from the Roof Tops of their great accomplishment ?
      NO !
      iNSTEAD THEY CONSPIRIED TO DEFRUAD AMERICANS OF WEALTH with Sub Prime Loans and Pre Approved Credit Card and changes to the Bankruptcy Laws !!!!!!!
      They stripped Americans of Wealth and the USA !!!!!!

      • That was a democrat congress overpowering a republican president that did that.

        • finally!! Thank You, about time someone mentioned that bit of news, everyone keeps forgetting.

          • 25 year vet says:

            Yes, the Republican party controlled the house most of the time before 2004 remember that when all of the damage was done.

      • Not the brightest are you? It was the Dems and they alone responsible for subprime. Look no further than BArney Frank and Chris Dodd for the authorship. Even GW warned against this action but was unable to overcome the polital correctness of having to give away housing to "poor, underpriveledged" blacks

        • YOUY are not the brightest are you . it was not only poor and underpriveleded black that got roped into the sub prime programs. what about the poor white people that got involed in these programs or don`t they count ?

        • 25 year vet says:

          you are not bright at all.

    • There is NO such thing as Obamacare. This healthcare plan was
      in the works long before President Obama came into office. PLEASE
      ask your Senators and Congressmen to Stop raiding the funds and
      spending dedicated money on frivolous pork items.

      • It's a nickname for the Obamanation that has been created. There is Obamacare.

        • Really, you should stop watching Fixed News. They fill your head with garbage. His policies so far have been to stop the job loss, put money in areas like cops, firefighters and construction, prevent a depression and protect Americans from greedy insurance and credit companies. That's a nation I'm glad to be a part of. Try to remember that the Health Care Bill also had many Republican ideas in it as well. He's just the first President with the balls to make it happen.

    • That's because the government wants everyone under there thumb, so they can tell us what, when, and when to do.
      I can't believe everyone is soooo blind, has the country sleeping, can't they see what is going on.

    • Welfare less than 1/2 of 1 % of the Budget. Corperate Welfare 30% of the budget. Go to OMB.GOV to see. READ Before Talking.

      • FeFe you might want to check those figures again. Medicaid alone was 7% of the budget in 2003 and I'm sure it hasn't gone down.

    • If I'm not mistkaen, doesn't it say that the originators of t his bill are Republicans. Democrat and Republicans have both done their share to piss us off but get your facts together before you start blowing it out of your….

    • SGM Retired says:

      You did notice that the head of this panel was a Republican, didn't you? Republicans only care about you while you are on active duty. Rumsfeld stated he didn't want to give anything to retirees because it would detract from active duty. God forbid they might have to take a little more money from Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

    • I agree with Anthony's comment. The military is the biggest welfare state. Most of our money is wasted. I"m not saying we don't need the military, but too many damn bells and whistles. Also, don't group all recipients into the welfare and healthcare moochers! Yes, there are allot out there, they need to be cut off, but being nieve as some are, there are people who have disabilities, not of their fault, that do collect what little, which is wayyyy below the poverty level and they have extensive expenses for medical applications. Our country have a difficult time extending our gracious thanks to our elders for all they have done. It's the way it is here, Capitalism…. you are born, work, used up and thrown away. It's the American way! Like it or leave it! :)

    • What are you talking about this has nothing to do with those programs. To be frank about it we retirees active duty receive our medical treatment from the government and anything else that we need even when we retiree. My grandmother worked thirty years in the mill and didn't receive nearly as much as we get now and she was not eligible for one program upon retirement because she saved her money and had assets. So don't talk about healthcare and welfare and moochers because all are not. They need to pull all of our troops out of those countries that don't want us there and bring them home they have been gone long enough to many have died and I guarantee that the budget will fix itself and they won't have to mess with the vets benefits. stop outsourcing jobs maybe we have to tae less pay revasmp America and make it great again.

  17. retired paratrooper says:

    i dont remember this blue panel being in the foxhole with me freezing and with tree limbs sticking in my back in the early '70's. they always want to screw with military retirees. maybe this blue panel should have spent 4 months at Fort Polk learning how to low crawl with out getting bit by a coral snake. oh, i forget these panels never have any enlisted on them and never anyone who has been in the military at all. hmm, and we wonder what is wrong with this country.

    • Who cares….nothing in this life is guaranteed. The military is a WELFARE magnet. By the way, I am in the military.

      • So, we are to assume that you speak from your very own personal experience? I'm happy to say that I never had you in any of my commands.

      • If you really are in the Military you are one of those dead beats who lets others do your duty for you and should be separated for the good of the service.I f you think it's welfare you are NOT in the service I served in.Pal I earned every dime I get and DO NOT have to back up to the pay line thank you.

    • Patrick, u sound like a jack butt. Have no Ideal what part of the Marines u were in.

    • Was with the 56th Jolly Green Giants in 71-72, Thailand. I hear ya bro.

    • I spent the last 5 years of my career at 'camp swampy' (Fort Polk). I could not figure out how I could spent 9 years freezing my a s s off in Germany and not get violently ill, but ended up with pneumonia in the deep south at Fort Polk. ANYONE, whether you are in a foxhole or behind a desk in the military who spends 20 years SERVING their country DESERVES their retirement as was PROMISED by their contract.
      Those combats arms need not look down your nose at support personnel, as without the logistics and support arm, as screwed up as it might be, you would be eating your boot leather (like the Iraqis in Desert Storm), and throwing rocks at the enemy.

  18. You guys are a bunch of whiners! Where else can you work (I use that term loosely!) for 20 years and then enjoy a pension for another 40?? You guys have this superiority complex that you 'put your life on the line' and 'spilled blood', blah blah blah. Most of you guys have been nowhere near harms way (yeah, even you guys that have been in the sandbox working at a desk). Relatively few (relative to total number in military) are in harm's way, and there's extra pay for that! (And yeah, I'm a Marine infantry vet, but got out after 5 years rather than living on the dole my whole career.)

    • Patrick – U got out because you couldn't hack it….you sound like a A Fancy Pants Marine

      • I got out because I was surrounded by idiots. You stayed in because you knew you couldn't hack it in the real world.

        • bamasailor says:

          You got out because you were a thief and a stalker. Just a piece of sh*t that couldn't hack it in the Corps.

        • No Patrick, those people around you were not idiots. Those were Marines who are willing to give their lives for their country, and for their brothers in arms – even for you.

        • Double Ace says:

          Yeah Patrick I run in to guys like you everyday. Speaking of whiners, you sound like one. Couldn't cut the USMC huh?

    • Are you equating a military retirement with a civilian retirement? Let's be sure that whoever reads this knows the difference…yes, we may get retirement pay the year we retire BUT (and its a big BUT) most folks don't understand that our retirement after 20 years is 50% of BASE PAY only! For those who don't know why this is significant, let me explain. Base Pay is often times only half of the pay the military gets each month. The rest of the paycheck is conveniently comprised of entitlements that the government offers to active duty but do not get figured into retirement pay.

      • So yes… lets compare that to civilian retirement, where a company pays exactly 0% of base pay.

        • Patrick, your out of your f@##$%$ mind, I'm not a marine but I am a 26 year vet. Companies are in it for themselves and so arn't you. The services (all 5 of them) are in it to serve. In order to get a retirement you need to serve 20 years to a company that tells you when you can be home, when you can sleep, when you have the watch….Could get called at any time and you go because it's a duty. The Greatest Generation understood it, lived it, most of the got out, and they stil understand it, your a jakeward, and the tissue paper is on you bed.. thoses who serve gave more then you will ever understand, but thankfully the brotherhood of service men and women know and feel sorry even for missinformed, lost people like you…

        • Navy lifer says:

          Hey Patrick, just out of curiosity, how much are you making in your present job? Because you remind me of those people that I served with who believed that they were too good to be in the military. None of them did well in the civilian sector. And I believe you're the same way.

      • Torquemada says:

        You're right CG Wife but it's even less than that for those of us who came in after Aug 80 (it's High-3, which is < 50% of base pay). And I am surprised that no one has brought this up yet but what about the Former Spouse Protection Act (another gift from Congress, unique to military) that has you lose 1/2 of your less than 50% to your ex-spouse. And we deserve MORE pay cuts to balance the budget? I don't think so.

        • Since you brought it up, let's discuss the Former Spouse Protection Act enacted in 1986 to protect the spouses who where abused in so many ways, and had no protection. Being married to a military member does not automatically make you eligible for 50% of their pay. Minimum time married I believe is 12 years, the longer you are married the higher the percentage. For me, if I pushed it, I could have gotten all of it. This was not a gift! Read it before you pass a judgement. I was married for 27 years to a miliary man, including his 20 years active (1972-1992). During his 20, his uniforms never went to the cleaners, all mending (including stripes, name tags, patches, etc.) were done by me. His duffle bag for emergency deployments was kept up according to military specs, by me, ALL household duties were taken care of by me (he had no idea how to pay bills when we separated).

        • He never took any of the kids to any of their dr. appts., not even for sports physicals (we have 3 boys), I am the one who bought their first Jock Strap or talked to them about the facts of life where he should. We won't even go into how many times I was able to help him with legal issues by reading the UCMJ. I lost out on a malpractice lawsuit because I choose to follow my husband with our children where ever he went. He was 40 and I was 38 when he retired, we both found jobs, his was permanent mine was temporary. You have no idea how hard it is to get a job when your resume shows a job every 3 years. Yes, we chose this life and I loved the fact that we, yes "WE" were doing something for our country. Until the FSPA, violense, losing our children cause most had no skills and the military member could provide a steady income, housing and medical where no longer a threat to us. To say this is a gift to us is ludicrous. We, as spouses, may not have held a gun in our hands, but we did support our country by supporting & loving our spouses, holding down the home front.

    • Patrick, being a REMF half-stepping "Marine" for five years before quitting because you you didn't know what dedication means hardly makes you an authority. In fact, you should be too ashamed to comment; you aren't in the same league as most of the MEN that stuck it out for twenty years.

      • Hahaha… very self righteous. You stuck it out because you were to scared to try to make it in the real world without a government check every month.

        • bamasailor says:

          And you were to scared to stand your watch you chickensh*t.

        • Maybe you couldnt stick it out in the military and thats why you have sour grapes to what you found on the outside? You benefitted. Did you use your educational benefits? Maybe they should take back any benefit you recieved. Why did you join? Sounds to me that someone is angry. Some choose the military for a carreer does not mean they are scared. most get good paying jobs afterwards. you chose what you wanted. I think you are missing the point.

    • YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE ANY MARINE I KNOW–MORE LIKE A SLACKER THAT COULDN'T HACK IT. WHEN I THINK OF ALL THE DAYS AWAY FROM MY FAMILY, THE RIGORS OF TRAINING FOR THE WAR THAT WE ALL PRAYED THAT WOULD NEVER COME-THE PAY WE RECEIVE IS NOT NEAR ENOUGH. TELL YOUR STORY TO THE THOUSANDS(100'S thousands) OF VIETNAM VETS THAT SUFFER FROM THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS OF AGENT ORANGE-SEE WHAT IT WILL GET YOU. AFTER READING YOUR STORY, I SEEM TO BELIEVE THAT THE REASON YOU"GOT OUT" WAS BECAUSE YOUR "IQ" WASN'T HIGH ENOUGH TO KEEP YOU IN THE MARINES, EVEN AS A GRUNT. I SUSPECT YOU THINK YOU GOT AA RAW DEAL AND ARE GOING TO GET EVEN AND THAT MARKS YOU MORE OF A "LOSER" THAN I PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT POSSIBLE. ENJOY YOUR LIFE WHILE THE MEN AND WOMEN PROVIDE THE PROTECTION FOR YOU TO DO SO.

    • I concur Patrick. I have served 21+years and continue to serve. The military is a BIG WELFARE institution.

      • TONY needs a transfer to where the real action is, as it's not on his desk! 21 years" You need to retire without pay!

      • For the few, not the many. I agree that our leaders(E-7 and above) do not supervise, train, and lead our men and women properly. This leads some parts of the military to laziness and lack of bearing. They mooch. But again, that is the few. You have been in for 21 years. Does this mean you support this WELFARE institution? Have you put in the effort to change it? Will you give up your retirement until 57 in support of this?

      • USCG Chief says:

        Tony,

        If you are infact active duty military and your believe the military is a BIG WELFARE institution then you are obviously not pulling your weight, or you are you are just a by-stander not requiring those around you to pull their weight because you are too weak to enforce the consequences necessary to compel compliance.

        Maybe you could be specific as to who you are, what service you work for, and who's your boss. Not that anyone would believe you anyway.

      • Tony, If you feel this strongly then waive your retirement check and give it to the less fortunate when you finally get out of the welfare system. If you truly feel this way you must be one of those opieces of garbage that hides from deployments, tuff duty and the likes. Glad I am not serving with you as you sound like a loser even with 21 years in.

      • So you admidt after you got yours. Thats funny! say what ever, after you benefit.

    • As a famous Admiral once said to Japan, " NUTS " and I say it to you Patrick! Have a great day with your mental condition opinion!

    • Patrick you have proved my point you only served 5 years now I understand your'e forgiven ignorance is not always bliss

    • "Got out" or "got kicked out"? Were you "sad", or did you play the "I'm hurt" game? Sand box, that's one of many places we spend the MAJORITY of our lives away from a normal reality or the fairy land life you live in. Yes, there should be a benefit to serving our country, reguardless of the few that sit and do nothing for 5 years. If you couldn't handle it, ok. But don't come back bashing those of us who could. One carrier in the gulf, that's roughly 5000 people in harms way. And that's a 6-10 month run at a time. Get real Pat.

      • I got out because I did my duty, served, then got on with my life. You guys just keep sucking at the nipple because you know you would be working flipping burgers in the real world. When is the last time a carrier was attacked? That's exactly my point – just because you wear a uniform doesn't make you a hero.

        • Master At Arms Chief says:

          Patrick,

          Not sure if you really are a Marine and when you served. But you make me sick. You don't have to die for your country to be a hero. No one here has said because one sat behind a desk they were a hero. For a so called formae Marine you are clueless and one sorry excuse for a Marine. For every troop in the field there our a lot of troops working behind the seans to make sure the ones on the battle field get all the food, supplies, and intell required to win on the battle field. Beause you could not hang for a 20 years and my guess most likely got kicked out you hate the military today. I served for 23 plus years. Servered in Deseert Storm, and the War on Terrorism. Have been to the sand box twice since 9-11. Have suffored from one divorce, almost a second and missed three children being born and my oldest daughters wedding. So don't tell me I my service was welfare.You are a fool. By the way I now work for a civilian corporation as a Vice PResident of Security Operations and manage the security for this entire corporation. So yes I can make it in the real world. You are the one who could not make it in the military.

          • Master Chief, well said. I had three OIF tours, one divorce and much sacrifice. Appreciate your service. 17 yrs and proud of it and looking forward to my retirement benefits as earned. Major

        • Exactly what point??? Hero?? Flipping burgers? Sad Pat, just sad.

        • Don't think you would know a "hero" if you saw one.

        • Retired Gunny-man says:

          Patrick!!! Man, you are a riot!!! You obviously harbor bitterness toward my grand and glorious Corps because you were a fat body, got busted on a piss test, or maybe performed bestiality on the General's pet pooch. But, I'll guarantee you have that Marine Corps service listed prominently on your resume. It's always the non hackers that that whine the loudest. Nothing to see here, folks. Patty's simply venting because he's jealous of real men and women.

        • i understand what you are saying but you still sound like a moron not to mention very ignorant. Thats my point. Would you know what makes a hero? I am not sure what you believe is a hero but someone who is willing to do this job is a hero. Jason Dunham had the chance he took it because he was willing. Are you going to say he is not a hero. What about the the sailors and soliders comming back from afgan or iraq with half a leg or arm because you do know that sailors are not just on ships or stateside now right? We do everyones jobs. It seems like a lot of other people have done your job too. Don't worry we have everything under control. keep bitchin

      • He sounds more like a concientious objector to me. He obviously never deployed or do anything worthwhile for that matter. I've known plenty of cowards just like him…

    • Former Bos'n says:

      It's sad but the responses to Patrick's comment just show how many simple minded boneheads are out there. I'm a Desert Storm vet who got out after 13 years and has since been serving my country working in American industry, trying like heck to keep this country competitive in the business world. 30 years ago big companies had juicy pension plans, like the military, but virtually none do anymore. Times have changed, and such luxuries are no longer affordable. The military needs to move with the times and adjust the benefits to align them with the realities of the economy today. It's not an offense to the military to change the benefits, it's just reality. Military benefits used to be similar to civilian benefits but now are considerably better. That's not sustainable.

      • The benefits are better because most civilians do not spend years at a time fighting in oif/oef. The ones that do happen to go to oif/oef, most of which have nothing to do with actual combat operations, get paid considerably more than a servicemember. I wouldn't expect a former paint chipper to understand this though.

        • Good hits Jay. Needle Gunner is the new term. I'm on a boat right now and it's true the Navy doesn't have mission drive and is more of a union, BUT they are separated from their families just the same, and that takes it's toll and is a huge price to pay for free sea lanes.

      • jack the ripper says:

        Jobs are different too. and at one time the pay for a private was 53.00 a month, ask me I was on the payroll.. and this was not even close to the civilian sector. Thanks to Bryan Dorn from South Carolina, some adjustment was made. And, the pay in The civilian sector does not even compare to the Army Pay for the rank and file.. even today..
        There is a difference too in being shot at and running a weaving loom.

      • Sorry, Boats. What you say just dosen't make sense. I am a 20 year retiree. My service spans the Post World War II occupation, the Korean "police action" (Truman's words, not mine) and Vietnam War (and it was a war). My total "deployment" time was 11 of my 20 years. When I "retired", as an E-7, I went into civilian employment at nearly double my basic pay AND allowances. I don't know the reason YOU got out after only 13 years, but it must have been for a lucrative position with a civilian company. No one intentially gives up after 13 years of military service without a GOOD reason. Were they going to transfer you to another "deployment" that you didn't like?

    • You got out because you're weak and couldn't handle it. Face the facts pal.

    • Where else can you work and I will use your term loosely Congress. After one term you have a pension and medical care for life. Did they really work no they had all their aids doing it for them while they traveled around the US and some times the world at government expense. I spent 27 years in both active and reserve starting in Viet Nam and i gave up a lot of family time but i was willing to do it you decided to get out so fine but to change this and not touch congress's plans. Oh by the way they are not under socical security either their plan is very sound so why not take that money and put it into social security since they borrow from social security and never paid it back. Retired Chief Hospital Corpsman

      • Right on, Chief!
        I only disagree as to the criminals on the Hill: they didn't borrow anything-they stole the first penny out of the first paycheck we ever made, and that is why the military retirement system, social security, Tricare and Medicare are all "unsustainable."
        Not to mention the "trifling trillions" that the welfare generations have been given for their "sacrifice!" Ha!
        When the new military adopts their "pink uniforms," and stick their "illegal alien" patch on them, we'll all have a military to be proud of!
        That is if you're a scumbag liberal, socialist goddamn pig like the current bunch of idiots who make the decisions, and don't have to live with the consequences!

    • An SW/PJ wife says:

      as far as: working" 20 years and getting pension for the rest of your life. The good companies like IBM, CSX etc do it and they dont sit there wondering how they are going to take away the retirees benifits. yes my grandmother still gets all of it after 65 years .5 years? yeah well if you had finishied a 20+ year commitment then you would have a say. BMO is you dont get one.

    • Yeah, you probably got out for the good of the service. Couldn't Hack it???

    • Patrick, 5 Years. You have no right to judge those who are fighting today and protecting your freedoms so you can sit your fat butt in a chair somewhere, Sounds like you were one of the ones who could not make the sacrafice to remain. You don't sound much like a marine to me and for sure not infantry.

      • I served my time, so don't hand me this sanctimonious 'protecting my freedoms' crap. And my butt is still in quiet good shape, which is more than I can say for all the fat-asses that I'm seeing in the military these days!

        • crazythunder says:

          Patrick, just wondering why you are on a Military.com web site when you clearly hate the military and possibly hate America as well. Or, are you just an idiot that hides behind the internet to make stupid statements and belittle the people that can do what you failed to do. You didn't get out because you wanted to, you were chaptered out on a BCD and didn't get promoted above E-3 in the 5 years you were in.

        • 5 Years that Number bothers me if you completed successfully it would be 6 with that said i still work for a living in the civilian sector and i will bet i am in much better shape at 55 than you i work as a molding tech lifting and carrying and installing molds 35lbs and and bigger all day. Now i will not pay the respect to you that many others have because you have not to us you and x marine the others are former they never quit ….. you did pussy! SFC usa Ret. 22+yrs and still serving and they still call me SGT. Rock

        • I am curious, You are not supplying any information as to your services to this country, I honestly believe that you are a burger flipping daddys boy who is on daddys computer trying to get all these reactions. Speaking as a disabled Vet who served my time in the United States Air Force, 1978 to 1991, why haven't you made comment about how Congress and Senate get retirement pay for supposedly serving their country for only one 4 year term. Thing is you cannot comment. Not unless this venue was filled with congressman and senators. Also, before you reply with a sanctimonious remarks about who and what you were I might say I worked with mentally disturbed individuals, so, I know a little something about what your logic of continuous remarks are. A little man trying to gain attention. Prove me wrong, don't repsond to any other posts. If you do I rest my case.

        • K. Lilly, USAF,ret. says:

          My butt, as well as the rest of me is in great shape as it has always been. It is my opinion you are a liar, and a fraud who was never in the military. I was an Air Traffic Controller in the Air Force, i enjoyed it, and I was very good at it, enough that I was offered a job in the FAA several times, but I loved my job and the freedom in it, which is not something the civilians can say. Trouble is you sit in a Tower or radar unit while rockets or mortars are being dropped on you, but it is the job that requires your presence with little between you and explosive junk. Nothing brave, just DUTY. And, that is what everybody responding to your stupid crap is relating. Or, it might be the fact that your choice of work can put you where the temp in the long winter is a constant 40 degrees below zero, with the closest town 300 miles away, and all you see is ice enclosed rock. Or, it might be the fact your shift is a swing, afternoon, morning, mid.

          • k.Lilly, USAF,ret. says:

            I'll tell you this too: you don't think of it as Patriotic, just your duty, though you may feel your job is a bit intrusive in living your life, but you always have a sense that it is something more than self. That is why I think you are a liar and fraud. Youn have no distinction in doing something that is more than just self..

    • First off you sure are no Vet….your a quitter who probably got in so much trouble they booted your ass out because you couldnt hack it. Second your an EX-marine as far as I'm concerned, you panty waste.

    • A. Richmond Jr. says:

      Where did you serve Patric?, "In Contry" and in combat are totally different! You obviously were not a in combat and probably not allowed to reinlist due to some short commings. You obviously have no idea of military retirement pay issues othet than what you have read. Stop hating Patric!

    • CTRC(SW) USN Retired says:

      I never met a Marine whom I didn't respect. Oh, that's right you were a lab test. Thank GOD you are not beside my son in Baghdad. He's been shot twice in one day, two buddies killed the next day when their vehicle was hit and then he was blown up on the third day. After all that he re-enlisted. As a retired Navy Chief, I'm proud to know him. He joined the Army and I was proud of him. If he survives you should kiss the ground he walks on.

      I personally am ashamed of you. Maybe we can reintroduce the draft and make you a retread. Maybe then you might understand the sacrafices that have been made so stupid people like yourself can say the stupid things that you do.

    • Jarhead :>) says:

      Patrick,
      You sound like a person with an ax to grind, attacking the military which makes me wonder if you ever were a Marine. I served 30 and retired as a SgtMaj, and I know I earned my retirement. and I would do it again even with a different a lesser retirement package. Shame on you for breaking the Code,
      Semper Fi, Live Free Or Die
      JD Sends

      • Good for you and all the other Marines that I know. Proud to be one of your "brothers" (even if I was a "swabbie"). LOL

    • If they pay military members a competitive wage while on active duty, then they can pay retirement benefits later on. When I first enlisted in 1971, the pay was $99 a month. Until the 80's, the pay was way behind what I could have earned in civilian life. The possibility of early retirement was a benefit to stay in, otherwise what family man would stay in 20 plus years. Be honest, you got out in five, not because you were tired of living on the dole, but because you could make more in civilian life. As soldiers bodies get older, the lure of beds at night instead of sleeping bags gets more powerful.

    • Patrick you got out cause you coulndt hack it . Some 1st shirt probably put his foot up your ass or you were such a looser they wouldn't let you stay. And I am a combat vet. USMC

    • Seniorcheif says:

      Well marine, you evidently didn't loose any blood, sweat and tears, miss special holidays, kids birthdays, school plays, doing things with the family, and look the wolf in the eye the way I and many of my brothers and sisters have. You have not stood the watch so all else in America can be safe and enjoy the freedoms our great country enjoys. We stayed in the service, not for the money, it isn't very good, not for the glory, the is not any glory in seeing your friends blown to pieces, seeing their life's blood spewing from their broken body, hearing the cries of anguish from your friends and comrads, having the never ending nightmares, dreams, and memories war has on people. We stayed for honor, courage, and commitment to God, Country and family. I am surprised to see this kind of remark form a marine. God Bless the United States, from an old seniorchief petty officer, retired, 38 years serving in the military active duty and reserve, in the Army, Air Force and Navy Seabees. I am very proud and honored to have served the United States of America, don't mess with my retirement.

    • You are just P.O.'d because you made the WRONG decision and didn't do 20 quit your complaining and leave us RETIREES alone. Go stand on a corner and tell the world what you think of the retirees and the system and see who gets thumped! Try Ft. Bragg or Ft. Drum. then report back your findings oppss thumps

    • LSA-SMSgt, Ret, 1Sgt says:

      Patrick, you are an idiot ! Plain and simple.

    • SSG L. Bradley says:

      Yep, and you probably were a shitbird too. I served 9 years in the Corps and retired from the Army . I draw my pension ever month and enjoy it along with full Tricare benifits. I would gladly trade to return to active duty.

    • Rick Ouellette says:

      Hey Patrick-those who stayed are people dedicated to the preservation of freedoms enjoyed by our citizens. Those who got out just could not take the pressure of military life. You sound envious because you do not qualify for military retirement benefits but probably wish you had stayed in another 15 years. I meet people like you every day. You probably hate your job if you have one and are earning minimum pay . You are probably looking to retire at age 70 if you can afford it. You probably will end up with Social Security as your main retirement., That ,Patrick, is probably your situation and now you are angry at those who stayed.

    • Calvin Morrison says:

      Patrick i put over three years actual time on a carrier. If you aren't taking a risk there, your'e hiding inside some where. Try that in the dark to.Veterans deserve more than what they get. Washington should be the ones taking the cuts. Instead of raping the people that protect them.

    • Patrick,
      Good on you for serving 5 years. I've been in for 19 been on 5 deployments: 3 in Afghanistan(UDP) 1 Iraq, 1 Kosovo off the carrier. I think combat pay is about $230 a month. I'm a pilot and have been in harms way plenty, but I don't begrudge those who work in logistics, staff ect. They make what we do possible. Most who are in the military could make more money on the outside. Also the worst part is family separation not getting shot at.
      Defined benifits is an exceptional benifit and I view it as a payback for several years spent away from my family and foregoing the extra compensation I could have recieved on the outside.
      Not everyone should stay in 20 years and I'm cool with a 10 year plan and TSP, but for those that do stay 20 I think what we get is reasonable and deserved.
      That's my two cents

      • Sarah AF wife says:

        A pilot…thank you for your service, but I just want to clarify something. My head tilted when you said "I don't begrudge those who work in logistics, staff, ect…". I'm afraid this implies that anyone in those fields are never in harms way. As the wife of a recently retired Lt. Colonel in the Air Force, I can tell you that those in the logistics career fields are on a deployment tempo that matches and even exceeds some of the pilots. My husband has also deployed several times and served a remote….all without the extra flight pay or bonuses. He wasn't just in a desk, either. Part of logistics is managing the vehicle operators. My husband, and many others like him, have ridden on convoys through combat zones with their troops…even when they weren't required to. And yes…he definitely could have made more money in the civilian world. Again…I appreciate your service. I think your comments were well intended, but they came off as slightly patronizing to the "support staff".

    • I do not know where you served but I spent 20 years in and never worked less than a 45 hour week during my entire career. When I went in I received $98.00 a month for those 180 plus hours. Some of it was not in harms way but over 12 years of it was in the Pacific during Viet Nam and in Korea with the Peblo so do not say anything about not earning my retirement and my pay when I was in. I have the disabilities from that duty to make living far from pleasant. I am honored to be a Veteran and you do not deserve to even classify yourself as a vet with your attitude. You must have screwed up and go booted after 5.

    • Sorry Patrick but this retired "WHINER" thinks you got out because you are to much of a coward to serve. Just sign me retired Korean Veteran & damnnn proud to have served 21 years

    • Senior Chief (Ret.) says:

      Patrick, u r a doofus. Shut up and sit down before u hurt ur sorry ass.

    • MSgt, USAF ret says:

      Maybe it's time to join the front lines and actually serve,

    • Rick Robbins says:

      Yes , but when you get to the so called retirement age of "60" and try to draw your retirement, you will get nothing…. right now at tweny years you get 1/2. So at ten years you will get half of that. So half of nothing id nothing.

    • My guess is you were thrown out…most in the real military are not on the dole as you call it and do in fact earn their megar pay..apparently the Marine Infantry was sitting on their fat asses collecting while the Army was busy taking care of business..not sure what rock you came out from under but it was obviously very dark and void of reality.

    • well good for you, and there are those who served for twenty years and deserve their retirement. Maybe you just could not hack it for tewnty and bailed out and now you are sour grapes.

    • TONY GOLDEN says:

      Patrick you just made yourself sound like a complete idiot!!!! 5 years….WOW….the way you were talking I thought you were going to say at least 15 to 20 years! So you don't have the slightest clue what a real military career even is……you didn't even stick around long enough to earn any type of pay or benefits…so why would you care?…..why did you even bother to post a comment?

    • Patrick, I agree 100%.

    • SOUTHERNBORN says:

      So you could not handle the so called heat that you had to do what you had to do. Unless you have been in what you call harms way , you have no room, repeat, no room to talk. Unless you have been there shut the h_ _ _ up and go about your puney job because the ones who did go into harms way aloud you to do what you do now, without this you could not do what you do.

    • You are a liar Patrick! You never spent a day in the Marines.

    • You wasn't a true marine. You were someone looking for something for nothing. Get into politics where you belong.

    • What do you do now that you quit being a man?

    • Caught hell did you? What do you think of your fellow vets now?

      The country is broke. Fine we "sacrificed". Sacrifice again then, like you actually cared for the country not just for what you get out of it. The bill will ask that we pay something into retirement. Then maybe copays etc for health and dental; user fees for MWR. A slightly smaller pension.

      Is that so much to ask? If it is then all the sacrifice will be in vain. What happens when the fiscal situation become untenable? No one will get a pension then. They are not asking for penury, just a joint effort for the good of the country; isn't that what you signed up for in the first place?

      • Sure sounds good Gunny but what if we ask congress to stop giving their selfs pay raises (very hefty) pay raises at that. Perhaps they to can sacrafice just a little for our(their) country

      • Yes, it is to much to ask for expecially when you are promised one thing and then they zap you with something else. When my husband joined in 1972 retirement included 50% base pay and free medical and dental for life (he retried 1992). This same was when our son joined in 1990. That all changed in 1995 when they switched us all to Tricare Prime, if we paid for it, even if we used a military treatment facility. If we use a civilian facility we have co-pays along with a yearly fee for Tricare Prime. If we want dental, there is a plan that covers barely anything and is costly.

        You want joint effort for the good of the country, then I say all politicians take a cut in pay, freeze their pay, and change the constitution where it states they automatically get COLA unless they vote not to take it, which they did for 2010 and 2011, but that's not good enough.

    • Gary Blankenship says:

      Must be nice when your head is that far up a warm, dark place. If you lost your courage, you could have at least been neutered. We need people who don't run when a paperclip falls.

    • If this doesn't apply to you then just move along.

    • Barney Frank says:

      Patrick had to get out because the DoD hadn't changed their policy of Don't Ask Don't Tell at the time when he quit. With things going as they are no, he may be able to get back in and do the other 15 years and qualify like the rest of us for the pension if these yahoos in Congress don't axe it first. Does that make you happy Patrick?

    • annieoakley100 says:

      Well, thanks anyway for your service, Pat. Sorry to see that you carry around so much hatred, though. You sound like you're trapped.

    • Bmamsailor says:

      Everyone,

      From Jarhead2222 – Everyone, I have known Patrick for 6 years. He was discharged from the Marines for stalking his ex girlfriend, and shoplifting. That is why he is bitter, I just thought everyone should know.

      Maybe someone isn't telling the truth about themselves, eh Patty – I mean patrick, btw, what is your prisoner number?

    • dude, you couldn't cut it in marines and now your talking trash! just because you deployed to camp cupcake does not mean jack, I hate unpatriotic prior service guys.Next your going to start complaining about the GI bill and how you or no one else deserves it. you have alot to learn marine.you should be proud of your service. you should have never worn the uniform

    • obviously you didnt spend enough TIME busting your a s s. I once saw an army commercial back in the 80s that said ' in the army we do more before 8am than most people do all day'.
      I did more in 20 years in the army under horrible 'non union' conditions than most civilians did in 40.
      I feel I should get MORE than what I do, but chalk it up to service to my country. While IN THE MILITARY, i was legally BELOW the poverty level, my health is in shambles from military related service, but I cannot get in to a V.A. hospital that is flooded with the current batch of disremembered, disfigured vets, which I will gladly take a back seat to.
      FYI, the average life expectancy of a 20 year vet is 7 years after retirement.
      Do a search on how many desert storm career vets are hanging around. Also check out the vietnam vets (the ones who are still alive)

    • You are surely one of those far left liberals, whose brain doesn't function properly. Unfortunately, there is no sense "Arguing with Idiots", as Glenn Beck's book so accurately depicts. Pathetic and dangerous to society, the likes of YOU are!

    • grow up patrick. what are 4f or very fat. sounds alot of bitterness. all because you couldn't serve. move on.

    • BM1 USN(ret) says:

      Hey Patrick. 1st of all thank you for your service to your country. I am a 20 year retired Navy vet and as of yet my retirement is not affected by anything the government has done. I do however think you are missing the point, that being the fact that the young people in the services today were made a promise, which is now in danger of being broken. These men and women have and are upholding an oath to our country and deserve the same. Ever give any thought as to what might happen if they broke their promise to us? It's called anarchy and trust me it would not be pretty. As for the name calling, you are only showing us that you are immature and cannot or will not have an intelligent discussion of the facts. By the way, "in harms way" is relative to what weapon is being used. Don't believe me? Ask the families of the 911 victims if they now consider themselves to be" in harms way."

    • Pat, good point. However read this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26372

    • You must have spent your time (5 yrs) working in the chow hall. Because your unit did not want you. You obviously did not spend 5 years in a Marine
      infantry unit and not sacrafice anyting.Get a grip I__ot

    • larry e. aldridge says:

      once a marine allways a marine in your case it doesn't sound like it, you have to think about all the service members that did not come back from a war zone, don't just think about your sorry self getting out after 5 years of time, i bet you are one of them vets down at the va trying to get your benefits that you didn't earn.

    • Army_eng_wife says:

      Patrick you are as anti-american as the president! What about the time they spend away from families missing births, birthdays, holidays, etc? What about those who served their 20 years and come out not the same but unable to get disability. They should cut welfare for the deadbeats who won't get off their duffs and do something for themselves.

    • 22 year vet says:

      2 words Patrick FUCK YOU You couldn't handle a soldiers life if that is the opinion you have of us. I hope that you are just trying to stir the pot to see what kind of responce you would get. You would probably shit your pants the first time you get shot at. Pansy ass.

    • retiredsarge says:

      Bet you were ineligible for reenlistment and had to get out.

    • Patrick there are companies in those same AOR's that get paid $200k+ a year for the same work paid for by the gov contracts. I would get paid less than a 1/4 of that for going out there. Where is the relevance to your argument when some people are getting that kind of money?

    • You were never a marine, you are just here to get people's goat. No real marine would ever let that much ignorant bs come out of there mouth, if you were you were probably kicked out for doing something stupid and now you are bitter about it. Either way you were never a real Marine!

    • Another soldger says:

      You had your chance for the same deal but you were in the Marines.
      Enough said about the jar-head. Not to much upstairs. Especially in the infantry.

    • Aussie veteran says:

      You are sitting on your brains Patrick, I am a Australian Vietnam veteran that served with US forces and they saved me on many occasions, the USA has the best men and women fighting for world freedom and they do not deserve your stupid remarks, you obviously did not see combat so I suggest you pull your head in, and as far as enjoying a disability pension you are a mental midget, nobody enjoys being wounded and I would swap that pension any day not to be disabled, if you are a real man you would apologize for the insane remarks you have made.

    • Hey Pat…..Apparently you are not much of a man, 5 years is a cake walk. When did you join? Oh wait maybe it was the Judge or the threat of Job Corps that put you in Bad ass Marines. Final words !!!!!! YOU PUSS……

    • I hope you die soon Patrick. You are not a Marine and don't claim to be one. You're just mad you didn't stay in. You quit and took the easy path. I took the easy path after 22 years. I make more money and it's the easiest thing I've ever done (being a civilian). Stop whining QUITTER!

    • Hey scumbag kiss my Azz!!!

    • Hope Bjorklund says:

      Patrick then you defend yourself I would not want anyone I love defending you My husband worked hard his 21 years far harder than you did

    • take it to the polls says:

      I am sure that you are proud of some part of your service, it not all. These so called whiners (me included) are no longer in uniform and standing tall to defend the pay and benefits for those still serving. Our fellow Americans are answering the call so we can enjoy freedoms (like airing comments like this), they rate our thanks and compensation, right? I suggest that you attend a funeral for one of these kids returning after spilling their blood for our freedom and way of life, I'll bet you would walk away better for having seen it. God Bless and thank you for your service.

    • yeah go try that agian. maybe you missed a mine somewhere. Did you get the chance to go somewhere in conflict or are you washed up about the chance you didnt get. YOU GOT OUT AFTER 5 freaking years. I have Boots that have been in longer and probably are more trust worthy!

    • PATRICK YOU FIT RIGHT INWITH THOSE ON THE PANEL, YOU COULDN'T HANG WITH THE MILITARY LIFESTYLE. SO YOU GOT THE HELL OUT, COULD IT BE YOU WOULD LIKE A RETIREMENT CHECK AND ARE UPSET ABOUT THAT. SUGEST YOU TAKE A BACKSEAT AND SHUT -UP UNTIL YOU SPEND 20 OR 30 YEARS OF LIFE, LIKE SO MANY OF US HAVE. WE HAVE EARNED IT AND DESERVE IT AND SO DO SERVICE MEMBERS TODAY DO.

    • Fort Hood USA says:

      Wish I would have joined the Marines, I joined the army and the life you give up is worth letting you retire a few years earlier. I go to work everyday work my A$$ off to turn around and be called in and held late, yeah a life I sighned up for, but looking at my son and thinking back over the years everything that it cost him wasnt worth retiring at 20. For you to even put your opinion in after getting out after 5 years is an insult. You couldnt handle it for 6 years so how do you know what men and women serving 20+ years deserve!!!!

    • R MONDRZEJEWSKI says:

      I DONT CARE IF IT APPEARS ON THE SITE, AS LONG AS THE COCKSUCKER I REPLIED TO, GETS A COPY

    • Maybe you hit your stupid jarhead too many times, Moron! Did you ever promise someone some thing and then not come through with the promise? You probably voted in Obama too…….. how do you like the change now?

    • patrick YOU Are NOt A Marine.you are a pos

    • Patrick,
      Once you put your name on your contract you put yourself in harms way. We all can't earn medals, but we all would lay down our lives for a fellow service member when called upon. Most of us anyway. Yeah, I know this probably sounds corny, super patriotic, and blah, blah, blah. Semper Fi Devil Dog. Eagle

    • Navy Chief says:

      Are you on call 24/7..365? You've obviously never been "deployed" on land or ship…19 hour workdays..been there…done that…5 years where? Stateside? Out after 5 …did not want to live on the dole?….then name calling…I can see why you never went any further than 5 years…it is obvious!

    • War X 4 wife says:

      superiority complex? You have GOT to be kidding!!! You State: "Most of you guys have been nowhere near harms way (yeah, even you guys that have been in the sandbox working at a desk)." REALLY? You're going to go there??? The Soldiers who have not actually been in harms way have had harms way looming over their heads for the whole duration of service and have had to TRAIN constantly! (This you should know!) That is STILL a Hero! Obviously, you are so ignorant about the "Guys that have been in the sandbox working at a desk" that it pretty much voids out your whole comment. The "desk guys" (as you put it) are still in harms way. And yes, they do come home sometimes damaged through TBI, PTSD, (if not actually popped by an enemy who were able to get in, or a bomb that was able to make it to it's destination by the enemy; the disease and viruses, bugs and general contamination is more than an average American citizen would want to deal with; and the emotional cost of knowing more in-depth information about what goes on "in the sandbox" than anyone else…and that information is downright horrifying! Stuff of nightmares. I might be able to understand if you were just so disillusioned during your service that you make these thoughtless comments. But you've stated nothing that gives me that impression.

    • My guess is you were chaptered out leggo!

    • Patrick I served for 21 years in the Navy with 18 of those years in the Submarine force. Your right I never had a shot fired at me in anger. But I would like to see you spend 45 days following some Russian sub around the ocean hoping not to get caught. How about spending 20 days under the ice sitting off a Russian port. By the way I'm a maintenance supervisor in a local steel mill a job I wouldn't have except for the training I got when in the service. And please don't call yourself a vet you may have servied in the military but you are no vet by any means.

    • I'm also a Marine vet, and am figuring you didn't "get out", they probabaly kicked your dumb ass out !

    • u r dumb

    • WELL PATRICK
      I SERVED 20 YRS ARMY, JUST SO YOU CAN VOICE YOUR THOUGHTS, WELL AS THE SAYING IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE PRESSURE GET OUT AWAY FROM THE PUMP, OR CAN'T STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN. YOU JUST SAID YOU QUITE AFTER 5 YEARS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW A DAYS, GETTING SSI
      JAMES
      USA
      RETIRED

    • Patrick you are a dip shit. I'll bet your NCO's sure got tired of listening to you whine. It was a very good day for the Marines when you left. For those that forfeited their lives in combat there was no "dole" just ask their wives and children. As for the rest of us that dedicated our youth and health to the military, I assure you it was rightfully earned and not a handout. Again, you suck and I'm glad you're gone

    • Being a 21 year vet, I have to say that you have no idea what you are talking about. It is my opinion and also many others that after only 5 years of service, although comendable, hardly entitles you to a opinion on the subject being as the opinion is so obviously uneducated.

    • stop complaining little freakin' cry baby….your @$$ got out cause you could not handle it…Now you regret the fact that you won't be collecting a pension you freakin' idiot….So now you decide to bitch and complain….Like "A soldier" said: Fancy Pants Marine…More like a damn Pansy Pants Marine….

    • I am curious if Patrick has ever deployed to a combat zone.And do you have a family? I understand that the infantry is not for everyone, but dont knock the people who can hang. Im not trying to degrade what you have done with your time in the Corps, but I see no way that you can be a retired Marine and find this acceptable. And if you didnt retire, then I hope you never have issues with your retirement from whatever it is you are doing now, because your ass is gonna be eating your words. And in this economy, everyone has problems!

    • I understand that many retirees did not serve this country in harms way. But to say that members that sat behind the desk is less valued then I feel you are being very selfish. I serve my coutnry for 20 years and in those years I had to work some 16 hours day and I had to go out in the field for 30 days away from my family and yes I had to get on the ground and crawl with a m16 and a flakk vest on and practice lifting my fallen on injuried brother onto a strtetcher and get them to a safe location. See I my peace time postion maybe sitting at a desk but my waretime skill set I am just like you and any other person then the only different is that I work in Air Tranportable Hospital in the field trying to get the injuired out of the field and to a hospital and then coordiate their Air Evac to the states or another hospital these are your desk sitters handling all of that. I think each and every person that serves their country is needed. Yes my brothers and sisters that place their lives in harms way every day s is deservering more than what they get . I

    • You got out because you couldn't deal. Make excuses if you want but you're fooling no one but yourself! Where do you work now! Walmart! No dole there.

    • US Army SFC (Ret) says:

      Hey Patrick, five years? Really? That's it? You can't speak on anyone that served 10-20 years in any branch of service, you don't have a clue buddy.

    • Pat,

      You would like you have some real issues. Relax and enjoy life, one has doubts with your comments that you are really enjoying anything. Lose the baggage and attitude. Life is good, grumpy old me are bad!!!!!!!!!! don't get mad or comment just understand and recognize.

    • tommy white says:

      you could not hack it is what you didnot say.glad you got out now no one will depend on you

    • Career Soldier says:

      Patrick, name calling aside and your 'reasons' for leaving, career military members face MANY hardships beyond the personal 'harm' you downplay. Beyond involuntarily (unlike civilians who may have upward mobility gains foremost) being dragged all over the world at very short notice, the monetary strains are enormous. Loss of pro perty equity, zero spousal career stability, emotional strain

      • Career Soldier says:

        Got cut off – missing family events difficult educational continuity for family and self, etc. When you consider all the monetary and emotional costs associated with a military career, it's a wonder why we do it. And that doesn't even begin to cover the other costs such as the PTSDor other physical/psychological costs for those who do go in harms way. I tell you why, it's the call to serve something bigger than just self. So the monetary and non-pay compensations are justified to ensure a high quality 'volunteer' workforce.

    • As a retired Navy Chief, I would say you have a point Patrick. As a product of the post-Vietnam voluntary military, we never got much respect from the civilian community, but we never dodged any bullets either.

      One thing I've noticed since the Gulf War, is how all veterans are treated like they've served in combat. The boots on the ground over there deserve respect, but many of us that served in the interim between Vietnam and the Gulf War, were essentially uniformed civil servants. Never the less, the pension and other bennies were part of the deal, and I'll take 'em.

    • MOBIGARRET says:

      YOU GOT OUT BECAUSE YOU WANTED TOO, WE SERVED FOR TWENTY OR THIRTY BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SERVE.

    • Probabaly a Section 8 discharge. Got out and joined the hippe crap from the Debt commission panel

    • USN ret and Proud says:

      Patrick you suck. I served for 20 years with not much more to show for it than a bad back, screws and staples in my shoulder and a screwed up knee. I didn't do it for the money, I didn't do for the glory, I did it because there are pansy a$$ quiters like you who don't have the moral courage and intestinal fortitude to serve my country.

    • SFC Retired says:

      So shut the fuck up 5 and out. Talk for yourself. You must have being 5 years in the ac and whining for when was going to be your ETS to get out FDA type or you don't know what that mean. If you did not put in 20+ you don't have the right to an opinion, looser. I bet you must being doing the same thing you did in the military, NOTHING…….go back to the same hole you crawl from and stay there. Do you have a limb missing or do you have to push a wheel chair for the rest of your life defending this country? How about we cut a leg of your body in name of the defense of the USA, how would you feel or shoot you in between the middle of you eyes and bury you in no man's land. That's what you consider whining. One thing you did not learn in the military 5 and out contract was respect, loyalty and honor protect and have the 6 of your buddy. Maybe this sounds like German to you I forgot you don't know how to spell Germany or where is located, you my find it in the Caribbean dummy. You had to be one of those in subordinated looser complaining why you was a failure and always a FFI oh you don't know what that mean either, FYI FAIL TO FOLLOW INSTRUCTION and FYI, FOR YOUR INFORMATION Patrick the dumming. You just pick a fight you can attend to win you idiot. Most likely you still a failure so stay the f***k away from us the real heros, punk! You don't belong to the TEAM or any team you individualist shovanist jackass. By the way Pat-trick, I have 2 tours in Iraq, most of the conflict from 1982 to 2006, two houses investing wisely my pay during my career and 3 degree from the University, working 100% disable on my 4th. The only degree you can read is maybe the temperature or not. Do you know how to change degree or is it something that is read in Celcius or Farenheit, so don't treat us as dumming or ignorants STUPID!!!! How about we take some of your pay away from you worthless 5 year contract that you stole from the military. You should have stayed a boy scout no offense intented to the boy scout because you are wort more than this MORRON!

    • Patrick,

      It seems to me you are a disgrace to the uniform. Marine, Army or what ever. If you truly were a marine for 5 years you wouldn't say that. You probably a chapter case or dishonerably discharged from the service. No soldier or marine would ever disrespect fellow service members like that.

  19. robert thompson says:

    I served three years on active duty with two of yhe best divisions in the army(25th Inf div and 82nd Airborne ) After discharge I joined the 45th Inf Div of the Oklahoma National guard for the remainder of the time until I was 60(38yrs, 8 mo and 19 days). I gave up many weekends, annual leave and other time to accumulate approx 14 years of active duty. Now the yahoos in Washington say I don't deserve retirement? We need to band togerther and expell the rest of them in 2012. By the way, I helped train many units to prepare for Desert Storm, Iraq and present deployments. I shot and coached with the All-National Guard Rifle Team and helped train many snipers, both military and civilian. Ask how to get more for my retirement. CSM Ret, RT

    • Rob, you get your retirement. I support all service members who sacrificed multiple tours overseas, much of it in combat or the threat of combat. However, for the guys and gals who lived stateside doing the same work as rn equivalent GS, why should should they get the same retirement as the former service member. For the service member who has battle scars, ie permanent injurys, limb loss, agent orange exposure issues, mental issues from repeated combat tours with frontline units resulting in disabling mental conditions (or after even one tour) should they have access to retirement or disability payments? Some do have access, but others don't and it's very irregular and confusing how these things are determined, but one thing for sure, its not consistent applied regarding these and other determining factors.

      • robert thompson says:

        I don't get the same benefits as a former service member. I accumulated about 14 years of active duty time in the 42 years, therefore I get 14/20 of regular retirement pay compared to an active duty retirement after his 20 years. Don't misunderstand, I appreciate my benefits; I am just saying that the military benefitted from my service and that the retirement should not be downgraded.

    • AS Navy CPO with 24+ years of mostly reserve time with 2 deployments(payed accordingly), I will get retirement at age 60. The equivalent CPO on AD with my Marine Command got tax free pay for one deployment (as did I) but got his retirement at age 38, and currently has the immediate advantage of a well payed federal GS Job. Since jobs are hard to find, I would support having a choice to draw retirement and stay off the job market or work and delay military retirement checks until you decide to quit working. The retirement would kick in any time the working ex service member is unemployed As it is, he is drawing both pay and retirement. He may also be getting some disability added on for sports injuries(voluntary recreation) while on active duty. I am a retired school teacher of 28 years, but cannot make more than 27 K on another job or I lose my teacher retirement at any age until I stop working. Its an either or policy. I choose to live in my means and let others have the work, but am still able and will return to work when the job market improves. For now, someone else needs the money.

    • Mike in Idaho says:

      Thanks for your service and your comments, Robert; your experience and viewpoint are much like many of us.

    • Wow Rob. It sound like you held a job like the rest of the entire country, you didn't see combat and you were paid a salary that is competitive with any you would have found in the civilian world. How do you come off with such a sense of entitlement. Further, no one is trying to take your benefits. All of these debates surround future entitlements. Our country has too much debt, we need to cut spending everywhere.

    • Robert, Thank you for your service. In my USAR unit, due to our OPTEMPO, it wasn't unusual for our guys to take in the shorts in civilian employment (promotions, layoffs, etc.). In fact I was excluded from a job due to my USAR commission… I never complained, It would have just been adverse to work there…

    • I agree, including the folks in the white house! I saw Pete D. on the news the other day. He forgot what they were talking about! You know we're in good hands!

    • Robert they are not talking about touching your pay. It's the new recruits thay they are targeting. As you know in the last 30 years they have changed the retirement system three times and untold times they talked about deeper cuts. Thank you for your service.

  20. Patrick – U got out because you couldn't hack it….you sound like a A Fancy Pants Marine

    • A. Richmond Jr says:

      Patric probably was not allowed to reinlist, the Marine Corps has a fairly tough reinlistment policy. By the way, what is a "Fancy Pants Marine"?

      A. RICHMOND JR.
      MGYSGT USMC (Retired)

      • I Wouldn't Give A Bean
        To Be A Fancy Pants Marine,
        I'd rather Be A Dogface Soldier Like I Am.
        I Wouldn't Trade My Old O.D.'s
        For All The Navy's Dungarees
        For I'm The Walking Pride Of Uncle Sam;
        On All The Posters That I Read It Says
        The Army Builds Men
        So They're Tearing Me Down To Build Me Over Again
        I'm Just A Dogface Soldier
        With A Rifle On My Shoulder
        And I'll Go Casablanca to Bombay.
        So Feed Me Ammunition,
        Keep Me In The Third Division,
        Your Dogfaced Soldiers A-Okay. – 3RD Infantry Division

        Fancy Pants
        A Short History Of The Uniform Of The Marines
        By Col. Robert H. Rankin

        Oh…and yes…as intended…this is an insult (Patrick)

    • A Marine (until I pass Away)__I spent 30 years in military 4 years as A Japanese P0W with Solders who I would call Brothers in Arms.Are you
      one or a canteen Solder.

    • Thompson and friends says:

      Interesting? Sounds like here the "good ol boys club" picking on the someone who just spoke what was the truth! Sure, some do work hard, usually pass the buck from higher up, right? Cmon Robert Thompson, how hard did you really work? It can be high pressure at times, but you have a job, a respectable one, no matter what, you don't get fired. And by the way, I retired at 60, Air Force.

    • That's it! Now he's not on the dole like the rest of us. He's waiting for Walmart to give him a retirement! Free Air Conditioning when you shop there!

  21. SOUNDS LIKE PATRICK GOT OUT WITH A "GUNNYS" FOOT UP HIS ASS!

    • Funny how you guys like to say I got kicked out or whatever, but all of you lifers know that ain't the case. Hundreds of us guys that served honorably get out every day, and you lifers try to trivialize it since we got on with our lives.

      • Aussie veteran says:

        Patrick you are very lucky you did not serve in my Army, with a mouth like yours you would not last 5 minutes, all I can suggest is to take your medication or if you are not on it I recommend you get to a psychiatrist quick smart to control your insane outbursts. All the members of the US Forces I served with deserve far more then they currently receive in pensions. Can you or anyone put a price on someone prepared to GIVE THEIR LIFE for FREEDOM ? Stop upsetting all the good people, they do not deserve your malicious remarks, and as far as the non combatants, they are the ones that keep us combatants fighting the enemy, without them I would not be writing this reply today, It is time to wake up BOY and act in a RESPONSIBLE and CARING manner to all that have served !

    • Medic 101st RVN says:

      It makes no difference why Patrick got out. He made the decision to get out and now must live with it.
      I did my 20 years and heard for many of them how we stayed because we could not make it as a civ. I found out how easy life was as a civilion and questioned why I stayed so long. I do not regret my time and would not change a thing. Life is good and I enjoy it every day with my retirement check. Thank you America!!

  22. Well, most of them have been to the "Combat Zones" for photo ops in a more secure zone than the "White House" and return to say "I know how it is!" Well this is living proof that "Our Elected Officials" are clueless! Pretty soon they will suggest that we service 'til 55 years old like some of our Allies. Then we can call the Military, just another branch of "Civil Service", create a "MS" (military schedule) pay scale to go with GS, WG and SES. Then, we won't live long enough to collect anything!!!!

    • Hey, I have an idea. Let's cut out the current retirement plan that is in-place for our elected congress/senate. They receive full pay as retirement compensation for the remainder of their lives.

    • Ken Huckabee says:

      Do you suppose that if the get the "MS Branch" enacted, the active duty troops would get the same paid holidays, time off for "conferences" and how about a union that would let them strike if someone pissed them off??
      Ken Huckabee, CPO, USN, RET (Since 1974)

    • Jack Fichtner says:

      You could win a congressional seat with ideas like that. With paper shuffling like that Congress could afford another pay increase.

  23. I hate to say this, (since I voted for the man)but ever since he has come into office
    he has been after the Military, Veterans, and Seniors. For example the last 2 years there has not been a COLA, They say we can buy the same things this year as we did last year for the same price. What planet are they living on? I am sure he already realizes there will not be a second term for him! I really like the man, but he has lost my vote Leave the people who defend you and have defended you alone. The people who have fought and continue to fight
    to give you your freedom and rights.

    • Dusty - USN says:

      I hate to say this, (since I voted for the man)but ever since he has come into office he has been after the Military, Veterans, and Seniors.

      Why?? When it is so blatant……………………

    • Tim, u are upset with the wrong man. He is still trying to get the retirees and seniors money. U need to read more on this president!

      • Yeah, it isn't the President who wants to cut spending-remeber the Tea party and Repubicans say he is spending too much and that's why we are in so much debt. It is a BIPARTISAN comission (Both Democrats and Republicans making reccomendations to the President) The Republicans have stated that they will shut the country down and slim the federal work force to get the budget under control. So we need to be well informed on all sides before making judgements. We, all of us on this forum need to write our Congressmen and let them know that they also need to take a pay cut, lose their health insurance, and have their underware searched by the TSA and THEN maybe they will understand our point of view.

        • Thank you Sonya, so many people are blaming the President without even thinking. If anyone wants to blame someone blame the Tea Party and their fanatics!! This was a bipartisan commission, so what is it that some people do not understand?? They voted for this Tea Party in the last election, now it is time for everyone to pay for their blind choices.

          • Am I the only one that took a $9 net pay cut on the 2009 COLA?

          • LCDR_Ret'd says:

            The ENTIRE Governmnet needs to be cut. Don't blame the Tea Party for wasteful spending of the past 30 years. All our Congress has done is kick the can down the road. Well, it's time to pay the piper, or are we going to be like Greece? I don't want my retirement cut either. My guess is for political reasons they would grandfather current members, and it would start with new recruits.

            And as far as this President is concerned, his disdain for this country is evident in everything he does. His own wife said she was ashamed of our country.

            ALL politicians are to blame for this mess. The ones that spend too much and the ones that don't have the cajones to stop the others.

          • Jack the Ripper says:

            Wrong information: about this President and this Congress about the veterans.. If you will check the laws passed during the last two years for the veterans…you will find this President and Congress has done more for the veteran than any administration in modern history.. Don't take my word for it : Code of Federal Regulations spells all of this out. I am tired of people slamming and ranting about general issues that affect so many that have served.. Get your facts together and theN post you FACT OPINION.. NOT JUST OPINIONS, THEY REALLY DON'T COUNT.

          • What HAS he done — explain?

          • Sound like you've been listening to Limbaugh and his ilk far too much. I have no seen or heard any disdain for this country by the President or Mrs. Obama. If you think we, and by we I mean the policies and procedures this country has acted under, have always been upstanding and honorable you'd be wrong. Just take a look in any history book….from our treatment of Native Americans, the Tuskegee experiments, how black servicemembers were treated after serving in WW2, how proud those who bombed the black church killing little children were and how long it took for justice to be served, how we disposed of the existing government in Iran and put in our puppet, the Shah…we are still suffering consequences for that one. Get your head out of the sand. Yes, this country has been blessed but it is far from the grand experiment we started out to be…and not in a good way. What you hear from the President is not disdain, just the truth, when you've spent so much time trying to ignore it.

          • Idmtmedic says:

            Speaking of truth, seen the news lately? Benghazi? IRS? Attorney General investigation journalists? WH fighting to CUT MILITARY BENEFITS? Obama taking a vacation for how much money again? Really, how much money? No tours at the white house? Lmao

          • What kind of blabbering people get on this forum??? Right away, blame the Tea Party. 1st of all, this panel was commissioned long before the "Tea Party" was voted in. 2nd, the Tea Party only captured a fraction of the seats. 3rd, this commission was co-chaired by both a Democrat and a Republican (didn't see anything about a Tea Party chair). All 3 party factions have their fanatics, just as this forum does. This country needs fiscal resonsibility, along with political and moral responsibility. Cutting the benefits for those of us who have served, are serving, and will continue to serve is not the answer, but neither is this foolish blaming of elected members of Congress who have not yet had the chance to try to lead this country, regardless of political affiliation. God help us all. BTW, I have served for 38 1/2 years, both active duty during the Vietnam war, and in the Air Guard, and have served numerous deployments since 2001, and I am retiring as an E-9, so I think I have some voice in this also.

          • What does rank have to do with it, many of us have the same amount of time and rank as you, and all have just as much at stake. When people are mad they make mistakes and the last election was a good example of misinformed people being swayed by a bunch of fanatical showmen who are looking for ratings and nothing more, who cares about the country as long as they can invoke hatred and get their ratings..

          • mlitary mama says:

            not true, there are very few of us who have served 38 years. Military members by in large are conservative in values, This has been the case for thousands of years. Read Plato's Republic. It will not change due to a few who have been hood-winked by some academic.

          • 25 year vet says:

            I know plenty that have 30+ years including myself, as for rank, yes I too am a E-9 so does that make me special?? No it does not, time to wake up smell the coffee. I believe in a strong military, just like most everyone I know in the military, but does that make us a conservative?? No, do not mix up your assumptions that everyone in the military has the same religious beliefs as you!! As for Platos Republic, read it years ago, I would believe in history it was superseeded by the theory that a small hardcore minority can control the majority of a country, examples such as the Nazi's, Italy's Facists, the Communist party and other two bit tyrants running around in the third world countries. So if you want to quote anciet history you might want to update those theories a little bit before you speak.

          • Very will said sarge.

          • You are a fool to think the TEA party had anything to do with how screwed up this country is. The Republican RINOs, Democrats and this President is responsible for what is happening to the Military and all the benefits being lost. Will or can the TEA party fix it? No! The reality of the situation is that the best we can hope for until the 2012 election is to stop all this crap from getting passed and out of DC. In case you haven't noticed your democratic House of Representatives, Democratic Senate, and Democratic President Don't give a rats behind what you think. You can write all the letters you want and they still ignore you. Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barb Boxer, Barrack Obama, Chuck Shumer, Charlie Rangle, Barney Frank are no friends of the military but they all got re-elected (except Obama). Maybe, just maybe it is the people of the United States and not the politicians that are the problem. Just ask any Congressperson or the President! They'll tell ya. Get your head out of the sand and wake up.

          • A Bi-Partisan panel that the President "Hand Picked". He knew who he was picking and what they would propose before making his selections. This was not Bi-Partisan with members picked by their party's representatives. Let me pick a "Bi-Partisan" panel and I can get the results I want as well.

          • How long has this commisson been looking at ways to cut pay.The tea party members dont take office until Jan.

      • And you are basing this on what????

    • Tim…I believe it's his advisors that are doing this as well as others in DC who could give a shit less about anyone except themselves! I don't reacall Obama ever saying he wants to cut our pay or reduce the military strength. Most of the indivisuals on these "Task Force Panels" have no military experience nor…does their children. They're too afraid of being hurt! They just know and studied how to cut budgets….nothing else!

      • jack the ripper says:

        I might add the Congress people get after 1 term: in perks, benefits, ect.. 16,000 dollars a month for life.. So, complaining about me and you taking from the federal govenment taxpayers is null and void. And, too, we should not be fighting one another in our conversations, we should be raising cain at those who created the problems in the first place… who are the POLITICIANS.. You and I had not one thing to do with the country being in the mess it is in.. the only outlet because of the way the federal government is now structured is to COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN TO ONE ANOTHER.. What we need is to keep our cell phones busy defending our right, not complaining. So, call your congress man or woman, Senators at least once a day like I do and it could make a difference..

        • Jack,

          Where do you get this information from? "…the Congress people get after 1 term: in perks, benefits, ect.. 16,000 dollars a month for life." Last I checked, they pay into a retirement system AND Social Security, just like the rest of the working stiffs (with the exception of those of us in the military who do not pay cash, just blood, into a retirement system.) As fo your comment, "You and I had not one thing to do with the country being in the mess it is in.. " have you every heard the words, "We, the people…"

          To quote an old time comic strip, Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

          WE elect incompetent, self serving career politicians, and then are surprised at that incompetence and self serving attitude?

    • Cw2 Smith Ret. says:

      Learn from your mistakes! His election was a bad mistake!

    • well, hate to say it… maybe you shouldnt have voted for the guy. Next time vote against him.
      this is nothing new. At the end of the day, there is only so much money.

    • There is not a single thing to like about this man. I didn't vote for him and never will, and to set the record straight, it has absolutely nothing to do with his being half black. He is the worst to ever hold the office of Commander In Chief and has an agenda to destroy this country and everything it stands for. If you don't see that, then your blind. Furthermore, more documents are being found to prove that he is not even a citizen of this country. If we wanted to get a black president, we missed the boat by not encouraging Colin Powell to seek the office, he would have been a much better choice, at least he's a True American and a Vet.

      • What are you basing any of your comments on? TV? News that only reports the bad because the people don't want to hear the good when the bad is so much more interesting. I am sure you could have taken care of all the US problems in just two years. Don't forget, you don't make the decisions as President, Congress does.

    • Crew Chief says:

      Tim,
      If you check your facts, in 2003, the same year that Pres Bush (Republican) declared war in Iraq….they severely cut VA medical benefits. But you probably didn't know that because it didn't get a fanfare because of the war. But I find it interesting that the same year Bush declared war he also cut medical benefits for veterans.
      Here is the thing, the American Public wants it ALL But they don't want to pay for it.
      I for one say cut defense contractors,….that alone would save a ton of money. But of course all the politicians friends and stock is in defense contractor companies…….Does Halliburton ring a bell? (Dick Cheney)

      • Great points, Crew Chief – great post.
        What the government pays out in contracting costs is phenomenal. Anyone who's been in the military particularly since 2001, knows the kind of money that gets thrown around over in the sandbox. You would think that would be about the first thing this panel would go after to cut costs, but that would be hitting the politicians – on both sides – and their "friends", right where they live. They'll do anything to preserve that system, as well as their outrageous salaries and pensions.

    • Tim I must disagree with you about the president, he is not against the military, he is for the military and our family. I am a (25) years veteran serve in Vietnam and Gulf War. What have the president done to make you think He is out to harm the military and senior citizens, you haven't seen anything yet wait until next January, you really going to see who want to harm the seniors of this country.

    • PLEASE, PLEASE before you blame the President after 2yrs
      in office. LEARN what the Office of the President actually does.
      HE can NOT do much with the Military Without the approval of Both
      the Senate and Congress. HE (President Obama) did Not put forth
      a New Health care plan. That plan had been in the works for the last
      12-14 years with Sen Ted Kennedy. It finally got passed

    • Just how much power do you think the president has? He has the power to veto. Everything must be approved by Congress. Everything that happens is not necessarily initiated by the President. I am in the military and would hate to have to wait until 60 to get my retirement, especially since I am at 19 years, but placing the blame on one person makes no sense..

    • Tim, under GWB no COLA and active duty pay raise lowest under any President. If GWB had his way there would not have been a pay raise for active duty and Civil Service employees. Don't forget to remember.

      • Both COLA and pay raises are set by law, and have been since the 70's/80's (COLA/pay raises). Congress has normally overridden the pay-raise (0.5% less than the wage increase) to match the overall wage increase, but the basic rate is set by law.

    • Tim M E-9 USMC says:

      I have a question Tim. How can anyone who has ever served in the military vote for a democrat? The military has always been the target of the democratic party. They are angry now because we are caught in two wars and they can't figure out how to gracefully get us out so they can rape the military budget. How's that hope and change doin'?

    • It is not the president who decides the budget or the COLA, it is congress. Hold the right people accountable. Don't forget to look at what Secretary Gates is saying. After all he makes the recommedations to congress. I agree, the folks making the decisions never spent a day deprived from their family on an OCONUS tour. We need to speak out in no uncertain terms that we sacrificed and earned our retirement. Can we say that about the big 435 on capital hill. Maybe they should fix their retirement first and use the same criteria they want to apply to us. Do 20 years or you get nothing.

    • Dude! Obama is a Democrat. ALL the DEMS go after the military. They are generally anti-military. Look at the major damage Clinton did when he was president. He shut down alot of military bases. Now, Obama wants to freeze pay and bennies for three years AND reform the retirement system. What's next?! There will be more….just wait!!

      • Excuse me look at your history books Dick Cheney closed the majority of the bases as Secretary of Defense. If I remember correctly he is a Republican and a Republican Ex-Vice President who as Secretary of Defense served under a REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT!!

    • There is a formula for computing COLA. It's not a majic number somebody comes up with in a back room. It's been in effect since the early 70's. I too am retired military. As for our current pres. I back him 100%. Tell me what any republican has done for the middle class? Not a flippin thing!!

    • Tim you need to get your head out of your four point of contact! Now you blaming the president for this too… Think about it since he have lost your vote means that you vote for reps and T party candidates so why are you worrying about this, the man leading this committee is a republican plus the are dominating the house which are the first ones that will have to pass this bill… So if it pass I wonder who are you going to blame? You'll probably blame the president again anyway. But go ahead and keep voting base on what you all hear in the news and everyone around instead of taking the time to study and read about what each candidates stand for and what bills or ideas they will support…

    • If this goes into effect who draws this 10 year retirement (ie Vietnam Era vets who had atleast 10 years b4 getting out but didn't due 20) or what????
      It's got to be one way or the other, all or nothing at all.
      If u can remember the Graham-Rudman Act it was a mess..sign when it came to the military.
      I served 14 years and was medically discharge in 1986, so therefore, if this is passed will it or will it not affect me. Uncle Sam can't have it both ways.

    • FOX news has reported that the way the USG figures COLA in these cases (for military retirees and Social Security recipients), is to NOT count the cost of food and fuel! Doesn't that sound like a GENIUS plan?!?

      • then Fox News lied. The reason no COLA for the last 2 years is because CPI-W on 30 Sep had not exceeded the rate it was on 30 Sep 2008. Why was it high on that date? Because of the gas prices – which topped out that month.

        COLA is set by a formula mandated by law in the mid-70's. No President or Congress since then has had ANYTHING to do with it.

    • Tim-please remember the law passed by Congress many years ago regarding COLA has nothing to do with the President. COLA and SS increases are based on cost of living calculations done by the Department of Commerce and are calculated based on surveys of specific items done by paid professionals all throughout the year. I agree there are some things like fuel cost more than a few years ago, but other stuff like home prices and interest rates are much lower and may offset those higher cost items. It seems we all want and/or "need" more money but most everyone also agrees the government spends too much more than it takes in– and that is a BIG problem. There seem to be few good solutions and few of us will be happy with everything that is put out on the table. Rather than having "knee-jerk" reactions to concepts that are put forward, we might be better served by looking at the details and how they may affect us individually and as a nation as a whole. As it stand s right now, as I recall, the federal govt spends 42% of everything dollar it takes in on debt interest, then there are the many "entitlement" programs that eat up another large percentage. That leaves very few areas where Congress and the President have much in the way of discretion regarding spending cuts. The goal of the "Blue Ribbon BI-Partisan Panel" was/is to delve into all these and identify where and how spending may be brought back under control. Obviously not everything they present will fly and the "devil will be in the details".

    • COLA's have nothing to do with who is President. It is based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    • I totally agree Tim, COLA never did keep up with inflation, however, it did help, now food and gas price' s are at a all time high,. I feel I'm a puppet,
      the Goverment can pull my string anytime. Our Goverment cannot balance
      a budget, and expect us to,. They better quit messing with the Military, one day will wake up and find we have No Military, .. Guess our only difference
      is I didn't vote for this President..

    • 30 yr military wife says:

      I was willing to give him a chance, but you are correct he does not have a clue what it is like to be in the military or family of a military member. What sacrifices has he made in his life? I say let him serve even a month with those brave soldiers and iraq (and see how long his security last out there) and then he can say he would like to renig on the promise that this country gave to all of our brave members in the military.

    • http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/06/mili

      Too many on this blog are complaining about things they know little facts about. This process has been going on for years. In the end they will more than likely grandfather everyone in that's currently serving or has already retired as they should. I have always thought that paying someone immediately after 20 years was an unsustainable idea. I have placed my life in harms way in both current wars and understood the consequences every time I raised my hand for reenlistment. Something will be done and it probably should.

    • I agree with what you say, but allow me to add my two cents. We have 535 members in the congress and senate. It is they who make the rules, not the president or VP. They reason that the politicians shit on us, is because we allow them to shit on us. IMHO…. If all of us that have contributed to this forum would send our comments to the website of those that are supposed to represent us it would get their attention. Semper Fidelis. Blackcoat.

    • u notice all of them get a cola each year, as well as a pay raise. REMFS

    • I am replying to everyone. Who remembers the draft? We we in the erof the draft and this whole military system was put in to help people make a career out of defending the nation, so as not to drag un willing people to fight for us. Now HE is taking the military apart. Aside from making promises and then breaking them and the immorality that brings, we have more problems. We will not have the number of people to even fight. When Pearl harbor hit we were not ready to just jump up and fight. There was training and factories making equipment etc. And lets see who has the guns and ammunitions now? And who is going overseas and being a total woose? We are either going to have to reinstate the draft or have other countries take over our decisions which is what he wants, I believe. Then he can be a happy socialist and we can all be broke.

  24. For those equating a military retirement with a civilian retirement… let's be sure that whoever reads this knows the difference…yes, we may get retirement pay the year we retire which can be at the age of 38,39 or 40BUT (and its a big BUT) most folks don't understand that our retirement after 20 years is 50% of BASE PAY only! For those who don't know why this is significant, let me explain. Base Pay is often times only half of the pay the military gets each month. The rest of the paycheck is conveniently comprised of entitlements that the government offers to active duty but do not get figured into retirement pay.

  25. continued: Since you don't state the timeframe, I presume it was many years ago. Today's Airmen, Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines are experiencing an operations tempo that has exceeded that of WWII. Yes, that is a fact and you can search it out! They are recurringly in harm's way and doing a damn fine job in kicking the hell out of the enemy so it doesn't bite in the ass here in the U.S. Just thought I'd bring you up to date since you haven't a clue as to what's really going on in theater. Whiners? You're the whiner and a damn sorry excuse for former Marine.

  26. J C Snodgrass, USN Retired says:

    Over the years since I first enlisted, everytime the government needed to cutback on the budget, the first two places they would go too were, Military Pay and SS. It hasn’t changed since then. The GI’s are still getting screwed and the ones of us who have served our time and worked in the real world and are now drawing SS, we still can’t support a family because of the fixed incomes that we have and the prices of things going up. Medical Care was supposed to be free if you did 20 or 30 years in the military. I have to pay annually and now they want to raise it or drop it and go to the new BO Health Care package.

    I feel that the Vet’s of this nation need to band together and vote the Congress and House out of Office, stop their retirement for life, take away their insurance, set new term lengths and get a new president who has served some time in the miltary as this one doesn’t know how to win a war or run one based on his new ROE’s he’s put out to the field.

    • G. Rook USN Retired says:

      I agree with J. C. Snodgrass. I have been retired from the Navy since 1992. I'm tired of the people in Washington messing with our retirement benefits. I was promised free medical for live too. Only people who have served in the military should be allowed to make decisions about our retirement benefits. They would give us better benefits not less benefits. These panels need to find a better way to balance the budget.

      1. Do away with Obamacare.
      2. Do away with Earmarks
      3. No foreign to countries that are our enemies
      4. Stop giving money to the IMF…our country doesn't have the money to loan anymore
      5. Cut Congress's salaries in half

  27. I say lets putting this on the voting ballot, and stop all senators from receiving free dental care once they are out of office.
    President Clinton and his staff did not mind signing the documents for the miltiary retirees from receiving free medical care, but yet they did not sign a document for them to stop receiving free medical and dental care when they retire from the senate or get voted out of office.

    Lets put this on the next ballot and see how much money we can save the United States Government..

    God Bless the Ladies and Men that Serve or have Served In The United States Armed Forces..

    • Don't forget that after serving only one term as a US Senator they get retirment pay as well!! How about we start with the pay in Congress and the Senate! Nancy Pelosi can Fly coach or in the back of a Tanker leg to leg arm to arm for an 18 hour trip home. I AM A DISABLED VET the first year out I was told I couldn't get care at the VA. I now know that was untrue, but call the VA 800 number and ask a simple question, do this three times in a row, you will get a different answer every time!

  28. Everyone is reading too much into this. They are going to give servicemembers the option of vesting at 10 yrs, meaning you will earn the retirement no one can take away from you at 10 years if you choose to leave military service at that time. It does not say you cannot do 20 years and not receive military pay immediately after 20 yrs of military service. How many of you would have loved to walk away after 10 years knowing that you will have something later on in life…oh yeah, I did exactly that, but I continue to serve in the military in the Reserves and I will get something at age 60…God willing. Stop biting the hand that feeds you and be grateful that the govt will take care of you at the end of your honorable career. Your sacrifices are appreciated, you chose to serve, suck it up!

    • are you retarded…? maybe you yould read more into this… it sais that if you walk away after serving 20 yrs then you start getting paid at 57

    • Re-read your own words carefully – "no one can take away from you, something later on in life" – so I'm perfectly safe with my existing retirement going on 5-plus years after 21 and change, even though I'm a ways away from 60, right? Let's not forget the non-financial factors that come into play, like how much time we gave our country over our families to earn what we get – those of us fortunate enough to live long enough to see it – and when you come up with a real way to compensate for the birthdays, holidays, anniversaries missed, along with restoring broken families occurring all too often from doing one's patriotic duty, THEN come talk to me about deferring active-duty retirement plans. As a reservist, that's all up front, but don't penalize the 24/7/365 troops for government's inability and/or reluctance to balance budgets – let alone kill the primary incentive for sustaining an all-volunteer force. Match that scenario against the current economic state and maybe, just maybe, it's not such a good idea after all.

  29. Karen, USMC-Ret says:

    Anyone who thought the Republicans were the good guys, think again,. They want to privatize the VA system, Medicare, and Social Security so that your money will be invested in the Stock Market. If the Stock Market goes South, there goes your retirement money. Now they are going after Military pay and Tricare. There is nothing they won't do to screw over the regular person so that their damn rich friends and corporations have all the money. When will people wise up. You can only hope that the Democratic Senate stops this, but don't hold your breath. They have turned out to be a bunch of wooses. They gave all the time. I am retired and sick of this crap. Obama- please stand up for the military and vets.

    • Here, here Karen!

    • KMF-USN-79-08 says:

      Democrats and Obama look out for the military??? What a ridiculous claim. LOL
      The military had its biggest pay raises under Reagan and the most increases in Quality of Life "QOL" incentives under G W Bush. BTW the one thing that impacts a service member the most is base pay because it directly affects final computation for reitrement pay.
      So please don't try that liberal propaganda here, it just doesn't wash.

      • it was the Democratic Congress… the Democrats at least (seemingly)understand the "human side" of SERVICE… the Republicans see privatization as MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS and (more importantly?) their Campaign coffers… they would put-source the military if they could make a buck – but not to worry… the benefits will "trickle-down" to us lowly veterans. Dick Cheney raised the bar for all Republican congress members and left quite a legaacy!

    • Obama for the military??? What planet are you from??

    • I doubt that you are retired otherwise you would realize who supports the military and who doesn't!! I guess you don't remeber all the Democrats accusing the Marines of being baby killers in 2005 or Harry Reid saying the war has been lost! The Democrats are not in favor of the military, but would love to have a civilian Army oh wait that would be the TSA and The Department of Homeland security. Trust no Politican, especially the dirty Dems!

  30. These lousy bums in Wash D.C. should visit Arlington National Cemetery
    on a cold, wet, rainy day (Veterans Day 2009) like I did to pay my respects to our fallen soldiens/airmen/marines and naval personnelo and with the other guys/gals buried there that had a long career in the military and tell them your going to screw them out of their
    retirement pay. Chief Alves (retired USAF).

  31. aicraggil 39 says:

    aicraggil 39
    I have no coment on most I read, and I see a lot of anger, as I feel.
    but two comments stand out to me 1. Matt, you just are blind to the untold story. yes you can retire at 10 years and start your career, what they don't
    tell you is that reather then train a new soldier if a possibility of war comes.
    DOD will recall you into active duty, you are already trained. there goes your career.

    • If you think it through, it's sorta genious thinking. They can save so much money, but also have the troops in case of a large war. Sadly with the economic state of affairs this may be the best scenario for the country and the career vets. The guys inbetween may be the ones that realy end up sacrificing the most.

  32. Matt is right. If you know what you signed up for, then being recalled should not be an issue

  33. Well the panel is headed by a Republican……hmmm maybe the Congressman and Senators should overhaul their retirement plan before touching the military retirement…but its probably the Democrats to blame.

    Neither political party has the right answers!!!!!!!

  34. Way to go Steve, you tell them, Patrick, you are an IDIOT and a sorry excuse for a Marine.You should be ashamed to even call yourself a Marine..As for the retirement pay after 20 years of dedicated service, its pretty much crap, barely pays your mortgage..the same goes for survivors benefits…Who are we kidding here, you would have to be a General to be receiving a good retirement….As for you Patrick; unless you lost your loved one in the military, shut the hell up!!!!

    • We can be proud of our service to protect, preserve and defend alongside our husbands and all they gave. As if a "groundskeeper," it saddens me to see how little respect there is for all of us who gave our all and the active duty and families today in harm's way as were our husbands. One wonders how Patrick was ever allowed in!!

  35. OK, WE WANT TO KNOW THE NAMES. DON'T CALL AN E$$HOLE DISCHARGING THIS SHIT THE PANEL. WHO ARE THESE PANELISTS AND WHAT ARE THEIR NAMES?
    1) ?
    2) ?
    3) ?
    ….?

  36. FRED FREDERICKS says:

    FRED FREDERICKS RETIRED
    oNE OF THE FIRST PLACES GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO LOOK IS THEIR EVER GROWING SALARIES AND BENEFITS THAT ALLOW THEM TO RETIRE AND COLLECT THEIR PENSIONS AFTER SIX YEARS OF SERVICE.. CHECK OUT OUT WHAT CONGRESS WAS ORIGINALLY TO RECEIVE AND HOW IT WAS RECEIVED. WHEN THEY GO AFTER THE MILITARY, I SUGGEST THEY LOOK AHEAD A FEW YEARS, OH YES…I FORGOT. THIS PRESIDENT WANTS TO DESTROY OUR FIGHTING FORCES…THIS WILL DO IT!!!

  37. SGT Sparrow says:

    I'm 50% retired out of the army in 2009 OIF/OEF Vet . I Don't get retirement payment because my va benifits are at 100% totaly disabled unemployable. So i find it very hard to believe anything they have to say about redoing or changing nothing ever helps the young vets that get hurt.

  38. aicraggil 39 says:

    aicraggil 39
    numbern two is Patrick just above me here. I can't tell if he is real, or made up, by the writer. If he reallly excists, he never had the camaradery that happens in the military, the brotherhood that excists among all combat vets
    in every military in the world. He Calls it 20 years work, in the military it is 20 years of suffering pain and anguish cold heat and sleeping on the ground
    with all you clothing and gear on you not haveing rest nor sleep for days and in between fighting the enemy, and when not in war, always training for war.
    I retired after 24 and a half yearsdue to my injuries I sufferd and still worked
    for an other 20 years as a civilian in my UA Army just to be close to my brethern. I don't feel supirior to any body, but i am pissted

  39. I am now 84 years old, served 20 years in USMC in WW@ and Korea, Retired in 1963 and have TRICARE for LIFE and a small pension, (renember, 50% of base pay in 1963 does not compare with 50% of base pay today) If they take my TRICARE away and reduce my pension , I will lose my home and everything in it within 2 years!! As to present system of ‘deployments’ I agree it may be better in some ways ,but tends to lesson unit co-hesion. WW2 had many men going overseas in 1941 and not coming home until 1945!! Also ‘between wars’ was not all play, there were many actions in many places ,the public never heard about,I fif 2 years in China after WW2 and we ‘engaged’ the “BALU’ (Chinese Communists ). Hucks in the PHILIPINES etc. many times . Peace time was not always “peace” time.

  40. Karen, USMC, RET says:

    Oh please to people who think it will be wonderful to have retiremen after 10 years. Learn how to read!! You may be able to retire after 10 years, but you won’t see the money until you are 60.

    Give me a break, Earl. Have you ever looked at the proposals of Cong. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin. Look it up. He has a proposal for saving money and has had for years that guts the military community, Social Security, Medicare, Tricare–what they call the wasteful entitlements. I always thought the Republicans were more pro military, but that is bullcrap. They aren’t. They are just selfish bastards. And like I said the Democrats may say they think these programs should stay, but they are such wooses and will go along with the stupid Tea Party Republicans who don’t want a federal government of any kind.

    • Whatever they want- says:

      Really KAREN? The Tea Party republicans don't want a government of any kind? STOP WATCHING MSNBC and get up out of bed.
      I am a TEA PARTY independent (as are many of us). It is not that we do not want a federal government of any kind- it is that we do not want a CORRUPT federal government- which is what we have now. The government the way it is currently runs believes that YOU ARE TOO STUPID to run your own life. They need to wipe your nose, pull up your pants and get you on the short bus every morning. TEA PARTIERS- and I am sure I have met many more of them than you… want us to restore this country to the greatness it once had. That includes demanding personal responsibility- rather than Uncle Obama giving freeloaders 3 yrs of unemployment benefits…. Get out and take a job- whatever jiob, feed your own face, pay your own bills….

    • Whatever they want- says:

      Our consitution says you have the right to LIFE…. LIBERTY ( being pulled away by the gov't spending your money) and the PURSUIT of happiness… NOT the guarantee of happiness….

      I did my 20+ years, and about 4 1/2 months before 20 got my spine crushed…. after numerous hours of neuro-surgery and orthos surgery I was told I can never deploy again. I was told I was departing the military…. and at my 20 yr 11 month point they forced me out the door. SO BE IT! I went back to work at a job that pays about 1/3 what I got in my chosen (DEGREED) field…. I am paid a little more than 1/2 what I was paid as an enlisted man (when I got out)… BTW; the Hippies were the ones spitting on soldiers returning from Vietnam…. those are the people running the LEFT WING party today….

  41. What no one has said is that no matter what congress does we will always have a choice. They won’t back date the laws, therefore we who are currently serving will be grandfathered in and those who choose to serve in the future will do so volunteeringly. I have no problems with anything they have proposed as I am past my 10 year mark and if I decide to get out I will still get a retirement even if I don’t do 20 according to the new plan and if indent get out my 20 plan won’t change. People are over reacting to something that won’t effect much for current and previous members. It’s the future military it will effect. And even then people will still join because it is a calling to most of us.

  42. actors, actress pretending to care about the people who risk and still risking everything everyday so they can eat cream pie and coffee and sleep comfortable at night while we saw and still seeing our buddies suffering in the cold, heat, dust and their own sweat and blood to keep this country safe, nothing but mongers greedy as long as they can take which belong to us and put it their pockets that’s all that matters to them. We should be treated better and if the time come and that change is made. I grow up hearing a hungry man is an angry man because that is what is going to happen it they try to take food from our Family mouth by doing something so dumb after we have work so hard and earned it. I pray for this country in the direction it is going, for GOD will must be done not man.

  43. I believe that those of us who are already retired from the military will remain god fathered into the current retirement system. Anything else would be a breach of contract. My heart goes out to those still serving and especially those serving in combat roles. I suggest we all get involved by writing our congressmen and getting involved in organizations such as VFW and the American Legion. These guys might wear funny looking hats, but they have a lot of power.

    • I don't think it would be wise to assume we will be grandfathered at all. When I joined I was supposed to have health care for life. When I retired I ended up on Tricare for life, with the associated monthly fees, and BS in getting specialist referals. I don't doubt for a moment that if and when it becomes more opportune for our lawmakers to apply these changes retro actively to those of who have already retired that they won't do it. They will do it without a second thought, with a clear concience, and never look back.

  44. Derek Cummins says:

    Let the Politicians go to war we will all sit back and watch. of course they will lose every battle becuase the enemy doesnt shoot words the shoot bullets, and I bet most of these political type wouldn't sacrifice their pensions. Oh thats right they get a pension after serving in the congress and senate for a couple of terms and medical for life.

  45. William a veteran says:

    Don't mess with retirees they are a majority of the voting population.

    There are plenty of other crap to cut from the budget… Leave what is not broken alone.

    And give us our pay we are struggling here

  46. ThoseWhoServe says:

    You may safely assume that the "experts" ;who serve on these panels and most of whom went to great pains to never serve in the Armed Forces, much less in harm's way, are always willing to gut the retirement and healthcare of members of the Armed Forces.

    The further the country has moved from a military draft, the less the country is to reward the patriots who offer life and limb in defense of Liberty.

    These high-minded panelsists don't serve in the Armed Forces, don't want to pay taxes, and don't want anyone who pays into Social Security to collect a dime

  47. Remmy Webb says:

    After viewing some of the comments, must tell you I am a receipient of a SBP (Vietnam vet ) we served 20 years. He recently passed. We served around the world (as a dependent) was threatened daily with bomb threats in my garbage can in Berlin. I believe the Yellow Belly Congress is falling into the hands of Obama's Elete (Soros's Socialism). This is a straight forward attack to disable the "Powerful Military" so all Americans are vulnerable to socialism. I agree with one writer who stated keep the money at home – take care of our military (retirees) instead of corrupt governments. It is so sad these idots in Washington know no fear (because they believe the military will protect their pompus asses) Cut our retirement – they have no protection. None of them never stood at Check-point Charlie and looked over the Wall into East Berlin – to see the depression, the gray, and the mental/physical prison East Germany was in. No one in Congress understands who has secured our FREEDOM. It is the military man/woman. Do not mess with what was earned (we had low salaries – with the anticipated retirement). We willingly served, so our country stayed FREE.

  48. Remmy Webb says:

    This continued from my previous COMMENT: Congress just stop spending on Entitlements- Return what was earned by the serving military. To those who are active duty now – I extend my warmest thank you for taking our place in the fight for FREEDOM. God Bless YOU!!!!!

  49. Maybe the Panel should talk to some of the retired Soldiers and see how they are making it on retirement pay at 60 and older.After serving 34 years i feel that we need more not less.I hope that the White House read these comment and see how we feel

    • Goodbye USA says:

      Oh please. Do you think anyone in DC reads these.Tthe only thing DC understands is 1,000,000 retired vets marching down Pennsylvania Ave and in other major cities shouting out with the incumbents. Their will then say "Oh s**t there goes my cushy job and chance to make millions from lobbyists".

      Proud to have served, love my country, ashamed of Amerikas politicians!!!

  50. Norbert Kaussen says:

    One has to remember, that representatives in congress who have never served in the military,are approaching 96%. So when they proclaim that "I support the military men and woman in uniform" or "men and woman fighting the war are my heroes" don't believe them ! they really don't give a hood about the military, it's all a lie,political expediency ,they will do anything to keep their $170000 a year job,untill they die in office at age 80 or 90.And if they get caught stealing, and lining their own pockets($90K in the frige,or Charly Rangel not paying taxes for 30 years)they will be protected by their peers, on both sides of the eisle, and get away with a slap on the wrist(sensure) while soldiers out there bleed and die.Where is the justice America?

  51. no way its bad enough people serve active and then reserve due to a program they are offered then retire from the reserve or guard with 20 years but cant get any retirement not even a prorated amount yet civilians can get workman's comp etc. its kind of embarrassing for a retired reservist not having anything to show for their service. not all of us/them want to be in the uniform till they are 60 we want to do other things as well.

  52. R. Lindsey says:

    Our retirement pay is peanuts compared to all the fat cat in Washington. Thats where they should do an overhaul. There retirement pay is probably the best in the country. I think they draw there full pay when they retire.And when they die, there wives start drawing his pay. And it gets better every year when they give them selves a pay raise every year. They don't worry with this COLA that we have to go by.

  53. Dan Phelps says:

    It's interesting that apparently congress still goes by the "high-three" system, are vested after 5 years, and can start collecting benefits immediately if they do 25 years service (at 50 with 20 years or 62 otherwise) while there is consideration of changing the military to the average of the last-five years and raise the age to 60?

    From http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/retire… Members of Congress are eligible for a pension at age 62 if they have completed at least five years of service. They are eligible for a pension at age 50 if they have completed 20 years of service, or at any age after completing 25 years of service. The amount of the pension depends on years of service and the average of the highest three years of salary.

  54. Proud Texas Marine says:

    New retirement plan, no problem just as long as the Senate, Congress and President and familes fall under the same retirement and medical plan. Huh, what, that won't work? I didn't think so, bottom line is it is not our fault the Government keeps spending money on people and countries who hate us and give nothing back in return. We don't owe them squat.
    Patrick, please call 1-800-CRY-WHAA. Being a career Marine isn't "living on the dole", it's a calling. You seem upset that you didn't have what it took to "recieve the call." Call someone who cares.

  55. More news

  56. McCullough says:

    I am a retired female who is almost 57 year old. The job that I have been working in since I retired in 1997 almost closed down last year and is still in financial trouble. If this happen who do you think will hire a 57 year old. I will loose my house. President Obama and the other Senator and House of Representative you can not let this happen. I sure would like to see the salaries of those idiots that is proposing this. Have them to show proof of their salaries and yearly income and investments. If I only made half of the money they make a year and is able to work the few hours a week that they work. How many years have they spent in the military? How many time have they risks their live. Every time a crisis happen they called on the military. I want you to know I put my son through Chemical Engineer School. He will graduate this year and not owe one penny to the college. So I finally purchased my first home. If this take place I hope every person in the military get out. I am very upset with this.

  57. This idea might be considered if the Politicians, teachers and others would come under the same plan. Let's start with the Congress, Senate and other government workers. Let them lead by example of how to cut costs. We are already living with broken promises. NO MORE

  58. I recently retired after serving more than 20 years on active duty. Everyday I looked forward to the day that I could retire, start a new life with my family, and feel proud that I served my country and earned my retirement benefits. Now they want to take that away from us! So many of us have suffered so much over the 20 years. We deployed multiple times and spent years away from our families, risk our lives in some of the most dangerous places on earth, and many of us sustained life changing or threatening injuries. We do so much in those 20 years. There is no overtime pay for when a service member works over eight hours. Soldiers can't call in sick and say, "I don't feel like defending freedom today, I think I will sit this one out." Give us a break. If anything, how about finding a way to improve the retirement system for retirees that would encourage service members to all stay 20 years or even more. This is not the way to cut cost. It is a great insult to many military families.

    • I never heard of this before. Talk about annuities and TVM… They are really looking at deferring for quite a while. I imagine the average enlisted 20 year retiree is now around 38-42 ish. This would add 15 ish years to this group (not so hot for them) and 20-30 ish years to the 10-20 group (a better deal for this group). That is a huge Time Value difference for the gov’t to keep the $ (assuming the money is “ really there”). Maybe the members will die before then which would then treat this like the Soc Sec age increases. OR this could be in a response to increasing the costs of Health Care which could be financed by the deferment in payments. Funny that the overall active duty population is small but the retiree population is (I assume pretty big). But offering retirement payments to a new group, 10 – 19 yrs could greatly increase the unpaid liabilities on the balance sheet… This is a loaded plan. Tough to know with no numbers or reasons to look at… Lots to think about.

    • They are not talking about you.

  59. sea going sailor says:

    with military pay being to levels near equal to or better than average civilian pay
    cost of retirement has sky rocketed. TSP needs to be offered with matching funds the same as gov. employees. With the new system to determine if you can stay in for 20 or more years the Navy just about makes retirees be E 7 and above. I retired in 1981 @55% E7 647.00/month try to live on that , 36 months of shore duty and the rest sea duty.

    • lets get real says:

      647.00 that was 29 years ago; how much is it in 2010. i'm sure you got some raises in between

  60. iam looking forward to retirement , i hope this passes , tired of al the BS dealing with children in the Army !

  61. Whoever thought of this new BS changes that they wanted to imposed on the retirement , WHY DON"T YOU PUT YOUR SHOES ON THE SHOES OF THE VETERANS WHO FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY. PROBABLY YOUR SMART SITTING PRETTY ASSES NEVER BEEN OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES AND EXPERIENCE THE LONELINESS OF BEING AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILY. Can somebody from the group of these smart ass people do their research about what is really going on with the military family? How many percent is the divorced rate because of the situation that they can't handle? How many percent of the veterans are HOMELESS? UNEMPLOYED? After all of their sacrifice, these are what they're getting? Hopefully the KARMA will bounced back to those who want theses changes implied. Instead of itching your hands to sign on the new changes about the retirement, WHY YOU GUYS CAN'T CHANGED THE EDUCATION BENEFITS THAT THE NEWLY HIRED ARE ENTITLED TO. I've seen and heard a lot of people that I encountered , talked, and knew that they only get into the Service (Navy) just to get a free college. And they don't re enlist after 4 years. ISN'T WASTE OF GOVERNMENT RESOURCES AND MONEY, TRAINING SOMEBODY TO HAVE THE SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE AND AFTER THAT THEY JUST GOT OUT OF THE SERVICE. Can you guys compare their immature thinking and being self centered to those WHO SACRIFICE A LOT TO SERVE THIS COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS? MAYBE THESE SMART ASSES NEEDS TO GO OUT MORE ON THEIR COMFORT ZONE AND SEE THE REALITIES ABOUT THE MILITARY FAMILIES THAT ONLY DEPENDS ON THE RETIREMENT PAYCHECK . TRYING TO LOOK GOOD ON OTHER PEOPLE BY HELPING OTHER COUNTRIES, WHY CAN'T YOU GUYS FOCUS FIRST ON YOUR VETERANS FIRST BEFORE STRETCHING YOUR HELPING HANDS TO THE COUNTRIES THAT WAS NEVER THERE TO FOUGHT FOR THE FREEDOM , SECURITY AND SAFETY THAT WE ALL ENJOY NOW.

  62. TSgt Williams Ret. says:

    TSgt Disgusted Ret. I have a problem, I love and hate this country at the same time. Love the vets and active duty who have served and are now serving this great nation. I love the people that go to the pols and vote for the good of this country. I hate the buffoon who goes to the pols and votes another buffoon into office simply because grand dad always voted for this or that party. I hate that americans can't or won't wake up!!! There are ways to solve the situation these buffoons got us into.
    1. You vote for a military pay rate, minimum wage freeze, you the buffoon's pay is also frozen.
    2. Put cap on the buffoons salary, if its good for the military its good for them. Cap their pay at $100,000. If they can't make it on that, they get a part time job, hell thats what their office amounts anyway.
    3. The first, not the second time the buffoon's agenda deviates from what got him or her elected, jerk that ass out of office.
    I could go on and on but, in the interest of brevity, I will end with one last thought. America, wake the hell up before we find ourselves going the way of the dinosaur!!!

  63. Jesse Matthews says:

    As once again screw the little guy more money for the fat slobs in Washington.

  64. edmond collins says:

    Well that what you get when you put the tea party in the white house they don.t care a but the people ho gave there live tried to get a retire check all they know is cut money the elected officials that what to cut money from the military retire pay they should be send to the combat zone for a years

    • edmond, are you really that dense? You honestly believe the tea party is making these suggestions? The newly elected have NOT even taken office yet! Its YOUR presidents panel that are making these idiotic suggestions. Wake up and smell the socialism. DUH!

  65. roland thompson says:

    u retired from the air force 44-years ago as e-6. why has there been no effort to bring that retirement pay up tp today's standard?

  66. I hope some of those making that voted in the new GOP/Tea Party crowd just helped elect some of the very group that could take this retirement/Tricare ball and run with it, and not even blink. You can also bet that they will not vote themselves a pay cut, or stop future raises for themselves.

  67. Oops, early morning typo! I hope some of those making *comments* that voted in the new GOP/Tea Party crowd *realize they* just helped elect some of the very group that could take this retirement/Tricare ball and run with it, and not even blink. You can also bet that they will not vote themselves a pay cut, or stop future raises for themselves.

  68. sandy dorsey says:

    Cut ALL politicians pay down to 20,000.00 a year (they are already independently wealthy anyway). Cut ALL school board, college deans, school superintendents pay down to 20,000.00 a year as well. THESE people get HUGE checks, etc as it is they dont need anymore money.
    Further, cut ALL the groupes listed above their healthcare benefits for themselves AND their family down to where you pay out the nose, and you get little to no help/care. Think its time the rich folks of this country AND the lazy that are mooching the system and have for years..get off their butts and work.

    • Heard a report on CNN the other day that said 44% of congressmen are millionnairs or above. The figure is higher in the Senate. Talk about being independently wealthy anyway.

      But these guys are the types that will cut military pay/benefits so they can pay fewer taxes. Americans have been voting for these millionnairs/billionnairs for years without checking them out. Voting against their own best interests.

  69. Politicians (mostly Lib-tards) crap on working middle class, rich folks (those that create Jobs and this great country) and military while codling loosers, criminals, illegals and career welfare parasites. There just not going to be happy until this is a 3rd world country… "SPREAD the MISERY".

  70. Maybe we should cut politicians pay: Stop giving out money to other countries that we get nothing in return for our dollar; take a serious look at the welfare system. I gave this country 30 years of my life and I have earned my retirement. Basically what you are doing now is hoping that a military retiree died before he/she start drawing a retirement check at age 60. Vet. with one ear, PTSD, Agent Orange symptoms and the list goes on. 2012 will come real soon, start looking for a job.

  71. Hi guys. Like it or not, this panel is doing exactly what it was tasked with doing. Trying to figure out ways to lower the federal deficit. And there are only three places they can find the "big money", social security, military pay/benefits/programs, and medicare. Doesn't mean for a minute that the President will support their findings. The panel was created for a political purpose, which was to show that at least we're looking at possible solutions. They weren't tasked with finding realistic ones. And if you take a look at what the Democrats have done for us vets versus what the Republicans have over the past 10 years, the Dems clearly come out on top. Yes there was no COLA for the past two years. What did you expect when it is tied to the Consumer Price Index during a time of overall economic shrinkage? At least they don't take anything AWAY from our retirement pay. So "zero" is the least it can be. Here's a suggestion for saving money in military programs over the next 20 years or so; DON'T GO TO WAR IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES AT THE SAME TIME AND STAY COMPLETELY OUT OF OPTIONAL WARS.

    • Are you really that clueless as to the untold trillions of dollars that our government steals from us to send to every other country in the world?
      Are you equally clueless as to the billions spent to solicit votes by politicans who promise anything at any cost, to remain an elected official in their state.
      And all of the "crap" added on to every bill as "pork?"
      The list is endless, and,, oh, by the way, are you also clueless as to the fact that the first penny of the first paycheck ever made by all the "working class," military or civilian, paid into social security, Medicare etc, was stolen by these creeps, irrespective of political parfy!
      Get a clue!
      Do away with welfare: not Social Security, Medicare, Tricare and Military Retirement, and we would be swimming in dollars!
      Sadly, the c..s…'s would spend it all in a nanosecond!

    • I agree with you 100%. Can't understand how so many military folks think the R's are the good guys (for the military) and the D's are the bad guys. I'm a D and I keep up with this stuff. Bush waited 8 years before signing legislation for CRSC that cost me a whole lotta bucks.

  72. Isn't the military a duty to serve your country? Thats what you have to remember when making it a career. If you want career weenie rights, go work for some civilian company with a union. Otherwise serve your country and be happy for what you get. Ooh yeah, dont forget about all the benefits you and your family get while "serving your country"

    • MadMilitaryWife says:

      Really Johnny…It is a duty to serve your country…be happy for what you get…tell me where in a civilian job do you get shot at? At a civilian job you are promised retirement and the company usually matches it…not the military. Have you been to a military doctor? I'm going to guess no. Because you would know that most of the time it is like a cattle call where you get 5-10 minutes with the doctor who is so swamped that they dont' have time to correctly diagnose conditions. Our housing allowance? You couldn't live in a bad apartment with most of it. So, before you have the nerve to say any of that crap, I would suggest you do your homework and be thankful that someone is willing to be shot, injured or killed for your right to say whatever you want.

    • I woudl love for you to come do a day of work with me. You think military and only think of the wars. What you dont relieze is that we do our duty every where every day. I personally am active duty in the coast guard and have been proudly for 13 years. As for all the benefits we get i the service. You dont seem to remeber that we sacrifiec tremendoulsy to recive these benefits. Does my family get medical, yes it does. Only you forget that every couple of years my wife has to quit her job and move with me. The we go through the months of looking for a new job while trying to keep up on bills that we have. Maybe you should never speak again.

  73. Robyn Brown says:

    Please stop ragging each other here! Stay on task. This issue relates to principle and must be handled with our votes. The 2012 elections are on the horizon. Write your reprensentatives with a united voice. Look what the TEA Partiers did, they are uniting and making a difference. So can we!

    Unite and do not divide! That is how battles are won!

  74. Skewzie912913 says:

    Gives the VA and your particular branch more time to loose your records. Just like they did for me, continuous service from 1982 to 1992. But amazingly, there are six years missing, according to VA. And its on me to PROVE myself!!!!! Well how about photos of birthdays parties at home, and dad not in the pictures! How about photos of me reenlisting on the bridge of the USS San Diego? What exactly DO they want from me? The civilian support of the military is more hideous than the military itself !

  75. How about a two term limit for all Congressmen, and no retirement perks
    till they reach 65.
    Sounds fair to this ret. Msgt

  76. Retired Veteran says:

    We need to overhaul all politicians and their overpaid salaries’ they receive for basically doing nothing. It is funny that they can miss work day in and day out but you or I, we get fired, and if a Soldier missed formation he get wrote up and busted if he continue to do this. Yes there are veterans’ in Washington but most of them forgotten where they came from. Or they were FOBETS and they just play the role so they could get our vote!

  77. jack the ripper says:

    Now you know why John McCain ran for a Senators office: Here is his retirement pay.. 16.000 dollars a month for the rest of his life in perk, retirement and other loose benefits… and I forgot the Stock and backdoor deals that have been made with the Lobbyist in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.. Especially the Free stock that oil companies, and Drug Companies and others give those that betray the American Consumer.. what is this all about. So, I say never complain about me drawing my 2, 283 dollars a month for 4 service connected disabilities..
    Love all you guy, but, we must stand up and be counted..

  78. Although Patrick forgot or never learned the leadership trait of tact while in the Marine Corps, as a current 34 year vet (16 Active duty Marines, from then to present National Guard); some of what he said is true. It looks like many of us have the same problems as most Americans,We want the government to spend less, and keep our taxes low, but not at our exspense ourselves. Facts are; to fix the fiscal problems we have everybody is going to have to feel some pain. The might start by having everybody pay income taxes instead of just 53% of us, and reducing/elimanating alot of entittlement programs. We need to elimante wasteful spending first, then look at grandfathering what is currently in place, then cut the hell out of future stuff.

    • justanoldretiree says:

      You know, you do make a lot of sense with the following exception: Attacking the pay and benefits of military retirees is okay, but sharing equally means looking at all government pay and benefits. Unfortunately, the military is a very big chunk of the government and pretty easy to pick away at.

      Oh! Before I forget, I am also retired military.

      In my opinion, military retirees won't mind cutting retirement pay and benefits if they're not singled out as the easy targets; but if all government pay and benefits are equally treated.

      I wouldn't expect other government sectors to be any more singled out for sacrifice than we are either.

      Let's be clear though, keeping a viable fighting force won't happen no matter what, it comes at a cost.

      More later.

      • justanoldretiree says:

        Part two:
        As a youngster, the single most important reason I finally decided to make the military a career was the early retirement it provided, but that doesn't come easy, particularly if one has a family, i.e. wife and kids.

        For all those out there that seem to hate the military and its benefits, that's okay, but believe me, despite the retirement benefits, most young military people never consider making it a careeer, and do not do so because of the personal hardships to family, or for that matter for them personally.

        Retention is pretty high these days, but its only high due to benefits that are designed to cause that retention.

        If our military is to be destroyed, the age 60 retirements would be a good way to go about it.

        More later

        • justanoldretiree says:

          part three, final part:

          Strange though, its government leaders themselves that actually need a strong military, without which, their jobs/lives would not be too secure either.

          Mexico's current drug problems and lawlessness is already moving in our direction. A weakened military isn't a very good idea for the elites of our country that need to be protected. We, active military and retired military have and continue to provide a very valuable service to those that govern us. Hopefully, they will keep that in mind.

  79. Harold N. Precht says:

    This is a total load of crap. These idiots need to wake up and smell the roses. The reason that they can sit in the oak paneled offices and make these high minded decisions is because of those who served and those who died for this country. I served for 26 years and my family served silently at home while I served in Vietnam, Thialand, and other garden spots in the SEA theater. These jack wagons haven't got a clue but come times to save money they always look at the military and the seniors. I think that we need to remember this in two years and throw the rest out from the very top down. They all need to be replaced and their salaries need to be replaced with something similar to the Military pay system. Then when they leave office they to could see what Medicare and military retirement is all about.

  80. You people bitch and its YOU PEOPLE who VOTE!….these people into office!

  81. Mad MilitaryWife says:

    Normally, I don't comment on these things but this disgusts me. For some people to say that E7s and above don't lead their soldiers and make it a generalized statement shows that you obviously don't know good Senior NCOS and for that I feel sorry for you. But to the people who say that most soldiers haven't been to war and sit around doing nothing, you truly disgust me. My husband has spent 17 years in the army and more than half of that time has been spent in a war…not sitting around playing solitaire but being shot at and putting his life on the line for EVERYONE in this country. He has saved lives on more than one occassion and for that what does he get? A bunch of people who think that soldiers don't deserve what they were promised or think he sits on his ass and plays mahjongg.

  82. MadMilitaryWife says:

    #2 He has sacrified many holidays including this Thanksgiving and Christmas for you to complain on Yahoo about his retirement. Have you tried living on an soldiers pay recently? A lot of the lower enlisted soldiers and their families have to depend on public assistance while the soldier is off at war for at least the 2nd time if not many more. So, I have a really hard time listening to all of you complain about something that was already promised to soldiers from the time they joined the military. And then to hear some people say they don't deploy and when they do they just sit around…Thank God they do that or you wouldn't have the freedom to sit in your warm and comfy home on your laptop while they have crappy living conditions and eat MREs.

  83. Joel_Retired says:

    I am really getting tired of elected official determining how to save money at other people expense! If it wasn't for the 20 year retirement I would have left 16 years earlier as many would. Our elected officials need to look at themselves first, wouldn't it be niceif they had to function with the programs that they vote in for other people….they wouldn't survive.

  84. jack the ripper says:

    Ask not what your Congress can do for you… But, what can you do for your Congress – fire a round of protest – to restructure the government and vote all the Crooks out. To include our War Hero John McClain. Maybe we need a new commander called Commander SheinChief with a ton of war experience with polar bears and freezing temp. (experience: Cold Weather Training) And, can't you see Obam Selling Insurance Policies after his term . to those in India.. Well, conclusively now you see why we need to continue to hold to our guns and fire them all… Bang – I've had enough of brainwashing politicians.. Oh yea, that is the same technique used in warfare "
    Brainwashing"

  85. When we joined the military, we knew what we were getting in to. We joined under the promise that if we faithfully served 20 years or more, we would receive a retirement check for the rest of our lives. If I had known that after I had completed my part of the deal, the government would come behind me and change the terms of the deal, I wouldn't have joined and sacrificed 21 years of my life and my kids' life. It never ceases to amaze me how the military changes the terms of the contract that we signed after the fact.

  86. If they do enact any changes, it should only be for new recruits who know exactly what they are getting into and make a conscience decision to join. Why is it that military pay and benefits are the first things everyone wants to cut when they need to cut something. The pay and benefits of congress is never looked at. We have to do 20 years to get a retirement check but congress only has to do 5 years to be vested for retirement, even if they don't receive until age 60. When we leave the military short of 20, we don't receive anything unless it's disability or something. Receiving retirement credit after 5 years is crap when they get to sleep in their warm beds every night and don't have to eat MREs, 3 meals a day. http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL3

  87. This is totally sad. The congressman that have never served and I repeat never served, do they understand the sacrifices that our men and woman go through to protect this country and this is how you repay them. Where is our great system taking this country to? I am assuming to the dogs…

  88. go to this site and you will read how the COLA is determined. It's not done by the president. http://www.opm.gov/retire/faq/post/faq18.asp

  89. For those who are considering altering the military retirement system, your going to face a tremendous backlash which you wont understand. Youll lose loyalty, patriotism and possibly the all volunteer force concept will fail. Might as well consider starting the draft up again if you want that kind of strawman force.
    Regardless of service rendered your going to meddle with the only assurance military veterans who have served long enough to draw the pension annuity and destroy trust on both sides. We cant forget who we are or how our country was established. If you do there are dire consequences.

  90. BRING BACK THE DRAFT!!!!! The all these babies would know what it's like to be in the service protecting this country's citizen's rights to say the things that have been said here!!

    • Capn Ron, think back during the Vietnam war and how those in college were exempt from going into the military. My brother was drafted into the Marines because my single mom couldn't afford to send him to college. I had many classmates that used to laugh about having to stay in college so avoid the draft. So what I'm saying is that just because there is a draft doesn't mean the draft is equitable to everyone. If you have money, you can avoid it. Then there are draftees like Bush who never saw a day of combat duty in his life.

      • Bamasailor says:

        Bets, get off your box you liberal puke. What Capn Ron is trying to say is to make all you whinning punks stand up and defend the country or just STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  91. I certainly can understand all the anger and frustration here and having your 2cent say; but I do hope you same people are also writing your congressman. Cuts will happen – our flagging economy requires it – but we in the military or those who have since served need to voice our concerns and ensure our elected leaders that we are watching and will voice our concerns come election day.

    This little comment board is not going to do it. Write your congressman today.

  92. John Kirkham says:

    I'm a Vietnam Veteran and have served a little over twenty years. When I had to retire because of a Medical Condition, I was like any other person – we were given scraps for retiring, just like the civilian populace. Why not improve our monthly compensation. In fact, make it like our elected officials in Congress get when they retire! Anyway, why can't we find out if these people on these panels have ever served or not. Give us some names and how to contact them. Maybe I missed something here, but can't everyone on these panels be veterans…at least they would improve our situation, not hammer it.

  93. I'm a retired Reservist (formerly a Regular), with 22 years total, about 8 active, and called up to the Middle East involuntarily in late 2002. My position then was that the government had cut the active component deliberately to save money, shifting the burden of warfighting to our reservists, because they are much less expensive. Sure, you have to pay them the same as regulars during their active duty, but their retirement is much less, because they may qualify after 20 years, but don't get benefits until age 60. If they die before age 60, without having Survival Benefit Plan insurance (which reduces their benefits), their spouses get nothing at all. An attorney friend of mine called me cynical. Hmmm…

    Other government employees who mostly don't risk their lives, even during wartime, get paid retirement at age 55. There are many more of them. Why don't we increase their retirement age? Why don't we eliminate dual military/reserve (and service) for those who simulaneously serve in civil service and the reserves? I've known people who, if mobilized, would go home, change clothes, then report back to their civilian government workplaces to perform their military duties. Then, they would be paid military leave from their civil service jobs (for 60 days/year, maybe 90), in addition to their military pay while on active duty. Where's the value in that?

  94. Ok… so you show me the numbers of active duty military vs. those in theatre (and I'll let you include the desk jockies) for any given point in time.

    • 20 year spouse says:

      The point you seemed to have missed here is that every single one of those 'desk-jockey's' is WILLING and ABLE to be sent in-theater at any time in support of their county. There is no 'join the military and be safe 24/7' clause. When you sign up this is a very real possibility. Somebody has to make sure the weapons are where they need to be and troops are fed!

      • God bless you, 20 year spouse, it's not only the one in action, usually there's a family at home waiting, and praying. The whole family makes a sacrifice. I know, for I was there also. 70-73

      • I am a 15 yr spouse and we sacrifice alot for very little. I despise these people that have never truly been through what we go through and think we have it made. I personally think its not enough but we don't do it for the money we do it cause we believe in our freedom. I have had friends die and come back injured. So cutting what we do get (which is not much) is ridiculous.

        Patrick Your just plain STUPID. You might have been in for awhile BUT YOU NEVER SERVED!!!

    • Patrick,
      Let me start by saying thank you for your service to our country. Many don't serve but you gave five years to the Corps and we appreciate that. What I will also say is that you know down deep the sacrafices all service members make whether they be desk jockies or steely eyed killers on the front. The time away from family, the long hours, the foreign countries and so forth. Don't degrade their service to our great country. The families of those killed during 9/11 are a small token of the loss out country has felt to terrorist aggression. Whether or not service members can "hack it" in the real world is not the issue. It's the free choice they have to do so. If you are just trying to get attention on this board then I would advise going somewhere else. You don't need to rile people up with your small minded views. You need to thank them for being able to do so.

    • Patrick,

      Here's the point, and I'll break it down so even you can understand. Once that dotted line is signed, the individual, regardless of branch or occupation specialty, has agreed to what's referred to as the "unlimitted liability" clause. In other words, they have signed on to give their life in the defense of their country while preserving the freedoms you and I were given at birth. It's roots are the very foundation of the number one and most powerful military the world has ever seen. If you can't understand that simple principle of allegiance, then feel free to continue rambling your ignorant statements and responses.

  95. James Wilson says:

    Don't expect President Obama to mess with the Disabled Veteran Comp.
    but I expect they will do something about the reitrees pay .

    Reagan Policys were nothing more than a Transfer of Wealth to the Military Industrail Complex and now all his debts are comming due !

    Did you think Reagan Military Expansion would not have a grave cost over time ?
    Reagan did not pay for anything he only created longterm debt that is now crippling us !!!!
    Most people forget that Reagan put $ 3.4 Trillion Dollars in U.S. Treasury Bonds in the Social Securty Trust Fund .
    Then Reagan ran up a $ 3 Trillion Dollar National Debt .
    Plus he raised the reitement age twice !
    Then Reagan spent the money on weapons and created chaos around the world ! In chaos there is profit !

  96. All I can say is if they keep messing with all the military personalI I hope each and every on of they take a real hard look at what they are doing and get out of the military. Then some of these people can worry about there grandkids getting drafted. May be that will change there minds. I retired after 20 years and did not see any of them moving around this world with me at the whim of the goverment.

  97. Colonel Chris says:

    Once more the U.S. military will be used as the scapegoat to solve the country's debt problem. Not the numbers of federal civilian employees, not the Senators and Congressmen with their own systems. And certainly not the large numbers of U.S. citizens, who make up the dead weight of the social welfare systems. And God forbid we even mention the impact of the illegal undocumented aliens on the U.S. domestic economy, social services and social security. And damn well say nothing about the billions sent to third world countries, who despite all the aid will rise no further than they are now. No, as usual, just stick it to the folks in uniform.

  98. james wilson says:

    Do you think when Republicans were handing out $ 300,000,000.00 to EACH Laura Bush for her Charity , Lynn Cheny for her Charity , and to Barabra Bush for her Charity , then passing the UNFUNDED TrillION Dollar Drug Bill , the UNFUNDED Trillion Dollar No Child Left Behind Act , and the Trillion Dollar Faith Based Grant Progams that they did not know the country was going to be broke when they Finished ?????

  99. Listen you Career Active duty have been spoiled for way to long. Now you will get an idea what its like to be a Army Reservists or National Guard member. Your arrogant attitudes caused this and weak leadership at the General level. The Generals can't say much about it due to they have to stay out of the Legislative process. You get what you deserve and its about time the Active Duty System comes in line with everyone else now in this country. No one has such a cushy early retirment anymore and its about time the active components get off theri high horse. If you think your legislative officials give a flip about it your wrong, they are now selling you dowen the river after abusing an all volunteer military for the last 10 years in the current conflict. This is the way they pay you back for your volunteer service. What a spoiled buch of sissys the active duty are and you can't even stand up to your government and take control because they have ties your hnads in doing that.

  100. james wilson says:

    Republicans are the ones who SNEAKED the Banking Deregulation Bill into a 2 am Appropriations Bill and Sneaked it past Bill Clinton !!
    Reagan would have signed it openly because of his disease a Goldman Sach Banker was Leading Reagan around by the nose . But Republicans needed to blame a Dem. so they changed 50 year old Banking Committee Rules to allow only 3 Member to pass a Bill.

    If Republicans loved their country why would they allow the USA to go along since 2000 with NO BANKING REGULATIONS ???
    Why did they not shout it from the Mountain Tops when they SNEAKED the Deregulation past Congress how Great they were getting rid of Banking Regulations ??

    • James, you're hugely misinformed, which could lead to a whole different opinion about your intelligence level. Nobody sneaks anything past a president. If he doesn't want the bill, he vetoes it, if he agrees, it passes through as legislation. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are the 2 primary individuals who pushed through changes with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac over the issues of home ownership. Clinton was fully behind this effort and it eventually led to a great majority of our current financial woes. Plus you have a current sitting president who has increased the debt by more than all of his predecessors.

  101. James wilson says:

    This whole Banking Crash is part of the larger plan of CAFTA/ NAFTA to create ther North American Trading Block and the Amero !
    Soon People from all over the North American Contient can cross out borders and work anywhere without question .

    This is what the U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE wants and to do it ALL ALMERICANS STANDARD OF LIVING HAS TO DROP !!!!
    For NAFTA to work all the Currencys on these Central American countrys and the USA must be equal !!!!!

    You want to thanks someone for this look at the Chamber of Commerce and Republicans who have moved the Koch Brothers Agenda forward to the New Wolrd Order !!!!!

    Notice there is no mention of cutting the $ 8,000,000.00 Million Dollars a Day that goes to Israel !!!!!!!!!

    Semper Fi

  102. Defer their 'lifetime' retirement check and medical until they turn 60 in the same bil…see how far that flies…

  103. I see another Social Security system arrising.
    The Feds. will not keep this as a seperate system just like social security and in the future they will realize they can't keep the system as they spent all the money and have govt. bonds for IOU's that are not worth the paper the are written on!!!!!

    My, My how stupid do they think we really are???? What a great way for them to put money in the govt. coffers today only to short the retirees of the future.

    When do they realize if they keep changing what they promised in their verbbal contract with the military confidence will errode to the point that there is no one that will step future to sign up. How will they protect the country then??

    Oh, lost my head for a minute if they keep unemployment high people will have to sign up to have a job. Maybe they feel they will have a one world govt. by that time and can call in the UN peace keepers to keep us safe. That would be a real good idea, call in the people that hate what America stands for to keep us safe. Fox in the hen house anyone??

  104. TSP is a bad choice. After retiring from the Navy I entered Civil Service and
    upon retiring from Civil Service I purchased an annuity with my TSP. I
    elected to designate my spouse as beneficiary with 50% of my TSP as
    I did with my Navy retirement's RSP. Upon my spouse death they
    reduced my TSP to 50% and as far as I can see I can't designate
    anyone else as beneficiary if there is anything left in my annuity.
    When my spouse passed away my Navy retirement did not get
    cut to 40%. I feel sorry for those that did the same thing and was
    not informed correctly of what would happen if either passed away.
    Now I have to live to the age of 105 to draw out all of the money I
    put into TSP. Retired E-7 USN>

  105. Anthony-USMC got it right, lets overhaul the congressional and senate retirement system first. They only have to serve one term and get full retirement and benefites. I did 21 years in the AF and don't get that.

  106. Ray Scaletti says:

    Why are we fighting a war that we can not win, and if we win what is the prize? If these elected leaders want to lead they should lead like we were trained to lead, "By Example". That is why I do not vote for people in office on any level. They do nothing for me and this is another example of what "THEY" think of the American fighting man and women. They want to reduce the debt than spend less. Let the world handle the problem if we don't like it "NUKEEM".

  107. obama is a ain't sh it ni gger i can not wait until the day he leaves office. i am waiting to ship to basic and quite frankly im not sure if i even want to serve for our country anymore. he is nothing but a scared little bi tch. why would you ever cut benefits from the people you protect this country that is so called land of the free. if you ask me there ain't nothing free about what this ni gger or his little minions in congress are trying to do

    • stop being ignorant, notice its republicans that want to screw with this because if it doesnt benefit business it doesnt matter to them…greed nation wins again…sorry Vets, thanks for playing our game

      • Mayor…it isn’t the Republicans that want to do this…it is a “bipartison” commission looking at ALL ideas to cut the debt. Your partison hatered for Republicans is no different than the OP ignorant views on our President. You are BOTH part of the problem and not the solution.

    • First of all THANK YOU for not wanting to serve!!! Secondly like it or not Obama is and will be your Commander in Chief… in other words he’ll be your boss Sherlock!! And this is a discussion about OUR MONEY, those of us who have served, and served proudly! I would love to be a fly on the wall when you attempt to use a “N” bomb, guarantee it will be worst A$$$$ whipping you’ve ever received in your life!! Thanks once again for not serving, positions within MY MILITARY requires teamwork and the ability to understand complicated systems which from your terminology (that’s your speech son) you most likely had problems graduating. And one last thing there is no color in the service only seaman, airman marines and army, we work hand in hand protecting each, if you aren’t able or willing to do this I suggest you continue living in the woods and kissing your cousins we don’t need nor want your type!

      Hick hater, retired USN

  108. HM1 Retired says:

    Yep…. here we go again. Let's cut our national defense even more by taking away from those that have EARNED their benefits –retirement and medical. It's highly likely that the current administration is not only looking to gut medicare to support their ridiculous agendas such as Obamacare and increasing welfare programs to continue enabling the lazy leaches of society to develop their false sense of security and undeserved entitlements. Perhaps the Senators and Congressmen that are pursuing hacking up the military retirement system, should also look at their retirement pay system as well. I guess it's time to contact the Tea Party and get them on the ball. If anything, they've proven to be an excellent driving force given the results of the last election. I've already started emailing the idiot Senator here in Virginia–Jim Webb (who is one of the retards looking to hack up the system… he's a Marine to boot). Unless you take action EVERY DAY, the morons who are planning to destroy the system will do so. Please keep in mind that overhauling TRICARE may mean YOU pay for it… I remember this issue being discussed on the onset of Obama's term. I can't wait until 2012.

  109. I'm a retired Marine (26 years) and I can only speak for myself. Many demanding careers have 20 year retirements where the individual draws retired pay immediately: police, fire fighters, FBI etc. There's a good reason for this; these careers are potentially dangerous and physically demanding. A military career is VERY tough on families. I moved 14 times to include twice overseas. If you add up all my deployed time away from my family it's litterally years. Nothing sadder than telling your 17 year old daughter that we have to move again and she will spend her senior year at a new high school. Her third HS in four years! The retirement system made much of this bareable.

  110. this is just another way of the people that sit congress with a big pay check and allowances from the back's of those of us that have service with pride for our country. Yet they HAVE the "BALLS"to tell us to go and fight for them and there family and expect us to come back home and forget about our benefits until they decide to send us again to fight. Maybe they should all kiss my ass! than there kids should be draft into the service right out of high school without any pay, because that were it seen that we are going with this. I believe that this president will sure to be just '"ONE TERM PRESIDENT". THE REST OF PANEL FINDING IS JUST "BS, BS, BS'". PANEL IS FULL OF IT!!!!!!

  111. If this is a serious review they should bring back the DRAFT and that one action will reduce the number of future retirees. Of course they don't have the stomach for making such a rational proposal, all their rich buddies would raise up and cut off the money. War's are created by politicians for political reason yet the majority of the pol's haven't served nor has a family member served. Its all about politics and picking on the group(s) that have the least say in Washington. I believe the American people will not buy this as an all volunteer force means you take care of your armed force not use it a whipping post. I proudly served my country for 45 years (22 Army & 23 Air Force civilian (1963-2008)) and feel I earned my retirement.

  112. SGT Piland says:

    I don't want Politicians need to go to war I don't want to have to pull their bodies out of fight because they are there just to know what it is like…I have enought to worry about. I have served 15 years both on active duty and currently in the Kansas National Guard, I am pereparting for my 4th deployment. If the Politicians on the Hill think that cutting back on mil­i­tary retire­ment is going to help cut back on spending then, let the military and the public decide if cutting back on Congressman and Senators retirement (by the way you only thave to serve there for the most 6 years and you don't have to pay into anything to get it.

  113. The two panels should be overhauled an completely booted out of office. I want to abolish there retirement completely, there are the reason retirement is so f'd up because many of the Gongressman only have to work less than two years an get complete retirement benefits. Stripe all of them who only worked less than two years that would fix a plethra of problems. My husband is full time retirement coming from the Navy they better not touche what he has earned or the whole country will turn on them just so that they deserve !

  114. VoixVelour says:

    National Security of The United States in the hands of rank amateurs and supersized idiots? What can be done? Who listens? It is unbelievable and I hold an MBA.

    Many do not realize that our military organizations make an attempt to lobby, but effectiveness is burdened by the "etiquette" of the "politically correct" as if always weighing "is THIS the battle" for which to CASH IN all CHIPS.

    Not even into comments below there are those realizing the "GREAT DIVIDE."
    The YOKELS among "civil servants," most of whom completed an essay for "hire?" They are mindless bureaucrats supported by their UNONS having built into the payrolls the UNION DUES that then transfer to coffers for POLITICAL SUPPORT. But "the bills" for all government payrolls for all UNION EMPLOYEES GO TO ALL TAXPAYERS INCLUDING US!!!!

  115. Madolyn Powell says:

    These fluke heads on these panels have no understanding of the military. It's just as all the other recommendations that are being made by these people who have had no association with the military to undesand it. They are making a deliberate effort to destroy the military and they will if this succeeds.

  116. CSM Dan Williams says:

    For all of you in the Armed Forces that voted for "CHANGE"……congratulations! You can now see another nail being driven into the coffin of this Country. I am sure that this is not the "CHANGE" you had in mind.

  117. Someone mentioned that we did not get a COLA increase because of items were the same cost as last year. BUT, I cannot buy those items because my natural gas, water, electricity have all gone up! Soooo, whatever government think tank looks at in figuring COLA needs to look at what retirees are spending their hard earned money on.

    • SFCDGSayre says:

      I agree. I have been told the COLA is tied to I-Bills and you can look it up on line. It pays an interest rate plus an inflation rate and right now it is set at (0) zero!! I don't know about you, but I can make my check books say just about anything I want them to, that doesn't mean that what they say is true. The COLA scheme is just the federal government cooking the books to try an make-up for the billions upon billions of failed stimulus money. "Gone in 2013" And, I agree that congress should not get full retirement and medical benefits for serving just one term.

  118. Where can you serve 2 years or 6 years get full benfits and full salary ???
    Become a congressman or senator,that's where. The man in the white house will enjoy life time pay and benefits for the rest of his life for putting the screws to you and the rest of the nation.

  119. I completely agree with the changing to another social security system is what they are shooting at. My suggestion is that we can save more by placing the tenure date for congress/senate at the ten year point and when that is attained, their retirement pay should be based on number of years of service and seniority to match that of the military. In line with that, we need to put them on the TRICARE system as we are. This would serve two purposes; Fisrt, they would think twice about any future ‘overhauls’ because it would affect them too. Second, it would save virtually as much money even though there are fewer representatives than military members as the amount of their retirement is phenominal.

    I am sure this will do nothing but get a chuckle it that. I am sick of being screwed over every time the wind blows. They only need us so they don’t have to stand a post.

  120. Henkle11936 says:

    This plan may work if initiated at the beginning of military service with full knowledge by the volunteer of his/her retirement/medical benefits BUT it will NOT work for those already in the system. They signed a binding renewable contract upon first enlisting, and those contracts MUST be honored, to prevent blood in the streets. The most logical method would be to let the existing contracts live out their terms and THEN switch to an ALL RECRUITED/NO VOLUNTEER armed forces with a mandatory service requirement of (x) number of years. Educational benefits for all those recruited for service should be extended to a full 4 year college education FREE OF CHARGE for service rendered. This mandatory national service would, of course, apply equally to ALL AMERICANS, The Constitution needs to be changed to provide for a MANDATORY length of military service which applies to ALL AMERICANS, including POLITICIANS and certainly AS A REQUIREMENT for ELECTION to any public office, including the RESIDENCY. No panel or office in the government should be making these critical decisions. Let the people decide!

  121. Patrick, maybe I missed it, but did you serve in any branch of the military, even if just for 2 years? I bet not. I served our great nation for 33 1/2 years. Of that time, I spent several years away from my family, missing my kids school activities, etc. What sacrificies have you made for our great nation?
    The law needs to be changed that in order to hold a policital office, you must have served for a minimum of 4 years of active duty, I am sure the political views would change and congress would not be so swift to always look to solve the nations debt problems by cutting military benefits or changing the retirement system. Changing the retirement age to 60 will only create a hollow force or members will delay retirement until age 60, of course, many will be "forced out" prior to age 60 under force management actions. Anyway, enough said, all elected officials should serve before being allowed to run for any office, even the presidency.

  122. Patrick, you sound like the guy lying on the couch in the GEICO commercial! No wonder you got out or were booted out!

  123. VoixVelour says:

    CA is on the verge of bankruptcy. With a LOW TURNOUT, those that did are the GLTBs, UNIONS, and low IQ minorities that do not recognize that 80% of funding for Social Programs goes to obscene compensation packages of "PUBLIC EMPLOYEES," not with required education/skills for job slots that are delivering the UNION DUES! Incompetents! Orange County TAXPAYERS paid out $4.5 MILLION in damages plus $1.5 MILLION in legal costs to a mother who had been deprived of custody of her daughter nine (9) years due to unfounded opinion of a social worker and her supervisor

  124. USAF RETIRED says:

    POINT BLANK – This is sad. It is time for this BS to stop. In our form of goverment we have the wolf guarding the hen house. While congress votes on thier own pay raises and has the sweetest retirement known to mankind, they have the nerve to to even consider playing with the Military Retirement System as a way to cut spending, without even considering their own retirement system. I will say this, there are many service members, both active and retired that belong to military organizations such as the American Legion, VFW, ect…. , and they all VOTE !!! As the saying goes, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. Any congressman or senator that votes to do anything to the retirement system, other to improve it will most likely be serving their last term. As for the brain trust behind this panel, Former Senator Pete Domenici and the Harvard educated economist / political advisor Alice Rivlin, neither has SERVED in the military. So what makes their public service so much more important than Military Service that their retirement system is untouchable. Unbelieveable. Have they ever put their life on the line for something they believe in? MAKE IT BETTER OR LEAVE IT ALONE!!!

  125. John Tolley says:

    Let some of these panel members be on a 2-way shooting range and see how they feel. The retiree's need to set their sights on the entitlement society that make there living on the backs of others.

  126. biggie, you have issues bigger than politics!

  127. Henkle110936 says:

    Actually, the whole concept of NATIONAL SERVICE should be overhauled. It is the height of stupidity to elect a PRESIDENT as Commander in Chief of all the armed forces of the United States who has never experienced the adventure of recruit training and military service in one of the active combat branches. How can we elect a person to Commander-in-Chief who does not even know what a "shit can" is?

  128. Servicemen and women: Somehow we would not have this rug pulled out from under the military if a Republican administration was in-place. It is part of the vile agenda of the treasonous demoncrat community organizer who occupies the White House under false pretenses. I suppose the phony bama will replace the military with the "do ask-do tell" swishes and issue lipstick in their uniform allowance. For stealing the military retirement from those who have served or would have served with honor, courage, and commitment…bama types will have to institute the draft, for what fool would enter the military under the new system of denial with a "retirement" kept out of reach and a lack of respect to the military with a slap on the face at the outset.

  129. Interesting. Let's change a system that has worked well for years, and leave in place systems that were created during this administration and have failed miserably. I wonder how this will turn out.

  130. I believe we should have Oliver North take over…he has served and I believe he would do the right thing for our past and present military…They deserve all we can give…

  131. PR1 Retired says:

    I'm a retired navy enlisted man who never saw combat. I did however work on the flight deck of aircraft carriers, and in other hazardous jobs. I have lost friends and come close to death, all this in peacetime. I know hard decisions have to be made in order to avoid national calamity. I love my country and want the best for it. I'm just a little confused that this administration spends millions on ads to encourage people to sign up for food stamps and propose unsustainable spending, and then turn around and cut military benefits. I hope that congress has the wisdom to hold the line for us.

  132. Chuck Pierce says:

    More than just the retirement system needs to be looked at, I believe that the military needs to serve at least 25 years before being fully vested but should be vested in some system with 5 years. The TSP makes sense but must be matched to what the individual serves. At 25 years he could draw 60% of his high 3 years at the day of retirement, at 20 he could draw 10 years after retirement. at 15 or lower he would draw at 60.
    The one thing that the pols need to understand is that only 18% of people who enter the service retire, for the most part the military is a young persons profession, exception is general officers and some senior NCO, who can go well into there 50's. The disability system through the VA and the VA needs to be looked at also, the disability pay I receive is nice but not necessary what is needed long term, the medical treatment I receive from the VA is substandard at best and criminal at worst. Anyone leaving the service at 5 years or later should be given TRICARE with the option to by in his family and the VA Medical dies on the vine.

  133. Rick Ouellette says:

    If you change the current system you had better re-institute the draft because people will serve the minimum required years and leave for a better paying job in a less stressful environment. Why should young men and women risk their lives for lower pay without retirement advantages? Makes no sense what-so-ever. If you want a rag tag military with the capability of that of Albania, just change the retirement system. Want to save money ? Have everyone earning an income pay into Social Security. Eliminate Federal and State Employee pensions and have them invest in IRAs and 401K plans like everyone else. Eliminate the cap on Social Security which is now at about $104,000. Let the high earners pay on all of their income like the low earners do. Stop allowing congress people to retire with full pensions after serving 2 years. Clean up our corrupt government and you will find that there is money for government to meet its oibligations if spent properly.
    Instead, look closely at the Pentagon and its free spending practices for systems we neither need nor want. Billions are mis-spent in that building alone. I dare say, they mis-spend enough money every year to pay for the entire military retirement system.

  134. Robert A Hunt, USN Retired says:

    I think that before congress revamps the military retirement, they need to revamp their own retirement program.

    The military at best for 20 years of service only gets 50% of their base pay and what does congress get? A lot more than that.

    50% of your base pay and you still have to go out and get another job to live on. With what the congress gets for retirement, I could live on confortably without having to get another job.

    Congress should keep this in mind. If the military was able to revamp congresses retirement would they want us to cut it? Would they want us to do away with certain perks? Would they want to have to go out and get another job?

    Things should be fair. That is all I am asking and I am certain that all retired and soon to retire military want.

  135. Carrer Active Duty finally realizes they are just like the Army Reserves and National Guard. Generals are obligated to Congress who appoints them. Privately Congress appoints few strong minded Generals. Enough weak ones they can keep in line and avoid a "Coup de Etat". Example: which Generals are fighting and taking a stand rebutting this new retirement system, not a single one. Proof Military General Leadership is weak at the top. Most Generals don't realize the power they actually have. Proof again most Generals are very weak. Of course this is what Congress wants. People forget the Federalists Papers the Constitution and Bill of Rights, which we still follow and can control many of the issues between the Military and the Legislative Process Officials. You are being sold out by both your Military Leadership (which is weak) and the corrupt Congressional Legislature Process. Military Leadership allows corrupt Congressional legislative abuses on private citizens when they have the power to put Congress in line. But that would require strong independent minded Generals, which again proves Congress promotes weak ones they can keep in line!!!!!!

    • You are right on the mark!!! That Admiral Mullins is staggering for his arrogance and complete disregard of rank and file and leadership of all branches of service. None are "stout hearted men" of history.

  136. Let's see, what is a Senator's or Congressman's retirement plan?

    The current salary (2010) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.

    Senate Leadership
    Majority Party Leader – $193,400
    Minority Party Leader – $193,400

    House Leadership
    Speaker of the House – $223,500
    Majority Leader – $193,400
    Minority Leader – $193,400

    Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Members of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension.

    The amount of a congressperson's pension depends on the years of service and the average of the highest 3 years of his or her salary. By law, the starting amount of a Member's retirement annuity may not exceed 80% of his or her final salary.

    Let's hold a "Blue Ribbon" panel and recommend they take a 50% cut in pay. Better yet, tie their salary to their productivity!

  137. MichaelJBeggs says:

    This goes beyond killing morale, this will retention.

  138. Nam vet and I agree with nearly all the comments. I retired after 2 years as a Navy corpsman and 22 years AF. It’s been nearly 15 years and all they ever do is screw with active duty and retired military. They need to stop screwing with all of us and either go back to the draft or pay. And if it’s true that congress awards politicians a retirement after one term? Shame on them!!!!

  139. Okay! I can see retiring after 10 years fo service being a good thing for some people. I also see 20 years being good for the people that want to do that. What I do not see as a good thing is waiting until we are 57 and 60 years old to receive the retirement pay. Think about it, most of us joined the military between the ages 18-25, with some being closer to 30. If a service member stays in for 10 years, he/she will only be at the most 40, and almost 50 for 20 years.

  140. Think of how much some of the little things have changed over the last 10 to 20 years, like candy bars, outside games, video games, television, and cassette tapes/dvds. Candy bars have gotten smaller and more expensive. Outside games are not played the same because of changed environments. Video games have gotten life like and motion sensored. Televisions are more clear and lighter in weight for the same screen sizes as back in the day of heavy tv's. Cassette tapes are obsolete for dvd's and dvd's are now converting to blu ray and will eventually be obsolete due to streaming videos and movies online. Now thinks about this, If all of these little things changed so fast, how do anyone expect the retirement package that this panel is trying to set up going to stay in place for 10-40 years? There was a time when we had to write letters to people miles away, now we are connected through email, text messages, video messages, and web cams. We can blog about the same thing and live thousands of miles away from eachother. We can get the news from other countries within munutes without ever having to turn on a tv or radio.

  141. Hey shit heads I am willing to bet that most if not all of you voted Repugnant.
    And now that the Repugnants has shown their true colors once again and you've all been suckered.

  142. I was just retired Dec of 2009 for medical reasons. That was my master plan NOT!!!!!!!!!I was injured in AFGH, and now you want to cut my pay what the
    F!@# is going on with this country. I agree with everyone else we need to stir the pot in wasington. I can see telling us before we join that this was coning down the pipeline but no one in their right mind would go. I feel out raged because I did 26 years but that is nothing compared to the guys/gals who served before me.

  143. I say it is time we took this country back and made it the great nation that it once was. We need to eliminate the persons in Congress that don't get it. Vote them out and tell them we are voting them out loud and clear. Demonstrations, what ever it takes. I am sick and tired of the military being the scapegoat. Retired Army SFC and tired of the way our great country is being ran.

  144. We start out feeling confident that we are to put our lives in harms way. Just to be told you are not worth the sacrifices you have made for your country and the people who live in it. I have been there twice in Iraq and I understand Afghan is even worse. Now you wish to retire us early and make us wait 30 to 40 yrs for our pay or make us wait til 57 if we stay 20 yrs active service. That is madness, not only did we volunteer to sacrifice our lives, but our families sacrifice as well with having to see us come and go. Even see us go but never return but yet you wish to prolong our retirement. Think of something better because I strongly disagree that this is the route to go.

  145. ENRAGED & DISGUSTED says:

    OH PATRICK
    Where do I start… You are repulsive and a sorry excuse for a VET. You're so ill-bred you don't even know what you’re talking about. Harm’s way or not, we’ve (and currently) served our country and sacrificed our way of life for the better of our country and world. The retirees have EARNED it. You’re one of those people that just don’t get it! From what you’ve said, sounds like you’re just hurt for something that happened in your career/life. Get a Shrink!

    • ENRAGED & DISGUSTED says:

      I’m a VET and currently married to an active duty Soldier. He’s currently deployed to Iraq and is on his 4th rotation there. He’s accomplished more in his career than you’ll ever accomplish in your lifetime. He’s been a drill sergeant and trained thousands of Soldiers to deploy and defend our country and way of life. Can you say you’ve done that? Can you say you’ve ever been in a combat zone and known the stressors of IED rounds zipping by as you work, whether it’s at a desk or in a tank? The fear is still the same. Will I be killed today? Will I ever see my family again? These are questions you don’t live with everyday. You know why? You gave up because you think you’re better than everyone else. Well, you’re not. You’re quite the opposite. You’re a coward. You have no right to make statements that you have no business saying.
      My husband and our family have sacrificed more than you can ever comprehend. I’m infuriated by your accusations and you’ve compelled me to do more and to speak up against ignorance like yourself!

      • ENRAGED & DISGUSTED says:

        To all the VETs and the issue at hand… I agree. I voted for President Obama as well. I think his lack of patriotism is shining through on this one. The military retirement, disability, or pay is the last place you should be trying to make cut-backs. As many of you have said, let’s reevaluate the political arena when it comes to money and debt management. No more favors for votes. How about you fine politicians when they lie? LMAO! Look at big corporations and their retirement plans. Oh and the oil industry which makes a ton of profit. I’m ok with increasing income taxes too especially for the rich. You make more, you get taxed more. It’s simple. Oh and a reminder: it took how many years to get in this much of a national defecate? It’s gonna take awhile to come out of it too. What was the reason behind it? To fight a war (for whatever reason)! We are the “World Super Power!”

        • ENRAGED & DISGUSTED says:

          The American casualty rate in Iraq is an est. 10,000+. <script src="http://antiwar.com/ewens/counter/casualties.js"></script><script src="style1.js"></script><script src="template1test.js"></script> That doesn’t include the injured or the ones that have committed suicide. I’d like to thank all Soldiers that have defended our country with honor. You make us proud to be an American. Your sacrifice should be the nations burden.

  146. Charles Bryson says:

    The proposal is a real travesty. Delaying payment until the former service member is either 57 or 60 is riduclous. It's like gambling that the former service member will die before reaching either age…And, hoping that he or she does die… The military life is challenging enough not only for the service member but the family of the service members… To impose such legislation upon serivice members is equally as horrendous as what has transpired with the VA over the decades since the end of the WW II. Funding for the VA has not lived up to challenges that previous administrations have gotten the military involved. Think Iraq for an example..And, the amount of lives and injuries that have been brought on by our engagement there.

  147. Antonio Fernandez says:

    You numb nuts who were voted in to our countries control, better wise up, the best thing you do is go to africa and tangle with a lion bare handed before fooling around with out livelyhood
    I do hope that majority of you have taken the hint that money is not going to purchase you a seat in Washington DC
    To show the country that you truly believe in getting things straight, first take a ten percent cut in pay and all benefits, set up a pay scale for the President and a budget for us wife, by doing that this Great Country will be able to replace some part of the millions you all are receiving for doing nothing and AF-1, will not have to undergo maintenance inspection as often as it has to now, and limit the President how many trips he can take a year
    Please be nice and show us your colors now

  148. charles bryson says:

    Rightfully or wrongly monies going into the VA were not increased to care for the physical and mentally injured service members. The VA was already overwhelmed with the vets making claims from previous wars, military actions , et cetera. The GI Bill had been modified so drastically by those with those neo cons that kept saying " Support the troops" while challenging any attempts to provide any support other than nationalism.

    It's not President Obama that is offering those proposals as those that offer such notions.. It's easy to cast blames on others. It's the public that has allowed such things to happen… It's us that don't vice loud and continuos demands that the wrongs be righted. We refuse to to inquire and research what's been offered. We too readily accept what sounds right because we are too lazy to do any research, any reading, It's someone elses responsibility to tell us what's right and what's wrong… We truly have become to depend on others and not ourselves…

  149. Leave the military retirement alone!!!! If our "representatives" want to set an example – how about you cut your own pay and stop voting for your own pay raises every year!!! We put our lives on the line every day so you can sit in those cushy chairs and think that you are making a difference. Vets – I see that our "elected officials" live by the leadership style of "do as I say, not as I do"; so lead by example is too difficult for them to comprehend.
    To Patrick – If you were not such a sub-standard Marine, you may understand what everyone else is saying.

  150. Why should the military give up 20 year retiment and tricare when the senate and congress get full retirement after 4 years and don’t risk their lives to get it, reform their retirement, medical and dental plans to make them equitable with the military systems them talk about the military retirement plan. God bless America and our GI’S that give freely to protect us all and keep us free.

  151. Enlisted in 1947 with promise that I would receive free medical and dental. It was put up to Congress What happened?. I say do not mess with retirement system.

  152. Eleanor Cheesman says:

    I agree with you, too! I have 3 sons who served in Army, 2 of them retired(one has 22 yrs, the other 26 yrs.) & my husband who has 21 yrs. + 7 mos. in Army, 3 tours in Vietnam. I thank you ALL for your service!

  153. Old Sundowner says:

    We need to have a complete overhaul of the military manpower management system. What we have is an old outdated system from before WW II that has been patched up with Congressional created band-aid fixes, most of which did little to repair the real problems. There are many problems with retention, compensation, promotion, etc. that are factors in the retirement system. It will continue to be difficult to create a fair retirement system without correcting many of these other factors. Unfortunately, any possibility to do this without Congress “messing it up” would be very unlikely.

  154. This program would be just like Social Security. They will use the money to blow on other things till the Government cant pay retirement. Soldiers work at least double the hours that most any civilian works and deserve to get their retirement as soon as they retire. If they are going to do this the Military should go to 8 hr work shifts as civilians do. I say cut Government. That is what we need less of. That would save Billions of wasted dollars on people that get paid, talk alot and get paid some more.

  155. Always a Sailor says:

    Extract from what I sent last night –

    To the National Committee on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, on your plan to gut the military retirement system,

    It is in my opinion wrong to gut the retirement system for those who put themselves at the complete disposal of the government for 20 years. Servicemen agree to serve during that entire time where called, including participation in wars with which they might not agree, being shot at by people trying to prevent them from ever drawing a retirement. You can't seriously believe that as many high-quality people will stay for what, in the early days, seems like a 20-year eternity, when they will be no better off financially at the end of it than if they had held a series of civilian jobs for 20 years and contributed to a 401(k).

    • Always a Sailor says:

      Part 2 of 3 from the message…

      I urge you to leave military retirement as the level of recognition that it is today. I question whether most who deride it have any concept of how hellish military often is, and imagine that they see servicemen as getting something undeserved. These men and women deserve our gratitude for putting everything on the line for 20 to 30 years in a row. How many 20-year periods have our leaders led us through without sending the brave off to die? Aren't the odds quite excellent that no serviceman or woman will ever serve 20 years without the likelihood of spending time in a combat zone? For the flexibility of that 20-year lease on their lives, we owe these willing servicemen and women a decent, stable retirement.

      • Always a Sailor says:

        Part 3 of 3 (I was on a roll…)

        Want a reason to reduce the force to cut cost? Find leaders who are statesmen, who can put the United States of America into our former position of power through diplomacy that is backed up by a powerful and decisive military with no orders from capitol hill but to win the war and come home! We appear to have lost the ability to sway world opinion any other way than by dropping in a few hundred thousand troops. We've had statesmen in the past from both sides of the aisle; Roosevelt, Kennedy and Reagan come to mind from recent history. We're looking for a few more.

  156. United States Senator Pete Domenici (R-NM) is a known sufferer of Frontotemporal lobar degeneration (FTLD), and the illness is the main reason behind his October 4, 2007 announcement of retirement at the end of his term. (Wikipedia)

    So here we have a guy who is basically losing his concious thought process, deciding on the future of the military's retirement system. Well done congress, only the country's best and brightest.

  157. david e. pankratz says:

    I agree with all of these reports they should cut there pay and there retierment benefits and see how they like it. plus 90% of them has never ever worn a uniform of any kind. but yet they have the nerve to try and mess with our payand benefits. D.E.P..

  158. Ray Scaletti says:

    Why are wanting to cut the retirement pay of someone who is definding their rights to perform their stupid acts. Cut off the aid to some of the countries who think we are the enemy. This panel should clean up thier own house before looking at the defenders of thier right to make these dumb cuts. They should cut their own retirement and benifits before taking on ours. I have yet to find someone who is fair and honest in the government that we have in Washington now. I guess my COLA went to bail out some rich guy who helped get these so called elected officials in office. Cut my pay loose my vote!!!

  159. Lets make this short and sweet, a plan for reduction in the country's debt can be as follows:
    1. Immediately Cease ALL Federal Political retirement programs, including medical benefits.
    2. Cease paying Civil Service Employees annual "Locality Pay".
    2. Immediately Cease ALL State Political retirement programs down to the town level.
    3. Make all young people serve a manditory 2 year service to the country right after High School, no exceptions.

    Lets start with that. SHORT & SWEET!
    CEC

  160. UASF MSgt Ret says:

    Maybe it's time to overhaul the retirement/health benefits our elected officials receive. Retire after one enlistment with benefits, sounds good to me. Give that to all government employees, what the heck, give it to any one that has worked.

  161. Retired USNR - E8 says:

    How come senators and congressmen get a retirement after serving just 4 years but it takes 20 years for a military person. How does that happen?

  162. Once again the idiots of panels don't think things through. What vet would want to stay in 20 years and subject themselves to extended deployments, unbearable conditions and horrific stress and not be able to collect retirement until age 57. That would mean when they got out at 20 years they would have almost another 20 years before being able to reap any type of benefit from the government. Why not start cutting benefits from these "brood mares" that continue to have children out of wedlock and all the benefits that these lazy citizens are given automatically because they refuse to work! Take those savings and direct it to the military. Leave the military alone!!!

    • Look at the Reserves, they are "in" for 20 years, subject themselves to extended deployments, unbearable conditions & horrific stress & they cant collect until 20. Hmmm, are they more dedicated? Do they do it for love of country & selfless service? They certainly dont do it for the money & retirement like you obviously do. I am not saying that your motivations are not valid. Everyone chooses to serve for their own reasons. I am just trying to point out that although AD disparages RC, they could learn a lot from their sense of Duty, Honor & Country.

      • So as you are serving your country for 20 years while in the reserve, what are you doing while not on an active duty status? I bet you are working on a job that provides some type of retirement while active duty are not. I do not question patriotism but instead that by being on active duty for the 20 years you give up a lot. I do admit that the main motivation for me joining up at 18 was for the retirement. But the longer I stayed in and older I got, the priorities changed and it turned to serving my country. Basically what is happening is a group of liberal minded people are trying to change something that works but want to keep intact the programs that waste more money and serve little purpose.

  163. This proposal will effect new recruits…It doesnt effect those already in. Instead of taking reserve troops up to the same retirement as AD, they are moving AD close to the same realm as RC. I dont see an issue with it. If you count my AD days, keeping in mind I am seldom on orders during a holiday, over a weekend, and never on a DONSA, (except when mobbed/deployed) & count an AD Soldiers days, keeping in mind they usually dont work weekends, holidays, DONSAs & get 30 days of leave per year, I have worked VERY close to the same amount of days as a 20 year AD Soldier. They get to draw retirement 20 years earlier than me. This plan should only effect new enlistees…not those of you already serving. But, as so many AD Soldiers have said to me when I point out the disparity…"Suck it up!"

    • MSG Martin you must be smoking some very strong herb. How in the world do you figure you worked as many days being in the reserve as a person does on active duty? You must not realize that in the Navy they have this thing called "duty". On a ship that means you are confined to the ship for 24 hours. Out at sea you don't just work an eight hour day and that's it. You work until the job is done whether it be 12 hours or 18 hours. After that we didn't have the luxury of going home to family as you did on your weekend warrior battle. Try six months out at sea with no, zero, nada days off! Bet your opinion would be different.

  164. We need to revamp the Retirement plan for Congress and the Other moron sin Washington. Fix that and we would have money left.

  165. Vote. Do it with experience in mind, yours and the politicians. Be mindful of the candidates record history on behalf of the military, Did he get on a committee or panel to help us or hurt us, look at his track record. Even though the military is a minority in the political arena, we still have a voice from around the world active duty and retirees. You don't have to be reitred for the politicians to get one over on you, this I know from experience. The Constitution of the United States, which you swore to defend when you inducted or volunteered, is located in the Nations Capital, in a vaulted room, shielded in bullet proof glass thats vacuumed to prevent its destruction from the elements, is being run through the National political shredder, bit by bit, day by day. I cannot say that I feel sorry for those of us here and now that don't take the law into effect and stop voting for elected politicians who are destroying the miliary community by taking away their rights and priviledges. Only the ones past who were drafted and died and the ones who volunteered and died. Fortunately, they took their benefits to the grave with them. Lets fight to keep and use ours while we're still alive and able.

  166. Just because a couple of RINO repubics sit on this god-foresaken panel does NOT allow credit to be given as Bi-Partisan. THIS IS PROGRESSIVE APPEASEMENT partisanship at its core.

  167. barry apple says:

    If you screw w/the retirement plan at least allow miltary to retire after 15 yrs svc/ 10 yrs is too short. I did 21 yrs,(ARMY) true it felt like forever to get there but if the age requirement had not done me in, I would still be content to still be going to drills/ training, the comadreship you achive in the miltary lasts with you forever.

  168. I have 19 years active duty, but I am smart enough to realize that our gov is broke and headed for financial collapse. No amount of whining about the new retirement proposals will stop the inevitable end to all retirement benefits. Sorry, but this is a fact.

  169. Its also bad for us that have retired in the last two years while other companies allot a COLA in life like those filing for retirement social security we can't get COLA's but let me have left private business they walk away with millions in pensions/ no COLA reduction for them. Wonder how many of these politicains trying to cut these svcs/ yrs needed in have ever served a day in the miltary, answer proably O DAYS

  170. I am a soldier that has done EVERYTHING the army has asked above & beyond the call of duty. I agree with the previous blogger..cut gov’t!! Just as the coined phrase states “we domore before 9am, than most people do all day” is true. For every one day in uniform, deployment, & training etc. Is 2-3 days of civilian life. There is no way the system overhaul is for the greater good..it only seems to screw the men & women in arms. Why don’t these jack balls talk 2 THE SERVICEMEMBERS get our opinion. Also, stop aying these new recruits huge bonuses before they serve a single day in the service. How do you reward unproven performance? Let’s have these politicians give up their salary because their job performance sucks.

  171. I hope Glen Beck and/or Bill O'Reilly hears of this issue and comes to our rescue. I just retired after 22 years and I'll tell you, NO ONE would stay in for that long without current retirement benefits. This will weaken the military beyond repair as we would no longer have experienced personnel in the high ranking positions who make the recommendations and decisions.

  172. Proud Retiree says:

    Why dont they reform congressman retirment!!!

    They receive alot more than the military does for alot less and not as dangerous work!!!

  173. JUSTASUGGESTION says:

    When I retired in 1970 after 20 years in the USAF, my retirement pay was $500 a month. Now it is $2,500 which means that it has barely kept up with inflation. Fortunately, after retiring from the AF, I worked in my own business for 30 years and am now retired from that. We have to do something to reduce the expenses of the Federal Government. Here is one possibility. Keep the 20 year retirement but do not pay cost-of -living adjustments until age 60, then increase the retirement pay to the amount it would have been if the COLA had been made. We all work somewhere after the military and those salaries/income keep up with inflation until about age 60.

  174. I am currently active duty over 20 yrs and I am currently fighting to stay in to finish my time. We have a continuation board where a panel says weather or not we can stay in, its not easy. Seems that when the economy crashed, everyone looked to the military for a job. Funny ain't it?? Now, those some of those folks are getting out and using the POST 911 GI Bill get an education. Weird huh? Whiners?? We aren't whining…we are just speaking our minds. Ever been on a 9 month deployment, setting off the coast of some country that you really don't want to visit and not get to step on land for the entire time you're setting there? I bet you all love your weekends with your families, vacations, your normal lives, huh?? Leave the Military alone. We joined to serve this great country and we would appreciate it if more folks just said thank you or job well done! To all the Military personnel…THANK YOU…..JOB WELL DONE….WELCOME HOME……..STAY SAFE!!!!!

  175. Why is it we never hear of congress considering a freeze or cut in their OWN pay or an overhaul in their retirement plan when the budget needs crunching? When was the last time they didn't receive an increase in their pay? I believe they have only to serve ONE term to receive retirement pay, and that pay is substantially more than the majority of the military retirees! And I dare say that what our military members (and their families–I speak from experience as a spouse of a 24-yr AF retiree) go through to serve their country takes a far greater toll on them physically, emotionally, and financially than any member of the senate or house have experienced during their service. I say they need to start a little closer to home with cuts before picking on the military (yet again) to save some money.

  176. Jerome Moody says:

    I think a better way to save money is stop these foolish wars everywhere. Reduce the size of the military. Recompute the retirement of Congress , the Senate, and the
    President.

  177. Gerald Leavell says:

    WELL,IT NEVER CEASES TO AMZE ME HOW THEY CAN TALK ABOUT DEBT REDUCTION RIGHT AFTER VOTING THEMSELVES A PAY RAISE, NOT TO MENTION THE RETIREMENT PLAN AND HEALTH CARE FOR LIFE THESE YAHOOS GET.
    MMCS, RETIRED

  178. I don't think it's such a bad idea either i could retire now instead of another 1 or 2 deployments, i see so many lifers E7 – E9 who haven't even deployed, and stay state side there whole career. And only care about their career/retirement.

  179. it is time that the polticans take a cut instead of giving themselves raises or letting them retire after one trem in office and contuine to get the same pay as all the rest along with there spouse who will there pay the same amount as they were getting CUT CONGRESS PAY

  180. cynicalotto says:

    Obama off to a billion dollar vacation US sends 100, Million to Lebanon Amy.
    Us gives Palestine millions of dollars.
    With news like this, the Obama Administration will have to cut senior citizens and the military pay

  181. if they want to over haul our military retirement lets start with our congresmen and senetors. our give us the same benifits they have . our congressmen and senator should lead by exsample . they are all a bunch of weasle dicks

  182. Ken Huckabee says:

    Look at it this way — If congress screws with military retirement and retirees, maybe we would all qualify for the same inflated benefits that the never employed, baby making factories are drawing. And don't forget the number of illegal immigrants who are living high on the hog with OUR MONEY rather than being deported back to their home countries. I have been retired (CPO, USN) since 1974 and figure I am still behind in the financial curve.

  183. It as if some one not living up to there promises to take care the people.

  184. paul rivera says:

    Our career military serve at risk as do police and firemen in the civilian sector. They are all equally entitled to retirement benefits after 20 or more years of putting their lives on the line.. Why not revamp the politicians retirement system..sure way to save money!!

  185. Chuck Gillespie says:

    Keep balancing the budger on the backs of the true patriots of this country and soon you'll have to boot up and fight the wars yourselves.

  186. There's a bright side to everything. Go ahead, ,make adjustments. The all volunteer force dissolves and the DRAFT returns. This time YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS get to join the fun – no exemptions for the fat cats. Of course, the old policy of not damaging those with "Political Influence" can't be sidestepped. However, just watching some Politician's kid get through boot camp would be hilarious. I suppose I'd tell the Politicos be careful what you wish for – it's YOUR kid that might get free world travel next time.

  187. There’s a sound reason that retirement after 20 years was instituted in our Military Forces! Age! After age 40 it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain that sharp edge needed to defend the nation! Much like our professional athletes, eyesght, muscles, and general overall condition deteriorates rapidly after 40. The policy does not make you retire as many find that they are in excellent condition up to the mandatory retirement age of 60! The policy is meant to keep the best possible troop readiness available. The intent of collecting retirement after 20 is not to make the retiree rich, but give that service member an opportunity to train and find a job in civilian life which they can do to be a productive member of civil society. After all, service to ones country eliminates the advantage civilians have for that 20 years by obtaining skills and education used in the civilian job market while the service member is on duty! The military retiree is at a distinct disadvantage when it come to employment in the private sector. I will admit though, that there are specific military skills which have a distinct advantage over others in the over 40 job market specifically managers and pilots. These are however a minority of the retirees, most vets have trouble securing good jobs in their post retirement years. The nation is indebted to its military and anyone who proposes changes to the present system needs to look at the entire picture of military life and compensation. Our country would not exist without its warfighters but I bet we could get along with a lot fewer members in congress!

  188. So once again they play their games. Well remember this and them come election time.

    Wildman, retired from U.S.A.F.

  189. joe us army retired says:

    When will we be able to get those rotten dirty no good politicians from destroying our nation! They want to break up everything and are narrow mindlly motivated by their religious (dems/reps) political doctrines! You know the congress always makes sure that they get a raise every year! But, no! our warriors who defend our nation, don't deserve any considerations!

  190. William Elwood says:

    Before changing the military retirement system, Congress needs to change their's first. Right now, you spend one term in the Senate and you get your full salary for the rest of your life. Not a percentage.

    After 28 years in the Navy, I earned every cent of the retirement I receive, as d my 3 brothers, who are retired Navy as well.

  191. John Denton MMC(SW) says:

    Once again it's the military and military retired who must sacrifice. let me tell you that when I draw my check each month and before I was aged 60 all I was drawing was the overtime I was not paid while on active duty. Not very many of those knot heads in D.C. Know what a 24,36 or even at times a72 hour work day is like! Let alone to have lead fly at thier ass!
    Just an old retired MMC.

  192. Balance the budget starting with the executive branch of our government. Let's see the budget cuts start from the top where the rich get richer. All those freebies and kickbacks need to go away for our elected officials and setup a retirement plan similar to the one currently under consideration by the Blue Ribbon Panel. Our economic situation today is not of our making; it has happened over a number of years under the fat cat politicians and the governments wasteful spending. Whatever decision is made there should be a grandfather clause in it so it doesn't affect anyones cuurent retirement.

  193. I freaking hate these politicians. With all the billions we piss away to private & public contractors/corporations for services in R & D of our military toys, it really burns me up when instead of paring back these kinds of contracts, they'd rather cut the benefits of the current & retired servicemen and their family who are probably scraping by on about $1,000 to1,500 a month pension while unemployed in this economic disaster we're in. We outspend 27 other 1st World Countries COMBINED on our military. And these clowns are going to try and convince me that its the personnel benefits that need to be cut???? Good luck with that!

  194. Military personnel put too much on the line to be RAPED by the very people who they sign-up to defend and protect. We are willing to die for this county, and many do, only to be short changed by the very government that we die for…US. government. Then the "Blue Ribbon Panel" should be forced to carry their asses to the "Combat Zones", and only then might they be qualified to determine our fate when it come to military retirement. They can go straight to HELL!!!

  195. Ugly Angel says:

    Gosh…I can't get over the enthusiasm for this so-called "overhaul of the retirement system." This is nothing more than another "screw the military" scheme. The idea that military professionals serve because of love of country is wearing very thin. Try this on for size. Leave the system the way it is. Do what was promised when we signed up (and that includes free medical for us and our families….) And if something needs overhauling, how about the perks congress receives. That should make everybody feel good!!

  196. Hey Obama, take your presidential panel and shove it up your ass you cluless bastard!! You're not fit to be a girl scout leader let alone commander in chief!

  197. They are out of their minds (and at their wits end) if they think the Veterans of our Great Country will stand for this lame brained course of action. What next? We need to rotate the inventory in Washington with Veterans. We need to stop giving money to countrys that don't give a damn about us. We need to make Congress and Senate salaries zero, and only those worth serving will agree to serve the people for free. You cannot fix debt by borrowing against other proven programs. If this program passes, I would imagine you will see a mass exodus from the all-volunteer military. Damn straight the idiots that thought up this idea need to serve a few days in a soldier's shoes! We all need to write our Congress representative and tell them not to vote for these changes to our retirement/pension plans.

  198. abstactcontext says:

    Maybe if Congress would cut their pay & retirement the military (who do the real work) wouldn't have too!!!

  199. For all of you in the Military who voted for Oboma and who are now complaining; your getting exactly what you voted for! You people have short memories, the DEMS do not and have not supported the Military. Do you remember Clinton? He and his dead beat old lady despised the Military.
    So, pull up your big boy pants and keep marching, you wanted him, you got him, the socialist that he is.

  200. If it happens to pass, the Volunteer force for Military applicants will dwindle. Why should we get the same retirement as corporate. ( no offense to corporate) Do they risk the lives everyday down range? I think not. Cut the politicians pay and keep the military STRONG!

  201. Retired Marine says:

    I spent 3 years as an enlisted Marine, then another 18 as a Marine Officer. Most of the time I was not in a combat situation, but some of it was (I was lucky and never got hit, but people died and were wounded around me). I then retired from a civilian job after another 20 years. For those who have never served in the armed forces, they must know that military and civilian life is VERY different. That is why the retirement plan for the military is more beneficial. In civilian life, you can quit anytime, do not have to stand watches or guard duty, be away from your loved ones and family for long periods of time, work at a job that at times is dangerous and much more stressful than a civilian job, when you travel you get better coverage of expenses, stay in nicer places. As a civilian you don't have to pass annual physical fitness tests, keep your weight down, go through stressful basic training (or boot camp), etc. etc.
    The military has a very rigid screening process for health and fitness – some civilians would not be able to cope with the physical and mental requirements of military life. The military requires young and physically fit people. Average age of those who finally retire is mid forties. Top Generals and Admirals usually go out at early 50s. Compare all this to civilian life. THAT is why the military retirement system is different, costs the US more, and should NOT be changed. You can dumb-down the moral code of the nation through socialistic action, but to dumb-down the military system will erode and eventually cause the decline and fall of the United States.

  202. I have a good suggestion for Washington. Lets abolish the Military pay and retirement system altogether and put all military personnel into the Federal Employee System, That way every time federal employees get a pay raise all military personnel would also. Better Yet let’s put all military personnel into the Federal or State Police system. Let’s see here in Calif. A new police recruit right out of training has a starting pay of $60,000.00 per year plus benefits this is what an Airman 3rd class would make or a buck private. A Captain would make about 150,000.00 per year. After all what is the difference? Fighting bad guys in the USA or in the Middle East or Asia or wherever.

  203. So what they are saying is that you will get the same benefits as a GS employee. You'll put into the TSP and be able to retire and draw pay after 60. However, the GS employee doesn't have to rotate every 2-3 years, dragging his/her family from place to place, let alone going into harms way and being away from said family for months on end. Also, they are not saying what happens with your TRICARE and TRICARE for Life. Does that also go away and you now have the Mail Handlers option, which you will have to pay for. What's the incentive for putting yourself in harms way; possibly losing a limb or more? If they go through with this, will they then get rid of educational benefits; space-A travel, and all the other benefits we've worked so hard for. If they do that, look for a return to the draft with only two year commitments and no one left who will have the skillset to do the job.

  204. i would never join any military service under these proposals , if they really won't troop reductions this is a sure fire way too get it done . if this does go through and pass maybe the political class of dumb asses will have to roll up their selves and march off to fight and get the same benefits that they propose for the rest of us because their would not be anyone else willing to go serve under the lying turncoats that hold office today maybe Harry Reid can send all the illegals that he's trying to legalize under the dream act. but for all of us that have served and retired just to find that our benefits are being chipped away this is a very bad dream .

  205. Retired SCPO says:

    Military need to overhaul manpower manning. When I joined we had 1 officer per 50+ enlisted now we are down to one officer per 7 enlisted. Too top heavy! It is the senior enlisted that makes the military move forward not the officers… A study was completed the showed the military could cut officers by 25%! Cutting the high end of the over stacked rank structure would save us billions – especially since an officer just has to serve to get promoted and enlistred has to perform to stay in and defend our great country!

    • Navy Chief says:

      You got that right. Someone once told me that there used to be one Admiral for every 130 ships; now it's one Admiral for every ship in the Navy

  206. I have been in for 20 years and probably this change will not affect me as much. I have been deployed 3 times in the last 9 years and have to say that the military is a huge institution that requires changes in pay and management. Today, we the military, get paid very well and most of us deserve their pay. Others have milked the system for years. It is here where a balance is needed. I propose to maybe change (+-) pay/retiment benefits based on a very well define criteria that involves MOS, BRANCH and job assignments. Do I think that an infantry soldier should retire after 20 years? Absolutely. is it the same for a personnel management specialist? No!. Let's look at assignments, time in service, and real contributions to the country. I don't know about most of you here but I am in the Army because I love it, I get compensated well and as a way to give something backl to a country that received me as an immigrant. So if we need to sacrifice a little bit of pay to for a more prosperous nation, I am willing. If we don't set the example, who will?

  207. I have a recommendation, let’s set up a military retiree panel to revise / replace all the government panels trying to take money out of the pockets of retirees who have served this country in order to pay for their perks.

    • I like your idea about having a military panel, how about the only ones in congress and senate who get to vote ate the ones who served and retired from any branch of the military service! They are the ones who should know better! Shouldn’t our elected officials have to serve at least 10 years to draw a pension at 60 years of age, like they are preposing for our military members? Lets cut their pay and travel expenses, their healthcare coverage, their pensions and see the savings from that, rather than take more from the people who are actually defending our nation!!

    • Billy Gibson says:

      You hit the nail on the head this time . A Blue Ribbon Panel ????? . Funny how they can come up with places that keep them out of the lime light , I was stationed in France when they appointed Ralph Nader to a panel to find places to cut spending , When he came to NATO HQ,S , You should have seen all of the Civ Gov workers looking very busy . It is not the military that they should be looking at but the Gov Civ s , It is time to look for a Very good Military Person To Throw His or Her Hat in the Ring , and Run For President .

  208. Sharon Long says:

    When the idiots on Capitol Hill volunteer to put on a uniform and serve like all other military personell and volunteer to have their pay and benefits fall under the same guidelines as all military do, then they may have the right to start looking at military pay as a way to “cut the deficit.” Until then, they need to look at their own pay, benefits and retirement requirements. My son is a Marine, wounded, living on $512 per month, so lives with me to be able to stay off the streets and not become another statistic of “homeless vet” status. When those “fat cats” – on Capitol Hill – NOT on Wall Street, start cutting their pay I say HANDS OFF THE MILITARY PAY – what little they get!

  209. Bring back the draft, andstart with the Pres., VP, all Sen, and Cong, then all college Students, Felons.

  210. Repub­li­can Sen. Pete Domenici …. not one day in the military but in charge of a panel that has to do with the military. WTF is wrong with these idiotic people??

  211. John Schultz says:

    Instead of messing with military retirement why cant the politicians in Congress and the Senate take a pay cut. Most have millions in their accounts from their Government pay as well as from other business's they work at. It is not fair that the lower class, retires, etc have to make the sacrifices while politicians sit comfortably in their million dollar homes. I spent 20 years in the military and have earned every cent I get. I get around $1100.00 a month in retirement pay and with the way the economy is today that is the only thing keeping me off the streets. If they take that away and say I have to wait until I am 60 I might as well put a gun to my head right now. I have lost faith in our Government as it does not seem to matter if you are Republican or Democrat they are all corrupt. Find another way like stop sending aid to other countries and such. Once we get back on our feet THEN we can worry about helping others.

    • Retired USAF says:

      Too much of everything is wasted on Public Image
      You hit the nail on the head in taking care of our own first. Our own are dying of starvation, yet nightly on television, we are shown clips of starving children overseas and asked for donations. Where are the clips showing me how I can help my neighbor? Where are the ads telling me how I can help the people in need that I see daily about me? Faces I recognize, real life struggles I see.
      No, continue to turn a blind eye on them and let's cure the rest of the world, strangers giving aid to strangers (and many of that aid never reaches those whom it was meant for).
      After all, it about that Public Image

  212. Retired Marine says:

    I spent 3 years as an enlisted Marine, then another 18 as a Marine Officer. Most of the time I was not in a combat situation, but some of it was (I was lucky and never got hit, but people died and were wounded around me). I then retired from a civilian job after another 20 years. For those who have never served in the armed forces, they must know that military and civilian life is VERY different. That is why the retirement plan for the military is more beneficial. In civilian life, you can quit anytime, do not have to stand watches or guard duty, be away from your loved ones and family for long periods of time, work at a job that at times is dangerous and much more stressful than a civilian job, when you travel you get better coverage of expenses, stay in nicer places. As a civilian you don't have to pass annual physical fitness tests, keep your weight down, go through stressful basic training (or boot camp), etc. etc.

  213. I agree, they don't know what they are doing. They've never been there and been separated from family. They should take the money from their yearly raises that they give themselves. They could get by without the "COLA" raise like the rest of us.

  214. Then theres Alice Rivlin…an ancient female that's so old she's set in her ways. No military background here either. Just like the other professional politicians…she needs to be booted out. Go away Alice, go away. We don't care where…just go away.

  215. abstactcontext says:

    Maybe if Congress would cut their pay & retirement; the military (who do the real work) wouldn't have too!!!

    Not to mention the fact that those who have served already 20 yrs are being messed over left & right by new policies trying to make it more difficult to make rank and fear their retirement options they have been working hard towards for 20 yrs. Many in the top ranks are looking down a barrel at high yr ten yr even though their career fields are undermanned, and they are doing the jobs of multiple people. Yet lower ranks are being promoted way before they have the leadership & career knowledge skills to do their job properly.

    PT requirements are absolutely ridiculous and do not take into consideration body type, size or mass. If you are over 6' and can your max pushups/situps & can run faster than most why is your waist an issue. I know guys with 40 ” waists and less than 10% body fat!!!!

    Although I agree in educational advancement, forced education to enlisted members who get no additional compensation when they have the same education as their officer counterparts is not fair either.

    Not to mention the fact that besides being overworked; between educational requirements, physical fitness routines, volunteer requirements little time is left to breath. Forget a social life & if you have a family they better not expect you to be more than an idea.

    You know what we will be left with. A bunch of young unskilled (in leadership & job knowledge), immature, members that don't know which end is up and no one to lead them properly!!

    All this leads to more ways to force GOOD people out before they should be. All to save a little money.

    If you REALLY want to cut the budget, stop spending so much money on other countries, cut some of the space program budget, stop funding ludicrous scientific programs and make congress accountable to someone so they stop giving themselves raises & exuberant retirement plans.

  216. What kind of idiots would even consider this as a good idea? Oh yeah, the idiots who never served! Vote 'em out!

  217. Let’s take a country that has been fighting a war for the last 9 years and has tallied thousands of wounded vets that have willingly sacrificed there way of life and show them how much we care by cutting retirement benefits, issuing a freeze on pay, and increasing the amount of money the service member has to pay out for shared Tricare cost. Tricare which isn't any better then Medicare is already a slap in the face. Before we start cutting veterans benefits let’s look at the retirement benefits of our Congress, House of Representatives and President. Our military after serving 20 years gets 50% of their pay as retirement while our elected officials spend six years in office and collect a full paycheck the rest of their life. If you want to look at saving money I think we should start there.

  218. This would be unfortunate. I know as a servicemember with 14.5 years of service in, I would retire the minute they made the change. The retirement plan is the ONLY thing keeping me on active duty. I can imagine I am not the only one who feels this way. I beleive there would be a flood of folks retiring to the point that the DoD would have to inact stoploss.

  219. Irving Cobb says:

    Why is all ways the people at the bottom of the pole that get CUTT? I would like to see the people in the military have an say on how we can save money.
    I am talking about people who are doing the work, ie; E-5"s thru, E-8.
    I will give part of my pay if I could cut some of the waste I see every day . I am retired Air Force (E-6)

  220. If anyone’s retirement system needs to be overhauled, it’s Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  221. True. Well said.

  222. Cut the personnel in Congress pay and that would eliminate the need to cut military retirees pay. They get retirement for just serving two or four years, that is ridiculous.

  223. steve johnson says:

    Why is it that or officials always try to down size the pay of the military? It is us ( our military ) that goes were they send us to help self serve some of their benifits. We go wether we like it or not It is our duty. So why should we still get the shaft. We get it in the military , we dont need it now. Lets make them start giving up their benifits and pay. Lets reform the House and Congress Let them go through pay cuts health reform. The last I knew was they wanted the job, to speek for us , so how can they vote themselfs raises and more benifits, while we get less.The job of an Official is suppose to make less then the average person in this country not the most. I think it is time for them to take a hard look at their jobs, and make cuts there first then maybe start cuts elsewere.

  224. What is it that congressmen and women get for retirement after serving only one term and at what age does it start? My retirement was based only on my base pay. It seems like we need a look at their retirement system first.

  225. RONAL BIGELOW says:

    NOW I AM CERTIAN THAT THE PROBLEM THAT THEY SEE IS THAT THEY MAY NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO KEEP THEIR PAY COMING

  226. Plain and simple, the proposals are all coming from our friends the Republicans. I am just observing fact here.

    Last I checked, most of us continue to show them loyalty, but by my count they have bent us over more than any political group, now it seems they are back to "suprise" relation us once again.

    Time to think a little harder about how we, as veterans, ally ourselves politically? I know I will.

    • This is a bi-partisan committee. That means the recommendations are coming for Republicans and Dumbocrats. If you care to check your history everytime the Dumbocrats are in power the attack the military. Please get your facts straight. I am a retired 26 year decorated veteran and when it comes to things for the military look to the republicans. Remember what Carter and Clinton did for the military? Those are the dumbocrate friends you speak of.

  227. patrick, I served 24 yrs and fought in both gulf wars. was poisoned by the anthrax innoculations and am now 100% disabled but the VA says it's NOT service connected. i take over 20 medicines each day and am on oxygen but I would do it all over again because I love these UNITED STATES !! IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY HERE…GO JOIN THE RAG HEADS SO A REAL MARINE CAN PUT A BULLET IN YOUR HEAD AND PUT YOU OUT OF YOUR MISERY !!!

  228. I say cut senators and congressmens pay first and cut htier ability to retire with one term in office, then cut many of the expensive military programs we dont need, bring our boys home from iraq and afganistan, and korea, japan, germany, uk,ect, then see what our expenses look like. We spend as much or more on defense as the rest of the world combined, everybody sees how hard it has been to subdue iraq and afganistan by a super power, nobody could invade us for at least 15 to 20 years and expect to win, dont stop reasearch, but stop expensive defense spending, not the military pay, everybody should get out of the military if they do this to military pay and nobody should join unless we are threatened by invasion! its not worth it!

  229. Where else but the military can a person work to protect the constitution, which in many cases does not apply to them and be on call 24/7 for twenty plus years and get lip service promises of benefits. We were not privileged to take several multi-week recesses as does the congress? It should be mentioned also that we were required to uproot ourselves and families at the whim of our leaders and move to a new base or another country with no regard to our wants or needs. Some may call us whiners but are they willing to live like this for the duration of our military service?

  230. Well, Congress, why don't you take the time to have your panels add the number of lives that gave all. Starting from George Washington's time to present. These lives are the reason why we are free, and those that are fighting other countries battles right now. Nothing like telling are men and women in uniform, Give your life if that's what it takes to get the job done, however, don't ask for anything in return. If there was no military, then would there be a Congress? Without someone protecting your rights, you wouldn't have anything to protect. Would you?

  231. Gary Campbell says:

    This would be disastrous to our overall national security. The current retirement system is a primary reason we have a career military. The only way around an attractive retirement would be to pay a salary at least equal to with what an individual would make in the civilian sector. And keep in mind we are not talking about the 18 year old recruit out of high school, but middle aged career individuals, many with college degrees. Given 6 to 12 month deployments, 24 hour days, dangerous assignments, and the necessary discipline issues, not to mention an unbreakable contract, I doubt the US Government could afford a career force for any length of time. It already cost more to recruit one individual than anyone would like to admit. Just imagine what it would cost to keep them in. And believe me, without a qualified experienced career force, our national security would be in danger.

  232. Our Military pension,retirement and health care should not be cut or eliminated,these people put their life's on the line to keep us safe from harm.Why not cut the welfare program that is being used by people that bread like rabbits or won't go out and find a job,they live of our taxes.
    Our politians live high on the hog,why not do a pay cut there.
    __"God bless our soldiers."

  233. John billhimer says:

    History repeats it self and I don’t think it is a good idea for the pollitcions and bleeding hearts to piss off the active duty or retired MILITARY.

    OFF WITH THERE HEAD !!!!!!!! VIVA REVOLUTION

  234. You may think you have an enlistment problem now; change will bring you back to teh drawing board for better benefits for Brave American Freedom fighters. Hello! Do not forget why you enjoy a free democracy.

  235. This is an outrage and anybody in their right mind that doesnt think so, either has never served or couldn't hack it long enough to have invested valuable time in. I agree the ones making the decisions fall into those two catagories. Anybody who has served in any branch 20yrs or more has earned the right to a ritirement.

  236. thurston Lee says:

    This is all justy another bunch of bull shit from our Radical congressmen and senators. I say put all of the bastards in boot coma then send their sorry asses to Afganstan and let them see how the real world operates

  237. If you don't like non-vets revising your hard earned benefits then do something about it. RUN FOR OFFICE! It is not enough just to vote when less than 1% of Americans have served in the Armed Forces. If we leave it only to the wealthy to run for office then you can expect policy like this. You made a difference when you were in uniform. It is time to make a difference again. The next election is less than two years away. Get organized and let's put in some vets who care more about the country than themselves.

  238. Retirement at 10 years and draw when you're 62…interesting concept. As one poster put it, that could keep people on the books who might otherwise have gotten out at 4 or 6 years in order to get that retirement. But what about the ones who do stay until 20? Still not receive anything until what, 57? That does sound a lot like a typical GS job like Stephen pointed out. I joined in 1983 and I'm looking at retirement in less than 5 months. If I had to wait until age 57 (another 12 years from now) before I could draw anything, I feel there would have been no incentive to stay any longer than 10 years. I think we will lose a helluva lot more who would otherwise hang around after 10 years than we would entice to stay who would otherwise get out at 6. Maybe there's a middle ground here. Use the 10-year option to entice those who would get out in 6, then reward those who stay to 20 with the current plan.

  239. Cain't you people read between the lines, The republicans and George Bush deliberately got this country in our present situation in hopes of regaining full control in 2012. It's not Obama fault. Give this black man some respect, he' better than anybody out there. What would Palin and the Tea Party do for this country?

  240. The other aspect here that I don't like is the high-5 replacing the high-3. When I joined, high-3 was new and I didn't even realize that was the plan I fell under until the mid to late 1990s. What that does is erode your retirement pay by taking the average of the highest 3 years instead of your pay at the time of retirement. Say your highest number was (for the sake of illustration) 10, and you retire at 20 years (50% of base pay). Instead of taking 50% of 10, you now have to add add 8, 9, and 10, then divide by 3. You are now getting 50% of 9. If they pass the high-5 plan, you'll add 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, divide by 5, and you'll only get 50% of 8. In this extreme example, the retirement benefit has been cut by 20%.

  241. TSP is a good plan to augment retirement pay, but is 1 – not enough by itself to sustain a retiree, and 2 – can't be drawn until age 60 either. It probably could be enough to live on after 60 if recruits start contributing at the time of enlistment and the government matches funds (as they do in the federal civilian service). Again, two problems there – as an E-1 with a family to support, the last thing on my mind was setting money aside for the future (I had a hard enough time feeding my family and keeping gas in the car to get to work with). And for the governement to match the funds would require spending up front for each military member's retirement regardless whether he/she stayed to retirement. If they do a complete cost comparison I think they would find it more expensive to match funds for the entire military force rather than pay the full retirement of the small percentage that actually does hang around the full 20.

  242. It's not just the rich members of the senate and congress. A big percentage of Americans fill the same way the first thing they want to take back from is the Military. I feel like they should be working hard to find ways to give more to the people who volunteer to protect our country. Wow, The only time they should tinker with our benefits is to add something great to it. These politicians are not normal folks they go to DC and accept money under the table from every direction. They were filthy rich before they got there, thats how they got there. Most of them don't know the current price of gas becuase their driver fills the tank and rushes to pick them up from a cocktail party. They will stay there til their hair turns white and they will die in office. In most cases they won't even render the seat to their own son. Greed, it has destroyed our social security, threatens our constitution, has blown our government out of control and these people feel they don't really have any thing to wory about. They feel secure because they have money all accross our country and also in other countrys.

  243. Repub­li­can Sen. Pete Domenici and econ­o­mist Alice Rivlin, offered a detailed plan for over­haul­ing mil­i­tary retire­ment and TRICARE.

    1. Pharamaceuticail is BIG business- you retire but can't collect until 60-you pay out of pocket for everything, including your life which you once gave up in line of service.

    2. Pharmaceutical industry spends about $10bill or more a year on advertising and promotions, $1bill or more on research which is paid for by the government (us), which in turns its discoveries over to PRIVATE sector firms for marketing.

    3. you have a republican whos' image is "God and Country" usually selling us through a economst whose goal is PROFIT…yeah, bend over AGAIN.

  244. The only thing in the Constitution that the government is required to pay for is the protection of the United States of America so capitalism can survive and thrive. So if you have to start cutting start if with all the programs and cost the tax payers have been footing the bill for and you will have so much money that you won't have banks or places to invest it!

  245. HOMER LOYO says:

    TRY NOT TO FORGET WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO US COME ELECTION TIME, ESPECIALLY THE HEAD RACIST, OBAMA. HE IS SUCH A HYPOCRITE, COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE MILITARY. HE IS A COWARD, DIDN'T SERVE A DAY IN THE MILITARY. IF YOU VOTE FOR HIM AND THE POLITICIANS THAT ARE DOING THIS, THEN SHUT UP AND TAKE IT, DEAL WITH IT. FIND OUT WHO IS ON THE BLUE PANEL AND VOTE THEM OUT AND DO THE SAME TO THOSE THAT TRY IT AFTER THEM. BUT VOTE THEM OUT. DON'T FOREGET. REMEMBER IRAQ ANF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!!

    • TALKE ABOUT RACIST, U BETTER WORRY ABOUT THE LEADER OF THE SO CALL TEA PARTY, THAT MIGHT BE YOUR NEXT RACIST PRESIDENT, ASK THE AMERICAN INDIAN WHAT HAPPEN TO THEM.
      WELL, SO MUCH FOR TEA.

  246. It look like to me every time the Democrats, get in office the military is the first thing that need to be cut, then on the other hand as long as there is a war going on the Republicans can keep the big companies money rolling in and get a cut under the table deal. Look I one understand that something got to change in American the military that should be the last thing that get cut, as of today people don’t want the TSA to pat them down to make flying safe, but want to point fingers and blame when things don’t go right. North Korea has fired into South Korea so now what you still want to cut back the military retirement after all we are brave men and women that put our life on the line just so you politicians and your family members don’t after worry about your life time health coverage will ever get cut and you and your family can live to 100 years old and American will take care of you whether it’s 1 term or 20 terms. Now the panels are saying that the small percent of people that help protect our country should dead off early in life, next it will be unemployment checks will stop public schools will shut down. AMERCAIN LEAVE YOUR RETIREMENT MILITARY ALONE.

  247. Three_Bears says:

    As us usual some people in congress have to show they are doing something with their time, whiel the REST of us are out working

  248. Repugnuts are always talking "patriotism," and they are the ones who always want to screw the servicemembers. Repugnican'ts suck. 90% of them never served! Never had a bullet fired at them ! They should change their own retirement system!

  249. GMM1(SW) Ret says:

    I am so disgusted with the treatment of our Soldiers, Sailors and Marines under this regime that I have no words to describe it. Let them get off their fat asses and REALLY serve their country, as in UNIFORM and lets see how anxious they are to cut military retirement.

  250. This F-ing bull.Seriously.

    And the public/typical citizen could care less.Just what I've always wondered.Because it's all about a capitalistic economy.The civilian side wastes so much much,but that's okay.Your typical civilian doesn't do shit for this country,really,other than be teachers,which they complain about all the f-ing time about money,firemen & cops have great hours along with pay and they're stateside,etc.

    This is crap.we'll see when/if N.Korea starts some shit.This country will want/be begging us to do what they can't do.

    Maybe it would have been better if I would have been shot recently in Afghanistan.

    And I don't need no response to this, instead write to your damn senator,congressman,rep.

  251. Hey Dumbo, Obama is not proposing this, Domenici is. He's a (CONVENIENT PATRIOT) like most of the Repugnicant's. HIP-O-KRITS.

  252. If term limits were required and ONE YEAR ONTHE FRONT LINE IN COMBAT and $1 dollar a year for the HONOR of serving this great nation, their attitude might be adjusted to it's proper direction!!
    20 USN SPEC OPS.

  253. How about NOT giving the 5 million dollars to the MUSLIM memorial in NY!

  254. Jarhead2222 says:

    Everyone, I have known Patrick for 6 years. He was discharged from the Marines for stalking his ex girlfriend, and shoplifting. That is why he is bitter, I just thought everyone should know.

  255. Isn't this how the SS tax started??? It was supposed to be temporary for the military but it became permenant and now look, its BROKE!!!!

  256. I have said for a LONG time that they need to bring the full-time retirement in line with what they do to the guard and reservists – make them wait until they are age 60 to collect. My husband put 32 years in the Guard – so now we sit and wait till get gets to age 60 to begin to collect.

  257. SgtMajor 30 Yrs
    Michael you are right. Put congress men and women, Senators also,
    then ship them to South Korea, and see what is going on, with this
    administration hiding I think.

  258. Some years ago if an enlisted person accepted a promotion when he was nearing retirement he/she had to agree to remain on active duty for a couple more years. On the other hand, officers frequently received "promotions" just before their retirement date to boost their retirement pay. Has that changed?

    Also, at one time the US government promised lifetime medical care at military medical facilities to the member and his spouse if the service member stayed on active duty for at least twenty years. Then congress realized it would cost less if the promise was broken. Medical support has been reduced several times over the years. Actually the VA probably offers more support to folks who gave only a couple of years to active service.

    There may actually be better, more efficient ways to cut costs via management of military resources that are not at expense of the folks serving our country.

  259. out of all the payrolls they could cut they go after the people who still act like public serveants…the president make almost a million dollars a year and we pay for all of his travel and expences… why don't they look at political cut backs?

  260. Higgins, YN1 (Ret) says:

    The fat cats in Washington are at it again. They want to keep messing with our retirement, and could care less about how it will affect us. They have their retirement plans all set up for them, and they keep reducing our paychecks while increasing their own. I find all this information very dissapointing and typical of those who have, wanting to dictate to those who have not. As a former enlisted man, I can barely make it on the pittance I get from the military.

  261. Bamasailor says:

    Wiseowltoo, you don't seem too wise to me, I receive a retirement check for my twenty-five years too and I see that it is the responsibility of all retirees to protect the rights of future retirees since most are afraid to speak out fearing backlash before they can retire. Also the military is losing enough good folks everyday to civilian employers and our best and brightest leave by the dozens daily. We must do all we can or we will go back to the "good old days when judges used to tell convicts "go to jail or join the military".

  262. The President and his cronies, I mean Debt Panels, need to think this one through very carefully before they pull the pin on this grenade. There are just too many places to cut fat and other funds in a more practical and honorable way rather than TAKE IT from the military that have MORE than earned it. Try being shot at for a while and being away from your family for a year or two and scaring your babies when you finally come home because they do not know you.. Also, the harsh conditions one must live in while protecting our way of life. I personally went through four marriages while serving 22 years, then again, I was in Special Forces. If you are truly hell bent on taking it $$ from the military, at least have the decency to change the rules of the game before it is played. Let the new troops know what they are entitled to before they enlist, which then they probably won't. You will need to re-instate the draft. To change our earned retirement now would be disgraceful and a breach of contract. We were told we would receive 2.5% of our base pay for every year we served honorably after a minimum of 20 years service. God Bless America.

  263. Why would anyone stay in until 20 with these changes. You will need to be young enough so you are still in your prime to compete in the civilian world. No more lifers.

    If they want to treat the military more like the civilian world then start to pay OT, a real overseas bonus, etc

  264. Something has to be done to get a grip on the cost of retirement and health care. I served 20 years and think it is simply stupid to be paid for the rest of my life a good wage for no more service. I was paid well for my service and continue to make a good retirement. Sad, but something has to be done to keep our children from paying for the current system. All of us must continue to sacrifice for our country. First they should cut those that are not productive to society, then everything else has to be on the table.

    • Hey Stupid, you are not being PRODUCTIVE to your fellow retirees. We did not make the rules, we abided by them to earn our 2.5% retired pay and by damned I expect to get it.. Pres. Obamanation could give a shit about you, me or our country. He is a stinking Muslim who is trying to bust the USA financially, ie, if he wanted to help the deficit he would not have gone on his stupid excursion with 34 war ships, etc. at a cost of 200 million dollars per day. Maybe we can tie his greedy hands come January 2011.

  265. This is crazy those who sacificed alot for this country and what we get is a panel wanting to penalize us for serving. As you can see arepublican is leading the panel and he probably never served in and of the armed forces maybe wasn't qualified to join so he is pissed off at the veterans that are getting what the earned.

  266. Ironically, the same people who demand fiscal responsibilty in other entitement programs (pensions for teachers, state employees, congress, etc..) are the same ones who vehemently react when they have to share the load. People need to wake up and realize that every entitlement program is bankrupting this nation. EVERY program will have to be cut, changed, reduced…because we can't afford them going forward. We couldn't even afford them when they were put in place. Period.

  267. I see no problem with someone knowing the retirment rules PRIOR to enlisting and agreeing to them. What's wrong with serving 20yrs of AD service waiting until they are 57 to draw a pension. Future service members will dedicate "x" years to the defense of this nation. Yep, and "thank you" for your service. But "thank you" isn't enough though is it really? There are those that feel entitled to get a pension while you're still young and can work. Why? Why not wait until retirement age? I could understand if you CAN'T work as a result of military service. Then the nation should care for you and they put disability programs / VA programs that will support you to an extent and you can draw on them until retirement age. Besides, the National Guard and Reservists have been waiting until 60 (iwth some exceptions recently passed into law) for years. They serve 20+ years, to include multiple combat deployments and they don't get even get 50% at age 60, they get a percentage based on participation over their length of service.

  268. Those that never have served are always ready to throw the load on the backs of those that have.congress and senate have not done their jobs for the last 25 years!Don't forget they give themselves raises regularly and will have pensions and.medical coverage exceeding their working wages. IF there were no vets there would be NO America.KEEP YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF OUR RETIREMENT.Christ we can't even keep up with the cost of living!GOD BLESS AMERICA and vote all these SOBs out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  269. W4 Naval Officer says:

    I have been retired since 1985, and I am beyond 65 but who in their right mind would ask our Military members to change their future retirement benefits. The Yahoo's in office or on Blue Ribbon Panels haven't a clue the hardships and/or the positions of beng in "harms way" that we as military retirees know. Where were they when Vietnam and subsequent wars were being fought? Sitting in Washington knowing full-well that they would not have to go into harms way andir serve in the military. Yet they draw a retirement benefit greater than ours!!!!! I retired as a W4 and was and am proud of my service to my country but these yahoos are makeing it difficult to swallow their BS!!!!!

    Retired U.S. Navy W4 with 24 years of active service.

  270. If they want people to not retire before 60, then they also need to create the opportunity to work till 60 in the military. If you have to retire in your 40s because they do not want you to be around no more it cannot be your problem to cover up the hole.

  271. wait until 60 it will keep people from scamming you

  272. Leave it to a Senator who has never served a day in the service….no Senator….the buck dosen't stop at retirees'…..the buck should stop on the hill….stop giving yourselves 25% pay raises……leave the military alone…..we signed a contract upon entrance…..the government would take care of us if we gave them our twenty years…or more…..and yet all Congress to do is take, take take….the military is like an orphan child…..until you need us…..my suggestion…take your panel and look at congressional pay raises, foreign monetary support….they love it when we attack a country….because we always make it better than it was before…..get a clue senator….and leave the retirement/tricare system alone….we earned it and it's ours….

  273. You and two99 should hold hands and sing koombayah. Eight trillion in debt when he took office and now 13 trillion in debt. Yeah, we really should have kept the dumbycraps in office to spend us in oblivion. Go drink another cup of koolaid!

  274. Old AF retired guy says:

    Anthony-USMC has the answer. When they start palying games with the military's retirement, get to work on overhauling Congressional pay and allowances and their RETIREMENT program. Lets start by putting them under the Social Security retirement system.

  275. So if an individual has already served more than ten yrs, but less than twenty, and has already got out and pursued a civilian career–is this this new proposal going to be retroactive for those past service member who served 10-19 yrs?

  276. The carrot of the 20-year retirement is the only thing that kept me from getting out during my last two-years of service. Thanks to that retirement we didn't go bankrupt when I got laid off in July and the TRICARE program has allowed me to go into business for myself and not have to worry about health care costs. These are the two most important benefits for people who make the military a career. Screwing with them will have an adverse impact on our senior enlisted community and military readiness.

  277. Mike Boswell says:

    Wish they would revamp the program so those of us who served Guard or Reserve time and retired can get our retirement when we retire, instead of waiting until we are damn near to old to use it !

  278. William Green says:

    It is this simple:
    There will be less and less experienced hard charging longtimers.
    So we will have a military with a bunch of newbies. Look Out!

    The reservesretirement starts at 60. The way reserves and guards are being used, they should start recieving retirement at a prorated rate at their time of retirement.

    Somebody is out of thier mind. Active duty wait till 60 for retirement. Woah!!!!
    It is time veterans group together and start an action committee.

    I believe this is a another way the freaking liberals are destroying our military.

    I forsee: Huge backlog for VA benefit applications!

    We will to start to have to defend our land from infiltration of rogue countries and terrorists due to a smaller, and weak force.

    I also foresee our southern border the next war zone. That would be a better use for our Mid East soldiers.

    Call me radical, I started my service in 1976, retired 2001. Hold several MOSQ's. Enlisted and Officer Corp. Under 5 presidents.

    WE MUST ALL SPEAK OUT, or we will loose most of our benefits.

  279. As usual, reducing 'government spending' involves screwing those who spent their entire adult lives defending the country when some bureaucrat spends only five years in office at $120,000.00+ a year, retires, and gets full government pension.
    I am retired U.S. Army and my 'retirement' is only supplement to my pay, I would not be able to live off of it, besides, I dont consider it retirement pay, I consider it back pay for all the extra hours I worked, sometimes (Desert Storm), with some idiot dropping 1000lb warheads on me while i am trying to work.
    All this being said, our elected commie political leaders arent stupid, as has been already said, most of those retirees will not live long enough to collect their retirement, the average life expectancy of someone who retires is 7 years after retirement, either from not being able to adapt to civilian life, not being able to take the lack of 'stimulation' (stress), and health related issues (working with toxins), while in the military.
    These low lifes disgust me and have no honor what so ever.
    If they keep pushing this, they will meet up with some old, malfunctioning, PTSD vet with an unfinished nuke in his basement and nothing left to lose.

  280. He's a "MURTHA marine". I've served with his kind and all I can say: "I've stepped in better piles at the dog park"

  281. JAMES R CONYERS says:

    In recent years the government has continually changed “the deal” with retirement benefits. I did not serve in order to get a pension check but it worked out that way and that was fortunate for me. I have no problem with the government changing whatever they want on the front end (though they will lose ever more good soldiers) but it is unfair to change so dramatically after our service is over and we are retired. I steered my children away from military service because of how things have become. Fortunately, they took my advice.

  282. What is the intention for those of us who are seventy-four and older? Either I read poorly or missed any reference to those of us who retired in the seventies. From 05/54 to 06/74, I had a good life with the Air Force. I had
    very trying times, and I had wonderful times with ten years of service away from the USA. I made my way through pay freezes and promotion freezes. I am not concerned about future retiree pay raises, but I am along with all others who don't appreciate 4-Fs, draft dodgers and deferment specialists having brainstorms on how to legally sodomize military retirees.

  283. The Senate and the House need to take some cuts… They are so overpaid….have massive retirement and benefits packages that they should be the ones to give a little up . Leave the millitary alone.

  284. Currently in Afghan says:

    This is rediculous, first i read something that says they want to suspend our pay raises for the next three years… now they want to take away my retirement. How is it that they serve 4yrs in Congress and get full retirement and health care and now im being told that if i serve 20yrs and get out at the age of 40 i have to wait another 17yrs to get my retirement. What they need to do is start in THEIR OWN BACKYARD before they start coming and messing in mine.

    • military wife says:

      my husband is currently in afghanistan and has served 19 yrs. He is 42 yrs old and soon to retire. We were looking at the retirement to supplement housing etc while I went to finish school! If he has to wait so many years to even get retirement that is horrible! I hope enough of you serving in the military and us even who support it rise up and say something! My husband and you all have served with your lives!

  285. buddykober says:

    For Christ sake, when is this s*** going to stop. If you want to changed thing's, then do it to the pay raises and give these men and women more pay like they deserve. Give us our free medical we are supposed to be getting? I worked hard my 20 yrs. and 3 mos. in the Air Force and my wife was there the whole time serving with me as a dependant and she deserves far better benefits, too. So, get a life politicians and once and for all leave us the hell ALONE……….

  286. Lets have the politicans serve at least 10 years in politics before they can deaw retirement and benifits, but let them wait until 60 also before they get it.

  287. Jim Johnson says:

    A Veteran, is someone who at one point in their life, wrote a blank check payable to the United States of America for an amount up to, and including, their life. That is beyond honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer remember that fact.
    THANK ALL OF YOU FOR SERVING OUR COUNTRY
    Lets start taking care of the VET's
    Stop messing with our programs and start fixing the ones we have, So we can better take care of our VETS.
    We should have the DRAFT back we would have much more respect and responsibility form are younger generation then what we have today.
    THANK YOU

  288. You know the sad thing about this whole issue is I heard on tv one of these congressmen say that all these guys(talking about us men and women in uniform) have to do is serve 20 yrs and the get a retirement and medical for life. Saying it like we're getting over or something. I say to him, that all he has to serve is a term in office and he get his full pay for the rest of his life plus other benefits, not 50% like the most of that have done 20 yrs. These representatives can be such hypocrites who doesn't even have to sacrifice nearly 1/10th of what a veteran, or better yet, a career veteran has too and then receive 100% pay for life after serving one term in which they probably lied and manipulated the public in order to get elected!

  289. Bob Yancey says:

    My concern would be for the training of military members, most first term enlistees are just learning their trade and by their second term they are learning leadership and by their third term they become valuable for the wisdom and experience they hold. Loosing members after 10 years of service will result in a lot of leadership and experience problems for commands. If they want to fix it, then pay us more up front and allow us to spend or investment as we see fit by increasing the maximum allowable contributions that members can make to TSP. Members will then have the opportunity to write their own retirement future and set their own financial picture for their future.

  290. Kathy Willis says:

    Makes me SICK – what about the ACTIVE duty personnel that are on food stamps (not a lie!!), and what about the HOMELESS Vets? And they want to overhaul the system?? For shame, for shame… makes me ashamed to be an American…

    Yarralumla – USMC & USN Retired

  291. David A. Enos Sr. says:

    Let's see; freeze military pay for 3 years and change to a contributary retirement system (Vested after 10 years!) = major pay LOSS for all active duty! Do they think we're stupid!!?? Let's see if the same plan wpould work for the Congress!!! Notice they didn't touch that!! Write your congressmen, now!!!

  292. yarralumla says:

    What about the service personnel that are on food stamps because they don't make enough.. what about our homeless vets!! Makes me sick, and ashamed to be an american…. the real question is – what do we do about it?? anyone been able to call and actually talk to a senator, or congressman/woman lately? I've tried several times – don't think they actually read email or snail mail..'m absolutely disgusted..

  293. Master Guns says:

    If they want to get serious about cost-cutting, then they should start with the federal dole to the parasites on welfare. Thanks to LBJ, we now have multiple generations of welfare parasites who do nothing for the REAL "Great Society" !!

  294. Common sense would be to treat all Government employee's the same, therefore if the military's retirment pay was reduced by 20% then all other government employee's including Congress should see there retirment reduced by 20%. It was a huge fight in the 80's for equality now let's enforce it for all Government employee's! We need to unite and get some of these good idea's voted on.

  295. Tom Thompson says:

    Would like to drop the whole group that wants to cut our pay behind enemy lines and see who would go and try to help them, their big desks and big pay couldn't help them then. They are the scum of the earth, and should be voted OUT !! I haven't seen where they are even considering cuting their benefits.

  296. Whether you were in combat or not it shouldn't make in differance. We basically signed a contract with the government that if we served at least 20 years we would recieve retirement pay and medical benefits for the rest of are
    lives.

  297. Deferred benefits are how these guys get away with paying so little for so much. Then, when it comes time to pay the piper, they don't how to, and thus they find more ways to defer benefits again or tell you they're broke and can't pay you what they promised. Overall, if I could trust the retirement would be there in 27 years, I'd be for it. I'd rather they just pay much higher basic pay and worry less about retirement. This plan does have it's advantages (and everyone currently in is grandfathered in, or they can switch to the new one if they want), and as someone with 12 years in and tired of getting activated, this sounds rather appealing. But, it provides little incentive to stay 20.

  298. FrankN2010 says:

    Let's see…. I've got 2 problems with this the quackery

    1. You join at 18/21years of age, serve max of 30 years and then wait another 12/9 years to get retirement pay. Not a great market out there for folks 48/51 years of age unless you retire from the pentagon and work for a beltway bandit. Maybe they're hoping you'll die and they can invoke survivors benefits for your spouse – unless they too have to wait until they're 60.

    2. Isn't military retirement supposed to be deferred compensation? If so then give the service members ALL their due compensation and then let them decide what they want to do – including investment in a TSP.

  299. I am Shocked, Shocked I Tell you!… that Obama Appointed panels would attack anything dealing with the Military…. well maybe not…. Well you voted for "Change"…. get ready, here it comes….

  300. I think it is time for a Constitutional Amendment. One that REQUIRES any Federal elected official to have been in the military.

  301. These Obama appointed Commissions should be retitled "How to pay for Nationalized Healthcare"

  302. retired n happy says:

    Bottom line this program sucks!!!!!! What the military community need is get a petition started to change these members who sits in this panel. Have the military community get lots of signatures to get this panel change. bottom line it still sucks!!!!!

  303. god of hell fire, says:

    Eight years in the Corps. and fourteen and a half in the Army, two PH's and they think that it doesn't mean anything. Thank God we got rid of a bunch of these people on Nov. 2 nd and hopefully we will get rid of some more in 2012. I just hope we can survive 'till then. Write and call your Representatives and tell them not to mess with the Vets, or the active duty personnel. Tell them it would be like pissing of mother nature.

  304. When you mention "common people", it reminds me of a book I read that discussed; A People's History of the American Revolution. How Common People Shaped the Fight for Independence. As historians, and the military know, not to listen to history makes history repeat itself. Thomas Jefferson had a quote about government; The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

  305. HOW CAN ANYONE SUGGEST ANYTHING ..WHEN FOLKS IN GOVT..ALLOWED YOURSELVES EARLY RETIREMENT SYS ONLY AFTER 4 YEARS AT FULL PAY..AND GIVE YOUR SELF RAISES CALLING IT COST OF LIVING..IF THAT IS SO….. HOW COME S-CITIZENS GOT NONE..U ARE WAY OUT OF BOUNDS..UR NOT EVEN CLOSE DO THOSE FOLKS REALLY HAVE A COLLEDGE EDUCATION..IN …CAPT-HILL..BECAUSE THERE USEING 5TH GRADE THINKING..
    IDEAS…………WHAT A SHAME…

  306. I propose two amendments. 1.Anyone running for State or Federal office have to have served the nation in uniform for at least 10 years.
    2. Those who serve in State Assemblies or the Congress, may not leave office with a personal and family net worth more than the normal cost of living increase (accumulatedover the period of their sitting in office).
    Drastic?
    Make those people live with what they impose on the rest of us.

  307. Fred Fawcett says:

    Nothing new here. The same scumbags that runoff at the mouth about supporting the troops are always willing to cut pay and benefits earned by those troops. I remember Bush saying on TV that we couldn't burden the Iraqi people with the cost of rebuilding their country. After all, they only have the world's second largest oil reserves so it wouldn't be fair in Bush's words "To burden them with debt" Both parties, democrat and republican are more than willing to burden veterans with debt never for a minute taking into account the extra burdens that those vets carry for the rest of their lives as a result of serving their country. I'm sick and tired of all these fatassed lazy SOBs who think that patriotism starts and ends with displaying bumper stickers like "Freedom isn't Free". For most of them it damn sure is free. They don't serve, they refuse to pay the taxes needed to pay for decent vet's benefits and they turn their backs on those who do serve once they've had what they need from us. Vet's need to start keeping a score card on politicians on how well they support vet's issues. The NRA does it and so do environmental groups. It's a good way to see who our friends are and who just claims to be our friend while sticking us in the back and twisting the knife. Vote these scumbags out office and let them get real jobs for a change. Better yet, bring back the draft and haul their overweight, unfit fat asses into uniform where they can be real Americans for the first time in their lazy, pampered lives. Veterans are the best of American society and its about time they were treated that way.

    • The problem I see with you talking about organizations that rate politicians like the NRA and such is that doesn’t rate the whole person. Take for example Joe Manchin from WV. He is a democrat yet the NRA gave him a higher rating than the Republican. You know he’s gonna follow the Reid agenda to the T. Same goes for members in the House, sure a democrap gets a higher rating from the NRA but yet they will vote for Pelosi for speaker, and we all know where she stands. They fall right in line like good little boys and girls. Ratings don’t mean squat, it’s what they do for you and their constitituency.

  308. Retired Navy says:

    Politicians are catering to the rich, wanting to give them ever larger tax cuts, which they want the military to pay for. Its time for the 99% of the citizens of this country who don't serve to start sacrificing!

  309. Robert Smith says:

    Well I can't understand why the gov. don't cut their on retirement. They get medical free for life and all other benefits.

    • Denny Edwards USN-RET says:

      This is not true. A retiree does not have free medical for life. Under Tricare they have to pay a large deduction and a portion of the cost. And at age 65, Social Security age you are forced to use medicare as a primary ins., with Tricare as a secondary ins. Additionally, having contributed fully with paying social security (FICA), a retiree either has to receive a reduced retirement payment or a reduce Social Security payment. To me that’s pretty damn unfair. If we were not going to get full Social Security payments then why did they take out of my paycheck the full FICA. The whole thing is bull shit, they want people to serve, defend and die for this country but they want all that sacrifice and death for nothing.

      • Not to mention often not getting COLAs on either Social Security or retirement when there obviously is inflation. I challenged all my representatives to match their health benefits with those of the military retirees to show leadership in this area. I guess none of them are leaders since none has responded, let alone shown any sign of sacrificing anything but the benefits of the vets.

  310. i think the president should wait till hes 65 to collect his retirement seeing how he gets full pay for life and benifits after only 4 years. i think its wrong that the military now pays for their meals when they go to the mess hall they dont get to go home every night and be with family but politicians want to take more. i think people should quit joining and let washington go to these foreign countries and fight the wars they waste money on and our kids stay home. politicians shouldnt be allowed to run for office until they have served their country in the military.

  311. I don't know why any of you retirees are giving any of the people on here that didn't do 20+yrs the time of day with all their bitching and complaining. I retired with 23+yrs and I work for the V.A. now and I am giving back. These slackers and whiners can't tell me a damn thing. They would be upset if they enlisted and wanted to do twenty and now that was under threat. But I am sure this program would be instituted just like "high-3". You come in after a certain year and it is what it is! All you guys looking to do 20yrs right now should have no problem and would retire under "High 3" anyway. I remember when my Father retired after 35 yrs they tried to take away Tricare for life. But that is what was offered to those individuals that enlisted under that proram Congress tried to take it away and those retirees stood up and said no way! They still have their Tricare for life. Good luck to all of you and even to you complainers.

    Later,
    Mike

  312. WoW, how stupid is it to piss off the people you've trained to take down and destroy Governments, and all of their friends and family on active duty!

  313. Ben US Army Retired says:

    We set back and let this idiot be elected. If implemented, this plan will reduce the ability of the armed forces to recruit seriously impacting the ability to maintain our military strength and status. Lets put people in office in DC that support our military personnel and get rid of these that do not.

  314. If you want to save some cash – look at how Representatives and Senators are paid retired with only one term served!

  315. Remember the movie where Clint Eastwood was a cop and there was a hot-shot team of rookies that were "moonlighting" going around and wiping out drugdealers, crimeloards, crooked politicians….

    Do you see the connection, hmmm?

  316. Jerry Murphy LTC RET says:

    The main article has a major inaccuracy that only a few of us old-timers remember. (Active duty 1955 to 1983) The DOD started LONG before 1980 to start sqeezing the retirement pay. Beginning in 1957, retirement pay scales were no longer linked DIRECTLY to ACTIVE DUTY pay scales.

  317. Patrick your a looser. I spend 11 Years in the USMC Infantry/scout sniper and 14 Years in the National Guard. You couldn't have made it in the corps any longer and probably no one wanted you. Your a poore excuse for a marine.
    Lets get all of this liberal out of office.

  318. Jerry Murphy LTC RET says:

    I saw several changes in the way retirement pay (Notice that it is PAY!) was calculated. First: no increases; next: COLAs with One percent "Kicker"; then NO KICKER; about forty years ago The Draft was replaced by ALL VOLUNTEERS with pay scales comparale to civilian sector. (REALLY?); and about thirty years ago began the Retirement Calculation based upon HIGH 36 MONTHS preceeding. Each and every move was made to reduce retirement COSTS….. at the expense of retirees.

  319. Jerry Murphy LTC RET says:

    Just TRY using GI BILL while retired with kids in college. I have suspected for some time now that there is SOMEONE in DOD whose job it is to keep track of retirement and Veterans' deaths. Got to get those costs down. Since November 2009, DOD has found a kindred spirit in the White House. Our service members are fighting for their lives abroad and at home. Earlier this month, The People spoke…NO THEY YELLED! Two more years of this disaster and the remaining evil doers will hit the pavement, looking for jobs.

  320. I agree 100% with Anthony USMC

  321. Anthony has it right. I agree completely with his statement.

  322. kevin Hart says:

    Military pay has gotten out of hand. I know numerous people who have hung out for 20 at resorts like Tyndall AFB. and lived a high life on current pay. When I was in the service we suffered on pay because we knew we would draw retirement at age 38. Now, they get competitive pay and still draw retirement at 38. Something needs to change.

  323. Maurie0622 says:

    i am currently serving in the Army and I have 4 combat deployments under my belt and 14 years served. I understand that something has to be done to lower the amount of government spending that is occurring and we need viable solutions that will continue to help the U.S. economy right itself

    • rick USAF ret says:

      well the way I see it we should start by cutting all the aid we send to all these countrys that stab us in the back then cut all the pet projects

  324. All the military that has served hard and long deserve all the benefits they deserve. So many of the benefits are gradually going away. This is not was promised to them when the enlisted and repeat enlisted. These people wanted to serve our great country so we all have freedom of speech and feel safe here in the US. It is so hard to live on pay that the retirees get. My husband served 20 yrs in the Army and passed away a few years ago. Without getting that increase in COLA is even hard for the surviors and now taking about the increase in TRICARE. I agree that the Senate & Congress should spend time in any of the shoes of our military folks be they active or retired and pay the bills and try to survive on the pay they get now. Somebody needs to make them wake up.

  325. joe chasse says:

    I agree with what all before me have said. Do the cutting and things will happen. And if they think the military will back them when the sh—-t hits the fan, they need to think again. One question? Where are their brains/are they sitting on the.? MORANS!!!!

  326. forrest Hudson says:

    Working as a military personel for twenty years willing to give up one's life should be justifiable enough to retire with full pension and health care for life and the same should be true for State and community Policemen and don't leave out Federals Personnels……Forrest F. Hudson M/Sgt USAF Ret Fhud306@comcast.net

  327. jquiles917 says:

    Well here we go again. the economy is in the tank and the first thing they want to cut or revamp it the military retirement system. Let's all get together and hold a blue panel of own and come up with a permanent salary and retirement plan for congress. They should not earn five time as much as the average soldier that is sitting at the front lines protecting them so they can steal right in our faces. They do nothing but line their pockets with our money and lie. What a bunch of BShitters. they ought to be fired if they don't produce in year.

    • Yes, I agree congress must be denied free healthcare. Most of them don’t need it anyway. Enough is enough. Leave the military folks alone. 1 in 300 Americans serve yet there are thousands of corporations avoiding taxes by keeping $ offshore. Who is going to fight the wars ? I am active duty and there has been a serious drop in quality to fill the ranks. Starting to think that our own government is more dangerous than the Taliban!

  328. It's wrong, just plain wrong. So many other places that could be looked at to save some money but the military is not allowed to lobby or protest so they must figure that'll be the quickest and quietest way to get it done. Well, us retirees can protest and we need to let the lawmakers know what we think about this… Write your congressman frequently. Guess it's going to fall on our shoulders again to get the job done right…..

  329. Bisley45LC says:

    Our honored dead: These men sacrificed all they had and all they will ever have. Most Americans will sacrifice nothing for their country during the course of their entire lifetime.

    Enough Said.

  330. I served 19 yrs and am looking forward to my retirement at 60. I only have 13 more months to wait now. Now you want to take some of this away? Shame on you. In harms way, yes I've been there. But that was my job at that time. If I had to do it again, yes I would because I love this country. Leave my retirement alone. I earned it. So did most of our Military. Thanks to all who are still serving and ARE IN HARMS WAY.

  331. Sadly Patrick ignorant remarks like yours are not the feelings of the majority, Therefore it requires little attention. Thank God for every Veteran past, present and future. Your service and sacrifices to our country is greatly appreciated so don't allow anyone to minimize your importance whether you served three years or thirty. This gentleman (Patrick) is hiding behind a computer making cowardly statements – Shame on you!

  332. SonofRichard says:

    Well they say that serving in the Military is a Service, Ok I'm doing that for 8 years now. I've also heard a good leader "leads by example" I will accept these cuts when our President and all other elected officials Senators etc. take the same cuts. Three year pay freeze mirrored tricare benefits and fees and oh yeah retirement at age um let's say 80 since they don't deploy, don't risk their life for their country, miss birthdays, christmas, and other precious holidays with family. Then I'd say it's ok. Or they could just go back to drafting people, so much for the world's greatest military.

  333. I have wanted to know how long a House member must serve before they get a pension. Recently, I looked that up. A standard U.S. House of Representative must serve five (5) years before they will be able to recieve a pension for the rest of their lives. That pension will be $170,000 a year. Put their butts in Afganistan or Iraq or Korea and see how they do.

  334. This is truly pathetic proposal. This is why it should be required all politicians serve in the military, then maybe they would learn the really meaning of honor and sevice to country, before starting making these proposals.

  335. USNAD1AWRET says:

    Why is it that our elected officialy feel that they need to mess with our retirement pension? I think it's because they feel that they sould'nt have to give up part of thier highly inflated pay. Maybe if they were to live in our shoes for a year and live on what we are expected to live on then I'm sure they would seriously reconsider. If Washington continues on the road they are we as a nation will either fall or we are on the cusp of another revolution. Frankly I'm tired of getting screwed at every turn. I spent 20 years of my life defending this mighty nation and I have earned my retirement. As for the reservists whining about them having to wait to age 60, GET OVER IT! You chose to do that job part itme so you could enjoy your time at home and live in your cushy little house and earn a retirement that can't be messed with by the freakin polititions. If you had served this country for 20+ years 24/7 then you would understand where the rest of us are coming from. Nuff said

  336. Retired Air Force says:

    ‘JUST A FEW THINGS TO PUT ON THE TABLE, TO SAVE US BILLIONS IN TAX DOLLLARS”

    “STOP” paying our Retired State and U.S. Congressmen and Senators a glorified retirement and put them on the “SOCIAL SECURITY PROGRAM”

    “STOP” paying “ILLIGAL ALIENS” from our “SOCIAL SECURITY PROGRAM” and providing “FREE HEALTHCARE”

    “CONGRESSIONAL REFORM ACT OF 2010 OR 2011″

    1. Term Limits.

    12 years only, one of the possible options below..

    A. Two Six year Senate terms

    B. Six Two year House terms

    C. One Six year Senate term and three Two Year House terms

    2. No Tenure / No Pension.

    A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

    3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

    4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

    5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

    7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

    8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/11.

    The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves .

    Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.

    “MERRY CHRISTMAS AND MAY GOD BLESS U.S.ALL

  337. Mad Soldier says:

    This is a sad day Congress keeps getting richer and the Soldiers and Veterans that has SERVED their country keep getting Shafted! So how many homeless and sick Veterans will it be now! We should vote for Casper because it is getting WORSE……

  338. Truth Hurts says:

    Patrick you are an fool to think we don't deserve it because you quit Jackass

  339. I am currently almost gonna hit my 20 yr. mark in the next 4 yrs. while in the Navy and I would say that the idea of changing the current retirement pay system is unjust. For those who don't like the idea of overhauling the retirement pay like I do, if you have not already done so, you need to send a prewritten letter to your Congressman instead of just bickering and whining. Better to take action than doing nothing. It's easy to complain than try. We need to band together and lobby our Congressman to oppose this or else we will all have to deal with it.

  340. All I can say is another stupid way to find budget cuts on the backs of people who spent a better part of their adult life making sure that people like these "panel members" can sleep well at night. There are millions of ways to balance the budget by cutting pet projects and pork. LEAVE THE VETERANS ALONE DAMMIT!!!!!

    • Had to add this, if they want to hold our pay until we're 57, then let us serve past 20 without all the restrictions that now exist (e.g. you have to be of a certain rank to serve beyond 20 years). That would save them money too!

  341. If our leaders want a cheap military then return the draft. Otherwise, keep out of the benefits our service men and women have earned. Oh, and for all you who think we get free medical for life, it isn’t free….and it will go up if our over paid leaders have anything to say.

  342. Toe Cheeze says:

    Most of these politicians never served in the Military, though they say they serve their country. Funny to me as I thought members of Congress and the Senate are elected by the people of their state, not the whole country. Lets have the states they are elected from pay their salaries and have their raises based on performanance in reguard to how well they represent the people of their districts within those states. That will balance the budget fast and will eliminate the life long members of congress as if their salary and raises were based on performance, I doubt any would like to serve too long.

  343. Why is this called a Blue Ribbon debt panel ? Does Pete Domenici and Alice Rivlin get a blue ribbon for screwing over our military? I would bet you that neither one of them has ever served. What we need on this panel is a retired enlisted who served 20 to 30 years,not a retired senator or some born with a silver spoon in your mouth economist. Those people dont know what its like to serve. When I enlisted i was told i would have free medical and fre dental for my family and if i served 20 years i could retire with 50% of my base pay. this panel wants us to retire in 10 years and not receive any benifits until we reach 60 years of age. this panel is betting on the fact that we wont live to collect this benifit and that means the government wont have to pay. All active military and retired should fight against this another slap in the face. It has been suggested many times that if the government wants to cut spending, cut the congress pay. Dont pay them any retirement or cut their medical. Put them in Iraq or Korea somewhere in harms way. Let them get a taste of it.

  344. Um' Sorry, I think this will be the largest class action law suit EVER. MILLIONS of us entered into a CONTRACT with the United States Government stating; One of the benefits of service was a retainer of 1/2 of your base pay FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. 9 years in Navy Recruiting, this was one of the most important features we had to offer the young Men and Women to fullfilling 20 years of service for Country. Don't try and ask where it says we should get this. It is in every recruiting office across the country!

  345. let's change the retirement and medical benefits of the President and Congress. Also let's not forget when they do get retirement to charge them every month for their spouses to receive half of the retirement! But their spouses receive all of it free of the extra charge. I wonder how they would like to have our retirement, I sure would like theirs!

  346. Why is it that we never hear these fat cats talk about the expense the tax payers bear for all the retired politicians and judges collecting full salary, getting free medical and running around the country making speeches and/ or writing books and making millions for doing so after serving one or two terms. They are always quick to talk about the huge pension costs for personnel who served 20 or more years laying their lives on the line to protect the very same fat cat’s right to rape the American tax payer. How much do we pay for all the Secret Service Agents that have to follow some of the fat cats around? Anyone else reading this remember that the Clinton’s were charging the Government to house Secret Service personnel at their New York Estate? The cost was just coincidentally the same amount as their mortgage for the entire estate. To paraphrase the late Ronald Reagan, “government is not the solution to the problem; government IS the problem”. It’s truer today than ever.

    As a Navy Reserve who has served 38 years, I am still not 60 yet and I am just hoping that when I finally am, the government hasn’t abolished the retirement system completely.

  347. richard j. chirdon says:

    replace congress with something that works

  348. TO MY FELLOW RETIREES,
    WE DID WHAT WE WERE CALLED UPON AND OUR GOVERMENT HAS SPIT IN OUR FACES ONCE A GAIN. THEY SAY THAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS GOING BROKE, MAYBE THEY SHOULD LOOK AT THE REPAYMENT OF THE FUND OWED BY OUR GOVERMENT. WE MAD AN OATH TO SERVE AND DEFEND OUR WAY OF LIFE AND MANY OF US SERVED IN PLACES THAT THE PEOPLE THAT RUN THE COUNTRY HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT OR EVEN HEARD OF. WE DID SO BY TELLING OUR COUNTRY THAT WE WOULD GO IN HARMS WAY TO ENSURE THAT THE RIGHTS OF ALL WOULD LAST. THE VA HOUSING HAS A STATEMENT THAT THEY SHOULD ALL BE REQUIRED TO READ WHEN WE SIGNED OUR CONTRACTS WE AGREE THAT WE WERE WRITING A CHECK TO THE COUNTRY THAT WE WOULD GIVE ALL TO INCLUDE OUR LIVES TO ENSURE OUR WAYS OF LIVING. WE LIVED UP TO WHAT WE SAID THAT WE WOULD DO AND THEY JUST WANT TO TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM US OR MAKE US PAY FOR THINGS THAT THEY PROMISED.

  349. I think our military is already short changed enough.Any person that retires after 20 years of service to this country thru our armed forces should retire as if they retired from some of these civilian companys making hundreds of thousands dollars. you have to be productive for your entire military career. I hink everyone should serve at least one term in the military and see what its like.

  350. There is an old saying from WWII days, about a Soldier (or a Sailor or a Marine) coming back to base after a pass, and reporting sight of a lawn sign that said "Dogs and Soldiers Keep Off the Lawn." That "Keep Off the Lawn" thing is more a reflection of how the general citizenry views the military after a conflict is over, or when it has, in their minds, dragged on too long. We, those young enough to still be serving and those of us retired, will soon be "Dogs" again. It is a cycle that is never ending. It occurs in other countries and in other times, also. Read Rudyard Kipling's Poem about "Tommy" from the WWI era. I would bet there was graffiti on the walls in Pompeii when Vesuvius buried it in 79AD, harping about what a drag on the Treasury of Rome the Centurion was. This is a situation, that if you live long enough, you get used to.

    All the same, remember that you have the right to fire your elected members of Congress. If you do not like what they are doing, fire them the next time around, and hire a new person. Then keep it up until it works.

  351. How about cuting there pay that politicians get they only work half the year so they shpld only get hald the pay and how abput all those perks and beenfits how about making Lobbying illegal. How about closing 300 military bases that we do nedd like all the ones in Europe, Japan etc. There going after the the little guy while the big splurges. How about stopping these wars that was bases on treason and lies. How about really doing a real 9/11 investigation, many will hang for that. See these polticians want to go after social security and the the enlsited guys stuff how about cutting all thse buillion dollar waste of money and we are still paying 80 dollars for a bolt. We need to look at DC before you cut our throats. This should tell everyone WHY SERVE for what? So they can screw us later, like there screwing us now. Wake up people AMerica, its not social secuity and it it is not the little guy its your treasonist appitite to get us in wars that are phoney and your so called lobbying that is selling out AMerica,

  352. I do believe they have lost their everloving mind. They want to outlaw home gardens, cut military retirement, take from the working and give it to the non working, raise our taxes. If they keep it up 1776 will happen all over again. And God forbid that it comes to that. North Korea is shelling South Korea, Iran is building Nuclear weapons. And they want to mess with the military PAY and the Military Retirement system. No sane person would contemplate their actions. LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD!!!!!!!!

  353. What this article failed to include is the Military Retirement Reform Act of 1986 method (also known as REDUX) that affected those who initially entered military service on or after August 1, 1986 had their retirement computed using the REDUX method. The formula gave someone with 20 years service 40% through age 62 and recomputed then. This system was repealed in 2000 because it sucked and was creating a hollow force. This country is really starting to suck, NO correction, we are all starting to suck because we are allowing this to happen to the greatest country on earth. After 22 years of service I'm starting to get pissed off at the liberal hijacking that is taking place.

  354. Members of the house should have to have mandatory honorable military service to run for office. No retirement should be on the table at all! That is what their civilian career is for. Its easy for House members to look elsewhere to cut money, but never look in their own pockets, Oh, No No No No No! Lets change the system, whatever it takes. General George Washington had to plead to the troops after the Revolution War to not take over congress because they did not want to pay the military for their service after the war. Lucky for congress we listened to George Washington!

  355. Patrick-I'll bet my retirement that when you turn 38/39(whatever your retirement age would have been) you will say to someone"damn if I would stayed in I could have retired today". I've heard it tons of times. Bye the way, I served honorably in the Air Force for 25 years, got out and spent 15 years as a senior manager in aerospace. I'll take military management over civilian management any day. Have a nice day and don't you ever think you are superior to one of my brothers again-you moron!

  356. I am not surprised at all. They know exactly who and when people are getting out. They know who is staying past the 10 year mark, 20 year mark .

  357. 19years and counting says:

    An immediate payment upon reaching 20 years active duty is not realistic. Regardless that my 20 year letter is so close, 50% base pay as soon as I don't wear my uniform daily is not an inalienable right. Options: lower payments for life? Defer checks to age 60 or some other "full-retirement" age, like 62, 65, 70? Low pay at duty's end and ramp up to COLA-protected full payments later? "Full pay now, no COLA though, until full-retirement" by @JUSTASUGGESTION?

    DON'T reduce payments for anyone 65+ or disabled. However, those of us who are able to continue contributing to society after our military retirement (2nd career), it is entirely thinkable we can defer our military retirement payments a bit further. I know enough military retirees in the workforce who acknowledge their military retirement pay is welcome, deserved, liberating, and, if pressed, not entirely fair.

    Today's pressures and needs call for us all to listen to any proposals and reflect on them with an open mind.

  358. Hope Bjorklund says:

    Where are we gpnna qualified soldiers Who will defend our country The jackasses that govern us now wpould run the other way Americans pray for us because nobody will want to serve

  359. Take it to the polls says:

    We have weeded out quite a few deaf representatives during this last election, looks like the few that lucked out just don't get it. We want them to be more responsible not irresponsible! Our country is taking a fight to foreign shores, it is an all volunteer force. Once we are out of there the game is not over – I'd bet the Joint Chief's are smart enough to realize now is not the time to draw down or tinker with pay and benefits, right? I would like to challenge every vet reading this to let their representatives know, that if they want to count on our votes they will leave Military Pay and Benefits alone. Table the issue until the world situation has improved. Otherwise those deaf representatives left on the floor after this last election can start now by reserving a spot in the unemployment line with the rest of us. Let's take it to the polls – our framers of the Constitution knew what they were doing when they designed term limits of two years for Congress and six years for the Senate, staggering those up for election so they get it when voters respond to their performance.

  360. Don't forget, my fellow GIs, retirement is calculated on our BASE PAY!

  361. BILL AUSTIN says:

    UNDER THE PROPOSED SYSTEM; WHY WOULD ANYONE CAPABLE OF DOING SOMETHING ELSE JOIN? IF YOU STAY IN UNTIL YOU ARE 55, YOU ARE TOO OLD TO START SOMETHING ELSE AND WON'T GET ENOUGH RETIREMENT PAY TO REALLY RETIRE. BESIDES, IF THE GOVERNMENT THOUGHT YOU HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO RETIRE ON, THEY WOULD CHANGE THE SYSTEM AS THEY HAVE DONE MANY TIMES. IF THEY WANT A NEW RETIREMENT SYSTEM MAKE IT EFFECTIVE NOW FOR THOSE JUST JOINING. SPELL IT OUT AND WEE HOW MANY STAY IN. I AM A RETIRED AF SMAGT AND HAVE THE SYSTEM CHANGED A NUMBER OF TIMES SINCE I JOINED IN 1954.

  362. I agree put them in uniform send them to front lines then they will change there minds if they have one left if they are lucky enough to get back

  363. A better way to sell these BS changes is to get Congress to agree to very same changes. They get all those benefits for what???? Exactly, for doing nothing.

  364. Always the military first! Why not cut politicians pay in half, put them on TRICARE, tie their retirement in with civilian government workers, and Thrift Savings? While we are at it lets send all illegal immigranst home, stop all foreign aid, and stop giving money to politicians rich friends, relatives, and campaign supporters!

    If military retirement is tied into civilian government retirement does that mean civilian government workers will have to meet the same physical fitness and weight standards, or will the standards be the same for the military as those for civilian workers?

    I wouldn't rejoin the military for nothing in the world with the crooks we have in Washington now!

    This country is on the door steps of a full blown revolution!

    • Congress already have the same retirement that federal civil servants have. It’s called FERS. It’s contributory, rather than defined-benefit like ours. They aren’t vested for 5 years, meaning if they serve less than 5 years, they get nothing from the gov’t! Otherwise, its pretty much a 401(k) plan.

      This isn’t exactly the retirement-for-life that some folks think they have.

  365. Before the rocket scientists who man this panel actually screw the military one more time, they need to address the point of fact that their recommendations do nothing to fix anything in the current budget mess created by the politicians, and merely kicks the can down the road. But once again the bureaucrats seek to try to balance the budget on the backs of veterans.

  366. The average war time veterans lives up to the age 50. And they are moving retirement to 60 they are crazy.

  367. I realy think that whoever thought of this Idea should have a Behavior heath consult. Evedenty they are litteraly out of their minds. To think that they want to take away my retirement as well as all those who have served before me, meaning litteraly served in a ligitiment Conflict not just 2 or 3 yrs and out like the browns play football. I have served in every conflict since I came in in 90 to include 3 tours back to back to Iraq and 2 tours to Afgahnistan, Desert Storm and Somalia. I am getting medicaly retired as we speak due to the total cost I paid in my last three deployments. IED’s are a real Bitch. Let the sons of bitches in the house go over and experience the effect of getting hit by a 2ton Foue gas IED, then tell me that all of us that have served and deserver our 20 and out money as well as all our bennies, don’t deserve it and wont get it. I realy see a major possibility of a realy big revolt on the house that could be very costly or damaging to some of their lives. they just dont know what they are messing with. I pray every night that GOD gives them a real brain for Xmas before it is to late…

    We have earned our bennies and by god as my witness we should get them as soon as we hit our out date not the 10 and out reform…

    What do you fellow retirees think

    • I agree with you 100% brother. If they would cut the pay of the politicians, they would save tons of money. Let them all go over and have a few rockets and mortars fired at them. And, then have some group tell them they are cutting there health care, and retirement.

  368. Funny, you get peanuts when you're on active duty and HALF of peanuts when you retire. I did 25 years but if you count all the hours I put in it was probably more like 35. If you reduce the pay you should opt for 8 hour days or since you threw TSP in there how about flex-time and all those other perks that government workers get? So, if I'm out to sea, can I just call up to my Commanding Officer and tell him I'm working from "home" (my berthing area) that day????? Our government is so hidious!! They ought to go after the companies and people who bought houses they couldn't afford to recoup all their money. Leave the military alone! Next you'll have to bring the draft back because you sure aren't gonna get anyone to volunteer for the little the government is offering. Very sad state the US is in. I bet we're the laughing stock of all the world. It's a shame the people in charge get such high salaries, and benefits, but don't know how to balance a checkbook!!!!!!

  369. Patrick,
    you’re missing the point. Do you invest; if you do you know that the higher the risk the bigger the reward, well that's the military soldier’s investment. The military person has to risk a lot more than a majority of civilian jobs in comparison, and the reward for that risk is and should continue to be a good retirement plan. And your cynicism to individuals that give more than ten years as a bunch of uneducated lazy individuals is very ignorant. How many people with only 5 years experience could do what a MSG does with 17? I think you need to reevaluate your analysis because it is sorely missing a great many facts, and you've based it solely on your personal, emotional perspectives. I’m also curious what line of work you are currently in, once I know that, I’ll use the most worthless person in your institution as a basis to judge you, your work, and your years of service.

  370. Grey Ghost 64 says:

    Anyone that serves the country for twenty years should be able to retire and receive their retirement when they retire; NOT years after they retire. ——The system that has been in place now for many yeats has worked fine.—–My comment on the congress people that want to change everything but their own retirement, pension, automatic pay raise every year, etc. etc.—–We need people in congress that are going to work, " For The People/ Of The People/ By The People".keep ypur eyes on what your congress people are doing. Remember——We have People Power at the VOTING POLLS. USE IT. There are something like (33) seats to be voted on in election year 2012. Vote for the Person; NOT the party. It may take a few elections, but we can turn control of the congress back to the people. We can let congress know that they are NOT there for their life. Work for the people, OR get voted out————-Vote for the person,—-Not The Party.

  371. I don’t know of anyone who accepted the REDUX. This was another assinine plan by the government. It’s bad enough they tax retirement money, whats next? AN attempt to tax disability that a retiree gets?

  372. I served in the air force from 1949 to 1971 and retired as m/sgt I rember that President Eisenhow after becoming president tried to fix the BUDGET on the backs of the military Now hear we go again ,I lost thousand of dollers because of him and I lost thousand of dollers when Congress messed with SBP .Why in the Hell do they try to fix the budget on the backe of the Military ?We are the ones that have kep them free from Japan and Germany so tell them to stick it up their ass.PS this is my Email address tdr08@comcast.net

  373. Jim Huff SMsgt Ret. says:

    After reading the reply from Patrick I felt a void in the pit of my stomach. Serving 20-years requires more than just being in combat. Lower pay than working the same career field in the civilian populace. Remote tours for at least one year at a time from your spouse, children and other loved ones. Responsibility to your country, fellow Airmen, Soldiers, Sailors and Marines to include Coast Guard. 12-hr shifts, weekend duty and total committment to your vocation. There are multiple sacrifices in everyday life and all predicated on promises of retirement, health care and a personal promise to serve.

  374. Joe Beffer says:

    I just had to reply.. What you said was correct, THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY !!!! And again, I have to ask the question, HOW MANY ON " THE PANEL" served in the MILITARY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They don't have a clue, other then "WHAT CAN THEY DO TO "SCREW US" THAT SERVED ????? We are NOT THE PROBLEM !!! Over the years THEY have made THE PROBLEM GROW with their GREED, and the promise of a $$$$$ retirement for themselves !!!! Social security, Military retirement, TRICARE, ETC, I want to see the MILITARY RECORDS OF PELOSI, REID, and most of all OBAMA !!! Yes, they say they care about those that are serving, and those that served, but honestly, I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD GIVE A SHIT LESS !!!

  375. Jim Huff SMSgt Ret says:

    It is everyones choice to serve however that choice is based on not only knowing the risks but also the benefits that go along with the choice to serve. During my 20 + years serving in the military even when we argued amongst ourselves, all military members stood by each other. I do not know Patrick but I am very aware of others who share his sentiment and they ride on a common thread, they did not commit to 20 yrs, did not serve 20 years, thought of themselves before others and do not understand honor, duty or country in the same fashion as the folks who have spent a lifetime putting others before themselves.

    • There are many people that feel like Patrick. Why do you think the majority of the Soldiers(Army) get out before they complete ten years?

  376. Jim Huff SMSgt Ret says:

    I served all those years to allow people like Patrick to voice his opinion even though he has no clue what the ramification may be to others. It is easy to voice your opinion against benefits that you did not earn quite simply because you have nothing to lose. Patrick, if you don’t have a dog in the fight, put your skirt on and go home where you are safe.

  377. motorpool1 says:

    Thru stupity over the years our government have cut the military due to buget cuts. A lot of us both on active duty and reserve forces have made a lot of sacifices while you people in the goverment have increased you pay and have done what you can to decrease Our benifits and now you want to change the active duty retirement… what is wrong with you. you got your's and you made no sacrefices for them. WE HAVE AND OUR FAMILIES HAVE…
    i have retired from the national guard and cannot collect till I am 60. You change it for ACTIVE DUTY YOU WILL HAVE TO START THE DRAFT JUST TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY. NO ROOM FOR YOU TO SEND OUR MILITARY OVERSEAS.
    WE KNOW YOU WON'T SERVE … TAKE A PAYCUT YOURSELF. CHANGE YOUR RETIRMENT YOU DID NOT EARN IT!!!
    SGT K GRAVES U.S. ARMY RETIRED RESERVES

  378. MATT
    Knickers in a knot? You like this new retirement idea? I don't think you read the entire proposal. If you're not 70 or older, I doubt you even know what knickers are and it is apparent you don't understand the gravity of the problem with this new proposal. These Gov. Officials are looking for a quick fix , not a solution to our problem. If they have'nt been able to control their spending in the past and if they continue to spend and give money away as they have in the past,then a fix it quick solution is no good. they only receive a certain amount of money just the same as I only receive a certain amount of money. I must live within my means. If our Gov. Officials don't start running the Gov. within thier means, then all the fixes they conjure up will not fix our financial problems. It seems like, it's always the military and the elderly that gets the financial cuts every time our Gov. Officials over spend. The only thing we can do about it is find out who they are and vote them out of office!!!

  379. Could we come to some kind of realization that the government is not a separate distinct species, from another world. We are the government.
    It really is time to pay attention to where we are headed.
    The 'wars' will be over at some point. What is going to happen when most
    of our forces are back home?. You do realize the war has cost us more
    than the we can ever hope to gain. You know like the one i was in 68-69.
    All this quibbling deflects from the real issue of economic restructuring, and what kind of economy we wish to evolve.
    The reason for no increase in benefits should, if your just conscious and breathing, be obvious. Our system runs on a river of money. Right now it is damned up out of fear and uncertainty. All the bitching and whining will NOT change that fact. You want increased benefits then start THINKING of how it might be achieved. It is getting annoying to think of military veterans, once brave and prepared now doing the tear and hanky routine.
    We are each only one in 6.8billion other humans. So if your all up about how significant you are, mull it over. The government owes us NOTHING. We fight to make us safe and the rest is up to each individual. Life is not scripted for you so stand tall and don't ball, it makes you look silly.
    Me? 3/34/9div/charlie battery/ Kienhoa Province/ Vietnam sept68-july69. Fire Base Claw. Hey, i got drafted so what did you expect?

  380. Someone on this panel needs to be punched in the face. Also Patrick sounds to me to be a Terminal Lance in supply(nothing against supply just saying he a S Bird) because someone that did time in the box as a grunt probably wouldn't run off at the mouth like that.

  381. Benjamin Weathers says:

    I knew when that Fascist got elected, this would happen. I only pray that this plan won't be retroactive. I'm all for cutting programs. Eliminate all pensions from the Top. Starting with the President, Then Congress, Then the Judiciary. Then eliminate pensions for all Federal Workers. Then and only then, if needed, cut the Military. Can't wait until 2012. Get that Fascist out of Government and clean up the rest of those Fascists in Congress.

  382. THE GOVT NEEDS TO CUT THE PAY AND RETIREMENT BENIFITS OF
    ALL politicians. WHY DO THEY HAVE BETTER BENIFITS THEN SOMEONE
    SERVING 20 YRS IN THE MILITARY, WHO PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE.

  383. With their proposals, they might save money on retirement but have to either drastically INCREASE active duty pay or reinstate the draft! Because that is one benefit most people want to make the military a career. Without 20 year retirement with immediate paychecks, how do they expect to have an all volunteer force?
    After I retired from the USAF I figured out how much money I had lost over the 24 years I spent in the military. Not even considering the two degrees that I managed to complete, I compared what I made up to that point to a friend I worked with at Hallmark Cards before going into the military. As close as the two of us could figure, even considering BAS/BAQ etc. He had still out earned me by 5 to 1. So the only way that I have of "catching up" is with my military retirement and that is assuming I live to be 143 years old! And continue to bust my ass working during that entire time!

  384. Steve Johnston says:

    This is an interesting comments page. I've only read page one so someone else may have delt w/ this. I learned of this plan about 2 years ago, it's been in the works for a long time and was intiated at least in part by the Pentagon, at least I was told it was. The idea is to provide an elite, highly trained professional cadre of officers and senior non-coms who would serve for up to 40 years providing they got thru the promotion gates. Everyone else is a rifle carrier, and they are expected to get out at 10 about when the physical problems of being an infantryman, etc start to show up. The "retirement" is bait to keep people in for at least 10 and not lose the experience and expertise of that first 4 years. I got this from my former CO and why he explained it to me I'm not sure, but I got this a lot from my officers. I know there are a lot of E-8's and above that understand this system and why they want it. I'm just a retired Chief from the CG. I don't like this system or what it might be saying about where we are going with the military or as a country.

    • Steve , I was surprise too. This has been going on for some time. I am surprise by the reaction from Senior NCOs.

  385. This is the time for all branches of service to stick together and start fighting these guys at election time.These congressmen and reps. are getting $7600.a year and the VETS are getting $0. for their lifes work.My thirty years of service means somthing to me. Lets start banding together Brothers and start showing these guys who they work for. Lets down grade thier PAYCHECKS.

  386. Why are you changing something that has worked for years and something we have worked hard to recive though hard times and the family that helped us though the hard times. Why are all you Congressmen and Senators loking to cut the pay for every man and woman that servered in the military when you soud be looking at cutting your pay in half and try to live off that . You do not work harder than I do or the same hours, days holidays. When was the last time a Congress and Senator woked during a hoilday with out thier family.

  387. Naval Engineer says:

    If this type of system goes into effect, there will be many people like myself facing a tough decision. I served 3 years enlisted time qualifying as a Reactor Operator, got picked up for the Naval Academy, served 4 years as an officer in various roles including 3 deployments, and am now at MIT finishing up a Mechanical Engineering degree……all on the Navy's dime. When I complete my obligated service, I will have almost 13 years in the Navy (Academy time doesn't count)

    If I get out, it will be for stability for my kids and so that my wife can re-start her career. The sacrifices facing military families are often overlooked. Sure, there are great benefits and discounts, but I would give them all up to keep my kids in the same school for more than 2 years in a row or for my wife to have the chance at satisfying career.

    I love what I do in the Navy and service to country is important to me, but……..

    As I see veteran's benefits on the chopping block, the decision to get out (for me and others like me) gets easier and easier. In my situation, the Navy loses big time if I get out before 20 or 30 years. They will spend nearly $500K in educational expenses alone re-training someone to fill my shoes, provided they can even keep anyone in after 10 years.

    To make a long story short

    If programs like this go into effect, I predict a loss of confidence in the lawmakers ability to support veterans. This will result in a mass-exodus of military members in 10-15 year window, leaving the military with huge manning short falls in the control grades. If something like this goes into effect, they really need to think about how to manage it, or we will be facing serious issues.

  388. Naval Engineer says:

    If this type of system goes into effect, there will be many people like myself facing a tough decision. I served 3 years enlisted time qualifying as a Reactor Operator, got picked up for the Naval Academy, served 4 years as an officer in various roles including 3 deployments, and am now at MIT finishing up a Mechanical Engineering degree……all on the Navy's dime. When I complete my obligated service, I will have almost 13 years in the Navy (Academy time doesn't count)

  389. Unbelievable. It doesn't make sense to overhaul a system that has been working for years. You have men and women sacrificing their lives and families to protect this country and this is how you want to repay them. I think what needs to be "overhauled" is Washington. We put our trust in those we have elected to make the right decisions and it looks like we have put our trust in the wrong people. We hoped for change at the last Presidential Election and so far all we've seen is more of the same – back room politics. All the efforts at cutting the deficit seem to be directed downward – affecting the common man, women, and families. Nothing appears to be directed at those making the decisions. I challenge those in Washington all the way through the Executive Branch to stand-up united and take a pay cut and forego an annual raise before you cut any benefits earned by the Men, Women, and Families who served this Country – Active Duty, National Gaurd, and Reserve. Just so we are clear, I too served in the Military and retired after 21 years of service and this motion is appalling.

  390. If they don't pay retirement until 60, are they planning to allow us both retirement AND Social Security. It is simple, if they want to push it off till 60, THEY ARE LIARS, but we will adapt like we always do. HOWEVER, I want what I have paid into Social Security back! Because as of now you are NOT ALLOWED TO DRAW BOTH! So they will only have to pay retirement for a total of 9 years? How is that fair?

  391. I think I can solve the problem. Let's see there should be a lot of retired snipers. But 2012 is coming soon so we should throw out the rest of the garbage we just missed instead. How about going and getting the billions COMMIEOBAMMIE gave to Wall Street tychoons which they put in their pockets. Did my 20 but when Korea blows up in our face and Congress wants to send forces there the old anti-Vietnam slogan should return. Hell no we won't go!!! Just keep F**king with the military retirement and the only way you will get a military is when invaders hit US soil!!

  392. Pissed off says:

    You know for a bunch of highly paid, uneducated assholes in DC, you just proved you are idiots. You keep pushing and you will find a force of highly trained revolutionist foce knocking at your door. I suppose in your extensive, expensive college education, you may have forgot to stay awake in class when they taught you about the Revoluation War of 1776. Washington is turning into the "Redcoats". I foresee a VERY SERIOUS poblem. I served 15 years to get fucked by the very country I was tasked to protect. No wonder no other countries like us. We can help everyone else but lets fuck our own people. Good plan. Hell you got a dumb fuck running this country who NEVER once picked up a rifle and propably does not even kno which end to point at the enemy.

  393. I would not go as far as age 60 maybe age 55. I also believe that Congress should get rid of pay for non combat related injuries too many service people retire on a check from the VA on non combat disabilities. Let's make sure the REAL heroes "those that suffered in action' are not only compensated monetarily but taken care of at our VA hospitals without the waiting lines of these pansies that abuse the system with false or drummed up disabilities!

  394. ! thing all veterans can do is ensure that they vote for only those that have served. Having a commander in chief that has never served is a tragedy! We should be cutting costs in all areas except the veterans and the elderly, instead those are the 2 groups that they always cut. VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS

  395. Centurion6 says:

    I believe it was one of the Caesars that said "Always pay your Soldiers first". Congress would be wise to heed this time tested advice

  396. Johnny Auto757 says:

    How many congressmen and senators have only served a couple of terms get their pay and benefits increased each year? If we want to save money, we should start by totally eliminating retirement pay and benefits for congressmen and senators who served less than 20 years. Those who have served more than 20 years should receive retirement pay as an E-6 over 20, and their benefits should be TRICARE Prime and Delta Dental, and see how they like it!

  397. The reason they want to go to a new system is because the average military retiree doesn't live much past 60. When I enlisted in the Navy in 1966 the average retiree only lived about five years after he retired. We do a little better now because our smoking, drinking and other bad habits have improved and we have better medical treatments for cancer, heart disease, diabetes and all the other things that used to kill us off early. But, the fact that a career in the military ages people more than the average civilian career is still a fact. The reason they don't want us drawing any retirement until we are older is that they are betting we won't live long enough to draw much of it. That's why they changed it to the high 36 month system after 1980, because they were seeing that guys retiring weren't dying after five years and they were drawing retirement for 15, 20 or more years. Now, guys are living a lot longer and a retiree might live for 25, 35 or longer and that means it costs the government a lot more to keep paying us.

  398. Why even get upset with the "idiots" on this post who are willing to be "bent over the rail" on this. We all just better put on our "velcro BDU's" and get ready to be bent over the rail ourselves guys cause it's coming hard and fast like an A-10!!! I served 24 years and I'm not happy with what's coming down the pike but you all know there isn't a DAMN thing WE can do about it!!!

    • There's a lot you can do about it. Start voting out the incumbents and start being politically active, instead of just complaining on blogs like this where it falls on deaf ears.

  399. 20 years in the AF during the Vietnam era. What they forget today is we served our country, but lived on about half of what we could have made doing the same job as a civilian. I would hate to see them do anything that puts the screws to our servicemen…

  400. johnnyAuto757 says:

    The cynical side of me thinks that this is all by design of the One Worlders to demoralize the members of our armed forces to the point that nobody wants to serve. Hopefully, we'll have a new president in 2012, and a congress that has the nuts to turn back and un-do this crazy nonsense.
    Call AND write your congressman and senator, and VOTE in 2012!!!

  401. While I can understand the problem, I don't like the idea of them going to a system that is similar to the 401K system that most civiliazns have. If they are going to do that, then they need to raise pay to the levels of what civilians make. People who contribute to a 401K in the civilian market have a lot more money to invest than military peopl and if they want to change our system to one like the civilians have then they need to pay us like civilians.

  402. Require all people who run for political office to have at least FOUR years active military service AND start them off at military pay and retirement then give them the same other benefits and require them to serve One month a year on active per year some where away from family and friends the see if they want to take away more from the military. Then allow them to run for office.

  403. Irish 69-90 says:

    I totatlly agree we served, we earned it these yahoos in wash want us to suffer even more now especially send home pelosi and reid

  404. Sandy Phillips says:

    We post here preaching to the choir. Let every member of congress know how you feel (as we all know, "Congress" is both houses). THEN, most importantly, get letters in your local papers, both back home and where you are stationed. Tell friends and relatives to write. I'm a Vet, a retiree, a soldier, and I vote – but we can't do this alone. There are a whole lot of Civilians out there who don't understand, either, and it sounds like a good idea to them. We've got to get the word out to them, too. Get them to stand up for us.

  405. Anyone serving 20 years plus in the military deserves everything that they were promised when the enlisted. Leave it up to the bought and paid for politicians in Washington to even screw this up.

  406. You guys are all preaching to the choir. Get to the Congress and Senate websites and start complaining to your Senators and Congressmen Arguing among ourselves does nothing. Tell your representatives how you feel, cal and E-mail them.

    • Just did it a second time today. E-mailed my rep from the Richmond area and then also my reps to the VA Beach area I am moving to in the next week or two. Just like you said, don't get mad, get even. It's easy for some to complain yet do nothing about it.

    • Stephen Gagin says:

      You make a very good point. We should all be engaging our representatives when ever we can. Let's not allow the new Republican majority in the house pull the same stunt they pulled on us in '94. Remember the "contract with America"? No sooner did the Repubs get into power, they started trying to "out democrat" the Democrats.

  407. lost our free medical care, what else. 1951 – 1973 raub

  408. I have 19 years active duty, but can see the writing on the wall. Our gov is completely broke and literally living off of a credit card. We can either accept the fact that immediate cuts to ALL federal programs are necessary for us to have the slightest chance of avoiding a complete financial collapse, or we can simply keep racking up the debt and wait for our country's inevitable financial collapse. Either way, we can all kiss our gov bennies goodbye. Complain all you want, but it WILL happen.

  409. If the government wants to reduce debt. Why not lessen the retirement pay for our elected officials. They draw full pay after serving term in office. while we have to serve 20 years or more for fifty percent.

  410. The chicken hawk right wingers are usually the ones who wrap themselves in the flag and refuse to vote for the bills that support vets. I'm against messing with the current retirement system, as I'm also against screwing with the current S.S. System. That said, reform the wasteful portion of the DOD budget, which is uneccessary wars and wasteful weapons system development that never come to fruition. What I don't appreciate is the "I got mine" hypocrisy, i.e. Don't touch my stuff, (Social Security medicare) but feel free to hit the stuff that doesn't concern me. Fact is, our welfare state is much more restrictive than many european countries, and it is efficient. SS is administered with 1% of GDP. Close corporate tax loopholes, raise capital gains tax, and then lets evaluate what needs to be cut.

  411. 28 year vet says:

    So what the difference between the proposed new retirement plan and the existing reservists plan? We will have a military of only reservists. Why stay active when I can be a reservist, collect not exact but similar retirement plan while getting a second retirement with a civilain or govt job!

  412. John J. Ward says:

    Cost cutting measures whether targeted to the Military or Civilian population are always viewed as negative ,and as well they should be. Our structure of paying well deserved benifits to those who served are at the very least complicated,.As I can only speak for myself I would not welcome any cost cutting measures enacted on current or near- retirees. Any possible legistration concerning changes to the way Military Retirement/Pay as promulgated (and it lookes like it will be discussed) needs to be as fair and equatable so as to maintain the All Volunteer Force which is vital to our National Defense as well as to our Allies..

  413. Sounds like the commies who have inflitrated our government are on track with bringing down what makes our country so great, the military!!

  414. Yeah everyone but the deadbeats in DC that get full pay for life after only doing a six year term on the beltway. When They take a cut in their retirement pay so will I.